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    • By thesubmittedone in ES Coverage 5
      So, last week I went through the Falcons game and came up with a few players I thought were intriguing to keep our eyes on as we moved forward through the preseason (with a ton of video to boot, probably too much as that page is/was a bummer to load ); either because they had disappointing outings and we hoped to see improvements from them, or because they looked surprisingly good and we hoped to see the continuation of that level of play. I intentionally focused on players who weren't being talked about a whole lot that week so as to avoid any media redundancy.   
      The disappointments I honed in on against the Falcons were Stephen Paea, Arie Kuandjio and Niles Paul. The impressive performances came from Kendall Reyes, Anthony Lanier (before the rest of the world started noticing him), Carlos Fields, and a special guest appearance from Terrence Garvin.
       
      So how did these guys do against the Jets? And were there any other performances to add to the current list of Extremeskins Coverage intrigue? Let's find out, shall we (with a little less video for the sake of our browsers, mmkay)?     
       

      Stephen Paea, 90
       
      Watching the game in the pressbox at FedEx field, I made it a point to focus in on Paea with my cheap Walmart-purchased binoculars (hey, it was last minute, Spaceman Spiff said I'd probably need them) when he came into the game. From what I saw, he was much improved, however, we must keep in mind that he came in about five minutes into the 2nd half, which means he was playing against lesser talent (and may further indicate a demotion on the depth chart). That being said, last week against the Falcons, he seemed to be moving in slow motion and the only positive he showed really was with his arm strength.
      Against the Jets, however, it was a different story. He moved very well and was a lot more explosive off the snap, to say the least. Let's take a look at a couple of examples.
       
      Here, he's lined up at RDE and you can see him move laterally well while penetrating, putting himself in the perfect position to make the tackle: 

       
      Here, again at RDE, he shows good lateral quickness another time by cutting to his left to find the open lane to the QB, then he puts on the jets to get the sack:

       
      Suffice to say, much better from Stephen Paea. 
       
       

          Arie Kuandjio, 74
       
      Unfortunately, the same can't be said about Arie Kuandjio, who continued to disappoint. Most of his plays aren't necessarily a negative, but they're plays where he can't be considered as having had a positive impact. He often is either out of position or generally not involved when he otherwise should be. But then there's bad as well. 
      Here, at LG, his guy gets underneath and is able to push him back, who then winds up making the tackle on Keith Marshall:

       
      Here, again at LG, is the play I believe John Keim was talking about a couple days ago when he mentioned Kuandjio getting pushed to the ground: 

       
       
      Yeah, let's hope we get a better showing from him against the Bills. 
       
       
        Niles Paul, 84 
          
      Good news for Niles, though, he definitely looked better overall. He did whiff on his first play, but then seemed to make up for it with better blocking in general. Let's take a look.
      Here, lined up at FB and motioned to the left, is the aforementioned whiff:  

       
      Here, lined up on the outside to the left at TE, you'll see him get a solid block on #21 of the Jets and maintain it throughout the play:

       
      Here, lined up as the outside TE on the right side, you'll see him execute a perfect block: 
       

       
      Overall, a better showing from Niles Paul. 
       

      Kendall Reyes, 97
       
      Kendall Reyes continued to impress for the most part. Nothing spectacular, just solid, and I get the sense that we'll be hearing that a lot when it comes to his play throughout the season.
       
      Here, at RDE, he gets some decent pressure on the QB and flushes him outside of the pocket:

       

      Anthony Lanier II, 72 
       
      By far, the most interesting aspect of Lanier's game was how much earlier he was put into the rotation than in the Falcons game, which may indicate he's moving up the depth chart a little. I asked him about it after the game and he seemed to agree. As for his performance, it wasn't as enjoyable to watch as the film against the Falcons (that's not to say he played poorly or regressed, just nothing splashy), but he certainly had his moments. Here are a few examples. 
       
