2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I could see Powers Johnson with our natural 3rd, Van Pran with our Bears 2nd. I'd be really really happy with either of them

 

Van Pran has Steelers first round pick all over him.  They're going to be his floor IMO, and they'll probably win 10 games and pick around 20.  I think he's fair value in the teens, and I think he's a much better player than some of the hyped up tackles like Joe Alt.

 

Still getting a feel for Powers Johnson's stock, but my guy says second round for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If I was ranking the OL as a whole and had to do a top 10...

 

1. Cooper Beebe, G, Kansas State

2. Olu Fashanu, T, Penn State

3. Sedrick Van Pran, C, Georgia

4. Amarius Mims, T, Georgia

5. Taliese Fuaga, T, Oregon State

6. Joe Alt, T, Notre Dame

7. Zak Zinter, G, Michigan

8. JC Latham, T, Alabama

9. Jackson Powers-Johnson, C, Oregon

10. Jordan Morgan, T, Arizona / Patrick Paul, T, Houston

 

I think Beebe is the class of the '24 class as of this moment. But he will not be the first, second or even third OL taken due to being a guard. 

 

I watched Beebe last year and talked about him a little then -- he was for a spell talked about coming out in last years class.

 

I recall liking him I got to watch this seasons games from him.

 

I like Fashanu a lot and to a lesser extent Alt too and if that's where they go I am good with it.  But I'd be more than cool trading down getting Fauga and then adding Beebe or another interior player.    Like last year though i need to watch more and my takes might shift some.

 

It feels like a stacked draft for O line and that's great considering the needs.

 

It's early but off the top of my head lets say we pick 5, my first choice would be to trade down but only if they got a big haul.    After that I am torn between Bowers and Fashanu.  I go back and forth on it.  At this moment after watching 3 other TEs this morning, my leaning is Bowers.  But I likely will keep vacillating.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

I'd be fine with OL with two of our first three picks(assuming no trades). I'd love to get both Ts while addressing LG in FA.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

Van Pran has Steelers first round pick all over him.  They're going to be his floor IMO, and they'll probably win 10 games and pick around 20.  I think he's fair value in the teens, and I think he's a much better player than some of the hyped up tackles like Joe Alt.

 

Still getting a feel for Powers Johnson's stock, but my guy says second round for him.

Could be right about that. That's about where Lindstrom went. Dickenson went early 2nd the year before. Last year was a good year for center and they didn't start going until the second and then flew off the board leaving Strom and Olu Olu for the back of the draft.

 

I think Van Pran comes in as an elite starter day one, so he probably does go in that late 1rst area, but Bowers and JPJ would be a huge lift for our offense.

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd be fine with OL with two of our first three picks(assuming no trades). I'd love to get both Ts while addressing LG in FA.

I think LG can be good with Strom or Paul, if we stabilize LT and OC. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I notice Kiper's top rated center is Barton who plays LT now.

 

 

Process over results: Graham Barton’s journey to becoming one of the best offensive linemen in college football

 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-process-over-results-graham-bartons-journey-to-becoming-one-of-the-best-offensive-linemen

 

While that quote is cheesy, it’s a mantra that Duke offensive tackle Graham Barton lives by. Coming out of Ravenwood high school, he was listed as a three-star recruit and outside the top 700 players in the class of 2020, according to On3’s industry rating. Yet, he never blinked.

“That stuff never really bothered me,” Barton said in an exclusive interview with PFF. “Three, four, five stars. I didn’t really care to be honest with you. I was more worried about my career as an individual. I didn’t care what recruiting services said about me. I just wanted to go to the team that I wanted to go to. I think I did just that.”

 

It didn’t take long for the Brentwood, Ten., native to find his new home.

“I committed to Duke pretty early on,” Barton said. “I came on a visit here, met the coaches and commits in my class and just fell in love. I love being here, I love being a part of this university, this football program. I came here on a weekend visit and committed on [the following] Monday. That was all it took.”

 

It also didn’t take long for Barton to see the field, starting at center for the Blue Devils as a true freshman. He played the following two years at left tackle and remains in that position heading into this season. While the position change was difficult at first, the rising senior was willing to do whatever it took to win.

“It’s important as an offensive lineman to play wherever your team needs you,” he said. “Whatever helps us win, I’ll absolutely do. When people ask me, I just say I play offensive line.”

 

Barton’s first two years in Durham, North Carolina didn’t produce many victories though, as Duke went a combined 5-18 in that span with just a 1-17 record in the ACC. That all changed when Mike Elko was hired as the new head coach, as the Blue Devils finished with a 9-4 record this past season and a 5-3 mark in the conference. Barton understands that their turnaround doesn’t just happen overnight.

