2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Joe Alt

 

For a dude that is 6'8, he sinks his hips well and gets low.  He doesn't look that physically imposing -- arms, upper body aren't bad but still don't look at strong as the typical tackle in the NFL.  He was pushed back on some plays.  But overall, really good player.   I like Fashnu more as a pass blocker than Alt and I like Alt more as a run blocker than Fashnu.  At least based on the 2 games I watched.  I'll ultimately watch more. 

 

Alt is a sound-consistent player. It's been eons since I watched Samuels but maybe Alt's ceiling is more like Chris Samuels where Fashnu is Trent?  From what i've watched I'd be happy with Fashnu or Alt or Fuaga.  My point is I'd trade down if possible if Harrison isn't there and or they don't take Bowers.  Not that Fashnu is a reach at lets say pick 5 but to me Alt and Fuaga are close enough to him albiet all three are different flavor players.

 

I think Fashnu's ceiling is the highest in pass protect.  Alt is more of an all around guy.  And Fauga has the highest run blocking ceiling.  I think Fashnu has the highest long term upside.  I think all three are going to be good NFL players.

 

Back to Alt

 

Positives

Super long

Moves well -- long legs, can motor to the 2nd level.

Does a nice job on stunts

good balance in pass protect

Anchors well

Mirrors well

Fluid hand useage

As a tall dude, he can still sink his hips and get low

 

Negatives

Saw him give up a pressure to a speed rush

over the course of one game I watched I gather he got tired in the run game because he played with less force as the game progressed

Wasn't impressed with what I saw when he pulled, missed assignments

With his height and lack of girth -- wonder if he can get overpowered by bull rushers in the pros.  Feels like he needs to add some muscle.

On occasion defenders can get to his chest and he loses leverage

 

 

 

Good hype video for Alt

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

 

[Going Commando]

Damn that Oregon center is fast.  Absolutely chugging along with that tiny stride.  Looks comical until you see him hit somebody like a truck, or throw a block 40 yards down field.  He is exceptionally fast, explosive, and coordinated.  Plus an absolute dog of a blocker.  I'm loving his cut ups, good find KB.  This guy is a dude.

[DWinzit]

10 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Damn that Oregon center is fast.  Absolutely chugging along with that tiny stride.  Looks comical until you see him hit somebody like a truck, or throw a block 40 yards down field.  He is exceptionally fast, explosive, and coordinated.  Plus an absolute dog of a blocker.  I'm loving his cut ups, good find KB.  This guy is a dude.

He is quick and tough! I had to look up his height, they are saying 6' 3". If that's right, he should be a dude as long as he has arm length. I like him.

 

Shorter C could benefit Howell.

 

If drafting him or Van Pran who I also like, are we passing on Strom, saying he can be a backup, will need to make it as a G?

Edited November 23, 2023 by DWinzit

[Going Commando]

First step is elite.  Anchor and punch power are fantastic.  Recovery speed is fantastic.  Ability to climb and change directions/adjust to targets looks special.  Playing demeanor is ideal.

 

I think Jackson Powers Johnson is first round caliber, even though I doubt his testing numbers and measurements will be that great.  The magic is in the film with him.  He reminds me of Meinerz, who was underdrafted despite every draftnik in the world knowing he was good.

 

Both this guy and Van Pran are way better than the centers in last years class.

[Skinsinparadise]

1. Chicago Bears (via 1-9 CAR)

Yates: We might look back at Chicago's decision to trade down with Carolina in March as one of the most impactful of recent years. Not only did the Bears bring in extra picks and a WR1 in DJ Moore, they also landed this projected No. 1 pick in 2024 -- a massive coup. And while quarterback Justin Fields has had moments of promise, our FPI projects the Bears' own pick to be No. 5 overall. If that happens, it's unlikely Fields showed dramatic improvement over the rest of the season, meaning a reset at quarterback is probably in play.

 

Miller: Yup, if the Bears don't turn things around, Fields is likely gone, and the front office will look to reset the quarterback clock. Let's remember that general manager Ryan Poles didn't draft Fields and must make a decision after this season on the quarterback's fifth-year option. To date, Fields hasn't shown enough to be paid like a top-tier quarterback, and the opportunity to draft a younger player with more promise (who also happens to be much cheaper) is super intriguing.

And we haven't even gotten to USC's Caleb Williams yet, widely seen not only as the No. 1 prospect in this class and also a generational prospect. He's a franchise-changer. Look at what C.J. Stroud has done in his first season in Houston; Williams can be that and more for the Bears.

 

...Yates: The Bears should be able to recoup a little bit of draft capital for Fields, too. While his inconsistency as a thrower is part of why they are in this spot, his mobility and flashes will have some allure to other teams, whether it be as a starter or backup. He would cost a team about $3.2 million for 2024, a totally reasonable cost.

Miller: And there would be a market for him. Just look at how many teams outside the top two picks have a need at the position and won't be able to fill it with a premium player. I love the Falcons for him if they're not in play to draft one of the top QBs. Fields is from Georgia and originally played for the in-state Bulldogs. And if Arthur Smith is back as coach, Fields fits the RPO-heavy offense Smith was running as the offensive coordinator in Tennessee and earlier last season with Marcus Mariota. Tampa Bay, Las Vegas, Minnesota and maybe even Pittsburgh could theoretically get involved if Fields were to become available.

Reid: I think we're all in agreement here. Williams is special and has the talent to eventually change the trajectory of a franchise. And while Chicago moved back this past spring when it had the No. 1 pick, there just isn't a scenario where any trade offer would make me trade back this time.

