The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

The problem I have is with the so called bridge QBs in that none of them make any senses for the team. Ron has said if you draft someone in either the 1st or the 2nd round these days you have to start them unlike back in the days. 

 

So if you are going to do that then you just roll with Rookie, TH and Allen. 

 

I don't think they can afford to take that chance. There's always a possibility that we can't get our guy in the draft, or if we do he proves to really need more time to adjust ala Lance. So not getting some sort of potential bridge guy before the draft would be a bit foolish.

 

Heinicke isn't a starter and it's clear the team thinks the same. So they'll almost certainly bring in someone who can be a potentially legit bridge starter for a season if need be.

[zCommander]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think they can afford to take that chance. There's always a possibility that we can't get our guy in the draft, or if we do he proves to really need more time to adjust ala Lance. So not getting some sort of potential bridge guy before the draft would be a bit foolish.

 

Heinicke isn't a starter and it's clear the team thinks the same. So they'll almost certainly bring in someone who can be a potentially legit bridge starter for a season if need be.

 

If that is the case and Fitz is healthy again then you go that route instead. 

[Koolblue13]

Remember when the Texans were getting blown out and finally scored a TD and Watson was doing some dramatic celebration, despite losing and he got trolled?

 

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, VaK9Trainer said:

 

That's CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!  NO WAY do you pay that much!!! 

Yeah I was wasn’t necessarily advocating trading that much away, however it may cost someone that much IF Wilson is moved on. Still highly unlikely.

 

A team that trades for him will do so on the basis you are getting 5 years out of him I would say. So you would start to find/add his successor in year 4. Fits in with the draft picks you have given up in the first place to get him.

[cakmoney61]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Which is fine, as long as we also draft one in the 1st round. But if we go into the season with Trubisky or Mariota as our starter, without a rookie...I think home game fan attendance will drop to about 500 people per game probably.

If Washington's first option at QB is gone by pick #11, I predict they will not draft a QB until the second round (whoever is left to choose from).  Their first-round pick will be a WR or a CB.

 

They could also trade back and accumulate more picks and get a QB later in the first round.  

 

However it turns out, I don't believe they will be drafting a QB at #11.  They cannot draft a QB with that pick hoping that he works out if they truly don't believe in him.  They will draft a player at another position that they do believe in.  Some very talented players will be available at pick #11.

[Est.1974]

Damn I hope all of the FO personnel Exec’s from around the league are rolling up to the combine soon with a clear view to start moving/trading some of these QBs 

[London Kev]

I'm not sure if this proves or disproves anyone's point about QB salaries. I just like numbers so I thought that I would share.

Courtesy of Spotrac.

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by London Kev

[DWinzit]

We talk mostly about Trubisky and Mariota as the bridge target. Based on Keim, sounds like he is leaning to Trubisky or Bridgewater with no mention of Mariota. I definitely likes all the positives he brought up about Mitch, his terrible relations with Nagy and how coaches and players likes him both in Chicago and Buffalo (including Leno and Castillo). 

 

I really liked him saying the team has spoken with all teams about QB's. Leave no stone unturned!

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

None of those sound especially likely to me. IMO it's super unlikely that Rodgers or Wilson are going to actually get traded, but even if that happens and they do trade them, they're probably going to do it with a team that can send them at least a serviceable QB in return.

 

Not sure about Packers wanting a QB in return but that seems the case with Seattle.  I think this biggest hurdle is being an NFC team.  Reporters for both teams, and Russini doubled down on this for Rodgers, said if traded they prefer it to the AFC.

28 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

We talk mostly about Trubisky and Mariota as the bridge target. Based on Keim, sounds like he is leaning to Trubisky or Bridgewater with no mention of Mariota. I definitely likes all the positives he brought up about Mitch, his terrible relations with Nagy and how coaches and players likes him both in Chicago and Buffalo (including Leno and Castillo). 

 

I really liked him saying the team has spoken with all teams about QB's. Leave no stone unturned!

 

Don't recall Keim mentioing Bridgewater unless I am forgetting?  Standig mentioned it once not as something he heard but thrrew out that Hurney acquired him once.

 

Once in awhile, they mention Mariota if I recall tha was Sting as opposed to Keim but not sure but I recall his name mentioned by one of them.  Trubisky is the one that's mentioned the most for sure among FAs.  But I've yet to hear they've heard he's their top FA target but he's the dude certainly mentioned the most.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

55 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

We talk mostly about Trubisky and Mariota as the bridge target. Based on Keim, sounds like he is leaning to Trubisky or Bridgewater with no mention of Mariota. I definitely likes all the positives he brought up about Mitch, his terrible relations with Nagy and how coaches and players likes him both in Chicago and Buffalo (including Leno and Castillo). 

 

I really liked him saying the team has spoken with all teams about QB's. Leave no stone unturned!