 

“We have a phenomenal coaching staff and locker room now,” he said. “We built that through the winter, spring and summer. We built a gritty, underdog, chip-on-the-shoulder culture that carried us through the year. When things got hard during the season, everyone rose to the occasion. Being here for the darker days, winning three games a year, it was so awesome to see all that culminate in a nine-win season. The sky’s the limit for us in Year 2.”

Barton was Duke’s best player during its magical 2022 season. He was the only Power Five tackle who earned 85-plus grades both as a pass-blocker and run-blocker while his 17 big-time blocks (PFF’s highest-graded blocks) were five more than any tackle in the country.

 

Barton’s play as a junior likely would've gotten him selected within the first couple rounds of the 2023 NFL Draft if he declared. However, he wasn’t ready to leave just yet.

“It was a no-brainer,” the senior said. “I wanted to come back for the people. I wanted to finish school, find more consistency in my game and improve on some things. There’s no better place to do that than Duke.”

Instead, he enters the 2023 season with the potential of hearing his name called very highly in the 2024 draft. He went 22nd overall in my way-too-early 2024 mock draft, but he couldn’t care less.

“No offense, but [it means] nothing,” Barton said with a laugh. “That’s great for my parents and friends. For me, I’m a process guy. That’s what all the greats say. It’s about your process. It’s about your day-to-day habits to try and become a better player. So, I try to not worry about the results and next April. That kind of building process and day-by-day, that’s kind of my mindset. Hopefully if I follow that well and find some success doing that, that’ll lead to some of the things you mentioned earlier.”

 

So, if he isn’t eyeing the 2024 NFL Draft or any individual accolades, does Barton have any personal goals for the 2023 campaign?

“Yeah, win. Win and keep [quarterback] Riley Leonard nice, clean and safe. Help us run for thousands of yards. Those are my personal goals.”

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched Beebe last year and talked about him a little then -- he was for a spell talked about coming out in last years class.

 

I recall liking him I got to watch this seasons games from him.

 

I like Fashanu a lot and to a lesser extent Alt too and if that's where they go I am good with it.  But I'd be more than cool trading down getting Fauga and then adding Beebe or another interior player.    Like last year though i need to watch more and my takes might shift some.

 

It feels like a stacked draft for O line and that's great considering the needs.

 

It's early but off the top of my head lets say we pick 5, my first choice would be to trade down but only if they got a big haul.    After that I am torn between Bowers and Fashanu.  I go back and forth on it.  At this moment after watching 3 other TEs this morning, my leaning is Bowers.  But I likely will keep vacillating.

I'm curious about Cade Stovers combine. If he has the speed numbers I think he'd make a great TE1.

 

As to the Strom point. Eagles have been targeting OC early in the draft for a couple years, but Kelce won't retire and nobody is beating him out. I really like that strategy. It's like addding more cerebral IOL.

 

I'm still open to the idea of moving Cosmi back out to RT, depending on how we address OL. 

 

I bet pitching a job to a top OL coach that you're getting 3 OL in the first two days of the draft and FA flexibility could land you  Dante Scarnecchia if Billicheck is out in NE.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm curious about Cade Stovers combine. If he has the speed numbers I think he'd make a great TE1.

 

As to the Strom point. Eagles have been targeting OC early in the draft for a couple years, but Kelce won't retire and nobody is beating him out. I really like that strategy. It's like addding more cerebral IOL.

 

I'm still open to the idea of moving Cosmi back out to RT, depending on how we address OL. 

 

I bet pitching a job to a top OL coach that you're getting 3 OL in the first two days of the draft and FA flexibility could land you  Dante Scarnecchia if Billicheck is out in NE.

 

I'd be suprised if Stovers burnt up the combine.  But i don't think he will have a bad one either.  I think he will test OK but will see.  Watching him, he feels very high floor.  And I rarely feel high floor about TE prospects because its such a boom-bust position.  Especially being 24 next season and being a natural zone beater I can see him hitting the ground running next year.

 

I just watched another abridged game.  It didn't change my opinion, i still like him, don't love him.  Egbuka is really growing on me when I watch Ohio State, always seem to be open and he is shifty.  Gets overshadowed by Harrison Jr as he should.  I believe he missed some games so he doesn't have the stats he had last year.  But I am intrigued to watch him some more.

 

As for O line, this draft at that spot feels like what TE was last year -- stacked.  I'd be cool with taking 3 O lineman with the first three picks, my desire is that high for that spot.

 

If they are picking 3, which I doubt they will, I am going Harrison.   Bowers and Fashanu are really temping if they stand pat at 5,6.  I think I would go Bowers over Alt.   Fashanu versus Bowers would be a tough one for me.  But with the depth at o line in particular if they can trade down where they don't go that far and pick up a 2nd, I think I'd do it.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

I get drafting BPA and I agree but sometimes you need to mix in need too.  