Our pick for the Bears: Caleb Williams, QB, USC

 

 

2. New York Giants (3-8)

Reid: I'd argue the Giants also have to go quarterback if they are picking here. I know they just paid Daniel Jones in March, but being able to land one of the draft's top two passers changes things. I love the mobility and accuracy of North Carolina's Drake Maye, and we see him manipulate coverages and attack all three levels of the field every Saturday. His pocket patience continues to improve, too. Maye processes quickly and understands where the weak points are in defenses. I think he could thrive with coach Brian Daboll. The Giants' offensive line is still a work in progress, but Maye is poised under center and could be a star in the NFL.

Miller: There's a very good chance Maye would have been my QB1 for 2023 based on his arm strength, mobility and ball placement. He's Justin Herbert to me. Maye has thrown for 3,354 yards with 22 touchdown passes and 7 interceptions this season, and he has rushed for another eight scores.

Yates: Yeah, there's so much to like about his game. He's no consolation prize for the team that misses out on Williams; he's an excellent prospect. Now, drafting Maye of course means New York would be moving on from Jones, a task much easier said than done. Jones is due $35.5 million fully guaranteed in 2024, a massive price tag for a player coming off a poor season and a torn ACL. But when you have the opportunity to reset the quarterback clock with a franchise-altering talent, you swallow the sunk costs and move on.

Miller: Exactly. The best thing any franchise can do when it makes a mistake -- especially at quarterback -- is admit it early and move on before it's too late. That's where the Giants are with Jones. I know they just signed him to a four-year deal, but his injury history and uneven play (Jones is 27th in QBR at 39.2) suggest it's already time for a change.

Reid: If they do move on from Jones, I don't see any way they could keep him around as a backup. GM Joe Schoen just has to get what he can for Jones, even if it takes a Brock Osweiler-type trade where New York has to attach a conditional pick.

 

Yates: The best bet for finding a trade partner might be letting the QB carousel spin through free agency and surveying what's left. Any teams out there that struck out on a veteran quarterback but aren't in position to draft someone impactful? The Giants could then agree to eat a chunk of Jones' base salary to make a trade more palatable for an acquiring team. And Jones has no guaranteed money beyond 2024, so any new team would have zero negative cap ramifications if it does not work out.

Miller: OK, I think we all like Maye here, even if we aren't the ones making the tough decisions. One more thought before we move on: Some might wonder whether New York would try to move down to pick up assets and just keep Jones. Look, I am always going to advocate for trading back, but in this case, the Giants have to stay in the top three. I see three blue-chip players at positions of need for the Giants -- Williams, Maye and Ohio State receiver Marvin Harrison Jr. New York has to land one of them.

Our pick for the Giants: Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

 

 

6. Washington Commanders (4-7)

Miller: New team owner Josh Harris wants to return the Commanders to the glory days of the 80s and 90s when the Hogs dominated the NFC. The best way to do that is to rebuild a struggling offensive line, especially since quarterback Sam Howell has taken a league-high 51 sacks this season. Alt is too obvious. He's the son of former NFL guard John Alt and plays with the poise, power and tenacity of an old-school blocker. And he has allowed just one sack all season.

 

Yates: Alt is a 6-foot-8 left tackle who just doesn't allow pressure. He might not have the suddenness or foot quickness of Fashanu, but the man is under control on every rep and makes a job of chaos look calm. Incumbent starter Charles Leno Jr. is 32, going into the final year of his deal and has zero guaranteed money leftover in that final year.

Reid: Yeah, coach Ron Rivera is on the hot seat, too, so Washington could have a new front office in place by draft time. Whenever there's a new front office, premium positions are crucial. This team has to get better up front, as Leno and Andrew Wylie have been woefully inconsistent this season. This one seems like a simple call.

Miller: It's also important to note that the tackles ranked immediately after Alt -- JC Latham (Alabama), Amarius Mims (Georgia) and Tyler Guyton (Oklahoma) -- all play the right side, so this is the last chance to get an elite left tackle. I don't have another left tackle ranked inside my top 25, and that's where the bigger need is right now.

Reid: That's what makes this tackle class so interesting. After the top two in Fashanu and Alt, the entire second tier consists only of right tackle prospects. (I'd also put Oregon State's Taliese Fuaga in that group, Matt.)

Yates: If Turner were still on the board, we might have a larger conversation since the Commanders traded away both Sweat and Chase Young at the deadline. Edge rusher is a massive need, and Turner is terrific. Plus, he goes to Alabama, the Commanders' front-seven Triple A team. With Turner off the board, though, this is an easy one. Alt is the pick.

Our pick for the Commanders: Joe Alt, OT, Notre Dame

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/38936326/2024-nfl-mock-draft-top-10-picks-debate-predictions

9 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

He is quick and tough! I had to look up his height, they are saying 6' 3". If that's right, he should be a dude as long as he has arm length. I like him.

 

Shorter C could benefit Howell.

 

If drafting him or Van Pran who I also like, are we passing on Strom, saying he can be a backup, will need to make it as a G?

 

I don't love passing on Stromberg.  i don't think he's a natural guard.  So for me at least in theory I am more into a LG.   If Stromberg is just relegated to backup status it makes their 2023 draft look even more pathetic.

[DWinzit]

8 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

First step is elite.  Anchor and punch power are fantastic.  Recovery speed is fantastic.  Ability to climb and change directions/adjust to targets looks special.  Playing demeanor is ideal.

