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SOW| Native Americans Speaking Out In Support of Redskins Name


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#1 rd421

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:48 PM

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The Washington Redskins have been under tremendous scrutiny over the last couple of months in regard to what some consider an “offensive” and “racist” name. While the group of complainants only make up 9% of the Native American population (according to the latest poll), many have wondered why the other 91% have been left unspoken.

It’s easy to assume the silence means indifference to the name, but you have to consider the repercussions of speaking out against the popular opinion of the Native American Media. Such punishments can range from the removal from the tribe, as well as professions ruined.

With the possible backlash from the powers that be it’s easy to understand why most Native American’s do not speak out, as they are in fear of their reputation, jobs, or even their life. On reservations it is their law, not the law the general public is used to.

Kevin, whose last name we cannot use wrote us a lengthy email on exactly this after seeing Ray’s appearance on “Outside the Lines” defending the Redskins name. He explains why those who support the Washington Redskins, as well as other teams with Native American connections are kept in silence.

“We quietly support you for the following main reasons, which are briefly included below -

The obsession with protesting mascots and names like Redskins is an obsession of white Indians. They protest mascots, children dressing up on Halloween and other silly things because it makes them feel Indian. It lets them scream racism. They know no other way of feeling Indian. They are totally disconnected from the real issues that affect mainstream Indians on reservations. They are fully Americanized. They have lost their language, culture, religion and even their skin color.

Unfortunately the white Indians have the loudest voices. If we go against them, they hurt us in our careers and lives because they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything. They have the money and the power. We have the Indian-ness.

Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues to worry about. Like diabetes, how we get our next meal, crime on reservations, lack of electricity, lack of toilets, lack of running water, no heat when there’s snow outside, getting a relative to a dialysis clinic when there is no transport, finding a job when there’s near 100% unemployment, near 100% consideration of suicide among our youth, alcoholism, drug abuse, elder abuse, spouse abuse, land loss, culture loss, language loss, etc. Mascots are a NON-ISSUE to us.

The media should be screaming about the real issues. Instead their main focus is on mascots. The focus on mascots and meaningless debates about redskins detract attention from the REAL issues facing brown Indians.

When these white Indians offend sports fans or insult a little child who loves Indians and puts on feathers, they alienate the rest of America against brown Indians. Note that the white Indians blend in beautifully into the white society. No one even realizes they are Indian. But when an angered sports fan who is upset about losing his mascot screams “**** you sand ******” or throws a beer can at us from a passing car screaming “MOTHER******, GO BACK TO YOUR ****ING RESERVATION!!” they scream such obscenities at my father, my cousin, my brother and my family members who look Indian."

Continue Reading Here

Edited by rd421, 01 March 2013 - 02:50 PM.


#2 brettstr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:53 PM

http://sonofwashingt...cf80c4834_b.jpg


The Washington Redskins have been under tremendous scrutiny over the last couple of months in regard to what some consider an “offensive” and “racist” name. While the group of complainants only make up 9% of the Native American population (according to the latest poll), many have wondered why the other 91% have been left unspoken.

It’s easy to assume the silence means indifference to the name, but you have to consider the repercussions of speaking out against the popular opinion of the Native American Media. Such punishments can range from the removal from the tribe, as well as professions ruined.

With the possible backlash from the powers that be it’s easy to understand why most Native American’s do not speak out, as they are in fear of their reputation, jobs, or even their life. On reservations it is their law, not the law the general public is used to.

Kevin, whose last name we cannot use wrote us a lengthy email on exactly this after seeing Ray’s appearance on “Outside the Lines” defending the Redskins name. He explains why those who support the Washington Redskins, as well as other teams with Native American connections are kept in silence.

“We quietly support you for the following main reasons, which are briefly included below -

The obsession with protesting mascots and names like Redskins is an obsession of white Indians. They protest mascots, children dressing up on Halloween and other silly things because it makes them feel Indian. It lets them scream racism. They know no other way of feeling Indian. They are totally disconnected from the real issues that affect mainstream Indians on reservations. They are fully Americanized. They have lost their language, culture, religion and even their skin color.

Unfortunately the white Indians have the loudest voices. If we go against them, they hurt us in our careers and lives because they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything. They have the money and the power. We have the Indian-ness.

Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues to worry about. Like diabetes, how we get our next meal, crime on reservations, lack of electricity, lack of toilets, lack of running water, no heat when there’s snow outside, getting a relative to a dialysis clinic when there is no transport, finding a job when there’s near 100% unemployment, near 100% consideration of suicide among our youth, alcoholism, drug abuse, elder abuse, spouse abuse, land loss, culture loss, language loss, etc. Mascots are a NON-ISSUE to us.

The media should be screaming about the real issues. Instead their main focus is on mascots. The focus on mascots and meaningless debates about redskins detract attention from the REAL issues facing brown Indians.

When these white Indians offend sports fans or insult a little child who loves Indians and puts on feathers, they alienate the rest of America against brown Indians. Note that the white Indians blend in beautifully into the white society. No one even realizes they are Indian. But when an angered sports fan who is upset about losing his mascot screams “**** you sand ******” or throws a beer can at us from a passing car screaming “MOTHER******, GO BACK TO YOUR ****ING RESERVATION!!” they scream such obscenities at my father, my cousin, my brother and my family members who look Indian."

Continue Reading Here


great read. All have become crazy withe the topic. Move on

---------------

ES Staff appended edit:

11. Please do not use the “Quote” feature to quote images, large blocks of text or embedded YouTube videos.

It wastes space and unnecessarily extends and clutters threads.

Edited by Mark The Homer, 01 March 2013 - 09:31 PM.


#3 PortisBetts

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:59 PM

This is a fantastic article that sheds a lot of light on issues that I and I am sure many of us did not truly understand. PC needs to stop somewhere. Especially when it is not offensive to the tribes that people claim are offended. ESPECIALLY when it is done in an admiral way with a noble mascot.

#4 thebluefood

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:15 PM

Fascinating article. I'm glad Kevin brought up the actual plight of modern American Indians as a contrast to this genuinely silly and petty argument over the nickname.

My old church in Greenville did some mission work at a reservation in Oklahoma and from what I've heard, the conditions are comparable to third world nations. That is deplorable. That's the real struggle American Indians have to deal with in this country.

Edited by thebluefood, 01 March 2013 - 03:15 PM.


#5 Truant

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:16 PM

Sometimes I wonder if people are actually offended or if they wonder, "can/should I be offended?"

I'm a minority and numerous times people around me will walk on eggshells if there is a cultural or religious joke thrown my way in good nature. Sometimes people are offended for me. So much so that I need to calm THEM down.

I see a lot of media members seemingly taking this last path. They are taking the high road by erring with caution and going on the record of being politically correct. I get it... but it's irritating at times when someone makes it an agenda and is more offended than the people who are supposedly being slighted. It's a name of a team, not a punchline or a slander against ourselves.

Edit: and with all the grief Snyder and the team get over the name, they'd make incredible amounts of cash by changing the name. Replacement hats, shirts, jerseys, mugs, flags, posters, etc. Not saying everyone would upgrade, but certainly far more merchandise would move. They are trying to preserve tradition. It'd be easy to fold at the first sign of pressure and get a nice, fat check for one's troubles.

Edited by Truant, 01 March 2013 - 03:20 PM.


#6 Mad Mike

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

Great read but I didn't take it as a defense of the Redskins name (although it is so a degree) as much as prioritizing what is important to real Native Americans. I hope that what people remember is the real problems Native Americans face so that those who can, will help to solve them. I'm as big a Redskins fan as they come but it would be a real sin if the only thing people remember about this article is that the guy doesn't have a problem with our team name.

---------- Post added March-1st-2013 at 08:24 PM ----------

Fascinating article. I'm glad Kevin brought up the actual plight of modern American Indians as a contrast to this genuinely silly and petty argument over the nickname.

My old church in Greenville did some mission work at a reservation in Oklahoma and from what I've heard, the conditions are comparable to third world nations. That is deplorable. That's the real struggle American Indians have to deal with in this country.


We don't seem to agree on much but I'm glad someone else gets the important issue raised by the article. :cheers:

#7 milapnow

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:27 PM

In addition to it being right and good, Snyder would be wise to donate time and money to supporting Native American/Indian causes such as fighting diabetes, gambling or alcohol addiction, poverty, etc.

