The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Chris 44]

We have to wait until March 28 for Mayes pro day......and still over a month till the draft. 

[jservs7]

I just wish they'd do something different with these ****ing "pro" days. 

 

Wake me up when someone is running through reps with a cocaine bear on the field. 

[mac8887]

I’m really excited about this team. LT is still concerning me, but it believe there are 4 QBs that will be legitimate starters in this league, maybe 5 if Penix knee holds up. After watching Sam make bad decisions last year, I’m really hoping we land a guy that’s a great decision maker.

[mac8887]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

His really really poor rate of throwing outside of the pocket when pressured is a bad sign. In that stat he was ranked 193 out of 196 prospects since 2018. So usually when he faces pressure his eyes come down and he runs instead of buying time, keeping his eyes downfield, and finding an open receiver (VoR mentioned this in his play by play breakdown of a Daniels game...and also noted that when pressured he also just flat out misses wide open guys).

 

Now, to be fair, a lot of the time those "lower his eyes and run" wind up in good chunk yards. But that sort of thing is not a recipe for success as a long term NFL starter, especially at his frail size. Statistically it will end up with him getting injured. Usually NFL coaches want guys who can scramble, escape pressure, keep their eyes downfield and get the ball to an open guy. And if there's nobody open, then run.

At least we know now that while he was at ASU playing under Herm Edward’s, he was coached to look for the run, instead of the pass when the play broke down. We found that out in the Kiem/Herm interview. We don’t know what he was coached to do at LSU. It could be that he was coached to do the same thing, especially after looking at most of LSUs play designs. Their rout trees were designed to leave an open area of the field, usually the center of the field relatively close to the LOS open, giving Jayden a lot of open green to run to if he didn’t like what he saw.

[DogofWar1]

1 hour ago, jservs7 said:

I just wish they'd do something different with these ****ing "pro" days. 

 

Wake me up when someone is running through reps with a cocaine bear on the field. 

Flaming hoops that shoot fireworks when the ball goes through them.

 

Giant speed limit sign with a radar on it for measuring the ball velocity.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, mac8887 said:

I’m really excited about this team. LT is still concerning me, but it believe there are 4 QBs that will be legitimate starters in this league, maybe 5 if Penix knee holds up.

I’m gonna say two

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

We have to wait until March 28 for Mayes pro day......and still over a month till the draft. 

Another month of the same 5 basic posts being regurgitated (we might still get Williams/Maye is the love child of Josh Allen and Justin Herbert/Daniels is NOT too light/trade down is the only way/JJ is the future).

 

Deep joy.

[CommanderInTheRye]

The draft is over a month away and our front office's nickname is "Fort Knox"-- they keep their thinking closely guarded.

 

Nobody knows what's going to happen, including Albert Breer.

 

Full stop.

 

However, he does have more credibility than most of the talking heads and I thought this deserves to be posted here...

 

 

 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

So minus arguments of the Top 3 QB's...

 

What QB that we aren't going to draft that you are oddly rooting for?

 

I think Penix could have a surprisingly solid (but not dominant) career. Wherever he lands I'm curious to see how he does.

[illone]

1 minute ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

So minus arguments of the Top 3 QB's...

 

What QB that we aren't going to draft that you are oddly rooting for?

 

I think Penix could have a surprisingly solid (but not dominant) career. Wherever he lands I'm curious to see how he does.

 

same. Penix arm intrigues. Very curious if the miami rumors are true. That could be an interesting spot for him.  
 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

Penix throws the ball better than any qb I watched last year-- up until the championship game, that is.

 

If it weren't for his injury history and questionable mobility under stress (which is possibly injury related) he'd have to be considered with the rest of the big 3 4 qbs.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, mac8887 said:

At least we know now that while he was at ASU playing under Herm Edward’s, he was coached to look for the run, instead of the pass when the play broke down. We found that out in the Kiem/Herm interview. We don’t know what he was coached to do at LSU. It could be that he was coached to do the same thing, especially after looking at most of LSUs play designs. Their rout trees were designed to leave an open area of the field, usually the center of the field relatively close to the LOS open, giving Jayden a lot of open green to run to if he didn’t like what he saw.

 

Or it could be that he just isn't very good at keeping his eyes downfield after breaking the pocket. and has an innate tendency to tuck it and run way too much. We saw in cutups and in VoR's breakdown how he bailed when he had guys who were clearly open. Do you really think that coaches at a huge program like LSU want their 190lb QB to not extend plays with his arm and throw of platform to guys down the field? I find that pretty hard to believe.

 

3 hours ago, Conn said:

Your posts confuse me because it’s Maye whose off-platform improvisation in (and out of) the pocket reminds some of Mahomes and Rodgers. Not Daniels. That isn’t his game, he doesn’t as a rule extend the play behind the LOS and make magic happen downfield, that’s Maye. Daniels runs. Not as a last resort after waiting to see if he can shake anyone open by evading the pass rush behind the LOS—but as a primary plan B after his initial reads, regardless of who is breaking open or not. You’re advocating for Maye’s skillset here and don’t seem to realize it. 
 

