New Cowboys message board takes issue with Redskins possibly being better in '04.....

[turdfurguson]

Originally posted by PleaseBlitz

They really like to count on injuries in Dallas dont they.

That really isnt a good sign when your teams success depends on your competition having injuries.

Yeah Dallas fans? Counting on Brunell and Portis getting hurt? Well I hope Keyshawn dies.

****es.

Yawn... This is the third year in a row that the Redskins have the Best team a Superbowl contender blah blah ON PAPER! When will you learn that it does not matter how much your owner spends but how well your players perform. The hundred BILLION DOLLAR team has fallen short all too often and has settled for mediocrity! I don't care who you bring in it takes all the players on offense and defense to make it. Talk is cheap and I have heard this before so shudup and lets see what the Skins do. Because I say you got 2 years to put up or shut up. Because they throw away draft picks like they ain't nothing. How many they have this year? How many next year? Nuff said. Your high dollar team is under pressure to make it to the playoffs. So bump your gums if you must but this year may be like last year....

[RW31]

Originally posted by PleaseBlitz

They really like to count on injuries in Dallas dont they.

That really isnt a good sign when your teams success depends on your competition having injuries.

Yeah Dallas fans? Counting on Brunell and Portis getting hurt? Well I hope Keyshawn dies.

****es.

This post deserves a ban, but since your a redskins fan it won't happen...j/k:rolleyes:

Durability is something you factor when you are thinking of a player. Portis has been hurt in marginal carries, and brunnell has long been getting injured, it is likely they won't las the season...

[ArmchairRedskin]

Originally posted by turdfurguson

Yawn... This is the third year in a row that the Redskins have the Best team a Superbowl contender blah blah ON PAPER! When will you learn that it does not matter how much your owner spends but how well your players perform. The hundred BILLION DOLLAR team has fallen short all too often and has settled for mediocrity! I don't care who you bring in it takes all the players on offense and defense to make it. Talk is cheap and I have heard this before so shudup and lets see what the Skins do. Because I say you got 2 years to put up or shut up. Because they throw away draft picks like they ain't nothing. How many they have this year? How many next year? Nuff said. Your high dollar team is under pressure to make it to the playoffs. So bump your gums if you must but this year may be like last year....

In case you missed it, Joe Gibbs is back. He's here for FIVE years. He as recently as last week said he plans to honor the whole contract. He will even stay with the organization in some capacity after he finishes his head coach tenure. He's much too smart to only leave a 2 year window open. There is a plan in place. You're delusional if you think otherwise.

BTW, one winning season after 3 CONSECTUTIVE 5-11 seasons hardly gives any Cowboys fans the right to point at any one elses mediocrity.

[The Consigliere]

I'd have to doublecheck, but I do believe that Portis missed at least half of two other games w/injuries. He pi$$ed off quite a few fantasy owners last year (including your's truly, I drafted him as a rookie in a keeper league), then again he was healthy as a rook.

We've got our share of problems. Issues on the DL. No true #1 corner, and w/Springs, injury issues at one corner as well.

But the truth is, we've improved at QB, RB, along the OL, at Safety, and by leaps and bounds in the coaching department. The only area we've regressed at is corner. Contrary to expectations, we're at least a push at LB, where Trotter was a mess last season, and Washington should be better than the aging Armstead (who was actually far better than advertised when we brought him in). I have massive concerns about the DL, despite the improvements there, and concerns w/WR outside of Coles, and some concerns at Corner but the team should be much better next year. Dallas hasn't improved anywhere, and as mentioned were gifted two wins last year, and considering that I believe they didn't get the balance sheet of that (losing two games they should have one) perhaps the supposed balancing out happens this year. Regardless I think the East will sink a bit w/Dallas and Philly falling off, and Washington Climbing, but perhaps not quite fast enough this year.

I expect the division will be won by someone w/10 wins this year, it's anyone's guess who'll get it done though right now my bet's on Philly. I may change my tune depending on how Williams rectify's what I view as serious concerns when it comes to production from the DL, particularly at pass rushing. If he can camouflage and/or outright fix those problems I think Washington might actually catch both, but right now I still have Philly in 1st, w/Dallas and Washington duking it out for second and a possible, though unlikely, Wild Card.

[Golgo-13]

He just doesn't have the talent that BP had here last season. [/b]

I am dumbfounded at the utter stupidity of this statement...even from a Cowboy fan. Unbelieveable!

