mistertim Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: this is what I am saying. If you dont believe there are less than five percent Twitter bots, you cannot possibly believe that Twitter gave Musk evidence that there are less than five percent Twitter bots. Twitter said less than 5% and they provided some sort of methodology for how they came up with that number and evidence for it. They provided it to the SEC and recently provided Musk with a huge amount of data on bots. Elon Musk said 20%, provided no actual data to support it or how he came to it, and then posted a bunch of memes on Twitter. Twitter said they gave Musk evidence and an unprecedented amount of data. Musk has not once actually materially refuted that or provided any evidence that what they gave him was in error. He just went back to trolling online. And you're telling me to believe the professional troll over the company that actually provided data? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, CobraCommander said: That's ok. It still doesn't change the fact that Elon has beef with the SEC as it pertains to his businesses, whether it's Tesla or Twitter quite frankly, is irrelevant. He has shown a pattern of mistrust and disrespect when it comes to his dealings with the SEC. I don't know about you but I wouldn't call someone a **** and then turn around and expect them to bail me out. Do you believe it is acceptable for the SEC to hold grudges? It seems like you are suggesting they do it. I think they should hold Elon accountable for what he did (they are not, he is supposed to be having a team review all business related tweets prior to him tweeting them, that clearly isn’t happening) and I think that Twitter should be held accountable if they are misrepresenting the amount of bots on their platform. 4 minutes ago, mistertim said: Twitter said less than 5% and they provided some sort of methodology for how they came up with that number and evidence for it. They provided it to the SEC and recently provided Musk with a huge amount of data on bots. How do you know that? You realize the SEC does not verify company reports, correct? It seems like you are just blindly trusting a corporation the same way you accuse me of blindly trusting Elon. Edited July 11, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Do you believe it is acceptable for the SEC to hold grudges? It seems like you are suggesting the so it. I think they should hold Elon accountable for what he did (they are not, he is supposed to be having a team review all business related tweets prior to him tweeting them, that clearly isn’t happening) and I think that Twitter should be held accountable if they are misrepresenting the amount of bots on their platform. No I don't think it's acceptable for the SEC to hold grudges. And yet I wouldn't play that game. Does that make sense? The only way it makes sense to play that game is if you(Elon) expect the SEC to find in the favor of Twitter so that you can go back on twitter and pretend you are the victim, because they are out to get you for the words you once used against them. Again he is constantly using twitter to get these messages across. The Irony of which, IS ****ING STAGGERING. Either one party is lying, or both are. I'm sure the SEC will sort it out in due time. Edited July 11, 2022 by CobraCommander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, CobraCommander said: No I don't think it's acceptable for the SEC to hold grudges. And yet I wouldn't play that game. Does that make sense? The only way it makes sense to play that game is if you(Elon) expect the SEC to find in the favor of Twitter so that you can go back on twitter and pretend you are the victim, because they are out to get you for the words you once used against them. Again he is constantly using twitter to get these messages across. The Irony of which, IS ****ING STAGGERING. Either one party is lying, or both are. I'm sure the SEC will sort it out in due time. Your scenerio is certainly plausible, but also maybe Musk thinks that the SEC is picking on him and wants them to investigate Twitter for their “little fib” the same way they went after him for his “little fib” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: How do you know that? You realize the SEC does not verify company reports, correct? It seems like you are just blindly trusting a corporation the same way you accuse me of blindly trusting Elon. I'm not sure you quite understand the idea of blindly trusting. Twitter provided data to the SEC as well as an even more unprecedented amount of data directly to Musk, along with methodology for how they came up with those numbers. Elon Musk gave some random number on social media that he basically pulled out of his ass and hasn't provided any actual data to support it or explained how he arrived at it. He also hasn't done anything to materially refute the massive amount of data that Twitter has sent him to show the level of bot activity. Do I implicitly trust everything Twitter says? Of course not. But as I said I'm going to lean more towards believing them than believing the guy who comes up with random claims and then uses memes on Twitter to try and push them instead of actual data. Blindly trusting is when you believe the person who makes huge claims without providing even a shred of actual evidence. That's what you're doing with Musk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mistertim said: I'm not sure you quite understand