 

I think Jackson Powers Johnson is first round caliber, even though I doubt his testing numbers and measurements will be that great.  The magic is in the film with him.  He reminds me of Meinerz, who was underdrafted despite every draftnik in the world knowing he was good.

 

Both this guy and Van Pran are way better than the centers in last years class.

I tend to agree with this based on what very little I have seen.

BTW, Meinerz did get drafted. He just went in the third round but probably could have gone in the second. I am assuming we are talking Quinn Meinerz

[Skinsinparadise]

Just watched Jat'avion Sanders a bit deeper than my previous mention.   5 star recruit, 6 '4, 243, TE

 

I like him.  Don't love him.  As for his build, he reminds me of Cooley.  My intrigue with him is YAC he can really motor and is fast for a TE with his ball in his hands.  Had some drops, fumbles.

 

But if you want to throw screens, hitches, shallow crossers to a TE like this offense tends to do, he's the dude.  While he's fast -- his elusiveness is OK, nothing special from what I saw but if he's in space he can take off with the ball in his hands and juke defenders in open space. 

 

Doesn't have the build I'd guess to be much of a blocker in the NFL, doesn't seem that physical from what I watched as to contested catches but he is physical with the ball in his hands, he will break tackles with an eye to the end zone-first down marker.

 

To me 3rd round.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Aj Barner, TE Michigan.  6 '6, 251.  A more athletic John Bates?  It was hard for me to miss Corum watching Barner.  Corum is a really elusive dude even in small space.   With his frame size he looks like in that Emmitt Smith mode -- low center of gravity. 

 

Watched 2 games.  Barner is a really good run blocker.  Some of the Michigan explosive runs have him as a big part of it, parting the seas, or hitting the 2nd level down field to spring it.   He's more of a get in front of his guy blocker than physical blocker, though he brings some physicality, but he's very assignment sound, he hits his blocks.

 

He's not much of a target in their offense.  didn't see much of him on that front.  From what I can see, he has good hands but he's not the most elusive guy or hits me as a YAC guy.  He's more of a 2nd TE type so for that reason 6th roundish?  But I think a real solid pick in that range.  Jay Gruden loves to say part of the reason why from what he sees there is a limit to this run game is we don't have TEs sans Bates who can block.  This dude can block and unlike Bates has the athleticim to hit that 2nd level.   As a receiver, hard for me to tell his potential but he has the physicality as a player to be a good contested catch guy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

It's therapeutic for me to watch some college players considering how this season is going and the draft capital we have to play with. 

 

I think I've already seen enough already that last years TE class >> this year.  Bowers is special.  But I don't know if there is another great TE prospect.  This TE crop on first glance feels average, nothing great.   For now, I think Stover would be my #2 but a clear 2 pegs if not more behind Bowers.   

 

i like Stover, don't love him.  But I think he has a high floor so i think he will be a solid NFL player.  I don't see much bust in him.

 

I watched him some last year when I thought he was coming out in that draft.  But just refreshed.   6 '4, 251, TE.  He is an older prospect, he will be 24 next season.

 

He is a traditional TE in that he gets open on the 2nd level in between the numbers, skinny posts, crossers, etc.    He's a complete TE.  Strong hands.   Finds holes in the zone.  Will chip get off his block and get open quickly in the flat.   When the QB has to scramble and readjust the play, Stover is aware and tries to be a quick outlet for the QB.  So nice security blanket type.

 

I like him as a blocker but I think he's a little overrated on that front.  i liked what i saw from Barner more on that front.  He will miss some assignments and he is not always consistent but he's certainly good enough.

 

I'd say his super power is he's an underneath zone beater, you can see him on some of his plays watch defenders and clearly he has a plan how to get open based on what he sees. He's a try hard physical player but doesn't seen fast or have special athletic traits but he's fast enough for a TE, he's not slow, or at least he doesn't look it to my eyes pre combine.  So i'd say average athleticism.

 

You wonder some about his ability to get open is helped by the WRs who occupy their opponents who they double team.

 

I think he's a solid late third round pick, maybe 4th round.    Good 2nd TE type because he can block and is a good weapon, too.  i don't think he will be a killer weapon in the NFL -- I think sort of a Cooley light but probably a better blocker than Cooley.  I got to watch him more.  He's the type of player who typically grows on my with further watches.  Will see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Could be 4.5's.  I guess will find out in the combine.

 

 

you are cherry picking the TD count as the defining stat even though it isn't.

 

He had the 2nd most yards for a TE in the history of the NFL for a rookie.  And did so for the 29th ranked offense in the NFL.  If that doesn't mean historically great - then I gather it's only whose first, Ditka makes the cut, not 2nd for you.

 

Have at it.  I don't care. 

Again 1 TD is not "historically great".  It's just not and that number IS significant if we are calling it an all time historically great season.   The 29th ranked offense he played in in 2021 threw for 3,713 yards.  20 years ago the 28th ranked offense threw for 2,541 yards. I have no idea why you can't see how the era Pitts played skewed his numbers.  

Edited November 23, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

Again 1 TD is not "historically great".  It's just not. The 29th ranked offense in 2021 threw for 3,713 yards.  20 years ago the 28th ranked offense threw for 2,541 yards. I have no idea why you can't see how the era Pitts played skewed his numbers.  

If there were only other TEs who played in this era. We just had the 1960s and then bam we arrived at 2021 with a sample size of Pitts and maybe 3 other TEs playing in this era. The TE is like the fullback spot, most teams apparently don’t even use a TE. 
 

Look after making my point, I don’t give a crap. You want to believe that there was nothing special about his rookie season.  That’s cool. I couldn’t disagree more. It I think is a boring argument on this thread. We both made our points why not move on?

