Number 44 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just now, mistertim said: What exactly about Bo Nix makes you think he's the elusive franchise guy we've been looking for? Not sure where I said that. Please do point it out for me. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just now, Number 44 said: Not sure where I said that. Please do point it out for me. Thank you. QB is by far a more important position than WR. Having a stud WR does little to nothing if you don't have a stud QB. So why spend the super high pick on a stud WR prospect and then settle for a lesser QB prospect who's statistically likely to have a ceiling of an average at best starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Number 44 said: You say taking Nix in the 2nd round would be a reach, then say you have a 2nd round grade on Nix. I'm not sure how to make sense out of that. This is what I said " Reaching for the QB who isn't ballyhooed so much but hoping to get lucky -- that's mostly been the rodeo we've been on." By reaching I meant it in terms of going more with the leap of a prayer type Qb and hope to get lucky. So yeah in pure terms taking Nix in the 2nd isn't a reach in the vaccum of grading a 2nd round pick. If he ends up a backup QB or a low tier starter that's fine in the context of draft value. But why do we have to do that? Jason Campbell and Patrick Ramsey for example were both mostly considered 2nd round type prospects. Ditto Haskins with scouts (not mock drafters who liked him more) and we took them in the mid to late first round instead. I think Nix has it in him to be a Campbell or Ramsey type but why not shoot higher when we have the opportunity to shoot higher? 32 minutes ago, Number 44 said: Hey, I feel good about the possibility of hiring the type of GM and head coach we are all hoping for. I'll rely on their takes on these guys. But, as I said, I'm not at all convinced as of now that any of the big 3 QBs are the elusive franchise guy we've been looking for forever. If our new brain-trust does, I'll support them and hope they are right. I'm just saying that as of right now, the guy I feel best about as our first pick is MHJ. High floor and high upside. No one is bust-proof, but MHJ is about as close to bust-proof as it gets, IMO. I was all for taking MHJ and said so on this thread back when Howell was playing better and it looked like we were picking 4th-5th, But now it feels a crazy move. lol, i was just listening to Galdi's podcast just now who made the same point and also thought it was crazy to skip QB if they are picking high. I can follow not liking Caleb, Daniels, Drake if you were specific as to why. But its still an outlier opinion. And that's cool, I got my share of outlier opinions. But purely as a philosophy, if we skipped QB it would feel like an endorsement of the Bruce Allen-Ron Rivera front office regimes -- just with the twist that they had the right idea but didn't execute it well. By that meaning, they were more about being risk adverse than taking chances. Not just for the QB spot but almost everything. I am just tired of that. I want out of this 30 year purgatory spell where we just enjoy occasional mild successes. I want in on the party for a change. Edited January 2 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 44 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 minute ago, mistertim said: QB is by far a more important position than WR. Having a stud WR does little to nothing if you don't have a stud QB. So why spend the super high pick on a stud WR prospect and then settle for a lesser QB prospect who's statistically likely to have a ceiling of an average at best starter? I'm obviously not suggesting Nix in round 1. I'm not even saying it has to be Nix. That''s just a thought based on what I've seen of him, but he's not the guy in this draft I want most. One thing I am saying is that if I'm taking a QB with pick 1.2 -- I want to strongly feel that he will be The Guy. I just don't feel that strongly about any of the top 3 QBs being discussed. Odd that you ask me why I feel Nix is a franchise QB, when I've said nothing of the kind. Better that you tell us why whichever QB you want at 1.2 will definitely lead us to the promised land. I'm saying that MHJ is the best player in the draft, IMO, and as of right now he'd be my pick at 1.2 if the Bears don't take him first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Number 44 said: Better that you tell us why whichever QB you want at 1.2 will definitely lead us to the promised land. This wasn't towards me but to chime in. "definitely" isn't the bar for any player. Yes, when you draft a QB its more of a high variance risky spot with grand successes and busts. But there is no such thing as "definitely" for any player or any position. There are busts for ballyhooed Wrs, OTs, etc. There is no "definite" QB who will take us to the promised land. But I'd put money as much as I love Marvin Harrison Jr, we aren't sniffing the playoffs if he doesn't have a good QB throwing him the ball. When you hear about prospective coaches coveting working for certain teams -- a common theme is they ideally want to go to a team that has a good QB or is in position to take one early in the draft. Have we ever heard of this or that coaching prospect wanting to go somewhere largely because they have a top WR? Edited January 2 by Skinsinparadise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 minutes ago, Number 44 said: I'm obviously not suggesting Nix in round 1. I'm not even saying it has to be Nix. That''s just a thought based on what I've seen of him, but he's not the guy in this draft I want most. One thing I am saying is that if I'm taking a QB with pick 