       Here, at RDE, he gets quick interior penetration: 

       
      Here, lined up at LDE, he gets a near sack after beating #64 of the Jets handedly (gotta love the way he lays out there):

       
       
      Here, lined up at RDE, of course is his end of game sack. This one's all about his hustle and awareness: 

       
       
       

         Terrence Garvin, 52
       
      All Garvin has done these past two games is make plays, so I'm putting him here instead of Fields. Last week against the Falcons, he was in on a bunch of plays along with Fields and Lanier, so I didn't give him his own spot and just mentioned his play secondarily. I don't know if it's the weaker competition or not, but he's really impressive out there. Let's take a look at some of the plays he made against the Jets. 
       
      Here, lined up on the right side at ILB, you have to love his back pedal and then quick reaction to break up the pass: 

       
      Here, again lined up on the right side at ILB, he shows his speed as he slices his way through to apply quick pressure on the QB, causing the incompletion: 

       
      He was also in on a fumble recovery (right place, right time, so no need for a video really), but it just shows his hustle. He's really flying around out there and is fun to watch. 
       
      Well, that does it for now. We'll see how these guys look on Friday against the Bills as well as their spots in the rotation. Will they improve, stay the same or regress? Will we see them higher on the depth chart, the same, or lower? I might do a part 2 of this if I have the time and add some others to the list. Hope you all enjoyed it, see you around on the board!

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rd421

SOW| Native Americans Speaking Out In Support of Redskins Name

294 posts in this topic

6994064984_bcf80c4834_b.jpg

The Washington Redskins have been under tremendous scrutiny over the last couple of months in regard to what some consider an “offensive” and “racist” name. While the group of complainants only make up 9% of the Native American population (according to the latest poll), many have wondered why the other 91% have been left unspoken.

It’s easy to assume the silence means indifference to the name, but you have to consider the repercussions of speaking out against the popular opinion of the Native American Media. Such punishments can range from the removal from the tribe, as well as professions ruined.

With the possible backlash from the powers that be it’s easy to understand why most Native American’s do not speak out, as they are in fear of their reputation, jobs, or even their life. On reservations it is their law, not the law the general public is used to.

Kevin, whose last name we cannot use wrote us a lengthy email on exactly this after seeing Ray’s appearance on “Outside the Lines” defending the Redskins name. He explains why those who support the Washington Redskins, as well as other teams with Native American connections are kept in silence.

“We quietly support you for the following main reasons, which are briefly included below -

The obsession with protesting mascots and names like Redskins is an obsession of white Indians. They protest mascots, children dressing up on Halloween and other silly things because it makes them feel Indian. It lets them scream racism. They know no other way of feeling Indian. They are totally disconnected from the real issues that affect mainstream Indians on reservations. They are fully Americanized. They have lost their language, culture, religion and even their skin color.

Unfortunately the white Indians have the loudest voices. If we go against them, they hurt us in our careers and lives because they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything. They have the money and the power. We have the Indian-ness.

Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues to worry about. Like diabetes, how we get our next meal, crime on reservations, lack of electricity, lack of toilets, lack of running water, no heat when there’s snow outside, getting a relative to a dialysis clinic when there is no transport, finding a job when there’s near 100% unemployment, near 100% consideration of suicide among our youth, alcoholism, drug abuse, elder abuse, spouse abuse, land loss, culture loss, language loss, etc. Mascots are a NON-ISSUE to us.

The media should be screaming about the real issues. Instead their main focus is on mascots. The focus on mascots and meaningless debates about redskins detract attention from the REAL issues facing brown Indians.

When these white Indians offend sports fans or insult a little child who loves Indians and puts on feathers, they alienate the rest of America against brown Indians. Note that the white Indians blend in beautifully into the white society. No one even realizes they are Indian. But when an angered sports fan who is upset about losing his mascot screams “**** you sand ******” or throws a beer can at us from a passing car screaming “MOTHER******, GO BACK TO YOUR ****ING RESERVATION!!” they scream such obscenities at my father, my cousin, my brother and my family members who look Indian."

Continue Reading Here

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The Washington Redskins have been under tremendous scrutiny over the last couple of months in regard to what some consider an “offensive” and “racist” name. While the group of complainants only make up 9% of the Native American population (according to the latest poll), many have wondered why the other 91% have been left unspoken.