[The Consigliere]

The only statement from their board that really struck me as unreasonable for an opponents board was the Gibbs rip. That was just asinine. To suggest that Gibbs will barely be an improvement over Spurrier simply because he's been away from the game for a decade+ is ludicrous. The delusional writings of a complete jackarse, or someone who never saw a Gibbs coached team play.

Even if the game has passed him by, and I don't believe it has, he'll still be MILES better than Spurrier. Spurrier was Holtzian as an NFL Coach and worse yet, he brought his ineffectual minions to further weaken the cause. Gibbs on his worst day was better than half the coaches in the NFL when the league was filled with dynasties and proto-dynasties, and on an average day he's better than any other coach in the league, right now save Parcells who Gibbs is better than, when he's firing on all cylinders.

But other than that, what is there to quibble with? It's always annoying to read other fans postings which belittle our squad, and treat their own as champions, but nevertheless, this is what boards are about. Extremeskins no doubt reads exactly the same way to Dallas Message Board readers, i know it does to me, and I'm a Redskin fan, (though probably a bit of a cynical one compared to the majority around here). This is just the way it works, for most fans, they give their own the benefit of the doubt, and they don't give that same benefit for their opponents. It's what makes us sleep better at night until Sunday brings the light of the day, which is then either veiled, analyzed, or overly-embellished hours afterwards. That's just my view, anyway.

[turdfurguson]

Originally posted by The Consigliere

The only statement from their board that really struck me as unreasonable for an opponents board was the Gibbs rip. That was just asinine. To suggest that Gibbs will barely be an improvement over Spurrier simply because he's been away from the game for a decade+ is ludicrous. The delusional writings of a complete jackarse, or someone who never saw a Gibbs coached team play.

Even if the game has passed him by, and I don't believe it has, he'll still be MILES better than Spurrier. Spurrier was Holtzian as an NFL Coach and worse yet, he brought his ineffectual minions to further weaken the cause. Gibbs on his worst day was better than half the coaches in the NFL when the league was filled with dynasties and proto-dynasties, and on an average day he's better than any other coach in the league, right now save Parcells who Gibbs is better than, when he's firing on all cylinders.

But other than that, what is there to quibble with? It's always annoying to read other fans postings which belittle our squad, and treat their own as champions, but nevertheless, this is what boards are about. Extremeskins no doubt reads exactly the same way to Dallas Message Board readers, i know it does to me, and I'm a Redskin fan, (though probably a bit of a cynical one compared to the majority around here). This is just the way it works, for most fans, they give their own the benefit of the doubt, and they don't give that same benefit for their opponents. It's what makes us sleep better at night until Sunday brings the light of the day, which is then either veiled, analyzed, or overly-embellished hours afterwards. That's just my view, anyway.

Gibbs is a HOF Coach and needs to prove nothing. As for fans your right. It is hard for many to think with their heads instead of their hearts.

[bird_1972]

Originally posted by turdfurguson

Gibbs is a HOF Coach and needs to prove nothing. As for fans your right. It is hard for many to think with their heads instead of their hearts.

We have such high expectations of him coming straight out of the gates, I'm afraid Gibbs will have some difficulty living up to them. Its kind of like expecting a bunch of starving dogs to restrain themselves from going to town when a slab of steak is thrown in front of them. Skins fans have been starving for a winner, and we need BIG success in order to quell the hunger. I really think moderate, realistic expectations should be the order of the day. I don't want us to diminish what he's accomplished a year from now if we don't make the playoffs in 2004. And that, my friends, is a real possibility.

[dallasfan]

Well you guys have been better than us, on paper for the last few years (Since 2000), and that has resulted in 0 playoff appearences, 0 winning seasons, and a 1 and 7 record. Every year we hear this year will be different. First you guys were just better since you had "great" players like Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith and Mark Carrier. Then you had a real coach like Marty Schottenhimer, then you guys had an even better coach in Steve Spurrier.

I'm not going to just blindly rip the skins, I realize your O-line sucked mainly due to Spurrier, but you guys seem to believe that the entire team will buy into Gibbs, and play to their potential, when Parcells who is more in touch with 2 days players than Gibbs, couldn't even do it.