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Miller: It's also important to note that the tackles ranked immediately after Alt -- JC Latham (Alabama), Amarius Mims (Georgia) and Tyler Guyton (Oklahoma) -- all play the right side, so this is the last chance to get an elite left tackle. I don't have another left tackle ranked inside my top 25, and that's where the bigger need is right now.

 

I feel a bit ridiculous opining on this class since I've not watched a single game but that has not stopped me before

 

I'd venture Chris Paul's brother Patrick Paul Houston could be a LT riser. 

[KDawg]

Watched some guards and centers today (I woke up early). Guards first.

 

Cooper Beebe, Kansas State, LG - This dude is gigantic. I'm not exaggerating. The guy looks like the Michelin Man but mostly muscle and not air. He is borderline abusive with the way he plays. Defenders make a move and he takes it personally and he just beats them up. He moves well for such a gigantic human. He's listed as 6-4 335... but he looks like he's bigger and moves like he's smaller. He's got a really strong anchor, too. Good God, man. He does a REALLY nice job at the second level. If I had to pick a negative it would be that while his foot speed is fast, his run speed can look a bit plodding. But he's a monster of a man.

 

Troy Fautanu, Washington, Projects to Guard, LT - Has a real fast kick step at tackle, that will only look better at guard. He is explosive and athletic but not violent. He can pull and finds his targets pretty well when he does so. He is legitimately fast for an IOL and he maximizes his potential at the second level. I worry a little about his anchor in the interior against those behemoths at the 2i/3-techniques, though. 

 

Zak Zinter, Michigan, RG - One thing that really stands out is he looks like a freight train when he pulls. He definitely has an incredibly strong anchor and he can have a mean streak at times. He has a never stop blocking mentality, especially down by the goal line. Technically sound aside from a penchant to drop his head at times and that throws off his balance. But one thing that makes me a bit more nervous on Zinter is that he takes some bad angles at times on his cut off blocks and reaches and the DL can get by him easier than I'd like. Watching Zinter REALLY made Blake Corum pop, though. Runningbacks will be fun. 

 

Christian Haynes, UConn, RG - I could only find one game for him and it was against Utah State. Stout, strong and powerful. Does a nice job keeping his feet moving and maintaining a sound base to play from. Efficiently chips off the first level and into the second level and has a strong stab arm. Gets square into contact. Doesn't get displaced is pass protection and locks on his target. Wish there was more to go off on him, but I like what I see. I'd just like to be able to confirm it. 

 

Tate Ratledge, Georgia, RG - Probably not a great sign that when I watch him Van Pran pops. Though, that isn't really all that much of a negative I suppose. Ratledge is nasty at level 2. I'd hate to be a linebacker watching him coming downhill at me with a heart full of ill intent. He's really tall and not as big of a guard weight wise. Really sound technique and he is another guy who just doesn't get displaced. But sometimes he turns his head mid play to see what is going on and loses his block when he does it. There is something to be said for playing with his eyes and wanting to be available if the play breaks down. But, at the same time, that can be dangerous at the next level. He's also not the most athletic guard that I've seen. 

 

Javion Cohen, Miami, LG - Good anchor and his power is very easily noticeable on film. He'll make contact with a guy on a down block and miss and the guy still gets displaced by a few yards. He is a mauler type who relies on superior strength and explosion. His feet are sometimes a little too sticky in the grass in pass protection but he is very explosive into contact at all times in every set. He leans, so he loses blocks at times. In watching Miami/Clemson you can see how disruptive Trotter, Jr. is, but Cohen does a nice job on him the few times he has to contact him at the LoS.

 

Donovan Jackson, Ohio State, LG - Okay this is becoming a bit of a theme, but watching Jackson and my eyes kept going to whatever the hell Marvin Harrison was doing. Dude can run, catch, block... he does it all. Anyways, this is about Donovan Jackson. Jackson does a really nice job with eye discipline. His reach blocks are next level. He owns the defensive tackles. Athletic and agile. Not as strong as some of the other guys that are being talked about here, but he has great balance and intelligence. He drives his legs. Sometimes he looks a little "top heavy" meaning his chest is too far over his toes in technique and that creates some issues when going against bigger/stronger DTs. 

 

Miles Frazier, LSU, RG - He is violent and strong. He has a tough job. Daniels is all over the place on pass plays. He loves to move off the spot which makes the OL's job a lot harder. He has a strong punch that he really relies on. The issue I have with that is that because he relies on his punch he often punches first and moves feet second. Which can lead to a few too many whiffs for my liking. He has a motor that keeps on turning and has the size and athleticism you want. He plays too high, though, because of his love of his punch. That needs to be straightened out to get to the next level of his development. But he has the tools. 

 

Christian Mahogany, Boston College, RG -  He is big and stout in pass protection and he uses his wide frame to his advantage. He is a people mover as well and does a really nice job understanding second level defensive flow as he gets to the second level. In pass pro, though, he has a bit of a sloppy kick slide. If you watch he jump sets most pass protection sets, which is okay as long as the guy goes where you think he's going to go. If he spikes or slants opposite the anticipated direction it puts him in a tough spot. 

 

Connor Colby, Iowa, RG - Plays to the whistle on every play. Aggressive. Makes quick decisions. Has a good base and covers good ground with his kick step. When he gets knocked back in pass rush he does a really good job of countering with a hop, hop, drive move to regain his base and create some space. Colby at times struggles with quicker targets. Linebackers who head fake, dip and rip into the A-Gap after showing a B-Gap pressure are a pain point for him. Having that said, I have a feeling Colby is going to go back to Iowa for the '24 season to get the seasoning he needs to be a top guard in the '25 draft class. 

