The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[zCommander]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

This is the only team that wanted to sign him for multiple years, now, after his second starting stretch he's back on the hot seat with the HC refusing to name him a long term starter and bringing the starter back to tha active roster and you guys are discussing the contract that Heini could "demand."

 

I love this place.

 

Do you actually know WHY Ron is not naming him for the rest of the season? Oh yeah, he went out and spent millions on Wentz so he can't take that away from him. He is being good sport about it. Also it keeps TH fighting on the field for his future as well. A win-win actually. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Do you actually know WHY Ron is not naming him for the rest of the season? Oh yeah, he went out and spent millions on Wentz so he can't take that away from him. He is being good sport about it. Also it keeps TH fighting on the field for his future as well. A win-win actually. 

Did Ron tell you that? 

[zCommander]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Did Ron tell you that? 

 

I asked you first.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Do you actually know WHY Ron is not naming him for the rest of the season? Oh yeah, he went out and spent millions on Wentz so he can't take that away from him. He is being good sport about it. Also it keeps TH fighting on the field for his future as well. A win-win actually. 

The draft picks and $28M have already been written off, there’s 4 weeks left in the season.  That has zippy to do with Ron not committing to Taylor.  

[zCommander]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The draft picks and $28M have already been written off, there’s 4 weeks left in the season.  That has zippy to do with Ron not committing to Taylor.  

 

Look we are all humans and most of us care. Ron cares. I am going off of that human element. It makes more sense that he is being a nice guy that he is. It really doesn't bother me that TH was not named the starter. Just win games is all that I care about right now as far as this season goes. Will be interesting to see what he does next year though. 

[Est.1974]

8 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Oh yeah, he went out and spent millions on Wentz so he can't take that away from him.

I agree with this part. It’s no coincidence that Rivera publicly threw his toys out of the pram over Wentz not that many weeks ago. Rivera took full accountability for the acquisition etc etc etc. He’s trying to save some face IMO. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

I asked you first.

 

I was just pointing out things that are actually, literally happening.

 

You presented insider info as to why you know those things are happening. 

 

The idea that Heini will play harder without being named the starter is dumb. If you think he'd do that, how the heck could you even like him as a person?

 

but dumber yet that it's because they spent money on Wentz, so they're going to pretend that they can't make him the starter?  Did I get that right?

 

And that they are worried about Wentz feelings? lol Are you ****ing kidding me? He just got slammed out of Philly and then had an owner saddle him with every franchise wrong doing the last two years

 

but no, we don't want to hurt his feelings. 

 

Yeah, that makes waaay more sense than the former pretty good QB was struggling, lost his job to injury while the team went on a win streak and now the back up QB has struggled the last two weeks and had a late season melt down last year and they want insurance for our playoff run.

 

I am on 2 high grade pain killing prescribed pharmaceuticals that I mixing with recreationals and I know what you're proposing is ridiculous. 

 

Absolute clown shoes.

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I was just pointing out things that are actually, literally happening.

 

You presented insider info as to why you know those things are happening. 

 

The idea that Heini will play harder without being named the starter is dumb. If you think he'd do that, how the heck could you even like him as a person?

 

but dumber yet that it's because they spent money on Wentz, so they're going to pretend that they can't make him the starter?  Did I get that right?

 

And that they are worried about Wentz feelings? lol Are you ****ing kidding me? He just got slammed out of Philly and then had an owner saddle him with every franchise wrong doing the last two years

 

but no, we don't want to hurt his feelings. 

 

Yeah, that makes waaay more sense than the former pretty good QB was struggling, lost his job to injury while the team went on a win streak and now the back up QB has struggled the last two weeks and had a late season melt down last year and they want insurance for our playoff run.

 

I am on 2 high grade pain killing prescribed pharmaceuticals that I mixing with recreationals and I know what you're proposing is ridiculous. 

 

Absolute clown shoes.

 

You are way to funnier when you are pumped up on pain killer. Talk about clown shoes! 

 

If you think the human guilty element doesn't play any role into this then I am not sure what else I can say. 

 

Btw, I didn't say it would hurt Wentz feelings. It is more about Ron as a person instead. 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by zCommander

[FootballZombie]

 

Man have I seen some stuff on here over the last few days.

