WP: Top Psychiatric Group Urges Making Gay Marriage Legal

[Kilmer17]

Originally posted by luckydevil

You are right.

It's why marriage should be left to institutions like the church and not the public sector.

Too late to put that Genie back in the bottle unfortunately.

[Thiebear]

Originally posted by Destino

Kilmer - Your logic appears to be the same as saying people with no legs are free to use the same stairs as anyone else. Yeah they most likely can drag themselves up if they had to, but that kind of equality isn't any good.

LuckyDevil - You asked me "why" and the answer to me is simple, I feel more comfortable making decisions when I know exactly what I'm dealing with. It's purely my preference to do things this way.

TWA - You are spot on, this ultimately is not a issue of rights, it's what society wants. Right now society isn't going for it. Like it or not the nation has for the time being said "no" to this issue.

very nicely stated... and organized so well too

[luckydevil]

Too late to put that Genie back in the bottle unfortunately.

It's never too late

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Sarge

Conversely, a reason I'm glad I'm not from Boston

Sarge, you can live in a world af hatred and fear all you want, I am strong enough of a man to admit that's not how I want to live my life. I know that thinkging like that it is wrong for society. Hatred is a negative human emotion which has brought death and distruction to society since the inception of civilization. Until this emotion is eliminated from our culture, we will continue along the path.

You can still be strong, steadfast, love your country, support everthing right and just without hatred. If you go around in life hating everything, or everyone it makes for a real lonely life. Once you actually look inside yourself and see where this hatred is coming from, you can correct the problem and move to the future. Now I'm not suggesting you have a homophobic fear of anything . . . Navy Dave, now that might be another story :laugh:

All I'm saying is that it is easy to hate someone or something you do not know. Maybe if you actually knew a few homosexuals (not that they would admit to it around you) you might not be as quick to prejudge others. But then again, chances are you work with a number of them, it's just that the military is not the best of places to "come out".

But hey, at least we figured out where your real hatred towards Clinton comes from, it isn't the military was underfunded mentality, it is because he allowed gays in the military. Next time, we can all save a lot of back and forth bickering if you are just honest up front and actually tell us the real reasons for Clinton bashing.

[jpillian]

Great, another thread on homosexuals. :doh:

These always turn out well...

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

People like me? You're an arrogant sob Larry. People like me are the people that got that legislation passed. People like me are the reason that equal rights exist. While people like you sat around and ****ed and complained. People like me stood up and did something about it.

This "tiny minority" is not being treated unfairly. They have the same rights as every other person. I cant marry anyone I want. Neither can you. Neither can a homosexual. It's that simple.

Your arrogance is stunning. Your logic is absurd. And your vitriol is tired.

Kilmer, Larry is 100% right in this thread. You are taking a bigoted position trying to make a certain segment of the society different from everyone else.

If you realize it or not, it is bigoted, there is no difference if you say I like this group and not that group, or if I say I like this race and not that race.

You can accept one segment of society and still be a bigot, you have to look at your stance and position from where others would see it. How would you look at yourself if you were a homosexual man who wants nothing more then to live and take care of his partner if something happens to him.

It isn't about marriage either, it is about RIGHTS!!! These RIGHTS are granted to some but not all. It is hatred, it IS bigoted and there is no difference from hating homosexuals because they are different, then there is for hating black people because they are different.

One day you may come to realize the errors of your thinking and logic, but alas I am not holding out hope. There are too many bigots to tell you what you are thinking is OK, when in fact the opposite is true.

[Kilmer17]

Originally posted by chomerics

Kilmer, Larry is 100% right in this thread. You are taking a bigoted position trying to make a certain segment of the society different from everyone else.

If you realize it or not, it is bigoted, there is no difference if you say I like this group and not that group, or if I say I like this race and not that race.

You can accept one segment of society and still be a bigot, you have to look at your stance and position from where others would see it. How would you look at yourself if you were a homosexual man who wants nothing more then to live and take care of his partner if something happens to him.

It isn't about marriage either, it is about RIGHTS!!! These RIGHTS are granted to some but not all. It is hatred, it IS bigoted and there is no difference from hating homosexuals because they are different, then there is for hating black people because they are different.