 

Guard Rankings:

1. Cooper Beebe, Kansas State, LG

2. Zak Zinter, Michigan, RG

3. Christian Haynes, UConn, RG

4. Tate Ratledge, Georgia, RG

5. Donovan Jackson, Ohio State, LG

6. Javion Cohen, Miami, LG

7. Miles Frazier, LSU, RG

8. Troy Fautanu, Washington, LT->G

9. Christian Mahogany, Boston College, RG

10. Connor Colby, Iowa, RG

 

Centers:

 

Sedrick Van Pran, Georgia - He was my #1 last year before he decided to go back to school. That isn't going to change this year. If anything he has strengthened his claim. He has a really fast snap/punch combo and can anchor against literal giants in a 0-technique. Georgia quarterbacks have absolutely no worries with Van Pran at center. He is a true leader up front and in turn it allows the other Georgia OL to shine just as much as he helps the QB shine. The way he plays with his head on a swivel and can pass off stunts like he's already a pro (and much better than we've seen for the Commanders this season). Against an even front he does a nice job comboing to a backer and is a true brick wall.

 

Jackson Powers-Johnson, Oregon - Really good base. One thing that stands out is his flexibility. It's not something you usually notice about an OL... but there are defenders that overpower his upper body and he somehow contorts his back, which looks like a backwards "C", and holds them off at the point of attack. It's actually unbelievable to watch. He clamps onto his assignment and doesn't let them breathe. And his second level prowess is absolutely tremendous. I watched one play where he overran the defender at the second level and instead of panicking and reaching out and holding him he just turned his back and set a basketball screen. Incredibly heady decision.

 

Beaux Limmer, Arkansas - I don't know what's in the water at Arkansas, but they know how to produce centers. Watching the Alabama game he made some of the blocks look absolutely effortless. He's another guy with an incredibly fast snap to block time. He can snap and get to an upfield rushing three-tech and wall them off. He plays with great balance and passes off blocks really well. He plays with a flow. If I had to pick an area that I'd like to see improvement its in his second level blocking. He gets there but he loses his balance sometimes when getting out there. But this dude is a hell of a prospect. 

 

Drake Nugent, Michigan - Once again, Corum pops. But in regards to Nugent, you don't want to lose your balance as a DT against him. He will pancake you and let you know by falling on top of you to prove a point. He loves his club through technique on quick pass, but doesn't always execute it well because he's not physically dominant. Works really well in combo blocks and uses his body in a meaningful way. 

 

Zach Frazier, West Virginia - He's a "move" center. They use him on pulls. He isn't as strong as any of the others I've talked about so far in reference to being a people mover and dominating with power. But what he does is use leverage and coils well. He has extremely fast feet and can do anything you want him to do. He is a perfect fit for a zone scheme. In fact, I think this guy would be a heck of a fit for the Commanders. I'd like to see him add 10ish pounds to get to around 315 as a playing weight, but he fits what this team needs (at least until we have a new offensive scheme, then your mileage may vary)

 

Bryce Foster, Texas A&M - He's another "move" center. They like to pull him. He is okay on pulls, sometimes he lowers his head and misses contact. His feet are usually in adequate position but he throws his punch real violently which leads to balance issues. He's big at 330 lbs but he doesn't look like a 330 pound player. He just doesn't have the power you'd like from a man that large. Though he is agile. 

 

Andrew Raym, Oklahoma - Very stout and competitive player. He looks like he puts 100% effort into everything that he does. He gets pushed back a bit in pass pro and lunges a bit too often. Not sure what his NFL potential is. I will keep watching to see if I feel better about his prospect. But I love his motor and energy and I do think there is a place for that in the NFL. 

 

Matt Lee, Miami - Little bias creeps in here as I am a Canes fan. I love how energetic he is. Not only does he play with effort, but his energy just flows. He is a move center. They like to get him moving on screens and runs. He runs his feet and keeps them running. Great at combo blocking. But now I have to let my bias go. I don't know that he has NFL strength and he plays too high, which makes him fall off of blocks at times. More than once I've seen him literally fall into his own OL and blow up a play. I like him. Love his energy. Not sure he is going to get drafted.

 

Dylan McMahon, NC State - He is incredibly strong. He's on Feldman's "Freaks" list with a power clean of 400+ and a 32" vert... for a 300+ pound human. He moves well. But he loves playing with his hands and not his feet. That usually doesn't translate well to the next level. He's a guy that can get onto a NFL roster as a UDFA, gain some more size and refine technique and can stick to a NFL roster for a long time.

 

Justin Dedich, USC - Strong anchor, powerful, does well against bigger targets. He plays tall and when linebackers or quicker defenders get into him he struggles to stick with his blocks. Doesn't have the second level range of a lot of these guys. 

 

 

 

Center Rankings:

 

1. Sedrick Van Pran, Georgia

2. Jackson Powers-Johnson, Oregon

3. Beaux Limmer, Arkansas

4. Zach Frazier, West Virginia

5. Drake Nugent, Michigan

6. Bryce Foster, Texas A&M

7. Dylan McMahon, NC State

8. Andrew Raym, Oklahoma

9. Matt Lee, Miami

10. Justin Dedich, USC

 

I think after Foster we get into a world where some of these guys just aren't going to get drafted. So the center batch is solid, but thin.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

Just now, KDawg said:

Donovan Jackson, Ohio State, LG - Okay this is becoming a bit of a theme, but watching Jackson and my eyes kept going to whatever the hell Marvin Harrison was doing. Dude can run, catch, block... he does it all. Anyways, this is about Donovan Jackson. Jackson does a really nice job with eye discipline. His reach blocks are next level. He owns the defensive tackles. Athletic and agile. Not as strong as some of the other guys that are being talked about here, but he has great balance and intelligence. He drives his legs. Sometimes he looks a little "top heavy" meaning his chest is too far over his toes in technique and that creates some issues when going against bigger/stronger DTs. 

