The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[FLSkinz83]

Ridder's throwing motion seems off to me.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I posted my favorite part of that article earlier yesterday.  The use his athleticism part. 

 

IMHO Trubisky is a bad passer, almost Darnold degree bad but not qute that level bad -- I can't put among his other things his accuracy issues on Nagy, just like I couldn't do the same for Darnold putting it on Gase. 

 

But the difference with Darnold IMO is Trubisky as a runner is borderline special.  Both in terms of escaping pressure and running in open field.  So I love the whole he's an athlete, let the dude run kind of theme to some of the comments. 

 

I don't see why he can't be as good as Daniel Jones, he strikes me as the same caliber.  I've seen others make the comparison too and it makes sense to me.  Jones IMO is more accurate than Trubisky.  Similar arm talent.  Trubisky a better runner albeit Jones isn't bad on the move.  I dont see why Trubisky can't be like a 20-25 QB in the league.  Below average play but not wretched.  Jimmy G to me is in the 17-19 category but you'd have to give something up to get him.  Mariota is my top FA -- IMO he's in the 18-21 or so range. 

 

I wouldn't hate though Trubisky.  I get Jay Gruden's point on a recent podcast that Heinicke could beat Trubisky in training camp.  I wouldn't rule out he's right.  But I'd put money that Trubisky would beat Heinicke in a close competition.  Trubisky IMO has a stronger arm and is a better runner than Heinicke. 

I saw something on Trubisky yesterday where he talked about how much he learned at Buffalo and the philosophies they had and taught him in QB play. He talked about playing more loosely and not being afraid of making mistakes. He also said he's in a really comfortable place moving forward and that going from Chicago to Buffalo was good for him. 

He sounded like a guy who either knows where he's going next or who knows he's gonna have multiple suitors for his services. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

39 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Guy commented on the tweet said same thing. Nagy responded that he doesn't look as fast as he is because Ridder is long strider but absolutely has another gear. Said he's testing low 4.5s laser and low 4.4s hand timed. Very well could be fluff though like you said.

 

Yup.

 

He's not a quick acceleration guy, but his top speed is high.  You can see it on film when he opens up his stride.  Even if he tests in the 4.4's, I wouldn't put his speed on the same tier as most athletes who do that.  Ridder needs some open field to get to his top speed, but it is breakaway speed.

 

If on occasion the defense forgets he can scramble, he's going to gobble up yards on the ground.  But ordinarily no, he shouldn't be thought of as a RG3/Jackson/Vick-esque dynamic running threat that a time in the 4.4's would suggest.  That's just not how he runs.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

He sounded like a guy who either knows where he's going next or who knows he's gonna have multiple suitors for his services. 

It's saying all the right things in an effort to make the bolded part come true.  Perhaps there is truth to what he's saying, but it certainly sounds like a sales pitch to potential teams.

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's saying all the right things in an effort to make the bolded part come true.  Perhaps there is truth to what he's saying, but it certainly sounds like a sales pitch to potential teams.

 

I think it's all a sales pitch. A NFL QB doesn't suddenly stop being a poor passer by sitting behind a good one. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Galdi podcast, he interviewed the guy who just did the PFF annual on QBs.  I get to check that out, it typically has a ton of details.

 

Here are his takes:

 

A.  He doesn't think Heinicke is an NFL starter, he's one of the least accurate QBs in the league and that is especially true for throws outside the flat/going past 10 yards.  He thinks he limits this team's offense and it would be much better served with a QB who can get the ball down the field.

 

B.  Likes Russell Wilson, his numbers were good pre injury. He believes the injury effected his play especially consideing he's a push the envelope kind of passer, deep balls, outside the numbers, etc.  He said one of the best deep throwers in the league.    He thinks its a good fit to this team.

 

C. Jimmy G.  Mixed report.  throws well in the flat, sets up playmakers for YAC.  Doesn't make too many big time throws.  Throws the ball in harms way.  Struggles with pressure.  He thinks the surrounding cast is critical with him.

 

D.  Trubisky.  He's not a fan.  He thinks he's at best a bottom tier starter.   Even in 2018, his peak year the numbers were deceiving, had a lot of luck that year and PFF didn't give him a good score after diving into his play.  He thinks it was clever for him to go to Buffalo and create a narrative that he's regrouping, he can see teams talking themsleves into it but believes these teams will be wrong.

