New Taxes

[gbear]

My tax plan:

repeal all Bush tax cuts. I need the revenue short term, and getting new taxes is hard as heck. The only way to do it politically is to repeal them all.

Social security...it's pay as you go...I can't convert without a huge money supply to cover those already "invested," and this inability gets worse the closer we get to the baby boomers retirement en mass. So here's what I do: Social security was meant to be a safety net for the few...not a public highway. I return it to that. I reduce the benefits by $1 for every $2 made above 150% of the poverty line. This should reduce the money needed. Since it is a pay as you go system...I would bank the rest towoards a switch from a pay as you go system to an individual investment plan. The switch comes when you can afford benefits for those who have reitred and will retire in the nex 5-10 years. You then offer step downs like if you were t oretire in 11 to 15 years, you get X percentage not from your personal account.

Medicare: leave alone...consider repeal of drug benefit. I don't know if that's possible though (politically popular). I would consider universal healthcare. I'd look at what really happened when we privatized part of medicare t osee if we as a society are really paying more with privitized healthcare. We did pay more when we privitized parts of medicare a few years ago. Given that we have medicaid...I wonder if the same thing is happening with the rest of society. Preferred option...only cover catastrophic public insurance.

Spending: Freeze spending adjusted for inflation. You want something new...cut something (outside of changes above).

Debt relief: I repealed the tax cut, because it will speed up debt repayment. This in turn should lead to lower interest payements long term. The last time I looked, I think they run around about 12% of our budget. When I get it down to 10%, I cut taxes by 2%. When I get to 5%, I cut taxes to maintain 5% debt. Some debt is good. It gives us safe bonds, and helps our dollar. This is very true if our fiscal policy is seen as "responsible" by outside investors.

[The Wicked Wop]

Drakkim,

The difference in how many you claim will affect how much withholding comes out of your check. Usually 1 is just about right if your single. The main goal in figuring withholdoings is to not owe, and not to get a refund. All a refund means is that you paid to much during the year. People instintivly get excited when they get a refund, but all it ment was that the government was using your money interest free for a good part of the year.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Art

As usual, JB, when you post, the world yawns at the inconsequential words you bring. And when you pretend to have some secret insight that no one else knows because of your well-placed sources, well, you just come off looking like a tool. I know you don't mind that. But, if on some level that disturbs you, you ought to consider some mild stylistic change.

Art why do you think these companies that run these accounts are making so much money?? There is a reason and it involves some of the money you put in it.

If you think all these fund managers and companies are just playing by the rules then you are more ignorant then I have ever thought. Why do you think one of the biggest companies involved was slammed early. There have been investigations going on and are continuing as we speak.

I don't have any secret insight just understand a lot more about how these plans really work.

[Cskin]

Careful Art... you're throwing a big ole' monkey wrench in the current Federal welfare philosophy.

"What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine"

Furthermore, I think there are people much smarter than you and I that know how better to take your money and redistribute it to those "less fortunate" who don't have to qualify for it. You'll just have to trust them... the federal govt. that is.... to do the right thing..... and resist the temptation to cabbage under to electoral pressure and give your hard earned money to those "less fortunate" in order to maintain their vote and stay in power.

[Art]

Originally posted by jbooma

Art why do you think these companies that run these accounts are making so much money?? There is a reason and it involves some of the money you put in it.

If you think all these fund managers and companies are just playing by the rules then you are more ignorant then I have ever thought. Why do you think one of the biggest companies involved was slammed early. There have been investigations going on and are continuing as we speak.

I don't have any secret insight just understand a lot more about how these plans really work.

JB,

Some companies, do, yes, force you to put the money they match into their corporate stock. This is right, proper, reasonable and critically important for some businesses. Afterall, it's FREE money to you. Why shouldn't they get some benefit. It's the same principle as having citizens put money in individual social security accounts but having that money invested in government bonds. It gives cash to the business -- in this case the government -- to cover short term goals and, with hope, grow the business and/or fund necessary programs.

If the stock crashes? So what. It's STILL FREE MONEY. It should be illegal to force an employee to put his own money into the company stock, and guess what? It is. However, if the company gives you discount rates and you think that's your best bet and you don't diversify, well, you better know a good church or charity because you're going to be one hungry dope.

As for fund scandals where big partners got some trading benefits, ultimately, is a problem to some degree. It's just not a show-stopping one.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Art

As for fund scandals where big partners got some trading benefits, ultimately, is a problem to some degree. It's just not a show-stopping one.

You have not been paying attention I see then. That little scandal you are talking about has killed one of the premier company's reputations.

I am also talking about fees that many people don't realize they are paying.

Everything else you said is correct.

[Thiebear]

I have 4 different caps that I pay into 20 20 30 30 %

My company matches 15%

CIGNA LIFETIME30

GUARANTEED LONG-TERM

OPPENHEIMER GLOBAL-CL A

SMALL CAP GROWTH/GRANAHAN

I don't see the company conspiracy there?