the idea of blindly trusting. Twitter provided data to the SEC as well as an even more unprecedented amount of data directly to Musk, along with methodology for how they came up with those numbers. you keep saying this without providing any evidence they actually did this. I don’t believe Twitter has less than 5 percent bots therefore I don’t believe twitters claims that they Musk the evidence they claim they gave him. It has nothing to do with my support of musk. Edited July 11, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Just now, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Your scenerio is certainly plausible, but also maybe Musk thinks that the SEC is picking on him and wants them to investigate Twitter for their “little fib” the same way they went after him for his “little fib” The SEC should pick on him quite frankly. Elon isn't dumb, but he is a ****. You think the IRS just does one audit after you've been found cheating on your taxes? I had a friend from San Diego who was audited every single year on her taxes and it wasn't even her fault. Her shady-ass business mogul father used her identity when she was a young woman to hide a bunch of assets he didn't want reported under his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 minute ago, CobraCommander said: The SEC should pick on him quite frankly. Elon isn't dumb, but he is a ****. You think the IRS just does one audit after you've been found cheating on your taxes? I had a friend from San Diego who was audited every single year on her taxes and it wasn't even her fault. Her shady-ass business mogul father used her identity when she was a young woman to hide a bunch of assets he didn't want reported under his name. The IRS and the SEC don’t have the same investigative capabilities sadly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: you keep saying this without providing any evidence they actually did this. We have evidence that Twitter provided that to the SEC. They have said that they provided it all to Musk, along with an even bigger "firehose" of data in June, as he requested. Musk has not once materially refuted that they gave that to him. He went back to posting memes instead. So that leads me to believe that they did actually provide that data to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Just now, mistertim said: We have evidence that Twitter provided that to the SEC. which is what? Where? When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: which is what? Where? When? Uh, you literally posted the link earlier: Quote SEC filings are public information. https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001418091/bfcefac6-7b00-4d5f-9e6a-fc72218de9df.pdf this is the report where they say less that 5 percent user were bots. And again I ask the same question you seem to keep dodging. If Twitter didn't provide the huge amount of data about bots to Musk in June, as they claimed, why hasn't he materially refuted that they gave it to him? Why is he back to posting memes on Twitter instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, mistertim said: Uh, you literally posted the link earlier: That isn’t proof of anything other than Twitter made a claim it needs to back up. And there isn’t any data. It’s just Twitter saying something. Possibly like Enron and Worldcom before them. 14 minutes ago, mistertim said: If Twitter didn't provide the huge amount of data about bots to Musk in June, as they claimed, why hasn't he materially refuted that they gave it to him? I think he has said that in saying Twitter will have to take him to court to enforce the agreement. Musk doesn’t have to take them to court to cancel the agreement, he just needs to say he isn’t doing the deal and if they want to enforce it, he’ll see them in court. I’m not sure what you expect him to do to “materially refute” their claim that they have him proof. He obviously refutes their evidence and that is why he says he isn’t buying Twitter. Edited July 11, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: That isn’t proof of anything other than Twitter made a claim it needs to back up. And there isn’t any data. It’s just Twitter saying something. Possibly like Enron and Worldcom before them. I think he has said that in saying Twitter will have to take him to court to enforce the agreement. Musk doesn’t have to take them to court to cancel the agreement, he just needs to say he isn’t doing the deal and if they want to enforce it, he’ll see them in court. I’m not sure what you expect him to do to “materially refute” their claim that they have him proof. He obviously refutes their evidence and that is why he says he isn’t buying Twitter. Ok so you think Twitter just flat out lied to the SEC. *shrug* And again, Musk has not once denied that Twitter gave him the "firehose" of information on bots that he asked for. He claimed they were lying, said he wanted all the data, they said they gave it to him, he hasn't refuted that. Do you think Twitter flat out lied as well about giving him the data and Musk just didn't feel like calling them on it? Yeah, that sounds exactly like something a level headed person like Elon Musk would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 It’s clear we are arguing in circles. I’ll be back when the law suit in Delaware gets settled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 minute ago, mistertim said: Ok so you think Twitter just flat out lied to the SEC. *shrug* no, I’m saying it’s possible and we don’t have evidence either way. The SEC does not investigate claims companies make on a regular basis. 