#8 pjfootballer

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:29 PM

I have a good friend who has a German last name, his lineage comes from Germany and England, he's whiter/paler and blonder than I am, yet he always puts in that he's 1/16th Cherokee. I told him 1/16th doesn't count and I'm sure somewhere along the line I can find lineage in other backgrounds just from marriages and divorces. But I just say I'm of Irish/English decent even though I can add in some German and possibly Nordic somewhere, but it's not worth it. I tell my friend he's an idiot and he's not Native American.

#9 Tweedr01

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:29 PM

In addition to it being right and good, Snyder would be wise to donate time and money to supporting Native American/Indian causes such as fighting diabetes, gambling or alcohol addiction, poverty, etc.


That is something I can get on board with!

#10 pjfootballer

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:31 PM

Oh and someone please forward this to all the media who had previously posted articles in the past against our name.

#11 DCchillin89

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:31 PM

Reliance on a poll like that is dangerous IMO. Any sociologist would tell you that. There's simply no way to sufficiently quantify who feels the offensiveness of the word.

And now Confirmation of this query:

The poll used in the article, cited as the "latest poll" is a phone survey from 2003-2004, with 700+ Native Americans from different parts of the country participating.

The poll is 10 years old. It has 700+ subjects involved. There are 1.5 million Native Americans living in the US today. Doesn't add up.

I'm a sociology major and if I handed this article in (a bunk poll and an interview with one guy) and tried to pass it off as an argument that the name isn't racist, I'd get laughed at and promptly failed.

Edited by DCchillin89, 01 March 2013 - 03:51 PM.


#12 No_Pressure

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:35 PM

As I've posted before, this is the general prevailing attitude of at least 5 or so Navajo Indians I was acquainted with while living in Flagstaff, AZ. Three of them were Redskins fans while the others told me the name is such a non-issue it isn't funny. These were young men who were attending college but who had grown up in poverty on the reservation. They said a very small percentage of Native Americans were actually disturbed by the Redskins name, and that those Indians were not real Indians.

Others I suppose feel offense for people they assume should be offended, and if those people don't feel offended they are patronized as not understanding why exactly they should be offended.

I have a good friend who has a German last name, his lineage comes from Germany and England, he's whiter/paler and blonder than I am, yet he always puts in that he's 1/16th Cherokee. I told him 1/16th doesn't count and I'm sure somewhere along the line I can find lineage in other backgrounds just from marriages and divorces. But I just say I'm of Irish/English decent even though I can add in some German and possibly Nordic somewhere, but it's not worth it. I tell my friend he's an idiot and he's not Native American.



I've always dealt with the reverse: I'm 1/8th Italian, and that 8th determined my last name. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone heard my last name and said "oh, you're Italian huh? You don't really LOOK Italian..." and I have to explain that I'm only 1/8th Italian and I'm actually mostly German. I've certainly encountered those before who are 1/8th or less of some ethnic group and regardless of that fact they have decided to identify with that particular part of their ancestry.

Edited by No_Pressure, 01 March 2013 - 03:39 PM.


#13 Destino

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

The argument can be summed up into four major points.

1 - Native American imagery and mascots are not being used in an offensive manner by the Redskins.
2 - White Indians are doing this and we can't stop them because they control everything. "they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything." They are apparently united against any "brown indian" that doesn't join them in their crusade against native american imagery being used in a manner they deem unacceptable and racist.
3 - "Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues"
4 - Stop telling them not to use Indian mascots and imagery because doing so turns them into racists! Examples:

-angered sports fan who is upset about losing his mascot screams “**** you sand ******” or throws a beer can at us from a passing car screaming “MOTHER******, GO BACK TO YOUR ****ING RESERVATION!!” they scream such obscenities at my father, my cousin, my brother and my family members who look Indian.

- If we twist America’s arm and get America to concede on the trivial items, the country will lose patience with us when we negotiate important A-items.

- That little child who insists on dressing up in a costume and putting on some feathers loves Indians, but when white Indians insult his mom and dad by calling them racists, he grows up to resent those of us who look Indian.

- The vocalizations of these white Indians seem to unite Indian opposition – they find forums and avenues to kindle hatred against Indians and rehash and reiterate negative stereotypes about Indians.


