B&G Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Bubba, be a man and admit that you have been wrong about Ramsey and Gibbs. If you can't see the difference in our offense with Ramsey in there, you are what Joe Gibbs has been...just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 a 3-6 team that is headed nowhere in 2004 SHOULD be getting younger players such as Ramsey and McCants on the field for our coaching staff to work with them and develop them, that is the only way we are going to improve for too long people have looked toward next year's free agency to solve all of our problems. all the talk about Drew Brees is evidence of that. just for once it might be nice to see some homegrown talent developed so it can excel. I would rather see these players grow into true contributors and future core performers and go 5-11 again than continue to depend upon veterans who haven't shown they can get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSKN5 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I also think that if we were not down 17 points when Ramsey came into the game he may not have made some of those bad throws... one because if we had been in the game at all at that point Portis would have been running the ball twice as much as he did... and two we wouldnt have had to throw down the field as much...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Is there any other way Bulldog? I mean Brunell is a perfect example, and I can understand making a decision to start a person and stand behind them, But at this point, Brunell does nothing to help you win....he's horrible. Put Ramsey in there and let the team play with fire instead of fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by Oldskool bubba this is really sad man.. You cant even see the truth anymore. How the hell is Ramsey supposed to win a game when Gibbs wont run the ball? It doesnt matter when the Bengals went into prevent. When you only run the ball 17 times, your QB hasnt even played a full game this year, not practiced with the 1st team offense more than 10% of the time, your asking for trouble. The offense is fine. 90% of the offensive woes were Brunell's fault. Like it or not. By the end of the year, I will be proven right. Bookmark it. Amen, Oldskool. Ramsey has come in twice having to overcome big leads, and the defense has known both times that we had to throw! What do you expect? Give Ramsey all the reps in practice, get his timing down with the WR's, and start the game off with a balanced attack, and RAMSEY WILL DELIVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 You guys are full of ****. period, spin all you want, but the facts is still the same the offense in general suck. Ramsey or Brunell. does anyone remember 6-19 65 yards???? I am not bashing Ramsey.. I am stating facts. The problems are still the same. The OL is not blocking, and the WR are not making plays. and the offense didn't move the ball until the bengals ( a weak defense) started playing off and stopped blitzing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 here's what I don't understand. people defending the continued play of Brunell, Gardner and others said the offense had a number of problems and individual changes wouldn't be that determinative. if changing players who are not performing is not the answer and continued playing time doesn't result in improvement, then what IS the answer? :laugh: At some point you have to get production from the players on the field or replace them We aren't going to replace Portis because he is productive. But we can look at Brunell and say Rod Gardner who again dropped a number of balls and question whether we might have other players that are deserving of a chance to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_1972 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by Jake01Frontier I also think that if we were not down 17 points when Ramsey came into the game he may not have made some of those bad throws... one because if we had been in the game at all at that point Portis would have been running the ball twice as much as he did... and two we wouldnt have had to throw down the field as much...... DING! DING! DING! That paucity of run plays plus the lack of reps with the first string squad is precisely what could explain Ramsey's "lackluster" performance coming off the bench. Now I didn't see the game live, but followed the stat lines online and it looked like Ramsey struggled early on. But then, he got in a rhythm and I think, based on what I'm hearing, the offensive players responded to him and were able to make plays down the field in the last 2 drives. For all the Brunell apologists, if you are still bold enough to rear your heads, at least he passed for more than 59 yards this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I don't know..Ramsey had more TD to INT ratio the last 2 previous seasons under Spurrier...so I chalk it up to pressure myself. as the game wore on he got better and better IMHO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncSKIN Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 1 for 8 is not going to get it done, with or without interceptions. It was time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by bulldog here's what I don't understand. people defending the continued play of Brunell, Gardner and others said the offense had a number of problems and individual changes wouldn't be that determinative. if changing players who are not performing is not the answer and continued playing time doesn't result in improvement, then what IS the answer? :laugh: At some point you have to get production from the players on the field or replace them We aren't going to replace Portis because he is productive. But we can look at Brunell and say Rod Gardner who again dropped a number of balls and question whether we might have other players that are deserving of a chance to play. Because that is not what I am saying. I am saying that the PROBLEM is the entire offense. Ramsey or Brunell... they