jkam Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I imagine Gibbs really hoped at some point to ride the wild horse until he tamed it and the receivers never got tamed. I guess that says it all. Kept hoping they'd change, and they never did, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 with the caveat that I am onboard with the idea that this is Gibbs' show and he must be allowed maximum maneuvering room...too much of this strikes me as excuse of the week. at a certain point one has to ask...why are talented, proven players not performing here? what is it about this organization that isn't drawing the maximum from folks (on offense)? coles, if anything, was not a lazy route runner. he was a strength in the locker room. he IS the sort of player Gibbs says he looks for. My eyes didn't deceive me. I saw an interior O-line that was mediocre at best. true, thomas was hurt....but raymer was out muscled at times and dockery ran hot and cold. yes - we do need a bona fide downfield threat. but let's not imagine for a second that - absent other changes - new wideouts are going to cure everything......they won't. the defense set the standard. Gibbs needs to find his players just as Williams did (though he squeezed the max out of a lot of players who were already here). I'll buy into that. I'm just weary of the excuse machine - it's grown tiresome. Let's get the players Joe wants and DEMAND performance. in a separate vein: the spin on this site is amazing. players go from heros to smucks in a heartbeat. let us assume that there is a plan in place; that hard lessons were learned last season; and that the trajectory is upward......we can all live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNut73 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Good post Art...congrats on the baby!!! Man...what a way to start a Monday...hearing about Coles about to be released and knowing Gardner can seek a trade...WOW - this is supposed to be the off-season...a time of no news. I've always been leary of Coles - there were a few comments I saw him make prior to last season (if we didn't win then all this work they are putting us through is not worth it...or something along those lines was the quote) and the refusal to have the foot surgery (made me wonder if he'd still have the toe problems next year). I honestly don't mind that he will be gone. I'm a little nervous as to how this will all play out, but I trust in Gibbs and what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Congratulations, Art! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 cmon Skinsnut - you're talking about a person's body. his physical welfare. he alone has the right to determine what is best for him. maybe he doesn't want to be another one of those semi-conscious athletes who can't walk when the temperature drops below 50 degrees but reminiscences in his 40's while most of the rest of us are still spiralling toward better things about the good ole days. come or go - give him his due. coles was out there giving it his all. he alone is accountable for his future and his welfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 Al, For the most part I've seen a majority of posts on this site giving Coles his due. I certainly gave him his due in my posts. So, when you say this site is amazing in that we can turn quickly on a player, are you simply making that up about Coles, or, do you just not agree that people who think very highly of Coles can also believe getting rid of him won't necessarily be the end of the world? Other players that have been turned on by the fans were turned on LONG before their departure. No one has flipped on Coles, other than to suggest with his toe injury he may not be as good as he was initially. And that is certainly a fair assessment made long ago by many people. Heck, I think ASF began that particular crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMetal Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Congrats Art. Bottom line for me is: does this make us better or worse next year? WORSE. Gibbs is NOT going to play a rookie WR, and even if he does he won't trust him enough to fully utilize his skills. Plus it has been shown that Gibbs is not an astute judge of WR talent in the draft. (Desmond) And as has been so often pointed out, it is a mediocre crop of free agents WR's at best. None of those guys is a legit #1 WR, which is what we reportedly are seeking. So where does that leave us? Exactly. None of the scrubs languishing on our "depth" chart can be counted upon to give us anything special. Jacobs has shown NOTHING, McCants is in the dog house, and Thrash is just past his prime. So it's either gonna be a bunch of no-name guys who can't make plays, or some splashy surprise addition ala Portis who will make too much $$$ and underproduce. Yippee. This move really bothers me. It's like they're suddenly more concerned with sending messages and attempting to create some kind of "patriot" vibe than they are actually winning games. Winning should always be the most important thing. Not HOW you win or WHO you win with, but just winning. I could give a f*ck about the locker room mentality, or who wants to be here. Sorry, I'm just ranting now. I realize that and will cease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by Art Al, For the most part I've seen a majority of posts on this site giving Coles his due. I certainly gave him his due in my posts. So, when you say this site is amazing in that we can turn quickly on a player, are you simply making that up about Coles, or, do you just not agree that people who think very highly of Coles can also believe getting rid of him won't necessarily be the end of the world? Other players that have been turned on by the fans were turned on LONG before their departure. No one has flipped on Coles, other