It’s easy to assume the silence means indifference to the name, but you have to consider the repercussions of speaking out against the popular opinion of the Native American Media. Such punishments can range from the removal from the tribe, as well as professions ruined.

With the possible backlash from the powers that be it’s easy to understand why most Native American’s do not speak out, as they are in fear of their reputation, jobs, or even their life. On reservations it is their law, not the law the general public is used to.

Kevin, whose last name we cannot use wrote us a lengthy email on exactly this after seeing Ray’s appearance on “Outside the Lines” defending the Redskins name. He explains why those who support the Washington Redskins, as well as other teams with Native American connections are kept in silence.

“We quietly support you for the following main reasons, which are briefly included below -

The obsession with protesting mascots and names like Redskins is an obsession of white Indians. They protest mascots, children dressing up on Halloween and other silly things because it makes them feel Indian. It lets them scream racism. They know no other way of feeling Indian. They are totally disconnected from the real issues that affect mainstream Indians on reservations. They are fully Americanized. They have lost their language, culture, religion and even their skin color.

Unfortunately the white Indians have the loudest voices. If we go against them, they hurt us in our careers and lives because they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything. They have the money and the power. We have the Indian-ness.

Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues to worry about. Like diabetes, how we get our next meal, crime on reservations, lack of electricity, lack of toilets, lack of running water, no heat when there’s snow outside, getting a relative to a dialysis clinic when there is no transport, finding a job when there’s near 100% unemployment, near 100% consideration of suicide among our youth, alcoholism, drug abuse, elder abuse, spouse abuse, land loss, culture loss, language loss, etc. Mascots are a NON-ISSUE to us.

The media should be screaming about the real issues. Instead their main focus is on mascots. The focus on mascots and meaningless debates about redskins detract attention from the REAL issues facing brown Indians.

When these white Indians offend sports fans or insult a little child who loves Indians and puts on feathers, they alienate the rest of America against brown Indians. Note that the white Indians blend in beautifully into the white society. No one even realizes they are Indian. But when an angered sports fan who is upset about losing his mascot screams “**** you sand ******” or throws a beer can at us from a passing car screaming “MOTHER******, GO BACK TO YOUR ****ING RESERVATION!!” they scream such obscenities at my father, my cousin, my brother and my family members who look Indian."

Continue Reading Here

great read. All have become crazy withe the topic. Move on

---------------

ES Staff appended edit:

11. Please do not use the “Quote” feature to quote images, large blocks of text or embedded YouTube videos.

It wastes space and unnecessarily extends and clutters threads.

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This is a fantastic article that sheds a lot of light on issues that I and I am sure many of us did not truly understand. PC needs to stop somewhere. Especially when it is not offensive to the tribes that people claim are offended. ESPECIALLY when it is done in an admiral way with a noble mascot.

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Fascinating article. I'm glad Kevin brought up the actual plight of modern American Indians as a contrast to this genuinely silly and petty argument over the nickname.

My old church in Greenville did some mission work at a reservation in Oklahoma and from what I've heard, the conditions are comparable to third world nations. That is deplorable. That's the real struggle American Indians have to deal with in this country.

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Sometimes I wonder if people are actually offended or if they wonder, "can/should I be offended?"

I'm a minority and numerous times people around me will walk on eggshells if there is a cultural or religious joke thrown my way in good nature. Sometimes people are offended for me. So much so that I need to calm THEM down.

I see a lot of media members seemingly taking this last path. They are taking the high road by erring with caution and going on the record of being politically correct. I get it... but it's irritating at times when someone makes it an agenda and is more offended than the people who are supposedly being slighted. It's a name of a team, not a punchline or a slander against ourselves.

Edit: and with all the grief Snyder and the team get over the name, they'd make incredible amounts of cash by changing the name. Replacement hats, shirts, jerseys, mugs, flags, posters, etc. Not saying everyone would upgrade, but certainly far more merchandise would move. They are trying to preserve tradition. It'd be easy to fold at the first sign of pressure and get a nice, fat check for one's troubles.