 

E.  Winston.  He's actually OK with him.  High variance numbers -- good/bad but he gives his receivers a chance because he will take the ball down the field.

 

 

He thinks everything beng equal keep shooting for a franchise QB.  You can have a one off season without one but the success doesn't tend to last.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  He doesn't think Heinicke is an NFL starter, he's one of the least accurate QBs in the league and that is especially true for throws outside the flat/going past 10 yards.  He thinks he limits this team's offense and it would be much better served with a QB who can get the ball down the field.

Well, yeah, but...

 

He's judging Heineke on what equates to his 'rookie' season, with no weapons and the worst defense on earth, and he still won 7 games.  He's only going to get better from here and we've shown we can win with him.  Oh, and by the way - Heineke beat the goat, so yeah....

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it's all a sales pitch. A NFL QB doesn't suddenly stop being a poor passer by sitting behind a good one. 

 

Yeah agree.  IMHO from watching him, he's not the smartest QB and he's not accurate.  Those two factors IMO will limit him.

 

The Buffalo sales pitch for him is as top hevy as the mock draft community heavy sales pitch for Sam Darnold last off season.  

 

I get the sense reading some of the Buffalo articles that they are really grateful for how seriously Trubisky took his scouting QB roles in their practices.  And that's cool.  I am sure Trubisky did indeed look better than the run of the mill back up QB, especially scrubs that the Bills had in camp like Jake Fromm.

 

I do think he's a good runner and I'd utilize that more than the Bears did.  I don't think he's as an atrocious pure passer as Darnold is but he's in that flavor, bad IMO but not atrocious.  My main intrigue from a beggars can't be choosers stand point is wondering if they went to town with him with heavy RPO-RO, what would happen?

Edited February 23, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

We should cut TH now, so he can find which couch, he will be sitting on.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Well, yeah, but...

 

He's judging Heineke on what equates to his 'rookie' season, with no weapons and the worst defense on earth, and he still won 7 games.  He's only going to get better from here and we've shown we can win with him.  Oh, and by the way - Heineke beat the goat, so yeah....

 

Remember last year before things went south at the end of the season, when some in the Heinicke Hive were insisting that we needed to immediately sign him to a 3-4 year deal for $10-20 million per year and how it would seem like a bargain a year or two from now?   

[Redskins 2021]

I like Henike but he does not throw the ball well. All his other skills are above average which make him a top end back up.  He probably is a top 3 back up in nfl but since he does not throw the ball very well he probably can't be a top end starter. 

 Is he better then Trubisky or Marrota maybe but he is probably not good enough to be a starter on a top end team. Regardless, some vet Trubisky, Marriotta, Bridgewater, or Winston  needs to be sign for a.camp battle. There a spot for Heinike on this team probably not a starting spot but definitely a spot on the team.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Remember last year before things went south at the end of the season, when some in the Heinicke Hive were insisting that we needed to immediately sign him to a 3-4 year deal for $10-20 million per year and how it would seem like a bargain a year or two from now?   

I vividly remember. 🤣

 

It's probably why I have zero patience left with the few who are still hanging on to the hope that our putrid offense was the result of everyone but Heineke.

[Skinsinparadise]

lol, as for the comparison but it brings my point home, I don't get why we'd celebrate to add another "have" team in the NFC East when that team isn't us.    I don't care that they can use that draft capital to build other spots.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

NGL Russ Wilson makes those Commanders uniforms just a little bit snazzier

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

B.  Likes Russell Wilson, his numbers were good pre injury. He believes the injury effected his play especially consideing he's a push the envelope kind of passer, deep balls, outside the numbers, etc.  He said one of the best deep throwers in the league.    He thinks its a good fit to this team.

All my eggs are in this basket.  I know some are concerned about his age, what it would take to get him, etc.  Not me.  

 

My only concern is that Seattle would have to sell their fanbase on moving on from Russell.  There's no QB in the draft they can sell and we don't have a QB we can make part of the trade.  I see that as the primary reason he won't end up here or most likely anywhere but Seattle this offseason.

