The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan covering Trubisky right now, talking about it with his producer.  They both agree (as I do) if they are betting on Trubisky as the solution, they are making a mistake.  Sheehan's producer is saying nonsarcastically that Trubisky will ensure a top 10 pick next season.

 

Standig loves talking about the fallout from fans if they sign Trubisky.

 

Trubisky would be an interesting ride.  While I don't disagree with those fans who say Trubisky has earned his punchline status.  IMO he definitely earned it.  And I agree that he won't turn around his career here.  But if he plays a half a peg better than Henicke and you combine that with their easier schedule -- i am not convinced they end up with a top 10 pick.

 

If its Trubisky, my prediction is we will have a thread cooking similar to the one last year with Heinicke where for awhile some will say maybe but then people backoff with the exception of some stragglers.  Below average QB play is rarely done in a straight line -- some good games, some bad games -- some so so games.

 

Trubisky IMHO is a low tier starter but is still IMO half a peg better than Taylor.  I think Taylor is likely a smarter QB than Trubisky.  As I mentioned, I don't think much of Trubisky intelligence as a QB.   They both have accuracy issues.  But IMO Trubisky can run better than Heinicke and while isn't accurate going deep, he at least has the arm to go deep.

 

 

 

I think his ceiling as to what he can do for the team, is the same impact Jimmy G has for San Fran, only the investment is much cheaper. He's certainly no answer and we can't lean on him, but we're building a machine that a rookie can slide into and race. He's just the practice driver.

 

We've sucked for 30 years. We all knew it wasn't getting turned around quickly. If we trade everything for an elite QB, we'll suck again in a few years. I want to really build something. 

 

If Ron turns us into a perpetual. 500 team who occasionally makes noise in the playoffs, but doesn't draft top 10, and our culture has changed, that's a win to build on.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

We've sucked for 30 years. We all knew it wasn't getting turned around quickly. If we trade everything for an elite QB, we'll suck again in a few years. I want to really build something. 

 

If Ron turns us into a perpetual. 500 team who occasionally makes noise in the playoffs, but doesn't draft top 10, and our culture has changed, that's a win to build on.

 

 

My take is it looks like hit had a really bad spell of luck.  Some want to kill him for it.  I'd kill him too if he didn't show EVERY indication possible that he believes its a QB league and wants to shoot for the fences.  The will to get a dude is obvious as heck.  The irony is I can't recall a coach who has been publicly this openly desperate about wanting a QB yet I find it beyond wild that some accuse him of not prioritizing the spot.

 

to me its like I stop at some random city on the way on a trip, that best restaurant might end up being Applebees.  I look everyhere to find a restaurant that offers really good food but it just doesn't exist where I am at.  And people then accuse me of not valuing fine cuisine because I ended up eating at Applebees.  And they define me as hey this dude can't appreciate good food, he's just about Applebees. 

 

The only thing I can hit Rivera about on the QB front is last year while he made some attempts, it was clear he talked himself into hey maybe its not that bad that we don't have that guy yet.  This year its a total change on that front from him.  But last year he didn't come off desperate. But the reason why I can't kill him for last year either is he was aggressive to go after Stafford, he did (according to Keim) tried to trade for Fields.  It's not like he blew it all off but he didn't have the air of desperation then that he clearly has now. 

 

Some say he should have traded down and picked up 2022 capital but with pick #19, I doubt they had a team wanting to give a bounty to trade up.  The Eagles and Giants had much better picks to trade down from.  This year we could probably trade down and pick up picks.  But regardless, the problem doesn't seem like its we don't have enough draft capital.  The problem seems to be the actual market is thin. 

 

Everything that could go wrong looks to have gone wrong from a luck standpoint.