One day you may come to realize the errors of your thinking and logic, but alas I am not holding out hope. There are too many bigots to tell you what you are thinking is OK, when in fact the opposite is true.

My view is that all people have the same rights in marriage. Yours (and Larry's) is that a homosexual needs EXTRA rights. Which on eof these views is bigotted? Certainly not mine.

I cannot marry a man, neither can a homosexual. We both ahve the same rights.

The rest of the bs about caring for a loved one is total crap. Those rights already exist. And they should exist. Marriage isnt needed for those though. A homosexual already has the right to care for his loved one.

But the slippery slope still exists. If homosexuals are given a special right to marry same genders, what's the difference between that and a man asking to marry 3 women? Or a brother marry a sister? Those groups already have the same rights as everyone else. But the second you grant EXTRA rights to homosexuals, the equal protection clause says we must offer the same to everyone.

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

My view is that all people have the same rights in marriage. Yours (and Larry's) is that a homosexual needs EXTRA rights. Which on eof these views is bigotted? Certainly not mine.

No they do not, your view is wrong, because people do NOT have the same rights. You can marry who you want, but they can not marry who they want, this is NOT equal in any world other then yours.

I cannot marry a man, neither can a homosexual. We both ahve the same rights.

You do not WANT to marry a man, so this does not bother you. Just because you can marry who you want does not make the situation equal. Used Larry's analogy with race, it would not be equal then would it?

If you could only marry a white woman, would you still say that marrying somebody of a differenc race is an "EXTRA" right? No you would not, so why do you use this logic here. You see the funny thing about logic is that it works across ALL situations, to infer only one situation is correct and the other is false is, well, illogical. It is also hypocrytical, but we all knew this anyway.

The rest of the bs about caring for a loved one is total crap. Those rights already exist. And they should exist. Marriage isnt needed for those though. A homosexual already has the right to care for his loved one.

It is total crap in your world, because you are taking a bigoted stance. It is the EXACT same stance many of the people took in the south in the 40's when there were two seperate rest rooms one for whites and one for coloreds. You can fail to see the relation because your hatred blinds this. In your eyes, it is perfectally for a man to have a partnes, just as long as the partner has no rights in the relationship. Again, if you were a homosexual, how would you look at yourself?

But the slippery slope still exists. If homosexuals are given a special right to marry same genders, what's the difference between that and a man asking to marry 3 women? Or a brother marry a sister? Those groups already have the same rights as everyone else. But the second you grant EXTRA rights to homosexuals, the equal protection clause says we must offer the same to everyone.

There aren't "extra" rights, just like you do not need an "extra" right ot marry somebody of the opposite color or race. Only YOU are claiming these rights are "Extra" because your hatred can't see the situation objectively.

One more time, if you were a homosexual man, how would you look at your personality How would you feel is somebody told you that you were a second class citizen, snd that you should stay as such? For some reason I don't think you'd be accepting of the fact. You may say so, but I know you enough that saying it would only be to save face here.

[Kilmer17]

Originally posted by chomerics

No they do not, your view is wrong, because people do NOT have the same rights. You can marry who you want, but they can not marry who they want, this is NOT equal in any world other then yours.

You do not WANT to marry a man, so this does not bother you. Just because you can marry who you want does not make the situation equal. Used Larry's analogy with race, it would not be equal then would it?

If you could only marry a white woman, would you still say that marrying somebody of a differenc race is an "EXTRA" right? No you would not, so why do you use this logic here. You see the funny thing about logic is that it works across ALL situations, to infer only one situation is correct and the other is false is, well, illogical. It is also hypocrytical, but we all knew this anyway.

It is total crap in your world, because you are taking a bigoted stance. It is the EXACT same stance many of the people took in the south in the 40's when there were two seperate rest rooms one for whites and one for coloreds. You can fail to see the relation because your hatred blinds this. In your eyes, it is perfectally for a man to have a partnes, just as long as the partner has no rights in the relationship. Again, if you were a homosexual, how would you look at yourself?