than to suggest with his toe injury he may not be as good as he was initially. And that is certainly a fair assessment made long ago by many people. Heck, I think ASF began that particular crusade. I think there is only one player that I can think of that for a few days, maybe a week there where everyone was talking about & turning on & that was Arrington. A lot of people turned on him "suddenly" on here, or it seemed that way. There have always been the complaints about his "freelance" play, but when trade rumors started about him, it was like chum in the water. It was rather ridiculous. I've never seen people turn on someone so fast. It was becoming increasingly difficult to come in & just look around & talk a little smack without getting into a heated discussion about the future of LaVar Arrington with the Redskins. Maybe it's just me, but I thought that was sudden. Other than that, I have to agree. Most people here have been incredibly respectful where Coles is concerned (even the few opposing team fans that have already posted about it) & most have already expressed concern about Gardner's play long before today & relief with the idea that he may be leaving. I have also given Coles his due. Great player, but if Gibbs feels the need to let him go, then let him go. He knows best what he needs to make this TEAM compete & ultimately, win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Art, You are in for the shock of your life when that baby is born and you realize that you don't know everything.:laugh: J/K my friend. Congrats and health and happiness to the baby and the Mrs. Great post btw, I agree with every word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 art....btw.......boy or girl???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REEGSKINS Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 congrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Big picture guys: Gibbs knew something none of us knew. Yes, some had doubts but nobody openly posted that we should get rid of Coles or that he was hurting the team in any way. Brunell overshadowed his dropped balls and poor blocking. That is 100% clear now. If you guys can't dig deep and see that Gibbs has a grander plan for this team than we may be accustomed to, then I don't know what to tell you. Be patient. This is a blessing in disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Art...I was gonna ask if you knew who the father was..... J/K...........the spousal unit and I have a baby girl and it's awesome!!!!! heck......a child might soften you up a bit!!! count on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Congratulations Art. I like the way you're looking at this move. I don't really believe that Coles was much of a liability on the field though. He ran good routes and he played hard - I don't think we can fault him for being a source of problems in the offense. When you really watch the games, I feel like the glaring weakness is the interior line. Coles came through for us a lot. That being said, it's possible that despite the hardworking attitude, Coles was infected with an attitude of frustration and losing that carried over from the Spurrier era. Going from a Spurrier system to a Gibbs system must be tough on any WR. The moping around and discontent must have been bad for the team as a whole, and another year of having someone in the locker room trying to get out could not have been good. I like that at least now, we are a more attractive destination for some FA receivers. A bona fide #1 will be more willing to come here, and our offseason priorities are more clear. I think that explains at least the early leak of this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hercules Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Congratulations on the new addition to the family! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNut73 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by fansince62 cmon Skinsnut - you're talking about a person's body. his physical welfare. he alone has the right to determine what is best for him. maybe he doesn't want to be another one of those semi-conscious athletes who can't walk when the temperature drops below 50 degrees but reminiscences in his 40's while most of the rest of us are still spiralling toward better things about the good ole days. come or go - give him his due. coles was out there giving it his all. he alone is accountable for his future and his welfare. fansince62 - I agree it's his body and he has a right to do with it what he wants. But the toe injury has hampered his play, and I was hoping he would do something to resolve the situation before the start of the next season. I was afraid that if he didn't take care of it...and it flares up again in week 2 of next season, are we going to have to deal with him playing at 80% (or whatever) the rest of the season? I like Coles. I am not souring on him in anyway...he's just not a big loss to me. Well, let me rephrase that...with the offense playing the way it did last year I'm willing to make any changes necessary. If it means we let a "big gun" go, then so be it. It's not the end of the world to me. I'm concerned about the WR position now...but if the guy doesn't want to be here...screw him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTINMFOX Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Art... Congrats man....these will be the best few months of your life. 0 to 4 months is the best. You getting home from work and the baby sleeping on your chest while your reading extremeskins and trying to type with one hand.....ahhhhh I appreciate your attitude....It has already helped me. I just had a customer walk in and say.... "That's it, I'm turning in my season tickets..." Seriously I gave him a smorgasbord of different opinions I have read on this board. I