[KDawg]

I’m not going to go into detail, I don’t need to. Had a second while I was lifting and watched some Ohio State games just to watch Harrison. Dude is next world. I like some of the other receivers but Harrison literally does everything: wide catch radius, great routes, YAC, breaks tackles, runs by guys, spectacular catches, possession catches and most notably he blocks like a man. 
 

This guy is going to be something at the next level. I think we knew that but I’ve never seen a receiver who has literally every tool that you want. 
 

I think he is, without a shadow of a doubt, the best football player in this draft class.

[woodpecker]

Will never be able to thank you guys enough for doing all this research! I don’t think any of us will be unhappy with one of the stud LT’s in the first round. But definitely feels like a need pick. With Bowers, and of course Harrison if we were able, seems like we’d be getting the best of both worlds… BPA and fills a need. We can still fix the line with numbers—use multiple later picks and add a free agent or two.

[RWJ]

This for a quick 3 round mock draft:  Move Stromberg to OG. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not going to go into detail, I don’t need to. Had a second while I was lifting and watched some Ohio State games just to watch Harrison. Dude is next world. I like some of the other receivers but Harrison literally does everything: wide catch radius, great routes, YAC, breaks tackles, runs by guys, spectacular catches, possession catches and most notably he blocks like a man. 
 

This guy is going to be something at the next level. I think we knew that but I’ve never seen a receiver who has literally every tool that you want. 
 

I think he is, without a shadow of a doubt, the best football player in this draft class.

 

Agree.  No doubt.

 

If by some chance we end up with pick #3, its the no brainer pick IMO. 

[Koolblue13]

If I'm taking a guess today I'm going to say we're picking 6. I'm not overly sold on any of the OTs being solid top 5 locks. Harrison and Bowers are the two clear cut best of the class. I also have a feeling the QBs are going to rise up to the top and push some of these OTs down to the teens again. 

 

If we can slide back ATL, Rams, Raiders, Vikings are all teams that may want to leap ahead. I doubt I'd want to drop back into the 20's, but early teens? pick up another 3rd?

 

I am a firm believer that the foundation of a team is built in the middle of the draft, Day 2 is the Core. If you have a solid core, you can develop more late rounders and use the first to grab your Star players

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  No doubt.

 

If by some chance we end up with pick #3, its the no brainer pick IMO. 

Understood but you give our underperforming Oline a makeover and give Sam Howell time, I think his WRs produce much more and numbers go up.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

If I'm taking a guess today I'm going to say we're picking 6. I'm not overly sold on any of the OTs being solid top 5 locks. Harrison and Bowers are the two clear cut best of the class. I also have a feeling the QBs are going to rise up to the top and push some of these OTs down to the teens again. 

 

If we can slide back ATL, Rams, Raiders, Vikings are all teams that may want to leap ahead. I doubt I'd want to drop back into the 20's, but early teens? pick up another 3rd?

 

I am a firm believer that the foundation of a team is built in the middle of the draft, Day 2 is the Core. If you have a solid core, you can develop more late rounders and use the first to grab your Star players

 

QBs with potential tend to rise in mocks over time.  Heck I recall in January, Kyler Murray in come mocks were in the mid to late first round.

 

If Daniels and Penix keep burning it up, it wouldn't shock me if they end up top 5.  McCarthy has a shot too.  

 

I'd be surprised if Harrison is there at 4 but there is a fighting chance if some team falls for a QB.  I think at #6 there is a better than 50-50 chance Bowers is there.

 

Our analyitcs new guy is a big fan of the value of a TE judging by the conference I watched where he presented.   

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If there were only other TEs who played in this era. We just had the 1960s and then bam we arrived at 2021 with a sample size of Pitts and maybe 3 other TEs playing in this era. The TE is like the fullback spot, most teams apparently don’t even use a TE. 
 

Look after making my point, I don’t give a crap. You want to believe that there was nothing special about his rookie season.  That’s cool. I couldn’t disagree more. It I think is a boring argument on this thread. We both made our points why not move on?

 

I never said it was nothing special, I just said it was not historically special.  

 

Agreed, time to move on.  Happy Thanksgiving.  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Understood but you give our underperforming Oline a makeover and give Sam Howell time, I think his WRs produce much more and numbers go up.  

 

I'd have to be one of the top 3 biggest complainers on this board about the poor job Rivera has done on the O line and the need to fix that.  I haven't wavered from that one whit.  But we also have two high 2nd round picks and 90 million of cap room.

 

So while I am more than good with taking a tackle with the first pick.  But on the off chance they are picking third, I am not passing over an elite -- and dare I saw it, generational WR.  It has nothing to do with how I feel about Terry, who I love and Dotson.

 

Harrison is insane.   He is everything.  First level, 2nd level, third level threat.  Contested catches, seperates, insane hands.   

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd have to be one of the top 3 biggest complainers on this board about the poor job Rivera has done on the O line and the need to fix that.  I haven't wavered from that one whit.  But we also have two high 2nd round picks and 90 million of cap room.