 

That's my dude. Love him as a prospect.

[KDawg]

If I was ranking the OL as a whole and had to do a top 10...

 

1. Cooper Beebe, G, Kansas State

2. Olu Fashanu, T, Penn State

3. Sedrick Van Pran, C, Georgia

4. Amarius Mims, T, Georgia

5. Taliese Fuaga, T, Oregon State

6. Joe Alt, T, Notre Dame

7. Zak Zinter, G, Michigan

8. JC Latham, T, Alabama

9. Jackson Powers-Johnson, C, Oregon

10. Jordan Morgan, T, Arizona / Patrick Paul, T, Houston

 

I think Beebe is the class of the '24 class as of this moment. But he will not be the first, second or even third OL taken due to being a guard. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by KDawg

[philibusters]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If I was ranking the OL as a whole and had to do a top 10...

 

1. Cooper Beebe, G, Kansas State

2. Olu Fashanu, T, Penn State

3. Sedrick Van Pran, C, Georgia

4. Amarius Mims, T, Oklahoma

5. Taliese Fuaga, T, Oregon State

6. Joe Alt, T, Notre Dame

7. Zak Zinter, G, Michigan

8. JC Latham, T, Alabama

9. Jackson Powers-Johnson, C, Oregon

10. Jordan Morgan, T, Arizona / Patrick Paul, T, Houston

 

I think Beebe is the class of the '23 class as of this moment. But he will not be the first, second or even third OL taken due to being a guard. 

 

Amarius Mims is at Georgia

[KDawg]

Just now, philibusters said:

 

Amarius Mims is at Georgia

Yup. Mistype.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I tend to agree with this based on what very little I have seen.

BTW, Meinerz did get drafted. He just went in the third round but probably could have gone in the second. I am assuming we are talking Quinn Meinerz

Underdrafted, not undrafted.  Meinerz should have been a first round pick.  He was the star of SB week and most sites had him conservatively projected to the second round.  Funny looking IOLs with blocky builds and not great height/length get undervalued by the NFL, even when they are asskickers with dominant film.

 

Powers Johnson looks first round worthy, and his play is arguably cleaner and better than Van Pran's.  But I would be surprised if he goes in the first round.  Second is more likely, third on the table.  He has a really short striding run style that leads to great CoD but probably a crappy 40 time, and he's only 6'3 and looks maxed out.

[Koolblue13]

I could see Powers Johnson with our natural 3rd, Van Pran with our Bears 2nd. I'd be really really happy with either of them.

 

I'd really like to come out of the first two days with 2 OTs and a OC.

 

I'm not giving up on Strom, I like him a lot, but he didn't beat out Gates or Larson and is injured.

 

While I think you need to draft OT really early, it's becoming more important to have a strong IOL and especially at Center. It's not a coincidence that most of the top offenses have probowl Centers.

 

We talk about passing on Darrisaw for Davis in 21, buy I think passing on Lindstrom for Dotson was a bigger mistake and of course last season I was big on JMS over Martin.

 

We saw what a huge difference having Larson come in for Gates made, the same way we say how our offense changed when Roullier went down. 

[Koolblue13]

30 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Watched some guards and centers today (I woke up early). Guards first.

 

Cooper Beebe, Kansas State, LG - This dude is gigantic. I'm not exaggerating. The guy looks like the Michelin Man but mostly muscle and not air. He is borderline abusive with the way he plays. Defenders make a move and he takes it personally and he just beats them up. He moves well for such a gigantic human. He's listed as 6-4 335... but he looks like he's bigger and moves like he's smaller. He's got a really strong anchor, too. Good God, man. He does a REALLY nice job at the second level. If I had to pick a negative it would be that while his foot speed is fast, his run speed can look a bit plodding. But he's a monster of a man.

 

Troy Fautanu, Washington, Projects to Guard, LT - Has a real fast kick step at tackle, that will only look better at guard. He is explosive and athletic but not violent. He can pull and finds his targets pretty well when he does so. He is legitimately fast for an IOL and he maximizes his potential at the second level. I worry a little about his anchor in the interior against those behemoths at the 2i/3-techniques, though. 

 

Zak Zinter, Michigan, RG - One thing that really stands out is he looks like a freight train when he pulls. He definitely has an incredibly strong anchor and he can have a mean streak at times. He has a never stop blocking mentality, especially down by the goal line. Technically sound aside from a penchant to drop his head at times and that throws off his balance. But one thing that makes me a bit more nervous on Zinter is that he takes some bad angles at times on his cut off blocks and reaches and the DL can get by him easier than I'd like. Watching Zinter REALLY made Blake Corum pop, though. Runningbacks will be fun. 

 

Christian Haynes, UConn, RG - I could only find one game for him and it was against Utah State. Stout, strong and powerful. Does a nice job keeping his feet moving and maintaining a sound base to play from. Efficiently chips off the first level and into the second level and has a strong stab arm. Gets square into contact. Doesn't get displaced is pass protection and locks on his target. Wish there was more to go off on him, but I like what I see. I'd just like to be able to confirm it. 