Struggling to post a proper link, but think I’ve mentioned this before about Bridgewater...

According to Broncos insider Benjamin Allbright, Bridgewater is expected to demand $25 million annually on a long-term deal once NFL free agency opens. The quarterback also doesn’t expect Denver to be willing to dole out that type of cash.

 

edit - I think it worked 

1 hour ago, London Kev said:

not sure if this proves or disproves anyone's point about QB salaries. I just like numbers so I thought that I would share.

Courtesy of Spotrac.

Texans need to shift Watson. Not sure people appreciate that they are backed into a corner somewhat with him. Said yesterday, by the 20th March Watson is owed 72mil in fully guaranteed money over the next 18 months from whichever team owns his rights/contract. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Est.1974

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

The Ram QB position paid out 45 plus million with contracts of Goff and Stafford on the books; I get that. This was only able to happen by Stafford agreeing to not require an extension and ride out two seasons at 10% of the cap. 

 

I know you get that.  I've made the point to you multiple times.  Yet, you still made the case that you can't win with major money alllocated to the QB spot where you go with a post about see look at the last few SB winners even though one of those examples actually big time defeats your point but instead you presented in a way to help your point by ignoring the real numbers for the Rams.   Even though you know that the Rams stats don't actually help your point.

 

My other issue is you hang on the SB for judging.  Even though as you even said, tough to win a SB for anyone so why are we judging purely based on that?  Brady has dominated the SB.  He's a unicorn as opposed to a trend setter as you like to say he is becoming as for other players likewise leaving major money on the table.    

 

I'd put money that as Mahomes contracts skyrockets. This year 36 million, next 44, next 46 -- we will be watching him in the playoffs still.   Being a perennial playoff team is actually pretty cool.   6 out of 11 of the top cap teams for QBs were in the playoffs, the ones that missed were close, exception being Atlanta who wasn't bad this season and had a staggered contract, and the Texans whose player didn't start and Wilson/Seattle who got hurt.  9 out of the top 15 in the playoffs. One of the teams who were in bottom of QB cap allocation made the playoffs.  The Eagles.   And I do think they were that good.  Had an easy as heck schedule this season.

 

Joel Corry who knows his way around the cap, ex-agent, and considers himself a cap specialist, is on the radio all the time to explain cap situations often hits two points that you don't seem to factor in your points.

 

A.  Where the cap is going is very relevant.  Today's 20 million is tomorrow's 30.   So teams that might look dumb to fans in the moment as for the overall contract won't look so dumb once the cap meets the salary.

 

B.  Some contracts are structured in ways on purpose so you experince the pleasure before the pain.  Actually most big contracts are.  Take Matt Ryan's contract as an example.  18 million then 16 million, 19, 27, 49, 44.

 

Now that's not the player making Brady like sacrifices as you like to claim in other cases because its a longish contract and the initial cap hit isn't too bad.  It's more about just how common contracts works in big money contracts, its often staggered.  So Ryan's contract now looks ridiculous but it didn't initially.  The idea behind it is to hope the cap keeps adjusting up and heck even if it doesn't you take the painless years first and take the pain later. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-the-definitive-super-bowl-2022-tale-of-the-financial-tape-for-bengals-vs-rams/#:~:text=The Rams have %2444.7 million,roster flexibility it can provide.

The Rams have $44.7 million of the cap devoted to quarterback between Goff's dead money and Stafford's actual cap number.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Trubisky is the one that's mentioned the most for sure among FAs. 

I really don’t what Trubisky, I think the only way I would stomach that move would be if we bagged a top LB and FS in free agency, along with Trubisky, and then hit the draft still having picks in rounds 1-4 which in turn we used to get another QB, stud WR, plus workhouse RB to add to our weapons. Maybe even TE. Find depth OL and DB.

edit- and we extend Terry Mc and maybe Payne.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Est.1974

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I really don’t what Trubisky, I think the only way I would stomach that move would be if we bagged a top LB and FS in free agency, along with Trubisky, and then hit the draft still having picks in rounds 1-4 which in turn we used to get another QB, stud WR, plus workhouse RB to add to our weapons. Maybe even TE. Find depth OL and DB.

edit- and we extend Terry Mc and maybe Payne.

 

Trubisky isn't IMO a good QB.  He is probably though a half a peg better than Heinicke.  If its him, they have to take a QB in this draft and unless that QB is Willis, I think that young QB has a shot to beat Trubisky in camp.  Jay Gruden seems to think Heinicke would beat Trubisky in camp -- i'd be surprised but its not a ridiculous thought.  I think it would be an interesting camp if it were something like Pickett, Trubisky, Heinicke.  While I am not a big Pickett guy, I'd bet on him winning that competition.   But hopefully that's not the sceanrio.

 

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Don't recall Keim mentioing Bridgewater unless I am forgetting?  Standig mentioned it once not as something he heard but thrrew out that Hurney acquired him once.

