MSNBC: California court deals major blow to Uber drivers, delivery workers

[China]

California court deals major blow to Uber drivers, delivery workers

 

An appeals court ruling in California just dealt a significant blow to labor advocates who’ve sought more rights and protections for so-called gig workers.

 

Surely, you’ve relied on these workers' services at some point: Uber and Lyft drivers, DoorDash delivery people, some website coders and programmers. Maybe you've worked in the gig economy yourself. After all, nearly 16% of Americans have earned money through an online gig platform, according to a 2021 Pew Research Center survey.

 

Well, these workers’ corporate overlords just got a bit more powerful. 

 

Back in 2020, and to the delight of tech giants like Uber and Lyft, a majority of California voters backed a ballot measure, known as Proposition 22, that allows companies to classify these app-based workers as “independent contractors” rather than employees. While these companies often take a hefty cut of the profits workers make from each transaction, they’re often not responsible for things like health care benefits, maternity leave and even some costs needed for workers to complete their jobs — like car repairs, for example. 

 

In 2021, a California judge ruled the law was unconstitutional and tossed it out entirely. But California’s 1st District Court of Appeal overturned that ruling on Monday, finding the bulk of the law constitutional except for portions related to the California Legislature's authority on the matter.

 

The Service Employees International Union is expected to appeal the decision to the California Supreme Court, allowing some of these workers to hold out hope in the Prop. 22 battle.

 

Still, gig industry groups didn't waste time celebrating. A coalition that includes several deep-pocketed ride-share and delivery apps known as Protect App-Based Drivers and Services applauded “a historic victory for the nearly 1.4 million drivers who rely on the independence and flexibility of app-based work to earn income.” 

 

But that “flexibility” — often, the mere ability for workers to create their own schedules — tends to be viewed by Big Tech companies as an adequate replacement for benefits and worker protections. Many gig workers would argue it's not.

 

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[Darrell Green Fan]

I have been a rideshare drivers since I retired 4 years ago. One of the biggest benefits is the ability to write off your business miles, I have very little "profit" which translates to taxable income after taking this deduction.  

 

If we were converted to employees we lose this deduction, which is obviously huge.  This was a win for rideshare drivers IMO. But on the other end of the spectrum we have no protection. I was kicked off Lyft because someone made a very damaging false claim.  I know this was a risk so I installed a dashcam. But the one time I needed it the microphone failed and I had no audio to prove my innocence.  This law would at least make me eligible for unemployment.  

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I have been a rideshare drivers since I retired 4 years ago. One of the biggest benefits is the ability to write off your business miles, I have very little "profit" which translates to taxable income after taking this deduction.  

 

If we were converted to employees we lose this deduction, which is obviously huge.  This was a win for rideshare drivers IMO. But on the other end of the spectrum we have no protection. I was kicked off Lyft because someone made a very damaging false claim.  I know this was a risk so I installed a dashcam. But the one time I needed it the microphone failed and I had no audio to prove my innocence.  This law would at least make me eligible for unemployment.  

 

But isn't business mile deductible because that's actually putting wear and tear on your car?  It could be looked at another way where your revenue is getting eaten up by the wear you're putting on your car and you're essentially getting paid in advance for repairs and replacement that will eventually come due, leaving you very little to show for your time and work.

 

At the end of the day, it may make more sense to tie employee benefits with actual work hours rather than employee/indep contractor classification.

[PleaseBlitz]

I wonder how hard it would be to (1) allow the workers to choose their preferred classification and (2) prevent the companies from discriminating based on a particular driver’s selection.

[The Evil Genius]

I voted for the drivers in that prop a few years ago. It wasn't hard to see what the right outcome shoukd have been when Uber/Lyft were the primary sponsors of voting no on it. 

 

California prop voters though are largely stupid. They vote based on who spends the most on a prop and commercials usually. 

[Fergasun]

55 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

I voted for the drivers in that prop a few years ago. It wasn't hard to see what the right outcome shoukd have been when Uber/Lyft were the primary sponsors of voting no on it. 