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Great read but I didn't take it as a defense of the Redskins name (although it is so a degree) as much as prioritizing what is important to real Native Americans. I hope that what people remember is the real problems Native Americans face so that those who can, will help to solve them. I'm as big a Redskins fan as they come but it would be a real sin if the only thing people remember about this article is that the guy doesn't have a problem with our team name.

---------- Post added March-1st-2013 at 08:24 PM ----------

Fascinating article. I'm glad Kevin brought up the actual plight of modern American Indians as a contrast to this genuinely silly and petty argument over the nickname.

My old church in Greenville did some mission work at a reservation in Oklahoma and from what I've heard, the conditions are comparable to third world nations. That is deplorable. That's the real struggle American Indians have to deal with in this country.

We don't seem to agree on much but I'm glad someone else gets the important issue raised by the article. :cheers:

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In addition to it being right and good, Snyder would be wise to donate time and money to supporting Native American/Indian causes such as fighting diabetes, gambling or alcohol addiction, poverty, etc.

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I have a good friend who has a German last name, his lineage comes from Germany and England, he's whiter/paler and blonder than I am, yet he always puts in that he's 1/16th Cherokee. I told him 1/16th doesn't count and I'm sure somewhere along the line I can find lineage in other backgrounds just from marriages and divorces. But I just say I'm of Irish/English decent even though I can add in some German and possibly Nordic somewhere, but it's not worth it. I tell my friend he's an idiot and he's not Native American.

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In addition to it being right and good, Snyder would be wise to donate time and money to supporting Native American/Indian causes such as fighting diabetes, gambling or alcohol addiction, poverty, etc.

That is something I can get on board with!

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Oh and someone please forward this to all the media who had previously posted articles in the past against our name.

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Reliance on a poll like that is dangerous IMO. Any sociologist would tell you that. There's simply no way to sufficiently quantify who feels the offensiveness of the word.

And now Confirmation of this query:

The poll used in the article, cited as the "latest poll" is a phone survey from 2003-2004, with 700+ Native Americans from different parts of the country participating.

The poll is 10 years old. It has 700+ subjects involved. There are 1.5 million Native Americans living in the US today. Doesn't add up.

I'm a sociology major and if I handed this article in (a bunk poll and an interview with one guy) and tried to pass it off as an argument that the name isn't racist, I'd get laughed at and promptly failed.

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As I've posted before, this is the general prevailing attitude of at least 5 or so Navajo Indians I was acquainted with while living in Flagstaff, AZ. Three of them were Redskins fans while the others told me the name is such a non-issue it isn't funny. These were young men who were attending college but who had grown up in poverty on the reservation. They said a very small percentage of Native Americans were actually disturbed by the Redskins name, and that those Indians were not real Indians.

Others I suppose feel offense for people they assume should be offended, and if those people don't feel offended they are patronized as not understanding why exactly they should be offended.

I have a good friend who has a German last name, his lineage comes from Germany and England, he's whiter/paler and blonder than I am, yet he always puts in that he's 1/16th Cherokee. I told him 1/16th doesn't count and I'm sure somewhere along the line I can find lineage in other backgrounds just from marriages and divorces. But I just say I'm of Irish/English decent even though I can add in some German and possibly Nordic somewhere, but it's not worth it. I tell my friend he's an idiot and he's not Native American.

I've always dealt with the reverse: I'm 1/8th Italian, and that 8th determined my last name. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone heard my last name and said "oh, you're Italian huh? You don't really LOOK Italian..." and I have to explain that I'm only 1/8th Italian and I'm actually mostly German. I've certainly encountered those before who are 1/8th or less of some ethnic group and regardless of that fact they have decided to identify with that particular part of their ancestry.

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The argument can be summed up into four major points.

1 - Native American imagery and mascots are not being used in an offensive manner by the Redskins.

2 - White Indians are doing this and we can't stop them because they control everything. "they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything." They are apparently united against any "brown indian" that doesn't join them in their crusade against native american imagery being used in a manner they deem unacceptable and racist.