both have it against them while the OL is giving up sacks and pressure. You have to have time to throw the ball... but the Skins had hardly any time until the Bengals stop sending a bunch of rushers. The WR are not getting time to get open, or making plays to get open regularly. And when they do get open they drop too many passes.... didn't anybody watch the game??? add in a bunch of costly penalties Why don't you Gibbs bashers step up and admit that you where wrong, that Joe Gibbs knew what he was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanatic Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by bulldog a 3-6 team that is headed nowhere in 2004 SHOULD be getting younger players such as Ramsey and McCants on the field for our coaching staff to work with them and develop them, that is the only way we are going to improve for too long people have looked toward next year's free agency to solve all of our problems. all the talk about Drew Brees is evidence of that. just for once it might be nice to see some homegrown talent developed so it can excel. I would rather see these players grow into true contributors and future core performers and go 5-11 again than continue to depend upon veterans who haven't shown they can get the job done. The clouds part, the sun begins to shine and the minions rejoice!. Excellent post. Please proceed to the end of the hall and pick up your Joe Banner graduation certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&G Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 No, Bubba, it was 6-17 and 57 yards....oh, sorry those are Brunell's stats for the game before this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins420 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Although I couldn't watch the game, you have to remember that Ramsey came in down 17 and has been working all year with the scout team. I for one am relieved that we finally have Ramsey and hope that all of this trade talk is just a load of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six4g Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Patrick Ramsey. An absolute class guy! Check out what he said during the post game interviews. Goes out of his way to support Brunnell and Gibbs decision to keep him on the bench until this point. Gives his teammates the credit where its due. Kids a leader. Welcome back PAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwall-2 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I hope Ramsey leads us to the promise land,don't get me wrong,but for all you people saying he came in cold,he won't be cold next week,when he probably starts.What's gonna be the excuse?That they're playing on the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by B&G No, Bubba, it was 6-17 and 57 yards....oh, sorry those are Brunell's stats for the game before this one. yep and he had the same problems no blocking under achieving WR penalties and until those problems are solved, the offense is still going to struggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 Because that is not what I am saying. I am saying that the PROBLEM is the entire offense. Ramsey or Brunell... they both have it against them while the OL is giving up sacks and pressure. You have to have time to throw the ball... but the Skins had hardly any time until the Bengals stop sending a bunch of rushers. The WR are not getting time to get open, or making plays to get open regularly. And when they do get open they drop too many passes.... didn't anybody watch the game??? add in a bunch of costly penalties Why don't you Gibbs bashers step up and admit that you where wrong, that Joe Gibbs knew what he was talking about. Step up for what. Gibbs was wrong about D-Mac and he's wrong about Brunell. If the offense moves, we have a chance to win. With Ramsey, it is possible that the offense will move. Also, what happened to the running game today? Portis was killing them. There was no need to abandon the run so quickly. Ramsey should not have had to attempt 37 passes in this game. Esp. considering he didn't even play the first quarter. Overall, this season has been horrible offensive coaching. No discipline, and lack of just about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by bird_1972 For all the Brunell apologists, if you are still bold enough to rear your heads, at least he passed for more than 59 yards this week. Again No one was a Brunell "apologist" , what almost ever one was doing was defending Joe Gibbs. who was saying rightfully so, that it wasn't all Brunell's fault. Ramsey's numbers were just as bad at one point 6-19 65 yards.. because he had to deal with the same problems as Brunell. Blocking, underachieving WR, and penalties. and finally show some class, your opini9on might be respected more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBChick Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 You guys are full of ****. period, spin all you want, but the facts is still the same the offense in general suck. Ramsey or Brunell. does anyone remember 6-19 65 yards???? I am not bashing Ramsey.. I am stating facts. The problems are still the same. The OL is not blocking, and the WR are not making plays. and the offense didn't move the ball until the bengals ( a weak defense) started playing off and stopped blitzing. Here! Here Bubba! There is no way you guys can sit here and say the Gibbs supports were all wrong, not when in the same thread where you are making excuses for Ramsey. I'm not even saying the excuses aren't valid, maybe they are. But the fact of the matter is the O-line couldn't cut it until the bengals moved into a prevent. Ramsey got sacked twice (or was it three times), and hurried on too many plays. The receivers are still dropping more passes then catching them and still not getting seperation from the CBs on the deep routes. There are serious problems on the offense as a whole and I doubt we are going to become a serious pass threat overnite just because Ramsey came in. Now I'm all for Ramsey