 

California prop voters though are largely stupid. They vote based on who spends the most on a prop and commercials usually. 

Uber/Lyft were the primary sponsors of voting Yes on it.  Maybe you did vote "No"... but voting "No" was voting for the drivers. 

 

They had a bunch of ads for "Yes" featuring drivers.

[The Evil Genius]

6 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Uber/Lyft were the primary sponsors of voting Yes on it.  Maybe you did vote "No"... but voting "No" was voting for the drivers. 

 

They had a bunch of ads for "Yes" featuring drivers.

 

Thanks. It's been a few since I thought about it. I was against Uber/Lyft since they were not protecting the drivers..just their bottom line. 

[Fergasun]

34 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Thanks. It's been a few since I thought about it. I was against Uber/Lyft since they were not protecting the drivers..just their bottom line. 

We will probably end up with the same issue with the fastfood minimum wage bill that was passed (and is now blocked).  Subway, McDonalds will have workers on who say, "Vote for Prop 72 to save my job...."  

 

My son was so excited to think he was getting $22 minimum wage... 

[Darrell Green Fan]

10 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

But isn't business mile deductible because that's actually putting wear and tear on your car?  It could be looked at another way where your revenue is getting eaten up by the wear you're putting on your car and you're essentially getting paid in advance for repairs and replacement that will eventually come due, leaving you very little to show for your time and work.

 

At the end of the day, it may make more sense to tie employee benefits with actual work hours rather than employee/indep contractor classification.

Of course the business mile deduction is to compensate you for your car expenses, including depreciation.  But if you drive the right car, in my case a 6 year old Civic, my cost is not close to how much I can deduct. And again if we are not independent contractors we are not allowed to deduct those miles.  Now Uber should be compensating us, just as my company did when I was in sales. But good luck with that.

 

I'm telling you guys this has been much discussed among drivers.  Most who thought it through don't want to be employees. They are concerned among other things about having to adhere to a schedule.  One of the best parts is literally working or taking off with the tap of a button. Priceless.  

Edited March 16, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[EmirOfShmo]

13 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Of course the business mile deduction is to compensate you for your car expenses, including depreciation.  But if you drive the right car, in my case a 6 year old Civic, my cost is not close to how much I can deduct. And again if we are not independent contractors we are not allowed to deduct those miles.  Now Uber should be compensating us, just as my company did when I was in sales. But good luck with that.

 

I'm telling you guys this has been much discussed among drivers.  Most who thought it through don't want to be employees. They are concerned among other things about having to adhere to a schedule.  One of the best parts is literally working or taking off with the tap of a button. Priceless.  

Yep. I do catering delivery for a couple of restaurants. One pays when I clock in at store arrival & clock out when I return from the delivery. Also get paid cash $0.655/ mile. No tips & the mileage pay is often less than the actual delivery fee on the the order. The other places pay me as a 1099 contractor which allows me many deductions. I get the delivery fee + tip.  

In my opinion - this goes back to a Microsoft contractor lawsuit years ago. Contractors who worked for MS for many years (and only with MS) sued they were getting screwed as they weren't getting any benefits as a 1099 contractor. MS lost the suit. Sounds to me like Uber/Lyft drivers want to be treated as employees to get the benefits. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by EmirOfShmo

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 hours ago, EmirOfShmo said:

Yep. I do catering delivery for a couple of restaurants. One pays I when clock in at store arrival & clock out when I return from the delivery. Also get paid cash $0.655/ mile. No tips & the mileage pay is often less than the actual delivery fee on the the order. The other places pay me as a 1099 contractor which allows me many deductions. I get the delivery fee + tip.  

In my opinion - this goes back to a Microsoft contractor lawsuit years ago. Contractors who worked for MS for many years (and only with MS) sued they were getting screwed as they weren't getting any benefits as a 1099 contractor. MS lost the suit. Sounds to me like Uber/Lyft drivers want to be treated as employees to get the benefits. 

Uber and Lyft are still not profitable, if they are forced to pay benefits or worse reimburse drivers for the miles they drive it will destroy those companies.