was actually able to turn his attitude around. He walked in wanting to vent, and left spending $400 (including a Lavar auth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 congrats on the kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Great post (as usual) Congrats, and good luck with the new arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr11fan Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 This move really bothers me. It's like they're suddenly more concerned with sending messages and attempting to create some kind of "patriot" vibe than they are actually winning games.Winning should always be the most important thing. Not HOW you win or WHO you win with, but just winning. I could give a f*ck about the locker room mentality, or who wants to be here. Sorry, I'm just ranting now. I realize that and will cease. Winning is most important, we've been winning the offseason and getting all of these high priced studs for years now and yet we haven't had one winning season since we started doing it (2000), these same guys have only resulted in an increase in wins one year, 5-11 to 6-10 this past year. Winning is the most important thing, but the team that has the most pro bowlers isn't necessarily a good team. Egos can clash, guys can be more concerned with stats that doing the little things like blocking and hustling on every down, things that we sometimes assume all these guys are doing but in reality many aren't. Lawyer Milloy is a great example a supremely talented athlete but is only concerned about the money, the pats shouldn't have gotten better after he left but they have if you go by the record and certainly thery are not worse off for it. And it doesn't mean Milloy isn't a great player and isn't playing well for Buffalo, but is he resulting in wins or just putting up impressive stats. After 3 straight losing seasons I'll just say that there is nobody that is untradable or unreleaseable if they are willing to make it feasible under the cap....... And congrats definetly to Art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsChick36 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 This is a great post, very thought provoking etc. however i don't think there is any need to insinuate that arrington needs to watch his back. Arrington is a fabulous player obviously coach likes him, he was defensive captain last year. just because i guy was able to do his job doesn't mean that he did it better. Don't get me wrong marshall was good but doesn't hold a candle to arrington when you consider time with the redskins, team chemistry, presence in the locker room/ clubhouse, and over all leadership. Congrats on the baby, thats wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Congrats on the new addition to the family Art!! Good post, but there's one thing I think you missed. Gibbs tried to talk Coles out of leaving. The way your post is written it almost sounds like a Clinton/Kerry spinfest:) That is, you make it sound as if Gibbs showed Coles the door while (according to the Com-Post article) Coles expressed dissatisfaction with his role in the offense and requested the release. In fact he's so dissatisfied he even offered to give $$$ back. Your version of things is quite plausible-just not probable. Maybe Coles was really chaffing at criticism leveled by the coaching staff and that spurred his decision. However, I think what's most likely is he just didn't like the run first offense and the physical practices and decided to opt out. Therefore I don't think its too reasonable to just assume that the WRs were the source of all our offensive woes last season. After all, their being in the right place or not had little or nothing to do with our QBs running for their lives after getting quick pressure up the midde last season. However I do agree with your assertion that there's a chance this move could work out to being addition by subtraction. The Patsies and Fecals have proven that the team first philosophy is the best way to get to the top and stay there. Too bad nobody (except us Skins fans) seems to remember that it was Gibbs who pioneered this philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Very well put. I sincerely feel a lot more relieved, and understanding after reading what you had posted. Thank you, and may I add a congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaSkin Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Congrats and AMEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by Art Tomorrow my first child will likely be born. I ate a nice dinner tonight with the family, then left my in-laws to babysit my wife who's on bed rest while I went and played basketball. I got home, had a glass of water and a very cold Martini with three olives. I finished packing the hospital bag, got the comforter out of the dryer, and came into my office to take one last fleeting glance at Extremeskins before my life changed. My last look as a man with no child who's about to be gone for a while. And, what do I see? Coles to be released. I'm writing this here, in a stand alone thread because having read the current 13 page topic, a couple of thoughts came to me. One mentioned, astutely by Zoony, the other not mentioned in that thread, but which has been discussed in other threads. This year we long wondered what was wrong with the Gibbs offense. It just looked so much different than ever before. You never saw anything consistently look good. We know of some problems with Raymer and hit and miss play by Brown. We know of Rasby being released and perhaps our tight ends weren't, early, great blockers. We saw Brunell, and lived to tell about it. And, we have seen comments, especially since the end of the year, that seem to squarely blame the receivers for much of the surrounding problems we saw more clearly. Sacks not