 

A.  Often a QB or two comes out of the blue and changes the QB class.  Didn't really happen this year.

 

B.  Last year there were a ton of rumors about veterans hitting the market this off season.  It was a common narrative by reputable national reporters that this off season might be unprecedented as for QB movement.  But thus far it looks like a dud with teams who could trade their veterans are doing everything they can to keep them. 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

My take is it looks like hit had a really bad spell of luck.  Some want to kill him for it.  I'd kill him too if he didn't show EVERY indication possible that he believes its a QB league and wants to shoot for the fences.  The will to get a dude is obvious as heck.  The irony is I can't recall a coach who has been publicly this openly desperate about wanting a QB yet I find it beyond wild that some accuse him of not prioritizing the spot.

 

to me its like I stop at some random city on the way on a trip, that best restaurant might end up being Applebees.  I look everyhere to find a restaurant that offers really good food but it just doesn't exist where I am at.  And people then accuse me of not valuing fine cuisine because I ended up eating at Applebees.  And they define me as hey this dude can't appreciate good food, he's just about Applebees. 

 

The only thing I can hit Rivera about on the QB front is last year while he made some attempts, it was clear he talked himself into hey maybe its not that bad that we don't have that guy yet.  This year its a total change on that front from him.  But last year he didn't come off desperate. But the reason why I can't kill him for last year either is he was aggressive to go after Stafford, he did (according to Keim) tried to trade for Fields.  It's not like he blew it all off but he didn't have the air of desperation then that he clearly has now. 

 

Some say he should have traded down and picked up 2022 capital but with pick #19, I doubt they had a team wanting to give a bounty to trade up.  The Eagles and Giants had much better picks to trade down from.  This year we could probably trade down and pick up picks.  But regardless, the problem doesn't seem like its we don't have enough draft capital.  The problem seems to be the actual market is thin. 

 

Everything that could go wrong looks to have gone wrong from a luck standpoint.

 

A.  Often a QB or two comes out of the blue and changes the QB class.  Didn't really happen this year.

 

B.  Last year there were a ton of rumors about veterans hitting the market this off season.  It was a common narrative by reputable national reporters that this off season might be unprecedented as for QB movement.  But thus far it looks like a dud with teams who could trade their veterans are doing everything they can to keep them. 

 

 

Absolutely agree. He came up shorter than he should have last year, but he did try. This year is Applebee's and there's not much you can do about that. Next year seems like it'll be a wild QB year with trades, drafts and maybe even FAs. Can only force it to happen, if it's there. Like the Bears offer for Wilson last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think his ceiling as to what he can do for the team, is the same impact Jimmy G has for San Fran, only the investment is much cheaper. He's certainly no answer and we can't lean on him, but we're building a machine that a rookie can slide into and race. He's just the practice driver.

 

 

  @wit33 in particular might like me saying this.  I liked Alex Smith but never loved him.   I still don't love him.  But over time, I appreciate his smarts more now than I did then.  Watching and reading about Trubisky he comes off from a football intelligence standpoint as the anti-Alex Smith.  I think Jimmy G also brings more intangibles-smarts to the spot than Trubisky,

 

Will see.  I am not violently opposed to Trubisky like I was with Darnold.  But they do have a lot in common IMO.  The main difference for me with Trubisky is I like his athletic match to Turner's scheme.

 

I get Jay Gruden's point that Henicke has a good shot to beat Trubisky in camp.  I don't think that idea is crazy, I could see it.  But the reason why I think Trubisky wins it, is even though like Heinicke Trubisky's accuracy outside of the flat is erratic at best.  I do think purely as an athlete who can roll in the pocket, he's superior on that front to Heinicke, he can make the quick one read throws in the flat that Turner's offense generates.   And actually take off on some naked boots. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

  @wit33 in particular might like me saying this.  I liked Alex Smith but never loved him.   I still don't love him.  But over time, I appreciate his smarts more now than I did then.  Watching and reading about Trubisky he comes off from a football intelligence standpoint as the anti-Alex Smith.  I think Jimmy G also brings more intangibles-smarts to the spot than Trubisky,

 

Will see.  I am not violently opposed to Trubisky like I was with Darnold.  But they do have a lot in common IMO.  The main difference for me with Trubisky is I like his athletic match to Turner's scheme.

