2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I saw your post in the QB thread.  I am catching up to Sheehan tough for me to imagine he was that defintiive?  He's been saying this FO is close lipped.

 

But to play with the Daniels idea IMO. Legette, Corley, Burton.  I'd consider trading up for Thomas. 

There's just way too much smoke at this point. Its gonna be Daniels.

 

Might as well do everything we can to make life easy for him because that's what he'll need to succeed.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There's just way too much smoke at this point. Its gonna be Daniels.

 

Might as well do everything we can to make life easy for him because that's what he'll need to succeed.

 

I don't think it counts as smoke if nothing is coming from the team. It's all referenced to guys on other teams. Keim and others are being transparent about the lack of access they have right now.

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I don't think it counts as smoke if nothing is coming from the team. It's all referenced to guys on other teams. Keim and others are being transparent about the lack of access they have right now.

Too many national reputable people are reporting it, that means someone is hearing from someone on the inside.

[Darrell Green Fan]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watched my first game of Cole Bishop. Ill watch more. But first impression is wow is he a fun watch. Hes all over the field in the box, post, as a stand up pass rusher. 

 

You can see his speed in pursuit sideline to sideline. Big time motor. Good complement to Chinn because he plays with similar oomph but is better in coverage than Chinn. 

 

 

 

This is the exact type of player they may miss out on if they use picks to move into Round 1 for a LT.  I'd prefer they keep all their bullets and draft a lot of guys at different positions.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

But Penei had that elite tape. I'm not saying you're wrong about Rosengarten in particular, but his measurements and testing look very comparable to Sam Cosmi, to me, and we all know how that turned out. Cosmi and Rosengarten, and Penei all have roughly 33 inch arms, or just over. 

 

I think Cosmi could have stayed at RT.  Maybe wouldn't have been as good, but more than anything, he just needed a consistent role.  That ended up being guard based on surrounding personnel, but if we'd kept Scherff, I bet he would have been a fine RT instead.

 

But Cosmi's Texas film also looked like guard film because of how uneven and unschooled his pass pro sets were.  Rosengarten's feet in pass pro are probably his most notable strength.  His sets look good and fluid.  He's got change of direction speed--mirror laterally, as well as going backwards to forwards--saw him bucket step and then jump set an edge who kind of set up in contain in the Oregon game.  You would want to use his strength for mirroring outside speed at tackle.

 

Where I trust him less is holding blocks against good power rushers who are skilled hand fighters.  Winzit's right that power is his flaw--he's got quick hands but his grip isn't great, and I think he'd struggle anchoring NFL IDL power.  Might as well play him where he's the most natural fit and get the benefit of someone athletic enough to play on islands.

[Warhead36]

Na, Cosmi was a trash T. He got dominated. At G he's gonna end up being a Pro Bowler. He should have been a G from the get go but once again, Rivera didn't know what he was doing.

[RWJ]

Trade our 2 2nd rounders to move back into the 1st and draft a starting LT and then draft Rosengarten with one of our 3rds.  Got our bookends. 

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Trade our 2 2nd rounders to move back into the 1st and draft a starting LT and then draft Rosengarten with one of our 3rds.  Got our bookends. 

Unless its Joe Alt none of the Ts are worth packaging both of our 2nds for. The drop off to the 2nd round of Ts isn't that bad. I'd rather get two players than one.

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Unless its Joe Alt none of the Ts are worth packaging both of our 2nds for. The drop off to the 2nd round of Ts isn't that bad. I'd rather get two players than one.

I disagree.  If OLUMUYIWA FASHANU is there in the mid 1st, I make the trade.  I got Morgan on my wishlist but his arms are too short for OT. 

Edited April 11 by RWJ

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I disagree.  If OLUMUYIWA FASHANU is there in the mid 1st, I make the trade.  

I like Fashanu too but 36 + 40 is too much for him. I don't think he's that much better than, say, Kiran amawhateverhisnameis who we can probably get at 36. And there are too many good WRs that I'd love to snag at 40 as well. Those two combined are worth more than Fashanu.

 

But honestly if we did move up for Fashanu, I wouldn't hate it. He's a stud pass protector and only 21 years old.

Edited April 11 by Warhead36

[mudhog]

9 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Trade our 2 2nd rounders to move back into the 1st and draft a starting LT and then draft Rosengarten with one of our 3rds.  Got our bookends. 

More and more mocks have Mims and Guyton falling to our natural picks at 36 and 40. Don't know what's changed as far as draft need with teams in the first, but I am warming to the idea of sitting tight at certain spots while trading down for others. It's amazing to be at pick 222 and still have 3 solid players to pick.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, mudhog said:

More and more mocks have Mims and Guyton falling to our natural picks at 36 and 40. Don't know what's changed as far as draft need with teams in the first, but I am warming to the idea of sitting tight at certain spots while trading down for others. It's amazing to be at pick 222 and still have 3 solid players to pick.

Love the idea of getting 2 quality players at #36 and #40 but we need two bookend OTs.  Thus, the trade for FASHANU if there in the mid 1st.  I don't think Guyton falls to #36 but he'd be more of a project and we need to protect the rook QB.  