There aren't "extra" rights, just like you do not need an "extra" right ot marry somebody of the opposite color or race. Only YOU are claiming these rights are "Extra" because your hatred can't see the situation objectively.

One more time, if you were a homosexual man, how would you look at your personality How would you feel is somebody told you that you were a second class citizen, snd that you should stay as such? For some reason I don't think you'd be accepting of the fact. You may say so, but I know you enough that saying it would only be to save face here.

Nothing like asking and answering your own question.

I'll say this again. I DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MARRY WHOEVER I WANT. I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MARRY A (singular) WOMAN NOT RELATED TO ME. You, Larry, and every homosexual in the US has these exact same rights.

The crap is yours and Larry's lame attempts to equate this to a civil rights issue. I'd point you towards this http://www.fallacyfiles.org/index.html to show you how absurd they are, but you already know that. But use them because you lack real facts to back up your positions.

Your view is the bigotted one, because it assumes that one group deserves more than another.

[Skins24]

Originally posted by chomerics

Sarge, you can live in a world af hatred and fear all you want, I am strong enough of a man to admit that's not how I want to live my life. I know that thinkging like that it is wrong for society. Hatred is a negative human emotion which has brought death and distruction to society since the inception of civilization. Until this emotion is eliminated from our culture, we will continue along the path.

You can still be strong, steadfast, love your country, support everthing right and just without hatred. If you go around in life hating everything, or everyone it makes for a real lonely life. Once you actually look inside yourself and see where this hatred is coming from, you can correct the problem and move to the future. Now I'm not suggesting you have a homophobic fear of anything . . . Navy Dave, now that might be another story :laugh:

All I'm saying is that it is easy to hate someone or something you do not know. Maybe if you actually knew a few homosexuals (not that they would admit to it around you) you might not be as quick to prejudge others. But then again, chances are you work with a number of them, it's just that the military is not the best of places to "come out".

But hey, at least we figured out where your real hatred towards Clinton comes from, it isn't the military was underfunded mentality, it is because he allowed gays in the military. Next time, we can all save a lot of back and forth bickering if you are just honest up front and actually tell us the real reasons for Clinton bashing.

I know a couple homosexuals

jk of course

But I know a couple that I don't hate. Yet the act still repulses me.

And no I don't fear it, as you apparently believe all people who are against gay marraige hate gays and/or fear it/them. I'm not sure where you got that ridiculous line of thought from.

lol@"look inside yourelf and see where this hatred is coming from"

Get real man. Not supporting something doesn't always equate to hate or fear.

I don't support people standing on the edge of 2000 foot tall cliffs, I'm not afraid of heights though. (bad example I know, but point still stands)

what the cliched saying? "Love the person not the act" or some **** like that?

edit: All stop watches set? Let's see how long this thread lasts.

[Destino]

Originally posted by luckydevil

If homosexuality was proven to be a choice, government still shouldn't have the right to treat homosexuals any differently than straight people.

I am not comfortable with giving power to government to decide what lifestyles are appropriate or not appropriate. The concept of "normality" is completely subjective.

It just sex (a consensual act between two individuals)

Where the hell were you when the founding fathers were busy designing our government?

[luckydevil]

Where the hell were you when the founding fathers were busy designing our government?

In the background, screaming about how the constitution betrayed the revolution and rooting for the anti-federalists

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

Nothing like asking and answering your own question.

I'll say this again. I DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MARRY WHOEVER I WANT.

Yes you do, you want to marry a woman, so you DO have the right to marry who ever you want.

Kilmer wants to marry a woman

Kilmer gets to marry a woman

Kilmer gets to marry who he wants

Your argument is completely illogical, and I am done with you. I am not going to debate with somebody who can not understand basic logic, or completely ignores it because it is against their ideology. It is hypocrytical, and I am not going to bather wasting any more time.

[Kilmer17]

The irony, of course, is that you just used faulty logic to attempt to prove your point. PAr for the course for your side of the debate on this thread.

But run along. Dont let facts get in the way of your bigotry and hatred.

