Tim Harford The Undercover Economist: How to burst your political filter bubble

[PeterMP]

http://timharford.com/2018/10/how-to-burst-your-political-filter-bubble/

 

"They all seem a cinch compared with the challenge of our age: think less tribally. Try meeting people who disagree with you. Try to understand both sides of the argument. Most of us instinctively feel that this is desirable. Each of us has something to learn from others. And even if we do not, even if the other side of the argument is utterly wrong, how are we to persuade them if we are not on speaking terms? And yet bursting our own bubbles is infuriatingly hard."

 

"But the Twitter bot’s efforts at fostering understanding backfired. Being exposed to opposing views on Twitter pushed people away from the centre ground. “Republicans who followed a liberal Twitter bot became substantially more conservative post treatment,” write the researchers. Democrats moved further left — although their moves were not as large nor as statistically reliable."

 

It might be nice to have a general thread about biases and thing that affect our bias and responses to information. 

 

Simply being exposed to different information doesn't help change anybody.  Telling somebody they are wrong and even why is not likely going to change that person's opinion.  And apparently if the person that you are talking to is conservative, it is even more likely to entrench them in their conservative views.

 

(I can appreciate it.  These days listening to Rush Limbaugh just makes me angry.)

[Destino]

I believe this.  If I spend any significant amount of time paying attention to hard left groups, especially protest groups, I recoil in horror.  If I read what internet republicans are saying am immediately sent running back towards the left. 

 

Maybe the lesson here might be that the wrong people have the loudest voices. At least I hope that's the case because if most republicans and democrats really are represented by what you'd find on twitter... it might be time to move. 

[grego]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

 

Simply being exposed to different information doesn't help change anybody.  Telling somebody they are wrong and even why is not likely going to change that person's opinion.  And apparently if the person that you are talking to is conservative, it is even more likely to entrench them in their conservative views.

 

(I can appreciate it.  These days listening to Rush Limbaugh just makes me angry.)

 

 

this is something i've been reading about quite a bit lately- why conservatives and liberals have more trouble than ever communicating. jonathan haidts work on 'the moral roots of republicans and democrats' is really interesting to me. i'll try to post some of his thoughts later when i have a few minutes. iirc, he talks about how 'reasoning' with someone in a political discussion using facts doesnt work and why that is. 

 

what youre talking about above sounds like the backfire effect, where people tend to double down when confronted with evidence that goes against their beliefs rather than reevaluate their beliefs and adjust them- a kind of confirmation bias. thats similar to how people change when talking only to people that think like they do, or their ' tribes'-  they become more radical in their politics. one more reason why political discourse with a diverse group is so critical. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, PeterMP said:

Try meeting people who disagree with you. Try to understand both sides of the argument. Most of us instinctively feel that this is desirable. Each of us has something to learn from others.

Hell, I talk to you people on here more than anyone else.  And I am rather conservative here on a rather liberal forum.  I've been here for quite a while.  I do know some of my views have evolved over time.  Is it you all or just me getting older?  Or just every day to day experience?  Who knows..........

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, grego said:

what youre talking about above sounds like the backfire effect, where people tend to double down when confronted with evidence that goes against their beliefs rather than reevaluate their beliefs and adjust them- a kind of confirmation bias. thats similar to how people change when talking only to people that think like they do, or their ' tribes'-  they become more radical in their politics. one more reason why political discourse with a diverse group is so critical. 

 

Yes, that's almost certainly part of it.

[Springfield]

I don’t tell people who hold different political beliefs than me that they’re wrong, I TREAT them like it.  I treat them like the dirty godless creatures that they are.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Hell, I talk to you people on here more than anyone else.  And I am rather conservative here on a rather liberal forum.  I've been here for quite a while.  I do know some of my views have evolved over time.  Is it you all or just me getting older?  Or just every day to day experience?  Who knows..........

 

I find the most informative conversations to be ones with smart people that see things differently. 

 

When the person isn’t smart I find that their political persuasion is irrelevant. We might support the same policy but our reasons and understanding is very different. 