The first argument I can accept as a valid opinion. I happen to agree with it in that I do not think the Redskins mean any offense at all and no one clings to the name because they like or mean to offend anyone. The other three arguments that I took from that article are dubious. The last one is the worst of all.

Show of hands please, how many of you are developing racist feelings against native americans because of this issue?

Edited by Destino, 01 March 2013 - 04:04 PM.


#14 chaos

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:01 PM

Interesting perspective...especially the "we have bigger issues to care about". Sad stuff.

I'd be interested in hearing from other "brown Indians".

Maybe some of you Twitterers (?) should try forwarding this to the big advocates of the name change for a reaction...Wise, Steinberg, Graziano, etc.

#15 DCchillin89

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:04 PM

Interesting perspective...especially the "we have bigger issues to care about". Sad stuff.

I'd be interested in hearing from other "brown Indians".

Maybe some of you Twitterers (?) should try forwarding this to the big advocates of the name change for a reaction...Wise, Steinberg, Graziano, etc.


This article would literally do nothing. Nothing said in this article hasn't already been brought to light, and Destino has exposed its other weaknesses in the argument.

Edited by DCchillin89, 01 March 2013 - 04:07 PM.


#16 FSUSkins24

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:23 PM

This was an incredible read, thank you for sharing with us, and I really hope it gets some serious play time in local/national media.

As a grad student at FSU I never understand those that call for the Seminoles to change their name. There is nothing but respect for the Seminole tribe amongst the University, their sports teams, and their fans. Take a walk through any of the FSU buildings (Moore Athletic Center/Strozier Library to name a couple) and you'll understand the love and admiration. I mean shoot, the Seminole tribe is even on the payroll.

I feel the exact same way about my beloved Redskins. Never once have I seen one of the Redskins faithful degrade the Native American name, and up until recently I didn't even realize that the name "Redskin" was originally coined by Native Americans. Which gives me even more reason to stand by my beloved Redskins.

Also, the whole Brown Indian/White Indian dynamic was pretty interesting. I didn't know that Native Americans self-classified like that.

#17 RFKFedEx

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:28 PM

The thread title is somewhat misleading. The franchise lacks a credible Native voice on our behalf.

#18 Cpt.Chaos47

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:59 PM

It is disgusting that mascots is the issue the media chooses to focus on when it comes to Native Peoples. You know the theft of their land and genocide of their people isn't important. Hopefully the true voice of Native Americans is finally heard and Im sure it will have nothing to do with mascots.

#19 J-bomb

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:00 PM

Imo white Indians sounds like the naacp never focuses on the real issues an always playing the race card to favor there agenda, which is $$.

#20 Destino

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:03 PM

Imo white Indians sounds like the naacp never focuses on the real issues an always playing the race card to favor there agenda, which is $$.


I think it sounds like racists that claim Jews control Hollywood and banks. "Kevin" claims they control everything with an iron fist.

#21 SonnyandSam

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:04 PM

Reliance on a poll like that is dangerous IMO. Any sociologist would tell you that. There's simply no way to sufficiently quantify who feels the offensiveness of the word.

And now Confirmation of this query:

The poll used in the article, cited as the "latest poll" is a phone survey from 2003-2004, with 700+ Native Americans from different parts of the country participating.

The poll is 10 years old. It has 700+ subjects involved. There are 1.5 million Native Americans living in the US today. Doesn't add up.

I'm a sociology major and if I handed this article in (a bunk poll and an interview with one guy) and tried to pass it off as an argument that the name isn't racist, I'd get laughed at and promptly failed.


Dated yes..."bunk poll" ...absolutely not. It was a professionally administered poll by a well respected non profit organization consistent with polling standards to estimate the opinion of Native Americans. Even IF you question the accuracy of polling, when did you ever see a poll showing 90 percent of the people polled agreeing on something? Even if you want to suggest a larger margin of error, it still shows a huge percentage of Native Americans who have no issues with the word "Redskins".

Oh, and just a year or two before that poll was a poll done by Sports Illustrated with about 80% of Native Americans having no problem with the word "Redskins". Pretty confirmatory that a very large percentage of the Native American population has other priorities and does not consider Redskins disparaging.