3 - "Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues"

4 - Stop telling them not to use Indian mascots and imagery because doing so turns them into racists! Examples:

-angered sports fan who is upset about losing his mascot screams “**** you sand ******” or throws a beer can at us from a passing car screaming “MOTHER******, GO BACK TO YOUR ****ING RESERVATION!!” they scream such obscenities at my father, my cousin, my brother and my family members who look Indian.

- If we twist America’s arm and get America to concede on the trivial items, the country will lose patience with us when we negotiate important A-items.

- That little child who insists on dressing up in a costume and putting on some feathers loves Indians, but when white Indians insult his mom and dad by calling them racists, he grows up to resent those of us who look Indian.

- The vocalizations of these white Indians seem to unite Indian opposition – they find forums and avenues to kindle hatred against Indians and rehash and reiterate negative stereotypes about Indians.

The first argument I can accept as a valid opinion. I happen to agree with it in that I do not think the Redskins mean any offense at all and no one clings to the name because they like or mean to offend anyone. The other three arguments that I took from that article are dubious. The last one is the worst of all.

Show of hands please, how many of you are developing racist feelings against native americans because of this issue?

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Interesting perspective...especially the "we have bigger issues to care about". Sad stuff.

I'd be interested in hearing from other "brown Indians".

Maybe some of you Twitterers (?) should try forwarding this to the big advocates of the name change for a reaction...Wise, Steinberg, Graziano, etc.

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Interesting perspective...especially the "we have bigger issues to care about". Sad stuff.

I'd be interested in hearing from other "brown Indians".

Maybe some of you Twitterers (?) should try forwarding this to the big advocates of the name change for a reaction...Wise, Steinberg, Graziano, etc.

This article would literally do nothing. Nothing said in this article hasn't already been brought to light, and Destino has exposed its other weaknesses in the argument.

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This was an incredible read, thank you for sharing with us, and I really hope it gets some serious play time in local/national media.

As a grad student at FSU I never understand those that call for the Seminoles to change their name. There is nothing but respect for the Seminole tribe amongst the University, their sports teams, and their fans. Take a walk through any of the FSU buildings (Moore Athletic Center/Strozier Library to name a couple) and you'll understand the love and admiration. I mean shoot, the Seminole tribe is even on the payroll.

I feel the exact same way about my beloved Redskins. Never once have I seen one of the Redskins faithful degrade the Native American name, and up until recently I didn't even realize that the name "Redskin" was originally coined by Native Americans. Which gives me even more reason to stand by my beloved Redskins.

Also, the whole Brown Indian/White Indian dynamic was pretty interesting. I didn't know that Native Americans self-classified like that.

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The thread title is somewhat misleading. The franchise lacks a credible Native voice on our behalf.

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It is disgusting that mascots is the issue the media chooses to focus on when it comes to Native Peoples. You know the theft of their land and genocide of their people isn't important. Hopefully the true voice of Native Americans is finally heard and Im sure it will have nothing to do with mascots.

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Imo white Indians sounds like the naacp never focuses on the real issues an always playing the race card to favor there agenda, which is $$.

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Imo white Indians sounds like the naacp never focuses on the real issues an always playing the race card to favor there agenda, which is $$.

I think it sounds like racists that claim Jews control Hollywood and banks. "Kevin" claims they control everything with an iron fist.

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Reliance on a poll like that is dangerous IMO. Any sociologist would tell you that. There's simply no way to sufficiently quantify who feels the offensiveness of the word.

And now Confirmation of this query:

The poll used in the article, cited as the "latest poll" is a phone survey from 2003-2004, with 700+ Native Americans from different parts of the country participating.

The poll is 10 years old. It has 700+ subjects involved. There are 1.5 million Native Americans living in the US today. Doesn't add up.

I'm a sociology major and if I handed this article in (a bunk poll and an interview with one guy) and tried to pass it off as an argument that the name isn't racist, I'd get laughed at and promptly failed.