1 minute ago, mistertim said: And again, Musk has not once denied that Twitter gave him the "firehose" of information on bots that he asked for. He claimed they were lying, said he wanted all the data, they said they gave it to him, he hasn't refuted that. he says he hasn’t gotten the evidence. I’m not sure how that isn’t “refuting”… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: no, I’m saying it’s possible and we don’t have evidence either way. The SEC does not investigate claims companies make on a regular basis. he says he hasn’t gotten the evidence. I’m not sure how that isn’t “refuting”… Did he actually provide any proof that they lied and sent him nothing? That would be a pretty stupid lie for Twitter because it would likely turn things in Musk's favor. I seriously doubt they'd just fabricate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mistertim said: Did he actually provide any proof that they lied and sent him nothing? That would be a pretty stupid lie for Twitter because it would likely turn things in Musk's favor. I seriously doubt they'd just fabricate it. Why would he provide that evidence outside of a court room? Moreover I never said we know for sure musk is telling the truth. What I said was we don’t know for sure Twitter is. Edited July 11, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Musk got the firehose already. Now if you want to say that the access to the firehose doesn't do much, especially given the short time frame till the acquisition, that's a different issue. He'll probably get a little more time due to the litigation though. https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-has-twitters-data-but-getting-answers-on-spam-accounts-may-be-tougher-11656408601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, mistertim said: . I seriously doubt they'd just fabricate it. So you think Twitter has less than 5 percent bots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Why would he provide that evidence outside of a court room? For the same reason he seems to think it's best to do all sorts of stupid stuff outside of a courtroom and instead do it via trolling on social media? At this point then I guess it just depends on whether you believe Twitter flat out baldly lied about providing Musk with that huge amount of data. I have a hard time believing they did, seeing how much that would mean in court once it was proven that they lied and sent Musk nothing. 5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: So you think Twitter has less than 5 percent bots? I don't know. They say they do, they apparently have data saying they do, but I'm not necessarily going to take their word as gospel. However, again, on the other side you have a guy who pulled a number out of his ass without backing it up and has spent most of this process trolling on social media. If Musk can prove Twitter's data and methodology is incorrect, then maybe he should let everyone know what his methodology for that was and where he got the data instead of posting memes on Twitter. Edited July 11, 2022 by mistertim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Just now, CousinsCowgirl84 said: So you think Twitter has less than 5 percent bots? For clarification, the issue is spam bots, not all bots. Twitter actually encourages useful bots. (Which also murks up the water regarding the percentage figure. Are the two parties in agreement over the definition of spam bots?) On the credibility issue, sure either side could be wrong/lying (or both?). But one is a statement made in a public and legally mandated filing where those responsible, including third parties, would have legal liabilities stemming from false statements and the other is a tweet. While the possibility exists that both parties are lying, it's not unreasonable to place more faith in Twitter's SEC filing than Musk's tweet. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: So you think Twitter has less than 5 percent bots? What makes you think otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: What makes you think otherwise? It’s been widely reported that Twitter has a bot problem. You can ask @TradeTheBeal!for the specifics. But my point with that question was that you cannot think at the same time: 1) Twitter has provided Elon proof that bots have made up <5 percent of failed users. and 2) Twitter has bot accounts more than 5 percent of daily users. the two thoughts are incompatible. Edited July 11, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: It’s been widely reported that Twitter has a bot problem. You can ask @TradeTheBeal!for the specifics. But my point with that question was that you cannot think at the same time: 1) Twitter has provided Elon proof that bots have made up <5 percent of failed users. and 2) Twitter has bot accounts more than 5 percent of daily users. the two thoughts are incompatible. What makes you think 10 million bot accounts isn't a problem? What makes you think problems with bots can only be measured in quantity and not in amount and types of damage caused? Edited July 11, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 It’s not a bot “problem”, it’s a bot “feature”. And Musk was well aware of it before he decided to put on his clown shoes for the Maga set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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