And the poll is just one part of the argument that "Redskins" is not a racist word. Consider:

  • Ives Goddard, a distinguished American Indian linguist with the Smithsonian Institution concluded that the word was first used by American Indian chiefs describing themselves and was never used to disparage Native Americans
  • A linguist at Duke (forget his name now) concluded the same
  • No linguist has found any proof that "Redskins" has been used disparaging or that it allegedly means "bloody scalp" [which is an internet myth]
  • Red Mesa High School chose "Redskins" as their mascot/logo. It is on a Navajo Indian Reservation in AZ with 100 % Native American students.
  • If "Redskins" was such a racist word, why was the first coach and several players on the team American Indian? Why would they play for such a team?
  • Opponents to the "Redskins" name say it is racist yet they can point to no proof. They just say "it is". The best they have is some American dictionaries that say it is offensive; but no information about why or how it became an offensive word. The "N word" is heavily documented in video, news media and verbal history. Yet nothing for "Redskins" being racist. Why?

Do I believe some Native Americans are offended by the word? Sure. I think many of them have no clue about the history of the word and have been heavily influenced by a liberal media that keeps bringing it up as a racist word.

And I think there is a very reasonable argument to make that a Native American does not like or want sports teams to be using Native American Imagery. I can accept that argument. But there appears to be a great deal of disagreement among American Indians about that position.

I strongly object to the characterization of "Redskins" as being racist or disparaging because the factual history simply does not support such an argument.

Trust me....My paper would get an "A" and UnWise Mike's paper would at best get a "D" before a fair and impartial teacher. Facts are on our side.

Hail! :logo:

Edited by SonnyandSam, 01 March 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#22 Destino

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:11 PM

Question. If the word was originally used by native americans does that preclude it from being used differently by others? I ask because I see that argument made all the time and it seems irrelevant to me. The strongest argument is asking for proof that the name is indeed racist. That point doesn't seem to be resolved one way or another, and those wanting a name change would have to win that point first.

#23 repo_4

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

I have said on here before that my grandmother was Native American. However, I do not really claim to be. I tell people that I have close heritage but dont run around telling everyone Im "Indian". I am white, was raised white and know nothing of that culture (very sad now that I am older and she is gone). We watched Redskins games every Sunday growing up and she never had an issue with the name, nobody did.

All of the complaints and hurt feelings come from people, I believe, with nothing better to do. It is a "cause" for them. The article is spot on that so much energy is wasted on such an insignificant issue when there are REAL problems on reservations and among native people. I just wish people would drop this crap and focus on something that could actually be a positive influence on and do some good for Native American lives.

#24 Phat Hog

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:32 PM

"The media should be screaming about the real issues" - best line in the story!

#25 jnhay

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

The argument can be summed up into four major points.

1 - Native American imagery and mascots are not being used in an offensive manner by the Redskins.
2 - White Indians are doing this and we can't stop them because they control everything. "they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything." They are apparently united against any "brown indian" that doesn't join them in their crusade against native american imagery being used in a manner they deem unacceptable and racist.
3 - "Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues"
4 - Stop telling them not to use Indian mascots and imagery because doing so turns them into racists! Examples:


The first argument I can accept as a valid opinion. I happen to agree with it in that I do not think the Redskins mean any offense at all and no one clings to the name because they like or mean to offend anyone. The other three arguments that I took from that article are dubious. The last one is the worst of all.

Show of hands please, how many of you are developing racist feelings against native americans because of this issue?

Well, obviously non Indians will able to use those arguments very successfully. But if that's the prevailing opinion (which I'm not saying it is) in the Native American community, you can't argue against it.

#26 Tarpon75

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:46 PM

In addition to it being right and good, Snyder would be wise to donate time and money to supporting Native American/Indian causes such as fighting diabetes, gambling or alcohol addiction, poverty, etc.

Very good thought,how about the Redskins as a whole doing something,including fans? Maybe even an awareness and fund raising day at the stadium.I know that I would be willing to be involeved and I believe most fans would do the same.

#27 DC9

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:51 PM

In addition to it being right and good, Snyder would be wise to donate time and money to supporting Native American/Indian causes such as fighting diabetes, gambling or alcohol addiction, poverty, etc.


Absolutely, my first take away from this article is "where can I help out with this?"

Very good article Ray and thank you for sharing with us Kevin.