[Thiebear]

pssst, the company i work for is: (Canadian)

[Riggo-toni]

Originally posted by Thiebear

pssst, the company i work for is: (Canadian)

So, does that mean they make deals with terro.... uh, nevermind, it was only gonna be a joke, but I can't bring myself to do it

[jbooma]

Originally posted by riggo-toni

So, does that mean they make deals with terro.... uh, nevermind, it was only gonna be a joke, but I can't bring myself to do it

pleast post in the correct thread :laugh:

[Thiebear]

the good ole days of lookin back and laughin....

good times they were.. yep yep...

(thank goodness you got that, didnt want to waste it)...

[Ignatius J.]

as far as taxes go, I think that estate taxes ought to be more up the yin yang.

And I say this as someone who makes about 18,000 a year who has a potentially VERY large sum of money coming to me, depending on how a will gets sorted out. When I heard that I might be getting some cash, I couldn't believe it. I did absolutely nothing to get this money. If there was any portion of income that I feel Uncle sam could take %70 of without ruining my day, this would be it.

[The Wicked Wop]

Your right Jbooma, there would have to be some major reform and extensive oversight into how 401k's and mutual funds are managed before such an idea could take flight.

[Art]

Originally posted by Ignatius J.

as far as taxes go, I think that estate taxes ought to be more up the yin yang.

And I say this as someone who makes about 18,000 a year who has a potentially VERY large sum of money coming to me, depending on how a will gets sorted out. When I heard that I might be getting some cash, I couldn't believe it. I did absolutely nothing to get this money. If there was any portion of income that I feel Uncle sam could take %70 of without ruining my day, this would be it.

We are greatly fortunate that in this country the fundamental goal of providing for one's family still means something to the majority of people, where it does not for you. I'm certain those who have you in their will worked to assure you had some comfort in their death by being provided for and able to be safe.

You think the government should take this money. That's outstanding. Then give it. I will send you the address of the appropriate IRS department. You can send the 70 percent in as extra tax tot he IRS. This is your right.

Will you live to your ideals? Or just wait for the government to tax the family of someone else later while you keep the money you are due?

[jbooma]

Originally posted by The Wicked Wop

Your right Jbooma, there would have to be some major reform and extensive oversight into how 401k's and mutual funds are managed before such an idea could take flight.

getting that done would take the same power to reform medicare :doh:

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Ignatius J.

If there was any portion of income that I feel Uncle sam could take %70 of without ruining my day, this would be it.

Don't worry you will get taxed on that (at least I think), just don't know how much.

What I do recommend is use that for a good cause, a home, school, etc... Whenever you get money from another family member you were not expecting use it for something that will help you not a luxury.

If you do want to give some back, don't give it to the government give it to a charity of some sort that will help.

[The Wicked Wop]

Ig, are you saying that estate taxes should be taxed the hell out of......if so this is just a stupid premise. Fact is that money was taxed, maybe not in your hands, but it was earned income and taxed accordingly, now simply because its given to you it should be taxed again......I mean Jesus, say that money was earned through dividends, it would mean that the money would be taxed 3 times. If you ever get into political office, or work for the IRS, give me a call.........I know then its time to leave the country.

[NavyDave]

I love Art's ideas.

You sure you aren't a long lost brother?

[jbooma]

Originally posted by NavyDave

I love Art's ideas.

You sure you aren't a long lost brother?

We need to have a Tailgate picnic. Invite all the exteme lefts and rights and see if anyone of them ever touch their food :laugh: (for eating purposes)

[luckydevil]

Riggo for President

[Riggo-toni]

Originally posted by luckydevil

Riggo for President

Thank you

[Die Hard]

Art, I'm pretty sure you've lived a privileged life from childhood.

And as a republican/conservative... there's nothing wrong with that.

I would simply expect a little more humility and understanding.... that you've been given a bit of a head start over most people. And not from anything you've done or deserved... but rather circumstance.

And while we're at it.... let's also acknowledge that wealth isn't always directly attributable to "hard work" and "merit". In fact, it's more than likely less than common.

We can't all marry lawyers ya know

[atloldskin]

Art, I think the companies should continue to match social security and these funds would go towards social security benefits for the elderly and for anyone electing to stay in the system that are 55 and older. Everyone else would see their dollars go into their own retirement accounts, which could also be inherited by the next generation at death. The payroll tax would also be cut, giving all working Americans that are on "the books" a tax break.

Second, I would raise the gasoline tax and have a small federal sales tax to capture the "underground economy".

Third, I would lower the current tax rates and eliminate most tax deductions in an effort to streamline and simplify the system. I would retain deductions for charities and cap home mortgage interest expense.

By the way, I am a leading tax partner and this would probably cost me dearly in terms of income!