There's going to be some roster over haul before you guys are ready to make your run, and I can see that my team is trying to build a solid foundation. Our O-line and D-line is much improved, and if we can get 2 starters next year, we'll be in a very good position come 05'. You guys on the other hand May have quiet a few superstars, but are several players away. 3 out of the 4 players on your D-line should be back-ups. Springs has a lot to prove and Barrow is short term solution. And if recent history has shown us anything, most of the guys you sign won't be with the team very long. So while Gibbs and co may have more than a 2 year plan, several of the guys you all are counting on won't play in DC very long.

[The Consigliere]

I think my expectations are pretty fair. I expect seven or eight wins. Gibbs started 0-5 in '81, was an ugly 5-5 through 10 in '85, was 7-9 in '88, and an ugly 9-7 following a Super Bowl Victory that had come in '91.

I don't think he's a miracle worker, I just think that whatever a team's capable of achieving he'll make sure they'll achieve. If this is an 8-8 team at best, it will be 8-8, if it's capable of being better or worse it will be, pending injuries and luck, or unluckyness with turnovers.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Well you guys have been better than us, on paper for the last few years (Since 2000), and that has resulted in 0 playoff appearences, 0 winning seasons, and a 1 and 7 record. Every year we hear this year will be different. First you guys were just better since you had "great" players like Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith and Mark Carrier. Then you had a real coach like Marty Schottenhimer, then you guys had an even better coach in Steve Spurrier.

On paper and on the field. Easy to gloss over those 3 consectutive 5-11 seasons after 1 winning season, isn't it?

I'm not going to just blindly rip the skins, I realize your O-line sucked mainly due to Spurrier, but you guys seem to believe that the entire team will buy into Gibbs, and play to their potential, when Parcells who is more in touch with 2 days players than Gibbs, couldn't even do it.

First of all, Gibbs is much more personable than Parcells is. Second, Parcells got enough of the players to buy into his system to double the win total from the previous season. What does being away from the game have to do with motivating players? It's all the same. Besides, I'm sure enough of the guys are fed up with losing, and don't need much motivation to perform for a HOF coach.

There's going to be some roster over haul before you guys are ready to make your run, and I can see that my team is trying to build a solid foundation. Our O-line and D-line is much improved, and if we can get 2 starters next year, we'll be in a very good position come 05'. You guys on the other hand May have quiet a few superstars, but are several players away. 3 out of the 4 players on your D-line should be back-ups. Springs has a lot to prove and Barrow is short term solution. And if recent history has shown us anything, most of the guys you sign won't be with the team very long. So while Gibbs and co may have more than a 2 year plan, several of the guys you all are counting on won't play in DC very long.

What roster overhaul? The only question mark we have is on Dline. The jury is still out on that because Gregg Williams' schemes could very well take advantage of the guys we do have. Our coaches seem comfortable with them.

Your Oline and Dline is much improved? When did this happen? I must have blinked. I don't see any improvements.

Don't pretend to know what players are thinking when it comes time to resign. That's just wishful thinking at this point.

[KevinthePRF]

Most of the posts Cowboy fans reply with seem to be depending on the fact our two offensive acqusitions will definitely be injured. I'd love to own the injury crystal ball most arm chair GMs possess. I'd be a hit at Vegas. On that note I still would of been happy to pick up Kearse instead of the Eagles.

But the Cowboy poster I do agree with stated, "We shall see..."

My hopes are up with Gibbs back, but my guard is also, we've traveled down the "we can't lose" road before.

[dallasfan]

Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin

On paper and on the field. Easy to gloss over those 3 consectutive 5-11 seasons after 1 winning season, isn't it?

Is last year included, If I recall correctly you guys were dominated both games last year, despite the score being 21-14 in the first meeting.

Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin

First of all, Gibbs is much more personable than Parcells is. Second, Parcells got enough of the players to buy into his system to double the win total from the previous season. What does being away from the game have to do with motivating players? It's all the same. Besides, I'm sure enough of the guys are fed up with losing, and don't need much motivation to perform for a HOF coach.

A lot has changed since 1992, the players have bigger egos, and get paid more so it's harder to make examples out of high paid players.

Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin

What roster overhaul? The only question mark we have is on Dline. The jury is still out on that because Gregg Williams' schemes could very well take advantage of the guys we do have. Our coaches seem comfortable with them.

Okay, so you know exactly what your getting from Shawn Springs? Okay how about how well Fred Smoot will play with out having the coverege rolled onto his side of the field. Not to mention Dave Fiore/Derrick Dockery and Corey Raymer/Lenny Friedman.

Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin

Your Oline and Dline is much improved? When did this happen? I must have blinked. I don't see any improvements.

Marcellus Wiley=Ebenezer Ekuban, not to mention Willie Blade has a year of starting under his belt. On the oline Jacob Rogers is better than Ryan Young and Stephen Peterman will take either Gurdode's spot or Allen's spot if the don't play better.

Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin

Don't pretend to know what players are thinking when it comes time to resign. That's just wishful thinking at this point.

I'm not pretending anything, just pointing out a trend.

2000- signed Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Mark Carrier, Larry Centers, and Jeff George .

2001- released Deion Sanders, Mark Carrier, Larry Centers, Jeff George, no major signings.

2002-Signed Jerimiah Trotter, Jessie Armstead, Darly Gardner, Renaldo Wynn, and Larry Moore

2003-Released Darly Gardner, Dan Wilkenson and Stephen Davis. Signed- Lavernous Coles, Chad Morton, Randy Thomas, John Hall, Matt Bowen, Trung Canidate, Brandon Noble, Jermaine Haley, and Byron Chamberlain.

2004- Released Bruce Smith, Jerimiah Trotter, Jessie Armstead, Champ Bailey (traded), Larry Moore, and Bryon Chamberlain. Signed Mark Brunnell, Clinton Portis, Corey Raymer, James Thrash, Cornielus Griffin, Phillip Daniels, Marcus Washington, Mike Barrow, Shawn Springs and Walt Harris.

It doesn't take a genuis to realize that every time Snyder goes on one of these shopping sprees he has to turn the roster over every few years to keep it from getting out of control.

[The Consigliere]

Larry Centers wasn't signed in '00, he was signed in '99 I believe. His OT TD against SF propelled Washington to it's first victory over San Francisco since November 1986, still vivid in my memory since I'm born and raised, and still living in the bay area. Bunch of spit was hanging off our Redskin Paraphenalia-decked car when we got back to leave the Lot.

[dallasfan]

Originally posted by The Consigliere

Larry Centers wasn't signed in '00, he was signed in '99 I believe. His OT TD against SF propelled Washington to it's first victory over San Francisco since November 1986, still vivid in my memory since I'm born and raised, and still living in the bay area. Bunch of spit was hanging off our Redskin Paraphenalia-decked car when we got back to leave the Lot.

you right, my mistake he spent 2 seasons with you guys not 1.

[The Consigliere]

No problem, it's just some are inclined to discount an argument out of hand for an inaccuracy that appears so early within a post.

The merits of your argument are something I'm too fatigued to think about right now, but I'm not about to dismiss the fact that Snyder when working as a unit with fellow stooge Cerrato are not exactly the makings of a Mount Rushmore of Owner/GM combo's. I'm not at all a big fan, but Gibbs presence could change A LOT of things. I expect next offseason will be much like Schotty's '01 offseason. It will involve the dismissal of any non-Gibbs types that have yet to be unloaded, and not many signings, certainly not many expensive one's (save maybe a DE, or WR if Gardner departs).

We'll see what happens, just based on what we know now, I expect that the standings would look something like this:

NFC East

1.) Philly 10-6

2.) Washington 8-8

3.) Dallas 8-8

4.) New York 5-11

The playoffs should be interesting, who will get in? I expect the division winners will be Minny, Philly, New Orleans or Carolina or Atlanta, and St. Louis or Seattle.

Who makes the playoffs? I suppose based on that list: Minny, Philly, St. Louis, Seattle, Carolina, and Atlanta. But I definitely think that the wild card race will include Tampa, Green Bay, Washington, Dallas, and whichever two other teams fail to win the South among New Orleans, Atlanta and Carolina. The NFC is packed full or above average-good teams, there is nothing GREAT to speak of in the conference. It should be a fascinating season. And I really wonder what Detroit will be capable of, I loved their past two offseasons, and if Harrington finally gets it, they could make a huge jump, sort of like if Carolina skipped the improvement of '02 and jumped straight away into the Super Bowl in '03 (not that I expect that of Detroit, but I do think a Detroit improvement of the sort we saw from Carolina in '02 is possible if Harrington finally proves to "get it,".

[Shotgunner]

Let em talk trash. They were in the playoffs last year, we were'nt even close. This will make this season all the sweeter, when we step on them on the way to the playoffs. :point2sky :dallasuck

[TXREDSKINS44]

I can't wait until September 12 when the season starts!!!!!