#28 Guest_Spearfeather_*

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:49 PM

-------
Rumour has it, that Paul Lukas smashed his laptop when he read this article.






" Kevin " makes some great points ( along with SonnyandSam ) on what a " non - issue " this is to Native Americans, and the origins of the use of the word.

I wonder what the reaction in the media would be, if a representative from a local tribe came out to the stadium and made a short speech at halftime, endorsing the team name.


Hail to the Redskins

Edited by Spearfeather, 02 March 2013 - 07:33 PM.


#29 grego

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:21 PM

Reliance on a poll like that is dangerous IMO. Any sociologist would tell you that. There's simply no way to sufficiently quantify who feels the offensiveness of the word.

And now Confirmation of this query:

The poll used in the article, cited as the "latest poll" is a phone survey from 2003-2004, with 700+ Native Americans from different parts of the country participating.

The poll is 10 years old. It has 700+ subjects involved. There are 1.5 million Native Americans living in the US today. Doesn't add up.

I'm a sociology major and if I handed this article in (a bunk poll and an interview with one guy) and tried to pass it off as an argument that the name isn't racist, I'd get laughed at and promptly failed.



whats frustrating to me is the ignorance surrounding this issue, not the least of which is you being a member mere since 2006 and just now taking issue with this poll, which has been mentioned and scrutinized to death on this board every time this ridiculous issue is raised.

#30 Xero21

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:44 PM

I have to say, I'm not particularly a fan of this article. I don't really have a preference about the name, if it stays I'm fine, if it goes I'm fine. But some of this stuff kind of irks me a little bit. "Brown indians on reservations have more important issues to worry about"? I understand what he was trying to say there, but it comes across as fairly racist in its own right.

And to be honest, it doesn't really sound like this guy Kevin actually "supports" the Redskins name. Instead it just sounds like he wants everyone who feels offended by it to sit down and shut up because making a fuss about it might cause people to feel negatively towards Native Americans. But fear of repercussion is absolutely NOT a good reason to stop standing against something you believe is wrong.

#31 Sekhmet187

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:09 PM

I have to say, I'm not particularly a fan of this article. I don't really have a preference about the name, if it stays I'm fine, if it goes I'm fine. But some of this stuff kind of irks me a little bit. "Brown indians on reservations have more important issues to worry about"? I understand what he was trying to say there, but it comes across as fairly racist in its own right.

And to be honest, it doesn't really sound like this guy Kevin actually "supports" the Redskins name. Instead it just sounds like he wants everyone who feels offended by it to sit down and shut up because making a fuss about it might cause people to feel negatively towards Native Americans. But fear of repercussion is absolutely NOT a good reason to stop standing against something you believe is wrong.



I honestly can't possibly disagree with you more. It sounds like Kevin believes that a majority of the Natives who are speaking out (as well as all the other people who have voiced their opinions on the matter) are more than happy to spend time, money and effort in campaigns to get rid of mascots, but do nothing to actually help people on reservations. In fact, if you read into his statements, the resentment IMO comes from that very fact. Some of the hardships in reservations could be avoided if all these people screaming for the name to be changed instead donated $1 to a reservation or urged their congressman to add funding to local reservations, they can do a lot more for their people.

Excuse me if I think its pathetic that people are whining about a name yet aren't giving 1/10th of that effort to actually trying to improve the lives of those natives they believe are being "offended". Maybe I'm just reading into it and projecting my own beliefs onto his statements, but it really comes off like he (and I'm sure many others) believe this is a non-issue and that these "efforts" would be better used with the bigger problems that Natives today face.

But hey, if you're uncomfortable using a name that was originated by Native Americans to begin with, maybe you should let that feeling move you to doing something to help those people instead of make yourself feel better by getting a less "offensive" name to root for.

#32 RFKFedEx

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:06 AM

If anyone is keeping score in 2013, we've been crushed by 15+ national voices over the past two months. We have a couple of local voices supporting us in a team blog and a home town radio station at 106.7.

Did I forget anyone else?


But we can all win this battle if we just keep fighting the media. It will all go away eventually right?

#33 asoccerplayer99

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:44 AM

To those who took away from this that he doesn't necessarily support the name, he just doesn't care, I don't quite agree. There are a few places in the article where he comes off as proud that a child would choose to dress up like an Indian for Halloween. He even refers to such children as his (meaning brown Indians) fan base.