[kingdaddy]

Say what you want about TH's limitations but some of the things that stick out to me about him are his grit, competitiveness and his willingness to learn and get better. He played a full season last year and very few, even his own coaches, were convinced he'd be able to do that. He also learned to slide and protect himself over making the most he could out of every play. He has worked himself into an NFL career over many (Rosen, Haskins to name a couple) who were drafted over him or higher than him. TH showed that, given a good running game and solid defense he can beat the best QB's in the game. That's not to say he's our franchise QB future but, given what we are paying him, he got 7 wins in his first year as a full-time QB even dealing with massive injuries around him and other factors out of his control. 

I would bet everything that TH is working his ass off every day to improve on his limitations or and weaknesses getting ready for his next shot, wherever and whenever that comes. I have no doubt he'll come back in 2022 and be better than he was last year just because he's gotten a taste and got great experience. I'd go to war with TH any day...

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Say what you want about TH's limitations but some of the things that stick out to me about him are his grit, competitiveness and his willingness to learn and get better. He played a full season last year and very few, even his own coaches, were convinced he'd be able to do that. He also learned to slide and protect himself over making the most he could out of every play. He has worked himself into an NFL career over many (Rosen, Haskins to name a couple) who were drafted over him or higher than him. TH showed that, given a good running game and solid defense he can beat the best QB's in the game. That's not to say he's our franchise QB future but, given what we are paying him, he got 7 wins in his first year as a full-time QB even dealing with massive injuries around him and other factors out of his control. 

I would bet everything that TH is working his ass off every day to improve on his limitations or and weaknesses getting ready for his next shot, wherever and whenever that comes. I have no doubt he'll come back in 2022 and be better than he was last year just because he's gotten a taste and got great experience. I'd go to war with TH any day...

But he didn't get better. His performances got noticeably worse as the season went on. He actually was putting up some nice statistical games early on(Giants game, Falcons game)but after that he basically devolved into bottom 5 starter for just about every remaining game of the season, with the exception of the Bucs game where he played alright.

 

I think you're forgetting just how horrendously bad he was in some of those late season division games. Even the finale, which yes we won, had nothing to do with Heinicke, he was terrible in that game and only won because the opposing team was playing a guy who isn't even professional caliber at all.

[Ball Security]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Galdi podcast, he interviewed the guy who just did the PFF annual on QBs.  I get to check that out, it typically has a ton of details.

 

Here are his takes:

 

A.  He doesn't think Heinicke is an NFL starter, he's one of the least accurate QBs in the league and that is especially true for throws outside the flat/going past 10 yards.  He thinks he limits this team's offense and it would be much better served with a QB who can get the ball down the field.

 

B.  Likes Russell Wilson, his numbers were good pre injury. He believes the injury effected his play especially consideing he's a push the envelope kind of passer, deep balls, outside the numbers, etc.  He said one of the best deep throwers in the league.    He thinks its a good fit to this team.

 

C. Jimmy G.  Mixed report.  throws well in the flat, sets up playmakers for YAC.  Doesn't make too many big time throws.  Throws the ball in harms way.  Struggles with pressure.  He thinks the surrounding cast is critical with him.

 

D.  Trubisky.  He's not a fan.  He thinks he's at best a bottom tier starter.   Even in 2018, his peak year the numbers were deceiving, had a lot of luck that year and PFF didn't give him a good score after diving into his play.  He thinks it was clever for him to go to Buffalo and create a narrative that he's regrouping, he can see teams talking themsleves into it but believes these teams will be wrong.

 

E.  Winston.  He's actually OK with him.  High variance numbers -- good/bad but he gives his receivers a chance because he will take the ball down the field.

 

 

He thinks everything beng equal keep shooting for a franchise QB.  You can have a one off season without one but the success doesn't tend to last.

Just listened to that too.  Definitely was unconvinced with Trubisky, but seemed pretty high on Winston as a bridge guy.  He highlighted his ability to push the ball down the field.  However he’s a big play/big mistake guy — not all that different than Fitzpatrick.

 

Sees big red flags with Wentz if Reich wants to part with him after a year.

 

Wish they talked about Mariota some.

 

I do agree with him about not sending compensation for mediocre guys.

 

The more I think about it, the more prepared I am for them to grab Mariota/Trubisky in FA and then draft their guy.