 

Yeah he doesn't make mush sense. On one hand he raves about guys who can extend plays, throw off platform, and play "backyard football' (which is mostly Williams and Maye in this draft) but then on the other hand he has a fetish for guys who run 4.3 40s, regardless of whether they can actually do all that off platform stuff.

Edited March 23 by mistertim

[CommanderInTheRye]

Giants seem to have given up on Daniel Jones and now they're seemingly desperate to at least get one of the top 4 qbs, but the Vikings seem poised to prevent even that.

 

That meaningless win they had over us sure feels great now, just over a month before the draft.

 

XXX

 

 

REPORT: New York Giants Changed Their Mind On Quarterback Plans For 2024 Season

 

Per John Frascella with Razzball, the Giants planned to take LSU quarterback Jayden Daniels in the draft. But because of his popularity with the Washington Commanders and New England Patriots, the Giants have set their sights on J.J. McCarthy:

“While it’s come out that the Giants are upset someone leaked the JJ McCarthy story, my source tells me they were even more interested in Jayden Daniels. However, it has become clear to the Giants that Daniels is DEFINITELY going in the top 3 of the NFL Draft, thus their attention turned completely to McCarthy.”

Benjamin Allbright with KOA Colorado confirmed Franscella’s report.

 

 

Edited March 23 by CommanderInTheRye

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

JJ >>> Maye at this stage…

 

Man, the things that you pull out of your rectal cavity would put the guys from Jackass to shame.

[illone]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Man, the things that you pull out of your rectal cavity would put the guys from Jackass to shame.

 

He got that from me 🤣

 

Dont hate. 

[zCommander]

28 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Giants seem to have given up on Daniel Jones and now they're seemingly desperate to at least get one of the top 4 qbs,

 

Too bad the Giants won couple of meaningless game then 

[mac8887]

37 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Or it could be that he just isn't very good at keeping his eyes downfield after breaking the pocket. and has an innate tendency to tuck it and run way too much. We saw in cutups and in VoR's breakdown how he bailed when he had guys who were clearly open. Do you really think that coaches at a huge program like LSU want their 190lb QB to not extend plays with his arm and throw of platform to guys down the field? I find that pretty hard to believe.

 

Not sure what LSU told him to do, but we know with 100% certainty that at ASU they had him look for the run over making the throw once he started moving. This was not Jayden’s decision, it was Herms, and he made the decision because he knew Jayden’s running ability was elite, and Herm is also really big on protecting the ball. This was all in the Kiem/Edwards interview.

 

Is it so far fetched that the LSU coaching staff would see and conclude the same things? I think not. I imagine they were perfectly happy with how Jayden played, he did win the Heisman after all, for best player in college football.
 

As others have posted on this thread, LSUs offense was built in a way that made Jayden’s legs the check down decision, quite often, it’s easy to see if you watch enough of LSUs film.

 

Not only that, he showed growth in his ability to throw on the run this year vs the years prior. So even if LSU wanted him to throw more at least he showed growth, and potential in that aspect of his game, and that’s after 2 years of being coached to run when things got messy.

 

[NOLA2DC]

7 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Please respond to my post above about his bottom of the barrel numbers for throwing after being pressured. Thank you in advance for not replying with vague generic platitudes, we all appreciate it.

You can't mean this, right:

"In 2023, he faced pressure on 25.5% of his dropbacks and in these situations, he had a PFF grade of 82.2 and a passer rating of 123.5." https://withthefirstpick.com/posts/2024-nfl-draft-why-jayden-daniels-is-a-tricky-evaluation-01hq6kj8sp4c

Or, I think you're referring to the numerous PPF rankings that have Maye and Penix as the top guy in a variety of categories. 

Oh, here's the platitude. Brye Young was the top-rated QB under pressure coming out last year. You guys kill me thinking you've found a sound secret metric that no one else has discovered.  A lot of folks on here have a preference and that's all it is. 

 

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

So minus arguments of the Top 3 QB's...

 

What QB that we aren't going to draft that you are oddly rooting for?

 

I think Penix could have a surprisingly solid (but not dominant) career. Wherever he lands I'm curious to see how he does.

Bo nix got that swag, he is truly underrated in his ability to extend plays,

 

Joe Milton just for the fact that he has a cannon and unbelievable physical traits and abilities, I’m interested if by the end of his rookie contract, if any of these NFL QB gurus can fix his processing and accuracy issues. If so, he could be a 3rd day gem.

