2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Wait, that means no playoffs for us, more like than not 😢

I know that. If I were to guess, Lions, 49ers, Saints, Giants.

 

Cowboys, Eagles, Atlanta, Vikings, Seahawks and Commanders are going to fight for the last spot. 

 

I'd sy the Eagles and Vikings get in.

[redskinss]

Poor Josh Harris, watches his favorite team fumble around in chaos for twenty five years when the division was average at best and spends 6 billion to buy them just as it looks like the division is going to become a powerhouse again. 

It'll be nice to see that though, always loved that back in the 80's when we won we really won because we had to run a gauntlet of fire to do it.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Poor Josh Harris, watches his favorite team fumble around in chaos for twenty five years when the division was average at best and spends 6 billion to buy them just as it looks like the division is going to become a powerhouse again. 

It'll be nice to see that though, always loved that back in the 80's when we won we really won because we had to run a gauntlet of fire to do it.

We are clearly the best division in football this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think they win the division over the Eagles and we finish just behind the Cowboys, who squeak into the playoffs.

 

I keep forgetting about Okereke,  Their defense should be vastly improved.    Though I'll say I look forward to our matchups.  I think the Giants are the better team but not by a mile. 

 

Why am I fixated on that team?  I think they are the obvious roadblock as to making the playoffs. 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Poor Josh Harris, watches his favorite team fumble around in chaos for twenty five years when the division was average at best and spends 6 billion to buy them just as it looks like the division is going to become a powerhouse again. 

It'll be nice to see that though, always loved that back in the 80's when we won we really won because we had to run a gauntlet of fire to do it.

 

Agree I think this division is loaded.  And you got three among the best FOs in the league in that division.  And maybe two among the best coaching staffs in the league.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

The Cowboys will win the division probably, but we are going to be right there with them for most of the season.  I think we win 11 games.  Maybe 12.  11 will get us into the playoffs.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Going Commando said:

The Cowboys will win the division probably, but we are going to be right there with them for most of the season.  I think we win 11 games.  Maybe 12.  11 will get us into the playoffs.

 

11-12 wins?  How deep in the playoffs do we go -- championship game?

[Going Commando]

I think the AFC North will end up being the best division this year, but it's close between them and ours.  I feel like Baltimore and Pittsburgh are potential one seeds again, and Cincinnati is always going to be a threat with all of that talent.  Cleveland is the only one I'm not sure about.

[Skinsinparadise]

For this team to win 11-12 games, IMO three things have to happen.

 

A.  Sam Howell blossoms to be Russell Wilson like from the jump.

 

B.  Chase Young in a contract year goes Daron Payne level career peak 

 

C.  the O line plays average

 

For me I see 8 wins.  If things break their way 9 wins.    11-12 wins would be historic for this organization, best season since 1991 and it would be beyond impressive considering how tough this division is.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

11-12 wins?  How deep in the playoffs do we go -- championship game?

 

Who knows?  I think we're going to have a lot of regular season success this year though, because I actually believe in Rivera and his build here.  I think they are better than last year's team in every way.  Just need Howell and the defense to stay healthy and we will roll.

[KillBill26]

AFC East will be pretty competitive top to bottom too.  I know the Pats are down, but they will still be a tough beat.  Bills, Jets, and Dolphins are all capable of making a run with good health.

[KillBill26]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For this team to win 11-12 games, IMO three things have to happen.

 

A.  Sam Howell blossoms to be Russell Wilson like from the jump.

 

B.  Chase Young in a contract year goes Daron Payne level career peak 

 

C.  the O line plays average

 

For me I see 8 wins.  If things break their way 9 wins.    11-12 wins would be historic for this organization, best season since 1991 and it would be beyond impressive considering how tough this division is.

 

Agree with A and C.  I think we could be a 11-12 win team without Young going off.  If he returns to form that would definitely help, but the way our d line still played well with Sweat and Young out goes to show how valuable Allen/Payne are.  However, if we are to lose either Allen or Payne, I think we are in trouble.  Young could very well be our 4th best DL this year, so if we could get the health of the other 3, along with A and C that you mentioned, I think we win 11+.

[DWinzit]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I follow many NY sports reporters on twitter and its hard to miss how amped that team is for thier draft and off season in general.  When Brian Baldinger said he likes Washington but believes the Giants have VASTLY improved this off season and are the better team.  I get where he's likely getting his drift.

 

While we are wondering if our top FA signing, Wylie is a liability let alone an asset and wonder whether he's the weak link on the O line as some beat reporters hint -- the Giants are talking about how Waller is already perhaps the best player on their team and has opened up their offense for everyone.   Parris Campbell also has had a good camp for them.

 

Looks like they got 3-5 starters for 2023 out of this class.  And the others are stong rotational guys.  Comparing to us, I am not sure we got a single impact FA and by all indications we got 1 starter for 2023 from this draft.  

 

Last year, Logan Paulsen was saying we have more talent than the Giants but the Giants have better coaching.   I am not sure if they don't have better talent than us, too now.

 

And lol, yes I am painfully aware of this in part because as I mentioned many times i got more Giant fans in the mix of my family thanks to my in-laws than Washington fans.  So I am exposed to the disease.

 

Joe Schoen is a dude we've wanted in the FO thread for years.  So is Ryan Cowden who they added to their staff.  They also took one of Howie Roseman's top personnel guys.     Their FO and coaching staff is littered with high pedigreed guys.   They've built their staff like old school Joe Gibbs days where they try to get the best of the best of everything.

 

While some defend Ron that he's still building and working on his plan.  The Giants in year 1 of their rebuild accomplished more than Ron did in his 3 and the vibe is they will take an even bigger leap this year.   I said this months back but the Giants come off with more of a sense of urgency than Ron and I simply think they are a smarter and more competent outfit than what we got right now.

 

And again not because Ron is an idiot.  He's a C plus, B minus operator IMO.  He does more good than bad.  But he's competing IMO against A operations in the division as to FOs.  Even Dallas in recent years as Jerry Jones has let Will McClay do his thing.

Living in Giant Country I am overexposed to this disease and sympathize with you dealing with your family plague. 

 

Yes the Giants have done a nice job building their FO and staff. I think we have a pretty good staff ourselves. With new ownership now in place I am certain the FO will be built up of a higher quality than currently exists.

 

I do hate the way the offseason went and can only hope they can bring in some more talent at OL, LB and sadly perhaps TE. All three we all knew needed better upgrades than they received. If they can manage this, the team behind an inexperienced QB has a chance to shine and be at least equal to the Giants. 

 

The amount of Waller love is crazy to me. I see him as an equal to Thomas, loaded with talent and fragile. Not the guy I want to be my top weapon.

 

I am not thrilled with any talk of Jonathan Taylor moving to the NFCE. Over the past 2 days I had Giant fans talking this up...I had to kick them out until after we beat them!

 

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For this team to win 11-12 games, IMO three things have to happen.

 

A.  Sam Howell blossoms to be Russell Wilson like from the jump.

 

B.  Chase Young in a contract year goes Daron Payne level career peak 

 

C.  the O line plays average

 

For me I see 8 wins.  If things break their way 9 wins.    11-12 wins would be historic for this organization, best season since 1991 and it would be beyond impressive considering how tough this division is.

 

I think it's Sweat who breaks out this year. Allen was close and got there the next year, Payne was close and then got there the next year, Sweat was really close last year, this year I bet he breaks out.

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Living in Giant Country I am overexposed to this disease and sympathize with you dealing with your family plague. 

 

Yes the Giants have done a nice job building their FO and staff. I think we have a pretty good staff ourselves. With new ownership now in place I am certain the FO will be built up of a higher quality than currently exists.

 

I do hate the way the offseason went and can only hope they can bring in some more talent at OL, LB and sadly perhaps TE. All three we all knew needed better upgrades than they received. If they can manage this, the team behind an inexperienced QB has a chance to shine and be at least equal to the Giants. 

 

The amount of Waller love is crazy to me. I see him as an equal to Thomas, loaded with talent and fragile. Not the guy I want to be my top weapon.

 

I am not thrilled with any talk of Jonathan Taylor moving to the NFCE. Over the past 2 days I had Giant fans talking this up...I had to kick them out until after we beat them!

 

If they didn't bring back Barkley back, I'd be concerned, but no East team is looking for a star RB. I could see the Saints or Seahwaks making a run.

[FootballZombie]

I think we will be better than last year, but this division is yoked.

Hard for me to place us anywhere other than 4th.

 

Phi and Dal were clearly much better than us last year and remain so now.

We were very close to NY, but they had a way better offseason than we had, plus they get the added bonus of stability going into another year together.

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think it's Sweat who breaks out this year. Allen was close and got there the next year, Payne was close and then got there the next year, Sweat was really close last year, this year I bet he breaks out.

This is where I have been at as well, but year for Allen, Payne and really big one for Sweat. Hoping Chase contributes well.

 

I was thinking Davis would really be able to break out as well with a huge year being he would never come off the field. I an now more skeptical after watching him and the other LB's against Baltimore, I did not like what I saw from him, Hudson or Barton. They can't work through blockers and get the ball carrier. They are a bigger team and these guys were kind of getting swallowed up at times. 

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

This is where I have been at as well, but year for Allen, Payne and really big one for Sweat. Hoping Chase contributes well.

 

I was thinking Davis would really be able to break out as well with a huge year being he would never come off the field. I an now more skeptical after watching him and the other LB's against Baltimore, I did not like what I saw from him, Hudson or Barton. They can't work through blockers and get the ball carrier. They are a bigger team and these guys were kind of getting swallowed up at times. 

Im with you, LB may be the reason this D is not top 5. No matter how good the front 4 is or the DB's, I don't think they will be able to fully mask the LB play.

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me I see 8 wins.  If things break their way 9 wins.    11-12 wins would be historic for this organization, best season since 1991 and it would be beyond impressive considering how tough this division is.

 

It's time to let go of the mentality that 11 wins is some monumental mountain to climb for us.  We can do it because we have good leadership and they've done good work and we are competitive at that level now.  12 wins also got watered down some by the 17th game.

 

Our ceiling is good for a ton of players on this roster, Rivera is a seasoned HC who has led these kind of 11-12+ win runs before, and we have some star assistants on our staff.  Talking specifics on our ceiling, I can see our offense finishing in the top half of the league and our D in the top five with our players getting AV totals like this:

 

Allen: 13+

Young: 13+

Payne: 13+

Sweat: 11+

Howell: 11

McLaurin: 10

Curl: 10

Dotson: 9

Davis: 9

St Juste: 9

Cosmi: 8

Leno: 8

Gibson: 8

Wylie: 7

Fuller: 7

Robinson: 7

Samuel: 7

Smith-Williams: 7

Thomas: 6

Gates: 6

Turner: 5

Forbes: 5

Brown: 5

Martin: 5

Mathis: 5

 

Every one of those projections is realistic, and for most, they've had seasons like that before.  And if we get 16 or 17 players with 7+ AV this year, we're gonna win 11 or 12 games.  We're not going to rely on our rookie class to do it, nor a guy who has had two healthy season in a seven year career.

 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

This is where I have been at as well, but year for Allen, Payne and really big one for Sweat. Hoping Chase contributes well.

 

I was thinking Davis would really be able to break out as well with a huge year being he would never come off the field. I an now more skeptical after watching him and the other LB's against Baltimore, I did not like what I saw from him, Hudson or Barton. They can't work through blockers and get the ball carrier. They are a bigger team and these guys were kind of getting swallowed up at times. 

 

3 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Im with you, LB may be the reason this D is not top 5. No matter how good the front 4 is or the DB's, I don't think they will be able to fully mask the LB play.

Davis is a fine role player, but we do truly need an elite new school Mike for our 5-1-5 to really work the way that it should.

 

As much as we want to diminish the need for LBers, it's not gonna happen.

[DWinzit]

6 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Im with you, LB may be the reason this D is not top 5. No matter how good the front 4 is or the DB's, I don't think they will be able to fully mask the LB play.

As much as I hate to say it, and i know they weren't all playing the starters but Mayo almost looked better than the others at times...ugh. Yes Barton and Davis had some nice plays but swallowed up on others

[redskinss]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

It's time to let go of the mentality that 11 wins is some monumental mountain to climb for us.  We can do it because we have good leadership and they've done good work and we are competitive at that level now.  12 wins also got watered down some by the 17th game.

 

Our ceiling is good for a ton of players on this roster, Rivera is a seasoned HC who has led these kind of 11-12+ win runs before, and we have some star assistants on our staff.  Talking specifics on our ceiling, I can see our offense finishing in the top half of the league and our D in the top five with our players getting AV totals like this:

 

Allen: 13+

Young: 13+

Payne: 13+

Sweat: 11+

Howell: 11

McLaurin: 10

Curl: 10

Dotson: 9

Davis: 9

St Juste: 9

Cosmi: 8

Leno: 8

Gibson: 8

Wylie: 7

Fuller: 7

Robinson: 7

Samuel: 7

Smith-Williams: 7

Thomas: 6

Gates: 6

Turner: 5

Forbes: 5

Brown: 5

Martin: 5

Mathis: 5

 

Every one of those projections is realistic, and for most, they've had seasons like that before.  And if we get 16 or 17 players with 7+ AV this year, we're gonna win 11 or 12 games.  We're not going to rely on our rookie class to do it, nor a guy who has had two healthy season in a seven year career.

 

I like your optimism, and I also think this team could surprise if everything clicks, but that's the objective sentence, if everything clicks.

I'd also be lying if I said I wasn't concerned with how our defense has looked like Swiss cheese to start both our games so far. 

I know it's only preseason but this defense has had a tendency to start slow all 3 years under jack and Ron and the fact they looked lost two games in a row to start is an ominous sign to me.

Edited August 24, 2023 by redskinss

[Chris 44]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Davis is a fine role player, but we do truly need an elite new school Mike for our 5-1-5 to really work the way that it should.

 

As much as we want to diminish the need for LBers, it's not gonna happen.

That's the kicker, in this scheme we only need one elite or even pretty good LB...as of right now we don't even have a single one. Was really hoping Davis would become that but unless he really surprises I think he is going to be a disappointment (especially for his draft position).

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Im with you, LB may be the reason this D is not top 5. No matter how good the front 4 is or the DB's, I don't think they will be able to fully mask the LB play.

 

Nah, we'll be fine once Jamin settles back in.  It's a two man group, they have the easiest jobs on the defense, and we have two players there who are good enough.

 

Linebacker stopped being a linchpin position for an NFL defense years ago.  It's the least consequential position group on the defense now, the running backs of that side of the ball.  Except they're even less valuable than RBs since they don't score.

 

The dominance of a defense is predicated on mauling people at the line of scrimmage and playing cohesive coverage in your secondary.  We're built to do that right now.  We've got one of the best groups for bringing pressure with four in the league, and our secondary is like 8 deep in true quality now.  They also have a lot of continuity/equity built up.  Unless they get killed by injuries, they're going to be one of the best defenses in the NFL again this year.

[Koolblue13]

And now I'm saying that the Eagles are the prime destination for J. Taylor and the Eagles are trying to make it happen. Yikes.

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

Nah, we'll be fine once Jamin settles back in.  It's a two man group, they have the easiest jobs on the defense, and we have two players there who are good enough.

 

Linebacker stopped being a linchpin position for an NFL defense years ago.  It's the least consequential position group on the defense now, the running backs of that side of the ball.  Except they're even less valuable than RBs since they don't score.

 

The dominance of a defense is predicated on mauling people at the line of scrimmage and playing cohesive coverage in your secondary.  We're built to do that right now.  We've got one of the best groups for bringing pressure with four in the league, and our secondary is like 8 deep in true quality now.  They also have a lot of continuity/equity built up.  Unless they get killed by injuries, they're going to be one of the best defenses in the NFL again this year.

Hope your right but Im just not seeing it. The days of 3 LB may be gone but having that one stud LB is still huge.

[DWinzit]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

And now I'm saying that the Eagles are the prime destination for J. Taylor and the Eagles are trying to make it happen. Yikes.

Yeah I have read that and am worried...They have already built an incredibly talented filled roster.