MonkeySkin Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by Om No. To be a "bust," you need to have had 1) universal acclaim to begin with, and 2) enough time to build a reasonable body of work upon which to make make an informed decision. Betts has had neither. Bust = BS. He was a 2nd round pick and was supposed to take over when Davis left. The guy has done NOTHING since he's been here. Kenny Watson is better than Betts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wskin44 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I loved Kenny Watson. I think that Rock is a keeper. Betts had better show somebody something this year or his time will be up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I'm a big fan of Betts. His vision, hands, and initial burst to and through the hole is very impressive. He's got very underrated quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Reading through this thread, I see two words over and over..."if healthy". Betts seems to have a talent for being in the wrong place at the wrong time on the playing field and that is not good. I agree he has talent and could be a good starter for someone if he could go 14 to 16 games a season. Likely he is a 1200 yard back if he could do that. I hope he can do that but right now his history does not support this conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I personally don't even understand why Betts is still on the team. It's just weird to me how some players end up hanging around some how... Cough...Renaldo Wynn...cough. And also, I really believe Betts is the type of player that MIGHT have one good season, get a big pay check, then get hurt again and again and again, etc... To me, Betts is no different than Cliff Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIBBS LIVES Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Look at the stats before he got hurt. Also..you'll see that trung whipped Betts in yards per carry too. All I hear and see are excuses for this guy because he was a second round pick. This guy hasn't done jack to deserve any time in the backfield. As a back-up or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 While I know this has NOTHING to do with real life, I just want to say that I have just as much success with Betts as I do with Portis in Madden 2004. Just thought I'd toss that piece of abslolute nothing into your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by Chachie While I know this has NOTHING to do with real life, I just want to say that I have just as much success with Betts as I do with Portis in Madden 2004. Just thought I'd toss that piece of abslolute nothing into your thread. You should try to play with injuries ON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I think we all know why Wynn is on the roster---could we be any thinner at D-line? That is far and away our achillies heel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by skins4eva I think we all know why Wynn is on the roster---could we be any thinner at D-line? That is far and away our achillies heel That explains it this year, but what about the previous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydshobob Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I don't know if he's any good or not but I do know we didn't see what Stephen Davis was capable of until he had been in the league 4 years. I remember the coaches, or maybe Davis himself, saying he had to learn to stay low and hit holes a certain way. After his first 3 years, who actually thought he was going to become what he's become? NOBODY. In fact, just about everybody figured Skip Hicks would be the starter in 99. If Byner says he's got talent, that's good enough for me. Let's see what happens. FWIW, Davis' first 4 years: 1996 Washington Redskins 23 139 6.0 2 1997 Washington Redskins 141 567 4.0 3 1998 Washington Redskins 34 109 3.2 0 1999 Washington Redskins 290 1405 4.8 17 Bett's first 2 years: 2002 Washington Redskins 65 307 4.7 1 2003 Washington Redskins 77 255 3.3 2 No, I'm not suggesting Betts is the next Stephen Davis. Just food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Couple of you are pretty heavy anti-Betts guys. Thing is, in support of that position, all you've offered in support is opinion stated as fact: "Watson is better ..." "This guy hasn't done jack to deserve any time in the backfield. As a back-up or otherwise." Guess some of us happen to have seen the same stats, the same performances, and come away, at the very least, with reason to think a healthy Betts is a guy who is an ideal backup to Portis heading into the season. That's all we've said. Oh, and Byner and Doc Walker agree. For what that's worth. But let's by all means go with "Betts = Bust." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big z Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 this is the year to judge running talents....not by that crap offense we've been running with spurrier....davis put up pathetic numbers in that offense.... betts only needs to carry the load in blowouts and the customary couple of games that portis is out.... and betts will have alot of help.... our running game is the least of our worries.... i wouldn't expect byner to put betts down though after only a couple days of practice....so i take his comments with a grain of salt....he needs to encourage and keep his guys motivated and he's doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Oh come on, big z, haven't you heard? Betts sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by skins4eva I agree completely--I also have always liked the look of sultan mcCullugh...i think he's a work in progress obviously, but a diamond in the rough...any thoughts on him? Sultan is intriguing. As I recall from last preseason, my concern with him is his lack of ability to break tackles. But he's certainly got quickness and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 anyone named sultan should get a chance to play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by Om Couple of you are pretty heavy anti-Betts guys. Thing is, in support of that position, all you've offered in support is opinion stated as fact: "Watson is better ..." "This guy hasn't done jack to deserve any time in the backfield. As a back-up or