[mudhog]

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Love the idea of getting 2 quality players at #36 and #40 but we need two bookend OTs.  Thus, the trade for FASHANU if there in the mid 1st.  I don't think Guyton falls to #36 but he'd be more of a project and we need to protect the rook QB.  

No, I am talking about taking Mims at 36 and Guyton at 40. I'd rather have both of these guys than only one Fashanu. But, they both probably wont fall that far in reality, so just take the one that's left and go after Fisher, or Kiran, or Rosengarten or Paul in the 3rd. I'm also warming to GoingCommando's theory that we don't have to have studs at LT and RT. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Na, Cosmi was a trash T. He got dominated. At G he's gonna end up being a Pro Bowler. He should have been a G from the get go but once again, Rivera didn't know what he was doing.

 

What are you talking about?  He had a 75 grade from PFF at RT as a rookie. He had a 72 grade juggling between RT and RG in '22, and played most of his snaps injured on top of that.  He's always been good and was one of the only legit good draft picks Ron made.  He would be fine at tackle too.  Last season was as much about him gaining veterancy, making it through the whole year healthy, and having some stability beside and behind him as anything.  He's one of the best athletes at OL in the league, he could definitely play RT.

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, mudhog said:

No, I am talking about taking Mims at 36 and Guyton at 40. I'd rather have both of these guys than only one Fashanu. But, they both probably wont fall that far in reality, so just take the one that's left and go after Fisher, or Kiran, or Rosengarten or Paul in the 3rd. I'm also warming to GoingCommando's theory that we don't have to have studs at LT and RT. 

 

We'll be fine if we just get studs somewhere in the offense.  Get a stud left guard and that would be HUGE for the offense.  If we trade back into the first, go big game hunting.  Go get someone like Brian Thomas.  If we draft Thomas and Cooper Beebe, our offense will be strong even with Andrew Wylie and some kind of lousy platoon of swing tackles at LT.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Anyone have thoughts on Brandon Coleman out of TCU? Dane Brugler has him surprisingly highly rated at OT. Thinks he's a 2nd rounder.

 

P.S. I wouldn't say trash at RT, but Warhead is right in that Cosmi should have made the switch to G sooner. His contribution at G far exceeds his contributions at RT. Sometimes just let guys play where they're best.

 

 

[mudhog]

36 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

We'll be fine if we just get studs somewhere in the offense.  Get a stud left guard and that would be HUGE for the offense.  If we trade back into the first, go big game hunting.  Go get someone like Brian Thomas.  If we draft Thomas and Cooper Beebe, our offense will be strong even with Andrew Wylie and some kind of lousy platoon of swing tackles at LT.

I've started running my mocks with this idea in mind. For instance, if two of Mims, Guyton or Morgan were available to me at 36 and 40, I would pick two OTs. But often times there was guys like JPJ, D. Robinson, Kool-Aid, G. Barton, J. Newton and Chop available at 36. So, I started to take the highest rated player regardless if he was a OT or not. Obviously I am going to pick another QB if we've already taken ours at #2. 
 

I figure GMAP will already be thinking this way because it's probably basic GM-101, although it's a new concept to me. But I can see the logic in it. That being said, do all GM's see it this way? Just the good GMs? And what is the highest number of blue-chip players that you can recall on any given team? I suppose that your theory of 4-5 blue-chip players with another 9-11 very good players for support can be played-out by going back to SB winning teams of the past. Maybe not just the SB winning teams, but NFC/AFC champion teams would also support this theory?

Edited April 11 by mudhog

[The Rook]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Too many national reputable people are reporting it, that means someone is hearing from someone on the inside.

 

I think it means they are repeating the same thing because it is the "hot' guess and they are not getting anything from the inside.

 

In another week, JJ will be the hot pick.

 

Of course, this is just what I am hearing from my sources and is my guess about their guesses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[757SeanTaylor21]

Let's put it like this. Few years ago everybody was saying 49ers traded up for Mac Jones. Nobpdy knows anything.

[PlayAction]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

Love the idea of getting 2 quality players at #36 and #40 but we need two bookend OTs.  Thus, the trade for FASHANU if there in the mid 1st.  I don't think Guyton falls to #36 but he'd be more of a project and we need to protect the rook QB.  

2nd:  Jordan Morgan, Arizona, OT

2nd:  Darius Robinson, Missouri, EDGE

 

So, you would prefer to pass on Morgan and Robinson to get Fashanu?  I notice you didn't select any WRs in your mock draft. There might be some WRs available at 40 that are as highly rated as Robinson.  It's hard to say who would fit best in their plans since we don't have any idea of the defensive scheme. 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, mudhog said:

I've started running my mocks with this idea in mind. For instance, if two of Mims, Guyton or Morgan were available to me at 36 and 40, I would pick two OTs. But often times there was guys like JPJ, D. Robinson, Kool-Aid, G. Barton, J. Newton and Chop available at 36. So, I started to take the highest rated player regardless if he was a OT or not. Obviously I am going to pick another QB if we've already taken ours at #2. 
 