 

Tate Ratledge, Georgia, RG - Probably not a great sign that when I watch him Van Pran pops. Though, that isn't really all that much of a negative I suppose. Ratledge is nasty at level 2. I'd hate to be a linebacker watching him coming downhill at me with a heart full of ill intent. He's really tall and not as big of a guard weight wise. Really sound technique and he is another guy who just doesn't get displaced. But sometimes he turns his head mid play to see what is going on and loses his block when he does it. There is something to be said for playing with his eyes and wanting to be available if the play breaks down. But, at the same time, that can be dangerous at the next level. He's also not the most athletic guard that I've seen. 

 

Javion Cohen, Miami, LG - Good anchor and his power is very easily noticeable on film. He'll make contact with a guy on a down block and miss and the guy still gets displaced by a few yards. He is a mauler type who relies on superior strength and explosion. His feet are sometimes a little too sticky in the grass in pass protection but he is very explosive into contact at all times in every set. He leans, so he loses blocks at times. In watching Miami/Clemson you can see how disruptive Trotter, Jr. is, but Cohen does a nice job on him the few times he has to contact him at the LoS.

 

Donovan Jackson, Ohio State, LG - Okay this is becoming a bit of a theme, but watching Jackson and my eyes kept going to whatever the hell Marvin Harrison was doing. Dude can run, catch, block... he does it all. Anyways, this is about Donovan Jackson. Jackson does a really nice job with eye discipline. His reach blocks are next level. He owns the defensive tackles. Athletic and agile. Not as strong as some of the other guys that are being talked about here, but he has great balance and intelligence. He drives his legs. Sometimes he looks a little "top heavy" meaning his chest is too far over his toes in technique and that creates some issues when going against bigger/stronger DTs. 

 

Miles Frazier, LSU, RG - He is violent and strong. He has a tough job. Daniels is all over the place on pass plays. He loves to move off the spot which makes the OL's job a lot harder. He has a strong punch that he really relies on. The issue I have with that is that because he relies on his punch he often punches first and moves feet second. Which can lead to a few too many whiffs for my liking. He has a motor that keeps on turning and has the size and athleticism you want. He plays too high, though, because of his love of his punch. That needs to be straightened out to get to the next level of his development. But he has the tools. 

 

Christian Mahogany, Boston College, RG -  He is big and stout in pass protection and he uses his wide frame to his advantage. He is a people mover as well and does a really nice job understanding second level defensive flow as he gets to the second level. In pass pro, though, he has a bit of a sloppy kick slide. If you watch he jump sets most pass protection sets, which is okay as long as the guy goes where you think he's going to go. If he spikes or slants opposite the anticipated direction it puts him in a tough spot. 

 

Connor Colby, Iowa, RG - Plays to the whistle on every play. Aggressive. Makes quick decisions. Has a good base and covers good ground with his kick step. When he gets knocked back in pass rush he does a really good job of countering with a hop, hop, drive move to regain his base and create some space. Colby at times struggles with quicker targets. Linebackers who head fake, dip and rip into the A-Gap after showing a B-Gap pressure are a pain point for him. Having that said, I have a feeling Colby is going to go back to Iowa for the '24 season to get the seasoning he needs to be a top guard in the '25 draft class. 

 

Guard Rankings:

1. Cooper Beebe, Kansas State, LG

2. Zak Zinter, Michigan, RG

3. Christian Haynes, UConn, RG

4. Tate Ratledge, Georgia, RG

5. Donovan Jackson, Ohio State, LG

6. Javion Cohen, Miami, LG

7. Miles Frazier, LSU, RG

8. Troy Fautanu, Washington, LT->G

9. Christian Mahogany, Boston College, RG

10. Connor Colby, Iowa, RG

 

Centers:

 

Sedrick Van Pran, Georgia - He was my #1 last year before he decided to go back to school. That isn't going to change this year. If anything he has strengthened his claim. He has a really fast snap/punch combo and can anchor against literal giants in a 0-technique. Georgia quarterbacks have absolutely no worries with Van Pran at center. He is a true leader up front and in turn it allows the other Georgia OL to shine just as much as he helps the QB shine. The way he plays with his head on a swivel and can pass off stunts like he's already a pro (and much better than we've seen for the Commanders this season). Against an even front he does a nice job comboing to a backer and is a true brick wall.

 

Jackson Powers-Johnson, Oregon - Really good base. One thing that stands out is his flexibility. It's not something you usually notice about an OL... but there are defenders that overpower his upper body and he somehow contorts his back, which looks like a backwards "C", and holds them off at the point of attack. It's actually unbelievable to watch. He clamps onto his assignment and doesn't let them breathe. And his second level prowess is absolutely tremendous. I watched one play where he overran the defender at the second level and instead of panicking and reaching out and holding him he just turned his back and set a basketball screen. Incredibly heady decision.

 

Beaux Limmer, Arkansas - I don't know what's in the water at Arkansas, but they know how to produce centers. Watching the Alabama game he made some of the blocks look absolutely effortless. He's another guy with an incredibly fast snap to block time. He can snap and get to an upfield rushing three-tech and wall them off. He plays with great balance and passes off blocks really well. He plays with a flow. If I had to pick an area that I'd like to see improvement its in his second level blocking. He gets there but he loses his balance sometimes when getting out there. But this dude is a hell of a prospect. 