Dated yes..."bunk poll" ...absolutely not. It was a professionally administered poll by a well respected non profit organization consistent with polling standards to estimate the opinion of Native Americans. Even IF you question the accuracy of polling, when did you ever see a poll showing 90 percent of the people polled agreeing on something? Even if you want to suggest a larger margin of error, it still shows a huge percentage of Native Americans who have no issues with the word "Redskins".

Oh, and just a year or two before that poll was a poll done by Sports Illustrated with about 80% of Native Americans having no problem with the word "Redskins". Pretty confirmatory that a very large percentage of the Native American population has other priorities and does not consider Redskins disparaging.

And the poll is just one part of the argument that "Redskins" is not a racist word. Consider:

  • Ives Goddard, a distinguished American Indian linguist with the Smithsonian Institution concluded that the word was first used by American Indian chiefs describing themselves and was never used to disparage Native Americans
  • A linguist at Duke (forget his name now) concluded the same
  • No linguist has found any proof that "Redskins" has been used disparaging or that it allegedly means "bloody scalp" [which is an internet myth]
  • Red Mesa High School chose "Redskins" as their mascot/logo. It is on a Navajo Indian Reservation in AZ with 100 % Native American students.
  • If "Redskins" was such a racist word, why was the first coach and several players on the team American Indian? Why would they play for such a team?
  • Opponents to the "Redskins" name say it is racist yet they can point to no proof. They just say "it is". The best they have is some American dictionaries that say it is offensive; but no information about why or how it became an offensive word. The "N word" is heavily documented in video, news media and verbal history. Yet nothing for "Redskins" being racist. Why?

Do I believe some Native Americans are offended by the word? Sure. I think many of them have no clue about the history of the word and have been heavily influenced by a liberal media that keeps bringing it up as a racist word.

And I think there is a very reasonable argument to make that a Native American does not like or want sports teams to be using Native American Imagery. I can accept that argument. But there appears to be a great deal of disagreement among American Indians about that position.

I strongly object to the characterization of "Redskins" as being racist or disparaging because the factual history simply does not support such an argument.

Trust me....My paper would get an "A" and UnWise Mike's paper would at best get a "D" before a fair and impartial teacher. Facts are on our side.

Hail! :logo:

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Question. If the word was originally used by native americans does that preclude it from being used differently by others? I ask because I see that argument made all the time and it seems irrelevant to me. The strongest argument is asking for proof that the name is indeed racist. That point doesn't seem to be resolved one way or another, and those wanting a name change would have to win that point first.

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I have said on here before that my grandmother was Native American. However, I do not really claim to be. I tell people that I have close heritage but dont run around telling everyone Im "Indian". I am white, was raised white and know nothing of that culture (very sad now that I am older and she is gone). We watched Redskins games every Sunday growing up and she never had an issue with the name, nobody did.

All of the complaints and hurt feelings come from people, I believe, with nothing better to do. It is a "cause" for them. The article is spot on that so much energy is wasted on such an insignificant issue when there are REAL problems on reservations and among native people. I just wish people would drop this crap and focus on something that could actually be a positive influence on and do some good for Native American lives.

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"The media should be screaming about the real issues" - best line in the story!

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The argument can be summed up into four major points.

1 - Native American imagery and mascots are not being used in an offensive manner by the Redskins.

2 - White Indians are doing this and we can't stop them because they control everything. "they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything." They are apparently united against any "brown indian" that doesn't join them in their crusade against native american imagery being used in a manner they deem unacceptable and racist.

3 - "Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues"

4 - Stop telling them not to use Indian mascots and imagery because doing so turns them into racists! Examples:

The first argument I can accept as a valid opinion. I happen to agree with it in that I do not think the Redskins mean any offense at all and no one clings to the name because they like or mean to offend anyone. The other three arguments that I took from that article are dubious. The last one is the worst of all.

Show of hands please, how many of you are developing racist feelings against native americans because of this issue?

Well, obviously non Indians will able to use those arguments very successfully. But if that's the prevailing opinion (which I'm not saying it is) in the Native American community, you can't argue against it.

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