 

I get Jay Gruden's point that Henicke has a good shot to beat Trubisky in camp.  I don't think that idea is crazy, I could see it.  But the reason why I think Trubisky wins it, is even though like Heinicke Trubisky's accuracy outside of the flat is erratic at best.  I do think purely as an athlete who can roll in the pocket, he's superior on that front to Heinicke, he can make the quick one read throws in the flat that Turner's offense generates.   And actually take off on some naked boots. 

Yeah, I'm not saying that he'll play as well as JG or that he's even on his level. Just that the impact that I think he can have will be similar at best.

[Skinsinparadise]

Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers to Commanders? Team exploring all QB options

SHBURN, Va. -- The Washington Commanders have let teams, and the world, know what they want most this offseason: A quarterback. There is no secret, not when coach Ron Rivera has hammered this quest home since the season ended.

Washington's search to find a long-term solution has been decades in the making. The franchise has started 32 quarterbacks since it won the Super Bowl after the 1991 season and eight over the past three years. Rivera, entering the third year of his tenure, sees this as a time to be aggressive.

"They have a really good foundation," said ESPN analyst and former general manager Mike Tannenbaum. "This is the time and the window to be slightly aggressive."

 

Over the past four seasons Washington ranks last in total QBR. Not coincidentally, during that time Washington is 24-41 (26th in the NFL). Last season, with Taylor Heinicke starting, Washington (7-10) ranked 23rd in total QBR. Washington considers him a high-end backup or low-end starter.

All of this is why, according to a source, Washington has reached out to every team to inquire about a quarterback's availability and the cost. The team started its search with a list of 42 quarterbacks. Here are some of the options:

 

..Of this quarterback group, Wilson might be their best option. It's hard to imagine the Packers trading Rodgers in the NFC, even if he would agree to the deal. Watson's off-field situation remains unresolved, and the optics of acquiring him would be exacerbated by Washington owner Dan Snyder's situation with former employees alleging sexual misconduct.

 

Seattle doesn't have to trade Wilson and there might not be much desire from coach Pete Carroll, 70, to start over with another quarterback. But, for Washington, it's a chance to be aggressive and dream.

 

"Their front seven is really good. McLaurin is a bit underrated," Tannenbaum said of the Commanders. "They could use another piece or two -- as could most teams -- but with Russell they're in that conversation for best team in the conference."

 

San Francisco's Jimmy Garoppolo might be the most accomplished quarterback traded this offseason, with Trey Lance ready as his 49ers successor. Garoppolo has started on two teams that reached the NFC Championship Game and led the 49ers to a Super Bowl (2019 season). But in his four full seasons in San Francisco, he's played in 40 of a possible 65 games. That injury history will give Washington and other teams pause, considering they would have to give up a pick -- or picks -- to acquire him, plus sign him to an extension. Tannenbaum said he would give up a second-round pick for Garoppolo.

 

There is speculation about other quarterbacks being available, led by Derek Carr (Raiders), Kirk Cousins (Vikings) and Carson Wentz (Colts), but the question for the teams who would be trading those quarterbacks is this: What's next? That's why many sources don't expect these quarterbacks to be traded unless their teams can acquire a clear upgrade.

 

That leaves Garoppolo. Washington and other interested teams must decide if it's better to give up picks and money for him or just sign a lower-cost free agent. The team that acquires him probably wouldn't draft a quarterback, and would evaluate its QB situation every couple years.

 

...If Washington does sign a free agent, it most likely would pair him with a rookie, possibly a second- or third-round pick.

 

Of this group, Bridgewater and Trubisky would make the most sense for Washington, in part because of the staff's familiarity with them.

Washington offensive coordinator Scott Turner served as Bridgewater's position coach for three years in Minnesota, and executive vice president of football/player personnel Marty Hurney was with Carolina in the 2020 offseason when it signed Bridgewater.

 

Washington's new tight ends coach Juan Castillo was with Trubisky for one season in Chicago, and Rivera remains tight with Buffalo Bills coach Sean McDermott and Bills' general manager Brandon Beane. They can provide good insight on Trubisky's development after his one season in Buffalo. Washington left tackle Charles Leno played with Trubisky in Chicago.

 

...ESPN NFL draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. said signing Trubisky should not stop the Commanders from considering a quarterback with the 11th overall pick in the 2022 NFL draft.

"Trubisky is an interesting guy," he said. "I'm sure he learned a lot [in Buffalo]. He had some success with the Bears. Do you still take a QB at 11 when you bring [Trubisky] in, because he's no guarantee ... You're really speculative there. To think all of a sudden you can recreate the few glimpses of real good quarterback play we saw, I don't know if you can go that route.

 

"You don't need a backup plan for Jimmy G. ... You're getting a middle-of-the-road QB you can win with if the talent around him is good. The other guy you don't know. You pair him with a rookie."

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/42318/russell-wilson-or-aaron-rodgers-to-commanders-team-exploring-all-qb-options

[skinsfan93]

If we bring in Bridgewater I might kill myself. The guy has a weak arm, needs a glove to throw a spiral and has no mobility. There’s a reason he has been on 3 teams in the last 3 years. He a mediocre backup at best. 
 

Im kinda of torn on Trubisky. Strong arm and good mobility. Hopefully he learned some things backing up Allen. He MAY have some upside more so than Jimmy G. Jimmy is who he is, not durable, has some qb smarts but gonna never win the game for you plus he’s gonna cost us more money and draft capital. 
 

To me Trubisky is the lesser of 3 evils. Is that good? Probably not. 

[Skinsinparadise]

58 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I'm not saying that he'll play as well as JG or that he's even on his level. Just that the impact that I think he can have will be similar at best.

 

Could be, I admit I am not confident but its possible.  I was listening to talk radio feedback this morning on Trubisky and lol it makes me fear for Rivera if that's the move and it goes wrong and I think it does go wrong to some extent.  IMO I get them not forcing a QB in the first round if there isn't someone they believe in.  But if they sign Trubisky, IMO for a number of reasons they need to take a QB in the 2nd if they don't love one in the first, I gather either Ridder or Strong. 

 

It should be an interesting combine for Howell.  If he shows himself as a good athlete then I think it secures him in the first round.  But if his athletic skills end up pedstrian, he might go in the 2nd.  I feel the same way about Ridder. I think if he has an off the charts combine he sneaks into the first, if its not as big of a combine as some expect from him, I think it secures him in the 2nd.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Andre The Giant]

Trubisky plays with no heart.  I don't buy the "he only stunk in Nagy's offense" opinion.  People said the same thing about Darnold in Gase's offense before the Panthers traded for him.  These coaches all have a general idea what they're doing.

 

Taylor plays with way more heart and passion than Mitch.  The Players would figure that out too.  If Rivera settles on Trubisky it would be very disappointing to this fan.

[Skinsinparadise]

Kiper's new mock, the QBs in it

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2022/insider/story/_/id/33377578/nfl-mock-draft-2022-mel-kiper-predictions-all-32-first-round-picks-two-trade-projections-new-no-1

 

11. Washington Commanders

Kenny Pickett, QB, Pitt

Washington's defense took a step back in 2021, but it has a lot of talent invested on that side of the ball. That's why I see the Commanders as the team most likely to target a quarterback in Round 1. Taylor Heinicke hasn't shown that he can be a consistent, NFL-level starter; Pickett could be an upgrade.

This is still a little high for a quarterback based on my Big Board -- I have Pickett and Malik Willis at Nos. 19 and 20, respectively -- but the 24-year-old Pickett is ready to play in the NFL right now. I don't think he'll have to have the developmental time that Willis will need. Ron Rivera's team could compete in the NFC East with competent quarterback play and Pickett could give them a chance. He's going to be under the microscope at the combine, as we still don't have an official hand size for him. He's expected to have below 9-inch hands, which has been one of the benchmarks for quarterbacks. I'm curious to hear how he does in interviews with teams as well.

 

20. Pittsburgh Steelers

Malik Willis, QB, Liberty

Here's a nice landing spot for Willis, whom I've mentioned will need some time to adjust to the speed of the NFL. He didn't have a ton of talent around him at Liberty and he was sacked an FBS-high 51 times last season. He shouldn't be asked to play in Week 1 in September. If he goes to Pittsburgh, he'll compete with Mason Rudolph and Dwayne Haskins (and potentially another short-term veteran) and won't be pressured to play immediately, though the Steelers aren't going to rebuild in the post-Ben Roethlisberger era.

Willis is the most talented quarterback in this class, in my opinion, but he can be erratic with his accuracy. He has all of the tools to be successful, but he'll need to be coached hard. If the Steelers don't go with a signal-caller here, keep an eye out for offensive line.

 

32. Detroit Lions (via LAR)

Matt Corral, QB, Ole Miss

Let's end this mock draft with another quarterback, because I'm not convinced Jared Goff will be Detroit's long-term signal-caller. Corral could be, though, and in this scenario he could get time to learn behind Goff in 2022, when the Lions almost certainly won't be contending in the NFC North. Yes, they have several needs, but if they can get a quarterback with a fifth-year option, they could continue the positive momentum of their rebuild.

Corral took a step forward in 2021, throwing 20 touchdown passes and just five picks. He's a dual-threat quarterback who can beat teams with his legs, but he ran an RPO-centric offense at Ole Miss, and he's going to need to learn how to adapt in the NFL. He can spin the football, though. Corral won't work out for NFL teams at the combine, which means all eyes will be on his pro day in late March.

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Seriously? It's franchise GQ or bust give up?

Yup. Welcome to the NFL in 2022. If you wan want you franchise to consistently be in the hunt its the only way. You might get a lucky one off chance with an average guy but you cant do it consistently. 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Trubisky will ensure a top 10 pick next season.

Trubs plus the roster we have and an easier schedule will put us clearly in the middle of the first round. Far away from the elite guys in 2023.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

Trubs plus the roster we have and an easier schedule will put us clearly in the middle of the first round. Far away from the elite guys in 2023.

 

You quoted the part of my post that referred to what Sheehan's producer said as to the top 10 pick.  My own actual point in that same post you quoted disagreed with him.

 

I don't think they are picking top 5 or even top 10 no matter who they sign.  They don't have a bottom rung roster. 

[HigSkin]

I just think it's way too early to be freaking out about any of these guys until after the Combine when a lot of stuff goes down.

 

There must be something, intrigue or whatever to Trubisky if teams like even the Steelers him on their interest list.

 

FWIW - Mel Kiper on Get Up right now and he said he brought up hand size to GM's, scouts, etc and not one said it was a significant issue.

 

Orlovsky has us picking up Mitch

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by HigSkin

[Warhead36]

Can't believe anyone would want Bridgewater. He stinks. He's basically Heinicke 2.0 but at least Heinicke has been with us the last couple of years(devil you know and all that). 

 

Trubisky I can justify to some extent because at least he does have some physical tools and perhaps after a year in Buffalo he's been rebooted so to speak. Ditto Mariotta. You're still kinda shooting for the moon with those guys. 

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

If Ron turns us into a perpetual. 500 team who occasionally makes noise in the playoffs, but doesn't draft top 10, and our culture has changed, that's a win to build on.