 

Drake Nugent, Michigan - Once again, Corum pops. But in regards to Nugent, you don't want to lose your balance as a DT against him. He will pancake you and let you know by falling on top of you to prove a point. He loves his club through technique on quick pass, but doesn't always execute it well because he's not physically dominant. Works really well in combo blocks and uses his body in a meaningful way. 

 

Zach Frazier, West Virginia - He's a "move" center. They use him on pulls. He isn't as strong as any of the others I've talked about so far in reference to being a people mover and dominating with power. But what he does is use leverage and coils well. He has extremely fast feet and can do anything you want him to do. He is a perfect fit for a zone scheme. In fact, I think this guy would be a heck of a fit for the Commanders. I'd like to see him add 10ish pounds to get to around 315 as a playing weight, but he fits what this team needs (at least until we have a new offensive scheme, then your mileage may vary)

 

Bryce Foster, Texas A&M - He's another "move" center. They like to pull him. He is okay on pulls, sometimes he lowers his head and misses contact. His feet are usually in adequate position but he throws his punch real violently which leads to balance issues. He's big at 330 lbs but he doesn't look like a 330 pound player. He just doesn't have the power you'd like from a man that large. Though he is agile. 

 

Andrew Raym, Oklahoma - Very stout and competitive player. He looks like he puts 100% effort into everything that he does. He gets pushed back a bit in pass pro and lunges a bit too often. Not sure what his NFL potential is. I will keep watching to see if I feel better about his prospect. But I love his motor and energy and I do think there is a place for that in the NFL. 

 

Matt Lee, Miami - Little bias creeps in here as I am a Canes fan. I love how energetic he is. Not only does he play with effort, but his energy just flows. He is a move center. They like to get him moving on screens and runs. He runs his feet and keeps them running. Great at combo blocking. But now I have to let my bias go. I don't know that he has NFL strength and he plays too high, which makes him fall off of blocks at times. More than once I've seen him literally fall into his own OL and blow up a play. I like him. Love his energy. Not sure he is going to get drafted.

 

Dylan McMahon, NC State - He is incredibly strong. He's on Feldman's "Freaks" list with a power clean of 400+ and a 32" vert... for a 300+ pound human. He moves well. But he loves playing with his hands and not his feet. That usually doesn't translate well to the next level. He's a guy that can get onto a NFL roster as a UDFA, gain some more size and refine technique and can stick to a NFL roster for a long time.

 

Justin Dedich, USC - Strong anchor, powerful, does well against bigger targets. He plays tall and when linebackers or quicker defenders get into him he struggles to stick with his blocks. Doesn't have the second level range of a lot of these guys. 

 

 

 

Center Rankings:

 

1. Sedrick Van Pran, Georgia

2. Jackson Powers-Johnson, Oregon

3. Beaux Limmer, Arkansas

4. Zach Frazier, West Virginia

5. Drake Nugent, Michigan

6. Bryce Foster, Texas A&M

7. Dylan McMahon, NC State

8. Andrew Raym, Oklahoma

9. Matt Lee, Miami

10. Justin Dedich, USC

 

I think after Foster we get into a world where some of these guys just aren't going to get drafted. So the center batch is solid, but thin.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for doing these. Glad you found the time. There are some really nice IOL prospects in this draft. Day two should b interesting. 

 

Hope you get to offball backer next. You nailed Pace last year, be interesting to see what you can find this year.

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Thanks for doing these. Glad you found the time. There are some really nice IOL prospects in this draft. Day two should b interesting. 

 

Hope you get to offball backer next. You nailed Pace last year, be interesting to see what you can find this year.

Was going to do the offense first. But you may be on to something. Not sure if I’m going to be able to do a deep dive at each position this year so getting to LB/TE/RB/Safety is probably more important.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

He is quick and tough! I had to look up his height, they are saying 6' 3". If that's right, he should be a dude as long as he has arm length. I like him.

 

Shorter C could benefit Howell.

 

If drafting him or Van Pran who I also like, are we passing on Strom, saying he can be a backup, will need to make it as a G?

 

Stromberg would not stop me from drafting anybody any more than Braeden Daniels would.  I wouldn't have picked him in the first place, so that's not a tough call for me.  If he can find a home at guard, then great.  If not, oh well.

 

A truly excellent center, which I think Van Pran and Johnson could each be, would stabilize our entire offensive line.  There aren't any bad OLs who have great centers in the NFL, they anchor you to competence.  And losing them tanks your entire offense.  The great ones also almost never hit free agency.  It's actually the most transformative upgrade we could make to our OL IMO, much more so than tackle.  So I'd pull the trigger on those two and consider trading down from the top ten for Van Pran or up from the second for Powers Johnson.

 

Give me Malik Nabers or Brock Bowers + Van Pran or Powers Johnson and the low ceiling on this offense would instantly disappear.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

I'm not giving up on Strom, I like him a lot, but he didn't beat out Gates or Larson and is injured.

 

 

I'll watch Van Prat.  If he's an elite type I am open of course to upgrading.   Strom struck me as solid-good, especially in the run game.  According to most he had a good camp, too.

 

I dismiss though the he didn't beat Gates or Larsen point though.  Keim among others said from the jump Rivera was not going to play a rookie center with Howell, no matter what.  It was just one of a series of odd Ron moves this off season.

 

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Give me Malik Nabers or Brock Bowers + Van Pran or Powers Johnson and the low ceiling on this offense would instantly disappear.

 

After watching some of the TEs, I'll plant a flag that this is an average TE class.  It's not like last year.  There are no late first or 2nd round guys that intrigue me ala Kincaid, Laporta and to a lesser extent Musgrave.

 

It makes Bowers even more appealing to me.  

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise