2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I these are the relevant ones which I posted a few days ago.  I'll add some here.   PFF has their run blocking and pass blocking just about equally bad.

 

I know some expect that to change this season.  Maybe?  Wylie isn't an upgrade on run blocking versus Lucas judging by PFF scores but is worse.  But agree PFF isn't the be all and end all.  Gates isn't much of a run blocker according to PFF.

 

If they want to bolster the run blocking at least in theory IMO start Stromberg.  Stromberg IMO is a good run blocker.

 

 

 

Howells threat of mobility, the RB group and EB's play calling should dramatically improve these stats. That's without even taking into consideration OL changes

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

15th? Woof! Brutal fall from last years defense. Kind of want to watch it now to see why he says that. Legitimately feel like we've improved on D after that unit was good last season too.

 

O goes as the QB does... usually. So in Howell we do or don't.

 

He doesn't really elaborate much. Basically says young upside for the secondary but that can go either way because young players in the secondary can struggle early on so he splits the difference basically.  But I take that as negative from him.  No way I think this defense finishes 15.  If it did the national media, etc nailed it with us having a top 5-10 pick in next years draft.

 

I'll correct myself on one point he made where I said he didn't say Rodriguez doesn't make the team.  He said 3 RBs make the team and Samuel is one of them.  So I gather he thinks Gibson doesn't make it.  

 

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

 

 

If a lot of Ron’s players are still here, then you can say he impacted this team and laid the foundation. If most of his players are discarded, then that won’t be the case.

 

The drafts have been good.  So I doubt there is a purge of young players.  D. Forrest.  Curl, Forbes.  Martin.  Robinson, Rodriguez.  Dotson. C. Turner.  P. Butler.  J. Davis, etc.

 

If this was a veteran laden team, a rebuild would be in order.  But they've drafted IMO fairly well. 

 

He's helped build a good young foundation.  I don't think he has done that though at the O line.    QB remains to be seen.  If Howell though works out, I'd expect all hands on deck from the next regime at the O line and if so this team is close. 

 

I am not convinced Ron knows how to finish a roster but whomever makes their draft picks, I an assuming its Tim Gribble, is good at their job.  I don't know about great.  But he is certainly good.  I am guessing Gribble is at their heart of the FO's competence.   Not sure they do a lot of other things well.  But IMO they are good (not great) drafters.

 

Gribble was the #2 under Kyle Smith and towards the end of Kyle Smith's tenure left he put him in charge of the draft. 

 

https://www.commanders.com/team/front-office-roster/tim-gribble

 

Tim Gribble is entering his 24th season in the NFL (22nd with Washington) and his four as the Director of College Personnel. He was promoted to his current role on Jan. 14, 2020.

Gribble will now oversee the organization's evaluation of collegiate talent and manage scouting efforts at both the area and national levels.

Gribble previously assisted Kyle Smith and Washington's personnel staff by providing evaluations of collegiate talent at the national level.

Prior to his promotion to assistant director of college scouting in 2017, Gribble spent the previous 11 seasons as an area scout for Washington. He originally joined Washington in 2002 and served as a pro personnel assistant, later adding responsibility as the team's Northeast scout in 2003. He also covered the South and Midwest regions at various points during his first 16 years with the organization.

Before coming to Washington, Gribble spent two seasons with the Pittsburgh Steelers as an assistant in the scouting department. Prior to joining the NFL, he was an assistant coach for his alma mater, Duquesne University. He served as the Dukes' special teams coordinator (1996-2000), defensive line coach (1996-98) and running backs coach (1998-2000).

Gribble was a four-year starter (1992-96) at fullback and team captain at Duquesne. He also played baseball for the Dukes and earned dual degrees in psychology and sociology. He is married to his wife, Jennifer.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Howells threat of mobility, the RB group and EB's play calling should dramatically improve these stats. That's without even taking into consideration OL changes

 

I think Bieiniemy will help.  I think a heavy RPO system where Howell is actually willing to run unlike Redacted should help. 

 

I just don't buy a scheme alone improves a unit "dramatically"?  Wylie's pedestrain PFF scores were under Bieniemy.  The Giants are well coached IMO and are good run blockers (albiet not pass blockers) albiet not so much Gates.  So not sure Gates is about to take a career spike as he ages.  As high as Logan Paulsen is on Bieniemy he was ranking the East coaches the other day, and put the Giants offensive coaches #1 in the division.  