Unfortunately this is the worst possible place a franchise can be in. Its essentially where we have been for the past 20 years if you go back and look at draft. 

 

The draft positions over the last 20 years before trades 15 18 13 5 9 22 6 21 13 4 10 6 22 2(Shanny actively submarining the team on his way out) 5 21 17 13 15 2(Bruce Allens roster management finally caught up) 19

 

As you can see a ton of middling results. They have finished in the middle 3rd 50% of the last 20 years. 

[HigSkin]

 

 

NFL First QB Selected Odds

• Kenny Pickett +120
• Malik Willis +150
• Sam Howell +650
• Matt Corral +1000
• Desmond Ridder +3000

Kenny Pickett (+120) (Bet $100 to win $120)

Right now, Kenny Pickett is the favorite. But there are some reports about scouts not liking his hands or whatever. This was the same stuff that Joe Burrow heard before he was drafted and he's turned out just fine.

The Pittsburgh Steelers would likely love to get their hands on Pickett. That would keep Pickett in a familiar area and would also fill a major need for the Steelers with Ben Roethlisberger retiring. However, the Steelers don't draft until pick 20 and there are plenty of other teams that could be looking for a quarterback before them. The Houston Texans have to be looking at a quarterback at pick three, but if not there, the Washington Commanders could be next in line at pick 11. But you would think that the Commanders would be a better fit for the next guy on this list.

 

[Redskins 2021]

I can't imagine them rebranding with Trubisky. Do you think we will sign right at start of Free agency or wait. It sounds like alot of teams like him.

 

Pitt 

Ind

Us 

nyg

No

 

I am still hoping they have something cooking at qb no one knows about but it does not look good. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, DWinzit said:

 

The last time we had a quality starter was 2020 when we were 5-1 before a devastating injury. 5-1 is nowhere? 

 

 

We were 6-3 when Alex Smith went down in 2018, and we won most games by the skin of our teeth and weren't putting up many points. Our offense was pretty anemic. So no, it's not "nowhere" but I don't think it's even remotely possible that we would have actually done anything of note that season.

 

If we got some lucky bounces and managed to win a few more close games we might have snuck into the playoffs as a wildcard but we would have been eliminated pretty quickly most likely.

[Koolblue13]

This is the only big splash QB I'd move on.

 

 

[DJHJR86]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/01/deshaun-watsons-personal-quarterback-coach-criticizes-houstons-receivers-from-2020/

 

More red flags.  No thank you.

[Skinsinparadise]

Bullock, I agree with just about everything he said, he also highlighted the same things I like an don't like about him more or less, so of course I find his takes spot on. 😀

 

 

[Redskins 2021]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bullock, I agree with just about everything he said, he also highlighted the same things I like an don't like about him more or less, so of course I find his takes spot on. 😀

 

 

 He does fit the offense. He has 30 and 20 overall record. He is the best fit of the Fa Qb. We may win two more games with him.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Die Hard]

3 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

No, you did that. Most people did not.

 

So just because you were wrong based on an individual.... doesn't mean the argument isn't legitimate in other instances.

[Andre The Giant]

Just now, Die Hard said:

 

No, you did that. Most people did not.

 

So just because you were wrong based on an individual.... doesn't mean the argument isn't legitimate in other instances.

 

All due respect man, you don't know my personal opinion on Darnold.  I'm reposting some other guys tweet that I happen to agree with.  I didn't want Darnold, because I think all NFL Head Coaches get the basics right and it's the Players that make the difference.  Gase was a great coach when he had Peyton Manning, etc...  Nagy would be a great coach with Tom Brady, etc.  There's no doubt that coaching makes a difference in the NFL.  But being part of a franchise quarterback's success can make a number of NFL careers.

 

I don't want Trubisky because he's had a lot of playing time, and I think he plays soft.  I felt the same about Darnold last year.  I'm saying that as an organization we shouldn't make the same mistake the Panthers did.