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Skins24

I know a couple homosexuals

jk of course

But I know a couple that I don't hate. Yet the act still repulses me.

And no I don't fear it, as you apparently believe all people who are against gay marraige hate gays and/or fear it/them. I'm not sure where you got that ridiculous line of thought from.

I never said that people who don't agree with homosexuals marrying hate them, but I know the 2 posters have a different outlook, you are misreading my posts and generalizing everything.

lol@"look inside yourelf and see where this hatred is coming from"

Get real man. Not supporting something doesn't always equate to hate or fear.

Knowing the history of the aforementioned posters there IS a fear/hate relationship.

I don't support people standing on the edge of 2000 foot tall cliffs, I'm not afraid of heights though. (bad example I know, but point still stands)

what the cliched saying? "Love the person not the act" or some **** like that?

And you have also not said homosexuals are an abomination, have not refered to them as "homos or "lesbos" because if you did, I would put you in that class.

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

The irony, of course, is that you just used faulty logic to attempt to prove your point. PAr for the course for your side of the debate on this thread.

But run along. Dont let facts get in the way of your bigotry and hatred.

:laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh:

[Kilmer17]

Originally posted by chomerics

:laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh:

Thought you were done?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Aw, come on guys, don't quit. I've had a good time reading you bullheaded and self righteous posts. I just came back to my computer with my beer and hot dogs waiting for the next round!

[Dick Edds]

Originally posted by Larry

But, Thiebear,

Since all our divorce/child custody laws have been written to favor the woman, how would they handle same-sex couples.

Would two females have to pay half of their income to each other?

I guess the courts would have to decide who the "giver" and the "taker" are in the relationship . . . seriously though, i see nothing wrong with it as long as it doesn't hinder the priveleges/beneifts I have gained from being married.

There are more important things our govt shoud be dealing with IMO, it's a waste of my tax dollars for them to sit around debating whether it should be legal.

[Sarge]

Originally posted by Skins24

I know a couple homosexuals

jk of course

And no I don't fear it, as you apparently believe all people who are against gay marraige hate gays and/or fear it/them. I'm not sure where you got that ridiculous line of thought from.

lol@"look inside yourelf and see where this hatred is coming from"

Get real man. Not supporting something doesn't always equate to hate or fear.

Leftist Talking Points Manual, page 87. It's the last page before the Chapter, "If it Feels Good, DO IT"

[Larry]

Quoting myself

Please explain to me the difference between the following statements:

• It's OK to tell gays that they can only mary peope of one, state-mandated gender, because everybody else is only allowed to mary one gender, too.
  
• It's OK to tell people that they can only mary people of the same race, because everybody else is only allowed to mary one race, too.
  
• It's OK to require blacks to ride in their section of the bus, because everybody else is required to ride in their section, too.
  

[Sarge]

Simple. #2 and # 3 are based on race. Number one is based on a disgusting behavior. Get it? Race? Behavior? See the difference?

[Larry]

Originally posted by Sarge

Simple. #2 and # 3 are based on race. Number one is based on a disgusting behavior. Get it? Race? Behavior? See the difference?

Which explains why (IYO), legally-mandated discrimination against one is OK, but the others aren't.

It does not support Kilmer's position that gays wanting to marry are asking for special treatment. Any more than blacks were asking for special rights, because they wanted the right to ride in their part of the bus, and in the white section, too.

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

Thought you were done?

Lust laughing at your Monty Pyton's Black Knight Skills in the debate. . . I'm not dead. . . You've got not arms left. . . I've had worse.

:laugh:

[twa]

Originally posted by Larry

Which explains why (IYO), legally-mandated discrimination against one is OK, but the others aren't.

It does not support Kilmer's position that gays wanting to marry are asking for special treatment. Any more than blacks were asking for special rights, because they wanted the right to ride in their part of the bus, and in the white section, too.

Would you feel better if he said they were asking for a NEW or NON-Existing Right?

I would agree Special is poor phrasing but I would disagree with your comparing race to actions or behavior.

It comes back to, Is it hardwired into them ?

Or a result of outside influences or preferences,which I tend to believe.