1.2 -- I want to strongly feel that he will be The Guy. I just don't feel that strongly about any of the top 3 QBs being discussed. Odd that you ask me why I feel Nix is a franchise QB, when I've said nothing of the kind. Better that you tell us why whichever QB you want at 1.2 will definitely lead us to the promised land. I'm saying that MHJ is the best player in the draft, IMO, and as of right now he'd be my pick at 1.2 if the Bears don't take him first. Sure, MHJ may potentially be the best pure player in the draft, but taking a WR that high without a really good QB to throw to him is not only a luxury, it's just a plain dumb. And whichever QB it is you mention possibly taking later in the draft, 2nd round or whatever, is not going to be the caliber of QB prospect as guys like Williams, Maye, and Daniels. Are those three Luck or Lawrence level? No. But they're all very good. We went with a "safe" pick in 2020 with the guy considered the best player in the draft instead of a very good QB prospect and we paid the price for it. This is a strong QB class, IMO we need to swing for the fences here. (And for the record, I wanted Chase Young and was thinking along the same lines....take the best player in the draft. No brainer pick because none of the QB prospects available were "sure thing" blue chippers. I was wrong and don't want to make that mistake again.) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 2 hours ago, petey hodge said: Anyone one else scouting Michael Penix Jr’s every throw, every decision against Texas right now? is … he our guy? is … He a Dude? Should we have Penix Envy? Watching this game...I would not mind at all if he was our guy. Y'all see that deep ball? The pocket presence on that last TD? Edited January 2 by Bacon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srtman04 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 That kid Penix has a rocket arm.....why is he not projected to go higher in the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just now, srtman04 said: That kid Penix has a rocket arm.....why is he not projected to go higher in the draft? Injury history + age 24 when he starts in the NFL + an absolutely stacked WR corps To me, he's clearly a round 1 talent though. And he's a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 1 minute ago, srtman04 said: That kid Penix has a rocket arm.....why is he not projected to go higher in the draft? 2 shoulder surgeries, 2 ACLs. Edited January 2 by Skinsinparadise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 44 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: But purely as a philosophy, if we skipped QB it would feel like an endorsement of the Bruce Allen-Ron Rivera front office regimes -- just with the twist that they had the right idea but didn't execute it well. This is unfair on your part. My suggestion that we draft the best player in the draft in no way says I'm a fan of Bruce Allen. We disagree. That doesn't mean I think you like Dan Snyder. Just completely unnecessary. I'm not sure how my saying that I don't feel confident that any of the top three QBs being discussed will be a franchise guy is hard to understand. They're all good college QBs. I never said they're not. There are just enough little question marks on each to make me uneasy about calling their name at 1.2. I've stated my position clearly, and why MHJ is my current choice for 1.2, if he's there. If you disagree, that's great, that's what we are here for, to have these types of discussions. Feel free to try to convince me of your point of view, but there's no reason to insult me is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just now, Number 44 said: This is unfair on your part. My suggestion that we draft the best player in the draft in no way says I'm a fan of Bruce Allen. We disagree. That doesn't mean I think you like Dan Snyder. Just completely unnecessary. I'm not sure how my saying that I don't feel confident that any of the top three QBs being discussed will be a franchise guy is hard to understand. They're all good college QBs. I never said they're not. There are just enough little question marks on each to make me uneasy about calling their name at 1.2. I've stated my position clearly, and why MHJ is my current choice for 1.2, if he's there. If you disagree, that's great, that's what we are here for, to have these types of discussions. Feel free to try to convince me of your point of view, but there's no reason to insult me is there? It's unfair by you. I didn't say you were a fan of Bruce Allen. I explained exactly what I meant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 44 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 7 minutes ago, mistertim said: Sure, MHJ may potentially be the best pure player in the draft, but taking a WR that high without a really good QB to throw to him is not only a luxury, it's just a plain dumb. And whichever QB it is you mention possibly taking later in the draft, 2nd round or whatever, is not going to be the caliber of QB prospect as guys like Williams, Maye, and Daniels. Are those three Luck or Lawrence level? No. But they're all very good. We went with a "safe" pick in 2020 with the guy considered the best player in the draft instead of a very good QB prospect and we paid the price for it. This is a strong QB class, IMO we need to swing for the fences here. (And for the record, I wanted Chase Young and was thinking along the same lines....take the best player in the draft. No brainer pick because none of the QB prospects available were "sure thing" blue chippers. I was wrong and don't want to make that mistake again.) Fine. You think it's dumb to take the best player in the draft. We disagree. Have a good evening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srtman04 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: 2 shoulder surgeries, 2 ACLs Damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 minutes ago, Bacon said: Watching this game...I would not mind at all if he was our guy. Y'all that deep ball? The pocket presence on that last TD? There's no doubt that Penix can really go deep, that's for sure. (sorry low hanging fruit but couldn't resist) 3 minutes ago, srtman04 said: That kid Penix has a rocket arm.....why is he not projected to go higher in the draft? 