coming in and I agree Bulldog that now is the time to start figuring out the future, but changes have been made. Can we say TE Royal? Gibbs is just not willing to shake it all up all at once. It will be slowly trying some things out and this game was the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 It is not Ramsey, it is the entire offense. That is what Gibbs, and a bunch of us have been saying. The OL is not giving the QB time to throw, The WR are not getting open, and when they do they drop to many passes. Then add in all those penalties.... well what do you expect. And most of Ramsey yards came when the Bengals stopped blitzing and went prevent. unless the rest of the offense steps up.. the results will be the same. Bubba, give me a break...yes, a lot of the offense is bad---but did you see what happened when we took Gardner out, but McCants in and let Ramsey throw? DID you see what we looked like with Boonell in? This offense disaster is ALL Gibb's fault at this point: personal changes were made today that should have been made 5 weeks ago! It's a damn disgrace that our record is what it is and Ramsey was on the bench this whole time. If Gibbs was willing to pull Brunell today, he should have pulled him weeks ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedwitch Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 Again No one was a Brunell "apologist" , what almost ever one was doing was defending Joe Gibbs. who was saying rightfully so, that it wasn't all Brunell's fault. Ramsey's numbers were just as bad at one point 6-19 65 yards.. because he had to deal with the same problems as Brunell. Blocking, underachieving WR, and penalties. and finally show some class, your opini9on might be respected more I absolutely agree that the entire offense is having prblems. But Ramsey achieved this without practicing with the starters on a consistent basis and against a better D. So overall, even with the OL and WR problems, Ramsey played much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Yes, it wasn't all Brunell's fault, BUT with Ramsey in, one problem is addressed - the ball will be there for the receivers. - That was not the case with Brunell. -Second problem addressed - the opponents won't be camped out at the line of scrimmage waiting for Clinton Portis or a 3 yard pass - the offenseive play calling now has options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by Art Gibbs was defending Brunell for most of the year with comments that Brunell has prevented a lot of negative plays against us with his play. Combine what Ramsey did against the Giants with today and you know what Gibbs means. There were seven balls that should have been intercepted by the Bengals as the passes were right in a defensive backs hands. A couple of the passes don't look like Ramsey throwing them, in that they are such terrible, flat, awful passes and Ramsey hasn't really been prone to those types of interceptions for two years. What Ramsey does provide is something of a passing threat. If Gibbs could get him to NOT make those awful throws, that would be great. Gibbs probably can't teach him to read a zone blitz anytime soon, but, if the terrible dangerous throw is stopped, that alone would be an improvement. Honestly, with Brunell in you may not have had the terrible risky toss with the frequency you see from Ramsey, but, you never felt you had a chance. Ramsey gives you some sort of chance. When he gets hot he looks pretty good. Gibbs has an interesting choice now. I think you have to stay with Ramsey for now, but, the types of throws he made today that were constantly square in the defensive players hands will make it hard for anyone to say he HAS to stay in. I give credit to Williams for again finding a solution on defense when they had it going and shutting it down in the second half as the Bengals kept working it. Sean Taylor had a couple of hits in this game that were quite inspiring. But, this game is really about a struggling, dismal offense that can't seem to get anything going. Ramsey had SOME moments, but even in that, we make a play, then drop a pass, then make a play, then have a silly -- or imaginary -- penalty called. With hope, Ramsey can make the corrections he needs to make to limit some of the negatives. If so, at least you'll see things looking like they are going in the right direction. Right now, offensively, things still look so confused and hopeless. You know Art, the only reason you can even "break this down" for me is that #11 actually played the position of qb reasonably enough to give you visual evidence to actually comment on. UNLIKE BRUNELL! Given time Patrick may get better, blah, blah, blah! No kiddin. NOW WE'LL FIND OUT! IT'S ABOUT TIME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garg8050 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 My hope for the rest of the season is that our offense, and in fact, our whole team takes on the persona of the Steelers. Good tough defense, strong running game and a young QB who can take some shots down the field. I fully expect Portis to get 30-35 carries against the Eagles next week (assuming we're not down by 14 or 20). I think Ramsey will probably throw the ball 18-21 times and we'll try to win the game 17-14 or 13-10. I don't think Ramsey is ready to carry the offense on his shoulders, much like Rothliesberger is not ready to carry the offense. Right now, Rothliesberger is making just enough plays in the passing game to keep drives going and keep the defense honest. Listen, I don't like saying bad things about any Redskins' player, but there was never a clearer difference between our two QB's than a 3rd and 11 play in the 2nd half. Ramsey was able to fire the ball to the sideline to Coles for a 1st down and keep a drive going. I just don't think Brunell could have made that throw. The ability to make the occasional 3rd and long will keep drives going, keep Portis in the game and keep our defense fresh. Let's hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.