-Lack of running is good

-Being so terrible that the OC is forced into an optimal gameplan b/c he does not have another option gives player value

-Not having the confidence of the coaching staff to be committed to is fine

 

All negatives in my book.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

You are way to funnier when you are pumped up on pain killer. Talk about clown shoes! 

 

If you think the human guilty element doesn't play any role into this then I am not sure what else I can say. 

 

Btw, I didn't say it would hurt Wentz feelings. It is more about Ron as a person instead. 

 

You know when I say that I thought you were 14? It's when you post things like that. 

 

The NFL is an adult workplace and there are no questions as to why Wentz is QB2 and Heini isn't the long term starter. There's no question why Heini has still been the starter, either. 

 

It's not surprising that Wentz gets activated for the bye either. It's a lot of predictable stuff. Not a mystery wrapped in man feelings.

[wit33]

15 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

That'd make sense if we ran design QB run plays but we don't.

 

The run game got better because the OL restabilized and we got Robinson back into the lineup with his legs back under him after the shooting. 

 

Heinicke's presence has no real effect on the effectiveness of the run game.

Must admit, I thought Heineke would do a bit more in terms of providing rhythm and short 3rd down conversions, but still believe he’s providing average returns in area of establishing momentum through contributing to an offense that gets 1st downs and scores in quarters consistently. 
 

13 hours ago, CommanderCarson said:

If we win I’ll read all week that heineke is a dead man walking against San Fran and that it’s only a matter of time!

 

Wild, so many underestimate the value of dominating in the trenches—it’s the ultimate talent neutralizer!
 

It will be a brawl with Niners, but Washington has the big uglies to compete. Cosmi and Turner returning and remaining healthy will be key for the run game. 
 

 

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You are going to read that all week no matter what happens, because it’s a logical take.  I’d argue the only potential X factor is if Taylor decides to start using his legs.  If he’s determined to pass from the pocket, the 49ers are precisely the team to make him pay for inaccurate throws.  

 

Obviously, it’d be great if for whatever reason we can successfully run the football down their throats and not need TH to do much.  But chances are slim on that.

 

Complete homer, but logic still remains, Washington is one of the more physical teams in the NFL and matches up well with Niners. Will be huge to have Cosmi and Turner and rest of Oline ready to go.

 

 

Niners play in a soft/finesse division and their entire schedule has been a lot of finesse teams. They got punched in the mouth earlier in season by Falcons. Washington will attempt to punch them in the mouth, let’s see how they respond. 

 

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I do kind of agree with the others that Heinicke is a big part of why we're winning.

 

But that doesn't mean I think he is a necessary part of the soup moving forward, him coming in and starting absolutely helped turn us around. 

 

Why? The insertion of Heinicke into the lineup did two things. 1) It provided a spark to the players and the locker room. This team was DOA until a guy they loved was inserted into the lineup. 2) It forced Turner to find our offensive identity and manufacture gameplans that highlighted that. He no longer had the QB with the arm to push the field vertically. The quicker release passes, a QB with mobility and a heavy focus on the running game helped us dominate TOP and win with rushing and defense.

 

I doubt we change our plan if Wentz is still the QB.

 

But, now, on the flip side: Now that we know the formula for success, would Wentz have a similar amount of success as Heinicke? Not sure. He'd definitely stretch the field vertically and make defenses defend the whole field. But that also means our interior OL has to protect for longer because Wentz needs the time to throw. Spoiler alert: They won't. But if they did it's hard to argue that Wentz in a run focused gameplan wouldn't be better than Heinicke as it pertains to playaction passing and stretching the field. 

 

It's a tough conversation to have because there are so many variables and not as clear cut as many want it to be. 

 

Heineke has established a higher floor and that has more vlaue to a team than an inconsistent ceiling. 
 

Washington has scored in 23 out of 28 quarters and averages nearly 12 points (11.8) in the first half with Heineke. Washington averages 21 first downs with Heineke which is good for top 10 in NFL during this time. Heineke during his time has passed for 73 first downs (10.4 per game) and Washington has rushed for 64 first downs (9.14 per game). 
 

When all put together it’s a competent offense that helps the defense a great deal as well. 
 

Red zone, Red zone, and more Red zone is the key for the offense to take the next step. Heineke seems to be doing some soul searching in how to manage this area of the field. He’s become ultra conservative in this area of the field, but he should be able to flourish in this area due to so much of success in red zone coming down to improv. He hasn’t really had to force the issue, because game flow hasn’t required it, so I get him being more conservative during this recent run. 

 

3 hours ago, HogsVa7 said:

I watched the 49ers game last night. As a Heinicke supporter, I believe he's going to throw like three picks against that defense. The 49ers defense is just a different animal. I hope he proves me wrong but Idk.

You’re sleeping on Washington, your very own team. Washington has ability to punch th in the mouth and compete at the line of scrimmage. The big uglies combined with a clear identity can take down a team like Niners. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I agree with this part. It’s no coincidence that Rivera publicly threw his toys out of the pram over Wentz not that many weeks ago. Rivera took full accountability for the acquisition etc etc etc. He’s trying to save some face IMO. 

This makes zero sense, as there is no face to be saved by simply not committing fully to Taylor for the rest of the season.

 

It makes much more sense that he grins and bears Taylor playing as long as the team wins, but has eyes just like the rest of us.

 

[CommDownMan]

39 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

This is the only team that wanted to sign him for multiple years, now, after his second starting stretch he's back on the hot seat with the HC refusing to name him a long term starter and bringing the starter back to tha active roster and you guys are discussing the contract that Heini could "demand."

 

I love this place.

 

I call him a backup, give specifics for other backups and then you made all your knocks by saying arguments against being a starter 3 times?  At least you were nice enough to put demand in quotes since that wasn't said either.

 

Heinicke isn't a starter.  He shouldn't be the plan as the starter.  He shouldn't be handed a role as starter.  His value is as a backup and he will likely get a shot as a backup.  That's why there is a conversation about what his market would likely be when viewed with other backups.  

 

If you wish to disagree, tell me why his value should be less than 5-6 mill that is Bridgewater, T.Taylor, Brissett range, not that he isn't the starter.

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Man have I seen some stuff on here over the last few days.

-Lack of running is good

-Being so terrible that the OC is forced into an optimal gameplan b/c he does not have another option gives player value

-Not having the confidence of the coaching staff to be committed to is fine

 

All negatives in my book.

 

Right now the coach is committed to winning games and still leaving options open is case it needs to be exercised. In a battle you have to have more than one option. Right now it is a good strategy. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Right now the coach is committed to winning games and still leaving options open is case it needs to be exercised. In a battle you have to have more than one option. Right now it is a good strategy. 

You could have started with that

[HogsVa7]

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Must admit, I thought Heineke would do a bit more in terms of providing rhythm and short 3rd down conversions, but still believe he’s providing average returns in area of establishing momentum through contributing to an offense that gets 1st downs and scores in quarters consistently. 
 

 

Wild, so many underestimate the value of dominating in the trenches—it’s the ultimate talent neutralizer!
 

It will be a brawl with Niners, but Washington has the big uglies to compete. Cosmi and Turner returning and remaining healthy will be key for the run game. 
 

 

 

Complete homer, but logic still remains, Washington is one of the more physical teams in the NFL and matches up well with Niners. Will be huge to have Cosmi and Turner and rest of Oline ready to go.

 

 

Niners play in a soft/finesse division and their entire schedule has been a lot of finesse teams. They got punched in the mouth earlier in season by Falcons. Washington will attempt to punch them in the mouth, let’s see how they respond. 

 

 

Heineke has established a higher floor and that has more vlaue to a team than an inconsistent ceiling. 
 

Washington has scored in 23 out of 28 quarters and averages nearly 12 points (11.8) in the first half with Heineke. Washington averages 21 first downs with Heineke which is good for top 10 in NFL during this time. Heineke during his time has passed for 73 first downs (10.4 per game) and Washington has rushed for 64 first downs (9.14 per game). 
 

When all put together it’s a competent offense that helps the defense a great deal as well. 
 

Red zone, Red zone, and more Red zone is the key for the offense to take the next step. Heineke seems to be doing some soul searching in how to manage this area of the field. He’s become ultra conservative in this area of the field, but he should be able to flourish in this area due to so much of success in red zone coming down to improv. He hasn’t really had to force the issue, because game flow hasn’t required it, so I get him being more conservative during this recent run. 

 

You’re sleeping on Washington, your very own team. Washington has ability to punch th in the mouth and compete at the line of scrimmage. The big uglies combined with a clear identity can take down a team like Niners. 

I agree,  I'm just thinking worst case scenario. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, CommDownMan said:

 

I call him a backup, give specifics for other backups and then you made all your knocks by saying arguments against being a starter 3 times?  At least you were nice enough to put demand in quotes since that wasn't said either.

 

Heinicke isn't a starter.  He shouldn't be the plan as the starter.  He shouldn't be handed a role as starter.  His value is as a backup and he will likely get a shot as a backup.  That's why there is a conversation about what his market would likely be when viewed with other backups.  

 

If you wish to disagree, tell me why his value should be less than 5-6 mill that is Bridgewater, T.Taylor, Brissett range, not that he isn't the starter.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I think Heinicke is, could be, or that anyone rational thinks he could, be a legit starter. I also didn't mean to make it sound like you or anyone else was talking about him being a starter or getting starter money.

 

I thought that was very obvious.

 

If I had said "were arguing about back up QB salaries mattering a tiny bit" would it have mattered?

[zCommander]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You know when I say that I thought you were 14? It's when you post things like that. 

 

The NFL is an adult workplace and there are no questions as to why Wentz is QB2 and Heini isn't the long term starter. There's no question why Heini has still been the starter, either. 

 

It's not surprising that Wentz gets activated for the bye either. It's a lot of predictable stuff. Not a mystery wrapped in man feelings.

 

And being an adult also means making choices that are best for your team without losing the locker room. People also said Wentz would start after the bye. Nope. Feelings in the locker room from adults is also important in winning games. 

 

I really don't like your stance that if you are an adult you are not supposed to have feelings anymore. What world do you live in?

 

The reason you think I am 14 is because you think adults are not supposed to have any feelings. lol

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You could have started with that

 

Well where is the fun in our banter if I gave you everything on one platter.

 

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

And being an adult also means making choices that are best for your team without losing the locker room. People also said Wentz would start after the bye. Nope. Feelings in the locker room from adults is also important in winning games. 

 

I really don't like your stance that if you are an adult you are not supposed to have feelings anymore. What world do you live in?

 

The reason you think I am 14 is because you think adults are not supposed to have any feelings. lol

 

Well where is the fun in our banter if I gave you everything on one platter.

 

and none of that is true, but apparently I have hurt yours and I am sorry

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

and none of that is true, but apparently I have hurt yours and I am sorry

 

I am an adult. I have no feelings. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Wild, so many underestimate the value of dominating in the trenches—it’s the ultimate talent neutralizer!
 

It will be a brawl with Niners, but Washington has the big uglies to compete. Cosmi and Turner returning and remaining healthy will be key for the run game. 
 

 

 

D line and running game clearly the key dance for their winning streak, I think most recognize this team is winning with a physical-trench dominated approach.

 

The pessimism about the 49ers game I think is driven by 3 things.

 

A. 49ers defense even better and more physical than our defense.  They have the #1 defense in the league.

 

B.  they got the better O line

 

C.  They got the better QB 

[NeverSurrender]

Im going to say it,  We could win the next 4 games and end up with 11 wins.  All with TH at the helm.  This TEAM is good enough.  @Koolblue13 friendly sig bet?  

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Im going to say it,  We could win the next 4 games and end up with 11 wins.  All with TH at the helm.  This TEAM is good enough.  @Koolblue13 friendly sig bet?  

I didn't realize this site still had sigs.

 

I'm not going to route against this team. If we win 4 in a row with TH at QB awesome. Wins a win.

[zCommander]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

I didn't realize this site still had sigs.

 

 

Only adults are allowed to have sigs.

See mine below. 

[mh86]

46 minutes ago, CommDownMan said:

 

 

If you wish to disagree, tell me why his value should be less than 5-6 mill that is Bridgewater, T.Taylor, Brissett range, not that he isn't the starter.

I think 5-6 mil is reasonable for him if we were to sign him. He has more value to us than most other teams (imo). I would put other teams value in the 3-4 range. I could also see him staying here for 3.5-4.5 mil if he tested the waters with other teams and felt more comfortable here in this system with the team.