[Art]

Originally posted by Die Hard

Art, I'm pretty sure you've lived a privileged life from childhood.

And as a republican/conservative... there's nothing wrong with that.

I would simply expect a little more humility and understanding.... that you've been given a bit of a head start over most people. And not from anything you've done or deserved... but rather circumstance.

And while we're at it.... let's also acknowledge that wealth isn't always directly attributable to "hard work" and "merit". In fact, it's more than likely less than common.

We can't all marry lawyers ya know

Well, DH, you would think wrong. I was born in Detroit. I lived in the slums and deep in the inner city with my parents, who fled with me when I started walking with a jive limp and asking for collared greens every night at dinner. We moved from there to Alexandria proper. Hardly the fanciest area. Not Old Town mind you.

My father worked for the Department of Labor. My mother didn't work at all until I was 10 when she took a job as a nurse. My father's family still lives in Alpena, MI. They are farmers, nurses, truckers. My mother's family is a bit more spread out, but one was a minimum wage placement editor for ads at a small, local newspaper. One works at Wal-Mart in Tennessee and lives in a 750 square foot house. My grandmother died with $16,000 to her name and a house she'd lived in for 40 years that sold for $22,000.

The family portrait I'm giving you is certainly not one of the privileged, is it?

I know you've been taught by liberals that those who are conservative all were born with maids and pampered from a young age. But, I thought YOU of all people were capable of seeing through this fairy tale told to make liberals feel better about taking money from those better off and would realize that one's belief structure as a conservative can come from a life without great privilege.

I am horrified to see you perpetuate the myth by making ignorant presumptions about my pampered youth but I'm more disturbed seeing you put forth the other catchy liberal belief that being well off doesn't come from working hard at all and has little to do with merit. Man, this is sad on levels I can not adequately put into words.

Seeing this from you puts you in a very unflattering light.

But, if it makes you feel better, my father farmed his way through high school in Alpena with his brother and six sisters. Fun for them was throwing crab apples at cars driving down a lonely country road. A passion he gave to me in our neighborhood when we finally made it and exploded big time into privilege by moving to a better part of Alexandria off ritzy Telegraph Road.

We never owned a new car. Never had a television bigger than 13 inches until I bought one for him. He was allowed one new outfit a year growing up, so wealthy was the family. Of course, he only got that because he was the older brother. Kel got his hand me downs, and a new outfit, without fail, every time he moved to a different school.

My father dug up an old belt buckle from some person or family that owned the farm before we did. He was four. He cleaned it up and cherished that. He made grandpa Art buy him a cowboy hat to go with his cowboy belt buckle. And for three years he wouldn't let anyone call him Ken. He was Buckle Pete Joe. Cowboy. That was the only toy anyone recalls him ever having as a child.

My father took a work study to go to school at Michigan. The first of the family to attend college. Actually, he's the ONLY member of the family to attend college and graduate. He worked full time and studied the rest. He married the first woman he ever loved and had sex with and they had me and got married. And he worked, and went to law school at Wayne State because he couldn't afford Michigan anymore.

He made a hospital administrator weep when my sister was born because a nurse gave me a lollipop and charged $2 for it on the hospital bill. He was so flush, but just got off on arguing with the hospital about how outrageous that was considering he could have bought 100 dum dums for that.

He refused jobs at law firms because he felt a call to help people less fortunate than he so he took a job at the Department of Labor in the Office of Civil Rights and helped people. Since I'm apparently one of the lucky ones in this world, I hope this story is one that paints a family from old money. I mean. That's the only place a conservative could come from afterall.

I had the greatest childhood and father ever. There was no greater privilege than that. I'm just glad he was handed everything to make life so easy.

[Art]

Originally posted by atloldskin

Art, I think the companies should continue to match social security and these funds would go towards social security benefits for the elderly and for anyone electing to stay in the system that are 55 and older. Everyone else would see their dollars go into their own retirement accounts, which could also be inherited by the next generation at death. The payroll tax would also be cut, giving all working Americans that are on "the books" a tax break.

Second, I would raise the gasoline tax and have a small federal sales tax to capture the "underground economy".

Third, I would lower the current tax rates and eliminate most tax deductions in an effort to streamline and simplify the system. I would retain deductions for charities and cap home mortgage interest expense.

By the way, I am a leading tax partner and this would probably cost me dearly in terms of income!

Atl,

It's a free country. If you felt that was your obligation, then you should do that even if it wasn't required of you. The fact, though, is you'd do more benefit for people by giving them that money in a 401K so it actually earns interest. The elderly would be covered by the influx of government bonds.

As for raising the gasoline tax, I think it's a fine idea since we don't pay enough here anyway and that would be a way to get a little more in an indirect way. Of course, you'd think the world was going to explode by the gas prices we have now, so I'm not sure that would fly. Of course, I'm against any new taxes as a general statement since there's so much fat to cut from government first.