otherwise." Guess some of us happen to have seen the same stats, the same performances, and come away, at the very least, with reason to think a healthy Betts is a guy who is an ideal backup to Portis heading into the season. That's all we've said. Oh, and Byner and Doc Walker agree. For what that's worth. But let's by all means go with "Betts = Bust." It isn't that I am anti-Betts. I am anti "if" and tired of excuses. Lots of history changes when you use "if". If Riggins had not sat out that one season he could have another 1000 yards and be higher on the all-time rushing list. If Spurrier had run the ball more in the 4th quarter last year we could have won 4 or 5 more games. If we had not botched the snap on the extra point in TB years ago Norv would have won two playoff games. If Bo Jackson had not hurt his hip he might have been the greatest back in NFL history. See what I mean? Right now Betts stats support the idea that he could be a real talent in this league...wait for it...if he stays healthy. I would love for him to have 400+ yards with a 5.0 ypc average in relief of Portis this year. However, by looking at the injury frequency over the last 2 years, which I think you have to consider as long as you are also considering the stats from those years, I just don't see it happening. That is all I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Skins should have never gone after Trung..IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I think it's hard to make a fair judgement on Betts, or any of our RB's from last year, b/c of that lame arse offense they were in. I also think it's too soon to say he is injury prone b/c I believe he missed most of his time b/c of a broken forearm which is kind of an uncommon injury, and takes a long time to heal. I was at the Atlanta game last year with a very good view of the field. Trung got the start in that game, but both Trung and Betts were trying to play hurt. They actually both ended up reinjurying themsleves. I was screaming for them to put in Betts, b/c Trung looked very weak and indecisive in his early carries. Betts got in and made 2 or 3 carries before he reinjured his arm, but on those few carries he hit the hole with a ton more authority than Trung. The difference was like night and day. I know a few carries doesn't mean jack, but in that game he looked like he could be a real bruiser. I also have a feeling, and I've said it here before, that Betts is going to see a lot more action this season than most of us think. Of course Portis is the starter, but Gibbs isn't going to wear him down with 30 carries a game, and I could see Betts getting a good 6 to 10 carries a game. Gibbs always rotates in his backs, and Morton and Rock will get some carries and screens too. I also think that if Betts can consistently hit the hole hard, like he did in those few carries in the Atlanta game, he could be very productive in this offense. Of course, as little as we've seen him, Betts could turn out to be a bust, but for now I'll go with Earnest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by Neophyte It isn't that I am anti-Betts. I am anti "if" and tired of excuses. Lots of history changes when you use "if". If Riggins had not sat out that one season he could have another 1000 yards and be higher on the all-time rushing list. If Spurrier had run the ball more in the 4th quarter last year we could have won 4 or 5 more games. If we had not botched the snap on the extra point in TB years ago Norv would have won two playoff games. If Bo Jackson had not hurt his hip he might have been the greatest back in NFL history. See what I mean? Right now Betts stats support the idea that he could be a real talent in this league...wait for it...if he stays healthy. I would love for him to have 400+ yards with a 5.0 ypc average in relief of Portis this year. However, by looking at the injury frequency over the last 2 years, which I think you have to consider as long as you are also considering the stats from those years, I just don't see it happening. That is all I am saying. And that's perfectly fair. His injury history has to be a concern, and it is one for me as well. I just happen to think I've seen enough promise from the man when he has been healthy (and let's not forget, we're talking about a guy just two seasons into his career) to make him 1) a good candidate to back up Portis, and 2) NOT a guy it's fair to call a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 And I can agree with that. It takes several years, often a whole career in the NFL, to be officially a bust. When I think of Redskin busts, I think of Schuler, Westbrook and Andre Johnson. Betts has been a steal compared to 2 of those 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey66 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by MonkeySkin You should try to play with injuries ON. :laugh: Whats the deal with K Watson? Did he ever sign with Cincinnati? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by Yusuf06 I agree with you guys about Betts. He reminds me of Stephen Davis just with a bit more elusiveness. The only problem is he's a guy who can't stay healthy. Kind of like Davis... Betts should be our #2 RB after camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Last season Stats for Games Ladel played (compared to Trung ), as you can see not bad until he gets injured in Philly. and Ladell can catch the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by Om I suspect a lot of people will chime in on this, but what the heck. I've been a Betts guy since he was drafted. Had we not gotten Portis, I think he would realistically have projected to be a 1100-yard back who could, along with the other backs on the team, have provided quality work at RB. Matter of fact, it's not a stretch at all for me to envision him being a very similar back to Byner's Redskin incarnation himself. As a backup RB---a change of pace and depth guy---I think he's a damn good asset to this team. Seeing him do well will not be a surprise to me at all. I agree. I thought this guy would take over for Trung last year, but he got hurt. I hope he can stay healthy. We can use him like Gerald Riggs in 1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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