because of bad blocking in many cases, but incorrect routes. Incompletions for the same reason. Receivers not where they were supposed to be. In many ways we could ignore this as a REAL problem, because, after all, our starting receivers REMAINED our starting receivers. Though Gibbs CONSISTENLY went out of his way to praise Thrash as a TRUE Redskin who was "always where he's supposed to be," such comments were never really seen as the directed comments they clearly were given the offseason we see shaping up. While I expect Coles will only be released if the team feels it has the position of receiver completely covered and he WON'T be released if we don't feel we will strengthen the position, the potential release of Coles coupled with the allowance for Gardner to seek a trade tells you what Gibbs was saying about a guy like Thrash. He's where he's supposed to be, but he DOES NOT have your talent, Rod and Lav. Your talent with his professionalism ON the field, and everything will take off. This had to be the message. Many here have heard rumors about how unhappy Gardner and Coles were this year. One of the finest portions of Gibbs' return was keeping the team from having an open revolt we saw under Marty despite the unhappiness of the starting receivers, frustration from the starting runner, horrendous play of the starting QB (Brunell) COUPLED with the Gibbs learning curve in getting back into things. But, for yet another season, whole of the offense -- and team -- failed to measure up to the sum of its individual parts. Meanwhile, a funny thing happened defensively. The whole surpassed the collective parts. As Zoony mentioned in another thread, we've long been a team capable of underperforming with good, high performing and even star free agents. Gibbs was able to build a team here last time by getting everyone to buy into the concept of being a "Redskin". While NO ONE says Coles lacks talent or lacks work ethic or lacks desire, there's MORE to playing for Gibbs and being successful with Gibbs than that. There's a desire to be a part of it. It's an amazing thing we can even consider shedding a very fine receiver like Coles. As much of a message cut as Rasby was earlier, this is a thunderous cut in the locker room. You saw a PERFECT quote in the Post by an unnamed player. A player who loves Coles. A player who knows how tough he is. But, a player who stated if he doesn't want to be around, it's best he's not. That's NOT the atmosphere we've had here recently. The INMATES have long run the asylum here. Even under Marty, the players revolted and tuned him out and forced Marty to yield to them. Now, without a heavy hand, Gibbs seems to have connected well enough to get guys to respond to a SHOCKING possibility like this with the ABSOLUTE line that we all should care about right now. Gibbs only wants Redskins. Part of that definition is a player who wants to BE THAT. In the cap era to even CONSIDER a release like this is a tremendous thing. When we were speaking about adding Moss, I said he's a guy who'd improve us greatly, but, I didn't want, because I doubted he had THAT particular character point Gibbs would want to have around. Losing Coles and I know we have diminished talent on this team if it happens. We're WEAKER individually if it happens. But, the TEAM, may improve. If scrap heap players who peppered the defensive lineup most of the year can be where they are supposed to be and perform, then, hell, maybe Freddy Mitchell is a guy we actually could have here instead of Coles and KNOW we are weaker in the matchup while knowing at the same time we are BETTER in the equation. Coles, McCants, Gardner. Two starters and a guy who made us all dream big appear to be guys Gibbs feels he can't win with. You don't let Coles go if you don't feel you can win with him. And, as fine a player as Coles IS, we were 5-11 and 6-10 with him. He may not have fit HERE like he could elsewhere. If our record with him is what it has been, I don't fear the future without him, even while knowing I can't look at the receiver position and know we have a talented individual player capable of being a top player. When we've all wondered what was wrong with the offense this year, now, with a glaring divination, we know it was the receivers stupid. I hurt at the thought of a hard-working guy like Coles leaving. I really do. But, when I see comments from a number of people in the initial thread that our organization is a joke for considering a move like this, I have to say, for maybe the first time in 14 years, we're not a joke, because, we can consider a move like this. We finally have the STRENGTH of conviction leading us that ALLOWS a shocking, powerful, scary move like this to even be contemplated. Lavar Arrington saw the defense perform without him this year. But, the charges of the coaching staff to the receivers about not being where they were supposed to be so often can often be heard levied at Arrington. Arrington SAW Marshall simply do his job and the defense did well. That, alone, might have inspired Arrington to emulate Marshall next year and play a rigid game, devoted to his assignments. But, now that he sees a top starter like Coles being possibly allowed to depart for doing something HE has long been associated with, he knows there is no safety in simply being a dynamic player. It takes stones to even consider letting Coles go, whether we ultimately do it or not. For the first time in years, our organization will do something that is in the best interests of the organization, even if that is FELT -- rightly or wrongly -- to be releasing a player who is clearly our top receiver. I think with this article, the joke we may have been stopped being so funny. And that may bring the biggest smile of all. Mazel Tov!!!!! and great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.