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

Say what you want about TH's limitations but some of the things that stick out to me about him are his grit, competitiveness and his willingness to learn and get better. He played a full season last year and very few, even his own coaches, were convinced he'd be able to do that. He also learned to slide and protect himself over making the most he could out of every play. He has worked himself into an NFL career over many (Rosen, Haskins to name a couple) who were drafted over him or higher than him. TH showed that, given a good running game and solid defense he can beat the best QB's in the game. That's not to say he's our franchise QB future but, given what we are paying him, he got 7 wins in his first year as a full-time QB even dealing with massive injuries around him and other factors out of his control. 

I would bet everything that TH is working his ass off every day to improve on his limitations or and weaknesses getting ready for his next shot, wherever and whenever that comes. I have no doubt he'll come back in 2022 and be better than he was last year just because he's gotten a taste and got great experience. I'd go to war with TH any day...

 That what makes him a perfect backup. 

[Mrshadow008]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lol, as for the comparison but it brings my point home, I don't get why we'd celebrate to add another "have" team in the NFC East when that team isn't us.    I don't care that they can use that draft capital to build other spots.  

 

 

 

Amazing the responses Ive gotten to that tweet. At least three saying Mcnabb 2.0. One that would prefer Jimmy G or Wentz. One that prefers we draft a young guy instead. And one GIF saying disgusting.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

But he didn't get better. His performances got noticeably worse as the season went on. He actually was putting up some nice statistical games early on(Giants game, Falcons game)but after that he basically devolved into bottom 5 starter for just about every remaining game of the season, with the exception of the Bucs game where he played alright.

 

I think you're forgetting just how horrendously bad he was in some of those late season division games. Even the finale, which yes we won, had nothing to do with Heinicke, he was terrible in that game and only won because the opposing team was playing a guy who isn't even professional caliber at all.

 

I like how the Heinicke bar has apparently now been moved to "He played a full season and learned how to slide"

 

Someone get my checkbook.

 

That being said, I'm glad Heinicke is still working his butt off to be the best backup he can be (or possibly 3rd stringer, depending on how this FA, trade, and draft go down).

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Say what you want about TH's limitations but some of the things that stick out to me about him are his grit, competitiveness and his willingness to learn and get better. He played a full season last year and very few, even his own coaches, were convinced he'd be able to do that. He also learned to slide and protect himself over making the most he could out of every play. He has worked himself into an NFL career over many (Rosen, Haskins to name a couple) who were drafted over him or higher than him. TH showed that, given a good running game and solid defense he can beat the best QB's in the game. That's not to say he's our franchise QB future but, given what we are paying him, he got 7 wins in his first year as a full-time QB even dealing with massive injuries around him and other factors out of his control. 

I would bet everything that TH is working his ass off every day to improve on his limitations or and weaknesses getting ready for his next shot, wherever and whenever that comes. I have no doubt he'll come back in 2022 and be better than he was last year just because he's gotten a taste and got great experience. I'd go to war with TH any day...

Nobody cares how hard he works and nobody cares if he's got grit or moxie or whatever other catchy adjectives you try and replace being a competent NFL QB with.  Let it go man. Other than a small handful of fans, everyone knows he can't play in this league. Everyone and they're very vocal about it.

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I saw that tweet.  Ridder doesn't look 4.4 level fast to my eyes.  But if runs 4.4 that will get my attention. 

He seems to be a long strider so his speed can be deceiving.  

[Redskins 2021]

Out of the Bridge Qb are best option is Jamies Winston but his personal history is bad. He does have the most talent of all these guys.  He does not same like a guy Ron would want. 

 

Jimmy G sounds like it is going to cost a first round pick. That not worth it.

 

Trubisky has a couple teams interested he is probably who we take. There are other teams that want him

 

Mariotta is rumored to replace Wentz as colts Qb. 

 

Wentz I have no idea where he will go. 

 

We have been linked to Andy Dalton because are Qb coach has worked with him in the past.

 

None of these are good options.

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Mrshadow008]

4 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Out of the Bridge Qb are best option is Jamies Winston but his personal history is bad. He does have the most talent of all these guys.  He does not same like a guy Ron would want. 

 

 

 

Ron isnt the type to turn someone down because of their past if he believes theyve changed. Winston is all by all accounts a good teammate and well liked.