[Springfield]

Truly smart people are those that are generally open to other people’s ideologies and can have constructive conversations about differing opinions.

[grego]

 

 

this is a ted talk, jonathan haidt- 'the moral roots of liberals and conservatives'.haidt explores the moral psychology of political thinkers, why people think the way they do and how, if we understand how others think, we can learn to communicate more effectively.(it should be required listening as part of joining ES. only half kidding)

[Bang]

Look, i KNOW i said your wife is a fat whore, but if you listen, what i am REALLY saying is that your WIFE is a FAT WHORE.

Perhaps you should try to be more civil, and open your mind to opposing views.

 

 

There are times this is wise, especially when all we're talking about are esoteric philosophies and not policies that are extremely damaging, and not when it's so obvious that no matter HOW it is said, you're still calling my wife a fat whore.

I'v been listening for a long time. I've heard it go progressively worse. 

Right now, if a person is still a member of the Republican party, then i think it is safe to assume they are supportive of all their policies. And the policies are insane, and so thus, they are also insane.

So while they may want to cry and call me intolerant, I don't really care. I've been tolerant while i've watched what the poison propaganda has done.  One day their masters will tell them to start shooting. They've laid the groundwork. The continual lies by the president are designed to foster hate and division.  
Trump is a fascist who has sold us out. If you support him, so have you.

And while some of you will roll your eyes.. understand i never got death threats at work until these people started to attack our constitution.

Now i get them every other day or so.

So for me it's very much more real tan the word-smithing and bull**** arguments of people with 'opposing views"..   right now my opposing view is "i'm going to kill you before you can shoot me if i can at all help it, and i am forced to watch for you now."

 

**** your opposing views. I've heard it and i have decided ****. Your. Opposing. Views. I view them as a threat. A real one. Not some phony bull****. 

Fascist views should die along with the fascist surrounding them.

 

~Bang

[Llevron]

I have yet to become mature enough to give credit to people who may have a point, or may be intelligent....but at the same time  support people who are in my view racist, or show any other kind of immorality and make that a center of their beliefs. I hope I described that clearly. 

 

It's the problem I have with Republicans today. I dont know how to fix that. I know it's a problem. 

 

It's like that black guy who has converted hundreds of KKK members. I dont know if I have the strength to do that and I think I should if I could walk the path I preach. But I know I cant right now. 

 

The closest I got was that time I agreed with Kilmer and Zonny and they sent me that shirt and I wore it to my cousins house and they kicked me out cause I agreed with them but on the way home I was assaulted by some police officers but halfway through they noticed the shirt and they let me live so Zonny became my best man and Kilmer gave me away and we lived happily ever after. 

 

Parts of that may not have happened in that order or not at all. 

[tshile]

Wait

what did the shirt say?

 

[Kosher Ham]

This thread is already entertaining. 

 

The bubble is the one that you decide to put yourself in and keep yourself in. 

Build a broad social base, continue to learn and teach, be receptive to opposing views. 

Then there is no bubble. Just a window...open the window, let the air in, take a breath. 

 

Now grow. 

[Bang]

Yeah, sounds great.

As if no one ever stuck their head out the window.

Comes a time when it becomes nothing but a dream to hope the 'views' we hear being screamed through the window are just esoteric ideas. Problem is many of these ideas are not just thoughts, have never been just thoughts, that these are philosophies of division and worse,  and are in reality wrecking this country, which is quite probably being torn apart as a result of long term propaganda designed to do exactly what we are heading for, and quite possibly aided by the compromised president of the united states and the entirety of his political party... working hand in hand with an enemy that has been trying to get us to do exactly what we're doing for decades upon decades.

 

But sure, let's bring an acoustic guitar and get all cuddly over a fair exchange of ideas about how we can better humanity by oppressing most of it.

 

Oh, what's that? They're not and never have been interested in hearing my ideas? 

Oh. well, i guess we should have seen that coming.

 

~Bang

 

[Llevron]

Feel like this would be a good time to bring up kneeling for the anthem.