 

So while I more than good with taking a tackle with the first pick.  I am not passing over an elite -- and dare I saw it, generational WR.  It has nothing to do with how I feel about Terry, who I love and Dotson.

 

Harrison is insane.   He is everything.  First level, 2nd level, third level threat.  Contested catches, seperates, insane hands.   

Respecting your opinion and dude is one of a kind but I stick with an OLine that has been in need of help for years and a CB and LB to go with it.  😀

[Skinsinparadise]

Funky, i guess this is predicaed on Ron running this, going D line

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

I honestly don't care about anything other than fixing our OL. I'm excited about FA, the draft and who will be coaching the position group.

 

I want a stud TE and MLB really badly as well, but if we can make the OL a strength, instead of a weakness in this one offseason, it's an absolute game changer.

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

Funky, i guess this is predicaed on Ron running this, going D line

 

I don't think it happens.  Depending on Harris and Co. mood and the score of the game this could be RR's last one as HC of Washington.  

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Respecting your opinion and dude is one of a kind but I stick with an OLine that has been in need of help for years and a CB and LB to go with it.  😀

 

Your point seems to be you draft to need period.    I do agree about O line #1.  I wouldn't put CB #2 but it doesn't matter because its not how I think anyway about the draft.  Go BPA.  I am willing to go for need at the O line to an extent because of Ron's neglect.  So I got some need in my approach but my whole approach isn't oriented towards need -- I want superstars.  This team has lacked superstars forever, game changer players. 

 

We have good to very good players but we don't do All Pro.   We don't have players that the whole league talks about -- we don't do Parsons, Justin Jefferson, Donald or name that superstar.  And I think that's part of the reason why this team is stuck from mediocrity to worse.  Drafting to need is more likely to keep you on that vicious cycle.  Cooley has talked about this some over the years when discussing this roster.

 

I don't mean this with sarcasm but if you want a FO that works the draft with their need based shopping list each round -- you will miss Ron because that's how he and this FO rolls.  Listening to Keim, Rivera was a pathologically need based drafter, round after round.    

 

I gather why you embrace that approach you disagreed with some of his actual thoughts about what the needs are.  But otherwise his thinking seems to mirror what you are doing which is this position is what we should target in this round and that position in the next round, etc.

 

I doubt the next GM will approach the draft like that because from what I observed most top GMs are more BPA based.

 

Having said that i wouldn't worry, I doubt we have a chance to draft Marvin Harrison.  So I wouldn't sweat it.

 

Also, I seriously doubt the next FO will neglect O line.  We got 5 picks in the top 100 and 90 million in cap space.  While i am perfectly good with taking a tackle especially if its Fashanu with a top pick -- Harrison and to a lesser extent Bowers are on the table for me at that pick.  

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

I like Verse over Fashanu.  That dude is a beast.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I like Verse over Fashanu.  That dude is a beast.

 

I haven't watched him.  but there is something painful for me with going with a defender in that case with the first round pick in 6 out of the last 8 years in an offense oriented league.

 

It would be one thing if our defense is poised to be great.  But we are ranked dead last in points right now on defense.  It's depressing. 

 

30 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I honestly don't care about anything other than fixing our OL. I'm excited about FA, the draft and who will be coaching the position group.

 

I want a stud TE and MLB really badly as well, but if we can make the OL a strength, instead of a weakness in this one offseason, it's an absolute game changer.

 

I am mostly in the same place with only one exception -- Harrison.  I'd be so jazzed to have him in the fold.  Howell won't have any of those games of heck Terry and Dotson just didn't get open today or heck sorry Sam the Giants shut down the 2nd-3rd level passes today. Harrison would open up the field for everyone.   

 

Bowers, maybe, too would get me off O line.  On that one i am back and forth.  But I am not back and forth on Harrison.  I don't think it will happen though.   I think he's going before our pick.  But there is a shot they could get Bowers.  Should be a fascinating off season.

 

Outside of that, I want O line, O line, O line.  

Edited November 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I haven't watched him.  but there is something painful for me with going with a defender in that case with the first round pick in 6 out of the last 8 years in an offense oriented league.

 

It would be one thing if our defense is poised to be great.  But we are ranked dead last in points right now on defense.  It's depressing. 

 

 

I am mostly in the same place with only one exception -- Harrison.  I'd be so jazzed to have him in the fold.  Howell won't have any of those games of heck Terry and Dotson just didn't get open today.  Harrison would open up the field for everyone.    Bowers, maybe, too.

 

Outside of that, I want O line, O line, O line.  

I think a lot of our WRs not getting open is scheme and coaching, but my ****ing about how awful our incompetent OC is should be in another thread.

 

I get that Harrison is great and would make us better, but he won't be in our range.