 

Like I said in another post, if they want to improve their run blocking based on talent -- start Stromberg.  Stromberg is a good combo blocker.  And centers basically major in combo blocking.  But he also tends to shed that combo block and then block another dude on the same play.  Impressive work IMO.

 

I like Bieniemy.  But I do think talent is still more important than scheme.  Boy wonder, Sean McVay, looked mortal when the Rams lost some horses and their O line was pedestrian.  Eventually these guys are going to have to go mano on mano with D lineman, there is a limit to what Bieniemy can scheme away.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think Bieiniemy will help.  I think a heavy RPO system where Howell is actually willing to run unlike Redacted should help. 

This is pretty much what I was saying. Partially addition by subtraction with the redacted one and S Turner.

 

They definitely neglected the OL over the past few years. They tried living off the existing talent, low end FA's and mid/late round middling talent while heavily focusing on the DL. 

 

I enjoyed your poat on Gribble

Edited July 9, 2023 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, DWinzit said:

This is pretty much what I was saying. Partially addition by subtraction with the redacted one and S Turner.

 

They definitely neglected the OL over the past few years. They tried living off the existing talent, low end FA's and mid/late round middling talent while heavily focusing on the DL. 

 

Another way to look at it is to reverse this.   If it was easy to just scheme away a defensive front where a mediocre to less O line can handle it without any problems -- that doesn't lend to a good season for us considering our D line is the main plot line.  

[DWinzit]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Another way to look at it is to reverse this.   If it was easy to just scheme away a defensive front where a mediocre to less O line can handle it without any problems -- that doesn't lend to a good season for us considering our D line is the main plot line.  

I love our powerful DL and now powerful defensive backfield. It's strength has come at a cost. Hoping a vet OL, LB and maybe TE can be grabbed soon to fill in the gaps. Next year I am certain regardless of who is coaching, the draft and FA will be heavily offense driven. Also keeps me thinking JDR could survive a coaching change whether EB or someone new. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I love our powerful DL and now powerful defensive backfield. It's strength has come at a cost. Hoping a vet OL, LB and maybe TE can be grabbed soon to fill in the gaps. Next year I am certain regardless of who is coaching, the draft and FA will be heavily offense driven. Also keeps me thinking JDR could survive a coaching change whether EB or someone new. 

 

Under Ron, they used 5 out of the top 7 (first and 2nd rounders) on defense.  So certainly an old school emphasis on defense.  I wouldn't mind it all if they also married it with an old school emphasis on the O line but alas that didn't happen.

 

Yeah it wouldn't shock me if JDR survives a purge if it happens next off season.   Depends clearly on a new HC.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Ron is orchestrating his own exit and succession plan and he sees that as a cool way to go off in the sunset.  But if I am in Harris' shoes I wouldn't afford Rivera that opportunity unless he earns it with a playoff season.

 

Bieiniemy's situation is interesting.  I am intrigued.  But if Rivera finishes off with another mediocre season -- I'd feel squeamish going with any recommendation from him. In that case, he didn't earn it.  Also if the offense struggles how would that fare for him?  I think for Bieniemy to look like the successor, they likely need to have a good season to set that up.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Under Ron, they used 5 out of the top 7 (first and 2nd rounders) on defense.  So certainly an old school emphasis on defense.  I wouldn't mind it all if they also married it with an old school emphasis on the O line but alas that didn't happen.

 

Yeah it wouldn't shock me if JDR survives a purge if it happens next off season.   Depends clearly on a new HC.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Ron is orchestrating his own exit and succession plan and he sees that as a cool way to go off in the sunset.  But if I am in Harris' shoes I wouldn't afford Rivera that opportunity unless he earns it with a playoff season.

 

Bieiniemy's situation is interesting.  I am intrigued.  But if Rivera finishes off with another mediocre season -- I'd feel squeamish going with any recommendation from him. In that case, he didn't earn it.  Also if the offense struggles how would that fare for him?  I think for Bieniemy to look like the successor, they likely need to have a good season to set that up.

Yeah we can rehash thoughts of draft foo-pahs but it would have been fine had they emphasized some quality OL pickup s in FA.

 

I think it will take more than a playoff appearance with a 9 or 10 win season for Ron to survive as HC.

 

Agree EB needs a good showing with the offense to be given a HC position here or possibly elsewhere.

 

JDR should look like a superstar this year with the talent is is being given.

 

[88Comrade2000]

EB just needs to improve our offense. Return us to a modern nfl offense.  He doesn’t need to show that in wins and losses, since other factors play into that beyond his control.  He does that and he will get interviews and hopefully land a head coaching gig.

 

I think only way he gets the gig here, he becomes interim coach here and leads the to the playoffs. That would make Josh and co. think we have the right guy already.

 

I do think EB will be granted an interview but my guess, Josh and co. Hire someone else in a regular coaching search.

 

 

 

Ron only returns with a playoff victory, not just an appearance.  Even that isn’t a gaurantee.  Josh is going to want to bring in a Gm. If Ron refuses to give up that, they will part ways.

[Koolblue13]

Woah, wait a minute. I assumed our screen and short passing game was so bad because we probably had so many in the box defending the run, but we didn't. 

 

That means the QB was so much worse than that and we still sucked at running the ball. Holy crap on a cracker.

[Conn]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think I’m reading this wrong based on your thoughts after.

 

% of runs for less than a yard and we’re not even on the visible tweet. That’s a good thing.

 

%of runs versus 7 box defenders is an interesting stat but not one that proves much. It means that our team liked to run against 7 box defenders the 19th most in the league. Which means we were doing it less than other teams and not more.

 

But there may have been more context or I may have woken up too early and not read this right.

 

4 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

That tweet means nothing without filtering that stat more.

 

Check out where the Chiefs are. 2nd from the bottom. Eagles are right next to us. Good and bad teams are all over this list.

 

Sharp just dumped data, which is nice I suppose, but I don't think that data is meant to have a narrative.

 

I think the context comes from having seen stats earlier about how inefficient our run game was, and then seeing that defenses were not even populating the box with 7+ defenders (not just 7, the stat is 7+) against us at the sort of extremely high rate you would have expected given how predictably run heavy we were last year (near the top in the league). So we were running a ton, with lackluster results despite defenses not even feeling the need to stack the box to stop us at any sort of high rate.

 

It was my own conjecture that part of those numbers could be explained by defenses assuming we had to pass when playing from behind, and us choosing to run a bunch anyways. But that would need to be dug into much more deeply. 
 

My main takeaway was just that we would have probably assumed here that we were facing stacked boxes at a decently high rate given how often and how predictably we ran the ball—but we actually weren’t. Which makes the lack of production from the running game even more troubling. 
 

(btw, it’s intuitive to me that the Chiefs would be near the bottom because who the hell is dumb enough to stack the box against a team with Mahomes throwing the ball? Meanwhile Shanahan’s running game continued to thrive despite facing 7+ in the box over 90% of the time—20%+ more than us—which also isn’t surprising to me given they have a good OL, use motion a ton, and brought in CMC. Nvm the schematic advantages they have).

 

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Woah, wait a minute. I assumed our screen and short passing game was so bad because we probably had so many in the box defending the run, but we didn't. 

 

That means the QB was so much worse than that and we still sucked at running the ball. Holy crap on a cracker.

Thank you, this is what I’m saying.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Conn

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

 

I think the context comes from having seen stats earlier about how inefficient our run game was, and then seeing that defenses were not even populating the box with 7+ defenders (not just 7, the stat is 7+) against us at the sort of extremely high rate you would have expected given how predictably run heavy we were last year (near the top in the league). So we were running a ton, with lackluster results despite defenses not even feeling the need to stack the box to stop us at any sort of high rate.

 

It was my own conjecture that part of those numbers could be explained by defenses assuming we had to pass when playing from behind, and us choosing to run a bunch anyways. But that would need to be dug into much more deeply. 
 

My main takeaway was just that we would have probably assumed here that we were facing stacked boxes at a decently high rate given how often and how predictably we ran the ball—but we actually weren’t. Which makes the lack of production from the running game even more troubling. 
 

(btw, it’s intuitive to me that the Chiefs would be near the bottom because who the hell is dumb enough to stack the box against a team with Mahomes throwing the ball? Meanwhile Shanahan’s running game continued to thrive despite facing 7+ in the box over 90% of the time—20%+ more than us—which also isn’t surprising to me given they have a good OL, use motion a ton, and brought in CMC. Nvm the schematic advantages they have).

 

Thank you, this is what I’m saying.

That second Giants game doesn't seem so bad now. The entire season could have looked like that.

 

Every time we rehash our offense, I feel like Wentz getting sacked 7 times in the first half.

 

I really ****ing hate Heinicke. I hope he's starting when we play Atlanta so I can watch Payne pummel him.

[philibusters]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I'll correct myself on one point he made where I said he didn't say Rodriguez doesn't make the team.  He said 3 RBs make the team and Samuel is one of them.  So I gather he thinks Gibson doesn't make it.  

 

 

 

I interpreted that different.  He said "With Curtis Samuel being part of this, I think they will only keep three backs" which I took to mean that instead of keeping 4 RB's we will only keep 3 because Samuels can take some carries.

[FootballZombie]

My goodness am I glad I don't have to sit thru that QB show again. My poor eyes are still recovering. They were the biggest problem w/ the O.

 

You cant be a volume passing O when one guy is erratic and the other guy actively goes for the high score of turnover worthy plays.

You cant throw screens when one guy lacks touch and the other guy can only deliver hospital balls

You can't have your QB be an asset in the run game when one guy's mobility has completely evaporated to the ether due to previous injuries and the other guy straight up refuses.

 

There is no passing Offense that could have been created w/ that personnel. Taking the ball outta their hands was the only option.... They shoulda run wildcat.

 

 

Dumping the double dead weight at QB was biggest upgrade this offseason... for about another week and a half at least.

[Koolblue13]

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, philibusters said:

 

I interpreted that different.  He said "With Curtis Samuel being part of this, I think they will only keep three backs" which I took to mean that instead of keeping 4 RB's we will only keep 3 because Samuels can take some carries.

OK, it threw me off.  I know he's not high on this RB crew though seems to like rodriguez but it didn't make much sense to me.  But I think you are right, he meant 4.  The way he explained it threw me off a little.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[ExoDus84]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I thought the Broncos being in 8 super bowls was a made up stat, so I googled. It's actually true. Damn...I had no idea they were that prolific in reaching it, yet so inept at winning (3-5 record).

 

In 4 of their super bowl losses, they've scored 8 points, and 10 points three times. Learn how to score, losers!

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by ExoDus84

[Koolblue13]

59 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I thought the Broncos being in 8 super bowls was a made up stat, so I googled. It's actually true. Damn...I had no idea they were that prolific in reaching it, yet so inept at winning (3-5 record).

 

In 4 of their super bowl losses, they've scored 8 points, and 10 points three times. Learn how to score, losers!

 

I was going to google it, too, but I figured if it's on the internet, it must be true.

 

Did you edit your post to add "Learn how to score, losers"? Cause if so, that's hysterical.

[Skinsinparadise]

This dude touts himself as a game handicapper and has over 25,000 followers.

 

I am not pessimistic like he is among orhers. But the worst team in the NFL takes the cake. Plenty of others expect them to be bad but I think he’s the first projecting them to be the worst 

 

[Chris 44]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This dude touts himself as a game handicapper and has over 25,000 followers.

 

I am not pessimistic like he is among orhers. But the worst team in the NFL takes the cake. Plenty of others expect them to be bad but I think he’s the first projecting them to be the worst 

 

Washington 6 point favorites over the Cards opening day. 4th largest win margin opening day. This alone would make them at worst 2nd worst team in the league. Lol. Yeah that schedule looks pretty tough but lots of unknowns out there across the league, not just in Washington.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Washington 6 point favorites over the Cards opening day. 4th largest win margin opening day. This alone would make them at worst 2nd worst team in the league. Lol. Yeah that schedule looks pretty tough but lots of unknowns out there across the league, not just in Washington.

 

 

They should beat the Cards and probably Denver, too.

 

I still think it’s an 8-9 year give or take 

[Chris 44]

I can easily see 3-3 in the division (not exactly going out on a limb there). I'm not as high on Dallas as a lot of people, I think Dak has regressed and think it shows up this year. If Sam can limit the mistakes (turnovers) this team will be in every game.

[Rocky21]

The Cowgirls’ losing their offensive co-ordinator to the Chargers and McCarthy calling plays will be a beautiful thing. 😀

[Koolblue13]

Watching the week 4 Cowboys game last year and the main problem is the Oline. The week before the Eagles sacked Wentz 7 times in the first half. Cowboys had two sacks in our first drive. 

 

We're also going to miss Holcomb a lot and he's not a great LBer.