2018 - ACL tear 2019 - Dislocated SC joint 2020 - Re-tore his ACL 2021 - Dislocated throwing shoulder Dude is a walking injury. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srtman04 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just now, mistertim said: There's no doubt that Penix can really go deep, that's for sure. (sorry low hanging fruit but couldn't resist) 2018 - ACL tear 2019 - Dislocated SC joint 2020 - Re-tore his ACL 2021 - Dislocated throwing shoulder Dude is a walking injury. Holy hell there's no way he can survive in the NFL....such a shame 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klwilkins1977 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I'm really not in love with any of the QBs. Maybe is a momma's boy and not a leader of men. He gives me weirdo Russell Wilson vibes (Let's ride....). Nix is too unpolished... mechanics-wise. We ha e a smaller Nix now. Are either of these guys going to represent a marked increase over Howell? Is drafting a QB behind this line a step forward? I say no to both questions. We need to address both lines; offense over defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 4 minutes ago, srtman04 said: Damn His receivers are insane. Odunze and Polk. I can see maybe Polk on this teams radar in the 2nd or 3rd. Edited January 2 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I'd take one of Caleb/Maye/Daniels at 2 overall and then think about taking Penix Jr. in the 4th. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4 minutes ago, Number 44 said: Fine. You think it's dumb to take the best player in the draft. We disagree. Have a good evening. I think it's dumb to take what may be the best pure player in the draft when we don't have a QB to throw the ball to him. Unless we somehow get insanely lucky with a later round QB pick this draft, or somehow Howell's shell shock subsides and he turns into a top QB, then MHJ's talents will be completely wasted here and he'll probably do little of note while we end up mired right back in mediocrity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 44 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: It's unfair by you. I didn't say you were a fan of Bruce Allen. I explained exactly what I meant. Nothing I said or suggested is in any way shape or form an endorsement of Bruce Allen. You said it. No reason to equate me to Bruce Allen. Not fair. My current choice is MHJ because I believe him to be the best football player in the draft and I'm not strongly confident that there's a likely franchise QB there. Possible? Yeah. Likely? No. But it is very likely in my view that MHJ will be really, really good. If that makes me dumb, as the other poster said, or is somehow an endorsement of Bruce Allen in your opinion, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Penix has thrown maybe 4 amazing deep balls into tight coverage where he dropped it in the bucket in this game… I haven’t watched him before, but good lord those were pretty. He’s actually played an amazing first half, moving in the pocket, throwing on the run, eyes downfield. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said: And you're going to risk losing out on a franchise QB bu assuming you can be sure that Arizona won't take him, and also aren't smart enough to turn around and trade that pick for the enormous bounty a team lower down would pay for a QB? I can't stress enough how much none of this will or could happen. Yeah that stuff involving the cardinals is not happening. I was just saying...assuming the Bears are not taking a QB, and if its clear theyre not...why in the world would picks 2 or 3 offer to trade up? It's not about a "gotcha" between anybody, it just wouldn't make sense, especially if you're picking at 2. 3 might want to switch with 2 to get their desired QB. It's not a typical "well we want that guy so we're trading ahead of a team who might want him". It's a 7 win team with the first overall pick because of a trade a year ago. It's weird. They don't just get to grab a haul of picks and still get Harrison just because they're first overall. And that's the question - are they sticking with Fields? Would they keep Fields if they do go QB? What does Fields fetch in a trade? It's an unusual situation. If I were the Bears I would stick with Fields and take Harrison. And I would "bluff" like I might go QB but I think that would be a hard secret to keep. And if you're Washington, unless you super fall in love with either williams/maye, and you're picking 2nd, you say screw it I'm still getting a great QB and I'm not trading **** to do it. The pats however, they might fall in love and wanna switch with us. First things first though, lose to Dallas 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 If Penix were 21 instead of already 23 I wouldn’t mind taking him after a trade down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2012: RG3 at 2 overall and Kirk Cousins at 102 overall 2023: Caleb/Drake/Jayden at 2 overall and Nix/Penix at 102 overall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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