[ntotoro]

9/12... my Sister's birthday. That opening-day winner would be a great present for her...

Nick

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think that at the very least, Washington will not give games away under Gibbs. I think that you will be a much better team from a basics point of view. I also believe that you will be much more mentally tough. However, I think that you will have problems defensively and there is always the concern of how all the pieces fit together. Lastly, Gibbs offenses have always been heavily predicated on the use of the TE/HBack. At this point, I think that is the one single position that is missing offensively. The problems, obviously is that it is key to the success of your offense. There is always the chance that you may have somebody step up or you might make a late aquisition. Barring that, I think your offense will be somewhat limited until you get an impact player at this position.

[Chachie]

I still say Dallas will kill us at FedEx in week 3. They are a TEAM right now. That means a lot. We are going to spend at least 8 games becoming a TEAM. Everything they do this year will be familiar to them and they are familiar with eachother. Our talent upgrades will be countered by our unfamiliarity with the new system and our lack of time playing together. So I pray we get them in Dallas or it's another sweep year. C'mon, Skin fans-- don't get your hopes up YET, and don't underestimate the Tuna. We'll have our time. Gibbs will get us back on track. Just don't be gettin' all CRAZY. Cowboy fans are right when they say we ALWAYS spend money and sign big-name players because we always do and it always flops. I'm optimistic, but realistic. Things take TIME.

Oh, and if I'm wrong? I'll be one happy Redskin fan.:wavetowel

[Rocky21]

"Marcellus Wiley=Ebenezer Ekuban, not to mention Willie Blade has a year of starting under his belt. On the oline Jacob Rogers is better than Ryan Young and Stephen Peterman will take either Gurdode's spot or Allen's spot if the don't play better."

Can you say "delusional?"

:laugh:

The Cowboys won't have two gimme games against last place teams (Cardinals and Lions) like they did last year.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally posted by Rocky21

"Marcellus Wiley=Ebenezer Ekuban, not to mention Willie Blade has a year of starting under his belt. On the oline Jacob Rogers is better than Ryan Young and Stephen Peterman will take either Gurdode's spot or Allen's spot if the don't play better."

Can you say "delusional?"

:laugh:

The Cowboys won't have two gimme games against last place teams (Cardinals and Lions) like they did last year.

No, but I can say optimistic. I don't think you can say that Wiley = Ekuban. Wiley has demonstrated that he can be much more productive. Ekuban never showed that.

I personally believe that Rogers will have serious work in front of him before he can be an effective starter. To be honest, I'm not even sure that RT is where he will eventually end up. He might be the future LT and Adams may eventually move to RT. Having said that, Tucker is the guy that I would see as the starter this year at RT. As for Peterman, I think that guy is going to be a very good NFL guard and I think he might end up having a pretty good season this year but who is to say if he is the starter this year? Allen has not been traded and if he is motivated, he is very capable of playing at a high level. Gurode had what I consider to be an excellent rookie year. His soph year was not nearly as good but if you really look at his problems last year, they weren't physical. They were mental. He committed too many penalties. Your talking about a second year player that basically had to learn two completely different offenses in consecutive years. It is very possible that with a second year in the same offense, he could be much improved. As for the schedule, well, we all have one and we gotta play it so lets just see what the future holds in that department. I don't think that any reasonable Cowboy fan will dispute the fact that we really over achieved last year. By the same token, you won't find one that doesn't believe that we won't be improved either. I could actually see us having a worse record this year then last. That, however, doesn't mean that we will not be a better football team.

[jhardee]

until Redskins actually beat Philadelphia or Dallas it really doesnt matter.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

like someone else mentioned before, dallas was a few bounces away from 8-8, 7-9....and the redskins were the team that didnt get the bounce, mostly because of horrenous coaching and a lack of discipline. we beat the SB champs and SHOULDVE beat the runner ups. we lost a bunch of games by 6 points or less. gibbs has more talent this year IMO than spurrier had last season and joe will hold these guys accountable for what they do on the field.

i honestly dont see where dallas has improved very much. the biggest holes, QB and RB werent addressed. julius is a rookie and probably wont be much of an improvement over troy hamsandwich. dallass didnt get worse, but they didnt get better. the redskins on the other hand, have filled more than one hole. the coaching staff alone will win this team 3-4 more wins. its up to the players to transfer it to the field.

its sounds to me like dallass fans are scared......:dallasuck