I figure GMAP will already be thinking this way because it's probably basic GM-101, although it's a new concept to me. But I can see the logic in it. That being said, do all GM's see it this way? Just the good GMs? And what is the highest number of blue-chip players that you can recall on any given team? I suppose that your theory of 4-5 blue-chip players with another 9-11 very good players for support can be played-out by going back to SB winning teams of the past. Maybe not just the SB winning teams, but NFC/AFC champion teams would also support this theory?

 

I think 4-5 truly elite players on a team might actually be too high of a bar.  I'm trying to think of a bunch of different examples of teams that can meet that bar, but if you set "truly elite" at players of the caliber of Chris Jones, Travis Kelce, and Tyreek Hill, the list is going to be thin.  Does Trent McDuffie make that cut?  Do Creed Humphrey or Joe Thuney?  The answer feels like no for all of them, but they also feel like something more than a Daron Payne or Terry McLauren caliber "occasional Probowler who is otherwise a really good role player."

 

Maybe we need another tier of player between the warrior elite guys who lead contenders, and the really good starters who fill them out and make them work.  And maybe that extra tier helps explain how teams that don't really have 4-5 guys in that elite tier of player still win Superbowls, like the Rams in SB 56.  And then you have to figure out how to translate the value of players in this tier into draft value/contract dollars.

 

Maybe we need to count QBs like Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson as two to make the 4-5 bar work?  Because I'm not really sure that Buffalo had anyone other than Josh Allen who would qualify for this tier last season, but they were still somehow a contender.  I'm also uncomfortable putting a player like Justin Madubuike in that tier, but if not him, then Lamar and Roquan were the only players on Baltimore's roster who meet the standard of elite.

 

Or maybe the fact that Buffalo and Baltimore couldn't meet the standard of at least 3 elite players on their roster helps explain why they couldn't beat KC.

[SkinsFTW]

17 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Or maybe the fact that Buffalo and Baltimore couldn't meet the standard of at least 3 elite players on their roster helps explain why they couldn't beat KC.

 

Baltimore didn't beat KC because Lamar did almost nothing most of the game and Mahomes is easily the most clutch player in the NFL with Brady retired. KC put up 17 but if Balt puts up 24 nobody doubts that KC puts up 27.

[RWJ]

30 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

2nd:  Jordan Morgan, Arizona, OT

2nd:  Darius Robinson, Missouri, EDGE

 

So, you would prefer to pass on Morgan and Robinson to get Fashanu?  I notice you didn't select any WRs in your mock draft. There might be some WRs available at 40 that are as highly rated as Robinson.  It's hard to say who would fit best in their plans since we don't have any idea of the defensive scheme. 

PA, it's a tough call.  Yes, IF we could land FASHANU by giving up our #36 and #40, I'd do it. Morgan will be a OG in the NFL due to his arm length.  FASHANU is a excellent pass blocker but needs to work on run blocking.  We need bookend OTs.  Rosengartnen could be had in the 3rd at RT.  Got to protect our QB.  

[Warhead36]

34 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think 4-5 truly elite players on a team might actually be too high of a bar.  I'm trying to think of a bunch of different examples of teams that can meet that bar, but if you set "truly elite" at players of the caliber of Chris Jones, Travis Kelce, and Tyreek Hill, the list is going to be thin.  Does Trent McDuffie make that cut?  Do Creed Humphrey or Joe Thuney?  The answer feels like no for all of them, but they also feel like something more than a Daron Payne or Terry McLauren caliber "occasional Probowler who is otherwise a really good role player."

 

Maybe we need another tier of player between the warrior elite guys who lead contenders, and the really good starters who fill them out and make them work.  And maybe that extra tier helps explain how teams that don't really have 4-5 guys in that elite tier of player still win Superbowls, like the Rams in SB 56.  And then you have to figure out how to translate the value of players in this tier into draft value/contract dollars.

 

Maybe we need to count QBs like Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson as two to make the 4-5 bar work?  Because I'm not really sure that Buffalo had anyone other than Josh Allen who would qualify for this tier last season, but they were still somehow a contender.  I'm also uncomfortable putting a player like Justin Madubuike in that tier, but if not him, then Lamar and Roquan were the only players on Baltimore's roster who meet the standard of elite.

 

Or maybe the fact that Buffalo and Baltimore couldn't meet the standard of at least 3 elite players on their roster helps explain why they couldn't beat KC.

What do you define as elite? To me elite is someone you can make a legit case for as the best in the league at his position. But not every position impacts the game the same. An elite SS isn't as near as impactful as an elite WR for example.

 

I'd say the Chiefs had four last year: Mahomes, Kelce, Humphrey, and Jones. For the Ravens I'd say two in Jackson and Hamilton. Bills only Allen(Diggs fell off hard but he'd be in that in years past). Niners I'd say four as well: McCaffery and Williams on offense and Bosa and Greenlaw on defense(MAYBE Samuel, he's such a unique player though and is basically positionless its hard to really say, he's more of an x factor than an elite cornerstone player IMO).

[mhd24]

No way Robinson makes it to 36.  He's scheduled to attend the draft.  The NFL isn't inviting players to sit all day and not get picked.