The fact that he calls himself a brown Indian to differentiate from white Indians is fairly telling as well- it's obviously acceptable, common, and unoffensive to him to refer to Indians by their skin color. It's therefore unlikely that seeing a team called the Redskins would do anything but invoke pride in the fact that his people have a fan base. He doesnt see the "red" part, because language like that is normal to him.

And lastly, decrying a poll because it only used 700 participants is a pretty strong indicator that you've never taken a statistics course. Keep in mind, most presidential polls you saw last year used about 1500 participants to estimate (pretty accurately) how 300 million people would vote in November. A poll of 700 people drawn from a population of 1.5 million is not bunk by any means.

#34 SkinsGuy

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 03:53 AM

If anyone is keeping score in 2013, we've been crushed by 15+ national voices over the past two months. We have a couple of local voices supporting us in a team blog and a home town radio station at 106.7.

Did I forget anyone else?


But we can all win this battle if we just keep fighting the media. It will all go away eventually right?




Yes it will... when the offseason is over. :)

#35 SWFLSkins

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:56 PM

http://sonofwashingt...cf80c4834_b.jpg


The Washington Redskins have been under tremendous scrutiny over the last couple of months in regard to what some consider an “offensive” and “racist” name. While the group of complainants only make up 9% of the Native American population (according to the latest poll), many have wondered why the other 91% have been left unspoken.

It’s easy to assume the silence means indifference to the name, but you have to consider the repercussions of speaking out against the popular opinion of the Native American Media. Such punishments can range from the removal from the tribe, as well as professions ruined.


Nice to see you back rd, also great write up. This should make Mark Maske look on with bewilderment, as in so that is how is done.

#36 DeadExField

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:20 PM

Edit: and with all the grief Snyder and the team get over the name, they'd make incredible amounts of cash by changing the name. Replacement hats, shirts, jerseys, mugs, flags, posters, etc. Not saying everyone would upgrade, but certainly far more merchandise would move. They are trying to preserve tradition. It'd be easy to fold at the first sign of pressure and get a nice, fat check for one's troubles.


On the contrary, branding and corporate identity are incredibly expensive to replace, and can take years to build. Not to say it can't be done, but it takes a lot of effort and there's no and there's no guarantee that the new branding would be successful with an old audience.

Edited by DeadExField, 02 March 2013 - 02:21 PM.


#37 HighOnHendrix

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

In addition to it being right and good, Snyder would be wise to donate time and money to supporting Native American/Indian causes such as fighting diabetes, gambling or alcohol addiction, poverty, etc.


I agree it would go a long way. The Chicago Blackhawks have done similar outreaches and it has worked out well for them and the tribes they've partnered with.

The franchise lacks a credible Native voice on our behalf.


Good point.

#38 DCchillin89

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:32 PM

And lastly, decrying a poll because it only used 700 participants is a pretty strong indicator that you've never taken a statistics course. Keep in mind, most presidential polls you saw last year used about 1500 participants to estimate (pretty accurately) how 300 million people would vote in November. A poll of 700 people drawn from a population of 1.5 million is not bunk by any means.


It was done 10(!) years ago. My problem is if you're going to make this argument don't base it around that poll if you're trying to convince someone (Wise et al) who already believes it to be a racist name.

Edited by DCchillin89, 02 March 2013 - 02:39 PM.


#39 2cents

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 03:05 PM

It was done 10(!) years ago. My problem is if you're going to make this argument don't base it around that poll if you're trying to convince someone (Wise et al) who already believes it to be a racist name.


It doesn't matter if you made a poll today of every Native American and the results were the same. People like Wise already have made up their mind and facts don't matter. It's not about facts, it's about control. Media feels they have the right to force their opinion on everyone through intimidation.

#40 grego

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

But we can all win this battle if we just keep fighting the media. It will all go away eventually right?


the offseason has something to do with it, but i believe it would (all but) go away when people educate themselves on the facts surrounding the name (and when more voices like this get out), rather than take as gospel the ridiculous "its obviously a slur" mantra.

one high profile, intelligent commentator with some guts to go against the tide can turn this around.

Edited by grego, 02 March 2013 - 03:51 PM.