 

JJ McCarthy, the dude has whatever “it” is, I think he will succeed. He is a great field processor, strong arm, a really good runner that is pretty shifty, and throws very well on the move. Plus he’s been coached by one of the best coaches to ever coach. I’d be perfectly fine trading back a spot and taking him at #3.

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Not sure what LSU told him to do, but we know with 100% certainty that at ASU they had him look for the run over making the throw once he started moving. This was not Jayden’s decision, it was Herms, and he made the decision because he knew Jayden’s running ability was elite, and Herm is also really big on protecting the ball. This was all in the Kiem/Edwards interview.

 

Is it so far fetched that the LSU coaching staff would see and conclude the same things? I think not. I imagine they were perfectly happy with how Jayden played, he did win the Heisman after all, for best player in college football.
 

As others have posted on this thread, LSUs offense was built in a way that made Jayden’s legs the check down decision, quite often, it’s easy to see if you watch enough of LSUs film.

 

Not only that, he showed growth in his ability to throw on the run this year vs the years prior. So even if LSU wanted him to throw more at least he showed growth, and potential in that aspect of his game, and that’s after 2 years of being coached to run when things got messy.

 

 

So you think LSU's coaches WANTED Daniels to break the pocket, miss open receivers down the field and instead run and risk getting injured, considering how frail his body type is?

 

That's quite a take.

[mac8887]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

So you think LSU's coaches WANTED Daniels to break the pocket, miss open receivers down the field and instead run and risk getting injured, considering how frail his body type is?

 

That's quite a take.

Why though, we know for 100% certainty that is what they wanted from him at ASU playing under Herm Edward’s, a NFL guy. Yes he might of taken more sacks because of it, but his completion percentage was really high, he made huge plays, and he didn’t turn the ball over.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

Why though, we know for 100% certainty that is what they wanted from him at ASU playing under Herm Edward’s, a NFL guy. Yes he might of taken more sacks because of it, but his completion percentage was really high, he made huge plays, and he didn’t turn the ball over.

 

Thank you for completely ignoring my question by simply repeating the same thing you did before. Very enlightening. 

[mac8887]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Thank you for completely ignoring my question by simply repeating the same thing you did before. Very enlightening. 

I think LSU was fine with him running, if not they would’ve put a stop to it. He is slendor, not frail. If he was frail he would’ve never played in as many games as he did without getting injured. Do you have his medicals? The dude might just have really strong bones and ligaments. As to missing open guys down field, I believe he had one of the highest completion percentages in CFB last year, on top of that, isn’t he also the one that gets bashed for hitting his open receivers?

 

Why risk a throw when you can get the first down with your legs, every time the ball is in the air it is more likely to be turned over. Jayden is an elite athlete, yes the NFL coaches will get on him more about protecting himself, but they will not have him do things that will hamstring his success as a player or the team as a whole, and yes that includes letting him take off whenever he feels the opportunity is there. If someone has that ability, then you use it, you use anything you can that helps to win games.

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I think LSU was fine with him running, if not they would’ve put a stop to it. He is slendor, not frail. If he was frail he would’ve never played in as many games as he did without getting injured. Do you have his medicals? The dude might just have really strong bones and ligaments. As to missing open guys down field, I believe he had one of the highest completion percentages in CFB last year, on top of that, isn’t he also the one that gets bashed for hitting his open receivers?

 

Why risk a throw when you can get the first down with your legs, every time the ball is in the air it is more likely to be turned over. Jayden is an elite athlete, yes the NFL coaches will get on him more about protecting himself, but they will not have him do things that will hamstring his success as a player or the team as a whole, and yes that includes letting him take off whenever he feels the opportunity is there. If someone has that ability, then you use it, you use anything you can that helps to win games.

 

So your answer is "Yes, I believe the coaches at LSU told him to put his head down and run instead of extend plays and hit open guys down the field"

 

And his completion percentage doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he had a historically low amount of times where he bailed from the pocket and hit guys downfield. 

 

And yes he missed guys down the field, especially when breaking the pocket and/or pressured. VoR literally did a throw by throw breakdown where he pointed this out multiple times.

 

Why risk throwing when you could get a first down with your legs? Maybe because every time a QB (especially a frail or slightly framed one) runs it increases the chances of the most important player on the team getting injured. That's just straight up statistics. 

 

Also, even IF the coaches at LSU told him to not extend and throw but to run (which they almost surely didn't), NFL coaches are going to be looking for guys who can do that: break the pocket, buy time, extend the play, keep their eyes downfield, and make off platform throws.

 

No way actual NFL team scouts are going to miss that that's an area where Daniels is super weak.

Edited March 23 by mistertim

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

15 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Why risk a throw when you can get the first down with your legs, every time the ball is in the air it is more likely to be turned over.

This is kind of like saying “why bother learning to dribble with your left hand?” Keeping your eyes down field when you are scrambling is a pretty basic fundamental.

Edited March 23 by Sacks 'n' Stuff