 

Once in awhile, they mention Mariota if I recall tha was Sting as opposed to Keim but not sure but I recall his name mentioned by one of them.  Trubisky is the one that's mentioned the most for sure among FAs.  But I've yet to hear they've heard he's their top FA target but he's the dude certainly mentioned the most.

It was brought up early in the top link on the combine

 

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/AMPM7263617903?selected=AMPM9745266496

 

I think the most desperate QB starved team will be reaching high for Pickett. If that is Washington, they would need to move up from 11. He is not worth that IMO

 

16 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Struggling to post a proper link, but think I’ve mentioned this before about Bridgewater...

According to Broncos insider Benjamin Allbright, Bridgewater is expected to demand $25 million annually on a long-term deal once NFL free agency opens. The quarterback also doesn’t expect Denver to be willing to dole out that type of cash.

 

Yikes, $25 mill. I can't see that at all. He is off the list if that is the case...and the team offering that needs to checked

Edited February 28, 2022 by DWinzit

[DJHJR86]

Of the potential available quarterbacks, my personal rankings for who I would target:

 

1. Wentz

2. Tannehill

3. Winston

4. Mariota

5. Trubisky

6. Dalton

7. Bridgewater

8. Fitzpatrick

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think it would be an interesting camp if it were something like Pickett, Trubisky, Heinicke.  While I am not a big Pickett guy, I'd bet on him winning that competition.   But hopefully that's not the sceanrio.

 

I could live with this as long as there is no actual shot of Trubisky ever starting a game for this team.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

Of the potential available quarterbacks, my personal rankings for who I would target:

 

1. Wentz

2. Tannehill

3. Winston

4. Mariota

5. Trubisky

6. Dalton

7. Bridgewater

8. Fitzpatrick

 

 

 

I saw the idea that the Titans might shop Tannehill with the thought of Rodgers buying property in Tennessee but otherwise I don't recall seeing much of the Titans shopping him.

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Trubisky isn't IMO a good QB.  He is probably though a half a peg better than Heinicke.  If its him, they have to take a QB in this draft and unless that QB is Willis, I think that young QB has a shot to beat Trubisky in camp.  Jay Gruden seems to think Heinicke would beat Trubisky in camp -- i'd be surprised but its not a ridiculous thought.  I think it would be an interesting camp if it were something like Pickett, Trubisky, Heinicke.  While I am not a big Pickett guy, I'd bet on him winning that competition.   But hopefully that's not the sceanrio.

 

 

 

 

Agree on Trubisky and that move requiring a rookie QB move also. Get the feeling Rivera likes him though, based on the trade deadline interest. I would personally risk Wentz over him but that is a largely unpopular opinion 

Got to think the first domino falls in the coming days.......

 

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

1. Wentz

2. Tannehill

Yep I like those options.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

It was brought up early in the top link on the combine

 

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/AMPM7263617903?selected=AMPM9745266496

 

 

 

Oh, its on today's show.  Cool, thanks.  I haven't listened to it yet but will

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I saw the idea that the Titans might shop Tannehill with the thought of Rodgers buying property in Tennessee but otherwise I don't recall seeing much of the Titans shopping him.

Titans need to be careful they don’t sit on what they have, when it clearly is not good enough to get them passed the competition in their conference. That would be rough on Tannehill though, but TENN aren’t getting to a SB with him at the helm and the teams they need to get passed in the process.

[Chump Bailey]

Wentz and Bridgewater are my least palatable options and that's being kind. 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Chump Bailey said:

Wentz and Bridgewater are my least palatable options and that's being kind. 

This place is going to be interesting when we do finally make a move. Even getting a top one is going to come at a cost which will make most on here want to vomit...

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

This place is going to be interesting when we do finally make a move. Even getting a top one is going to come at a cost which will make most on here want to vomit...

 

The more realistic options are not that good any way you slice it but we must do something. I really dislike Wentz because of his drama. Frank Reich is one of the best coaches out there and it seems like he is weary of Wentz. Wentz is just a huge red flag for me and TB is not anywhere close to being worth the money he wants IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

Thanks @DWinzit for cuing me up to the new Keim podcast.  The first segment I listened to, I'll hit the rest soon

 

A.  They actually have shot for Rodgers but GB wants to trade to the AFC but they've tried.

 

B. Deshaun Watson is a person of interest for them

 

C.  They contacted every team in the NFL about QBs -- they are doing an exhaustive search

 

D.  They aren't going all in on Jimmy G, they got some concerns, the price would have to be right.  No big contract.  No major draft capital expended

 

E.  FA -- interest in Trubisky and Bridgwater.  Trubisky likely won't be annoited to be the starter at the next team.  But teams think maybe he can be the dude if they showcase his athleticism more -- go heavy RPO and they like that he's cheap.  He thinks he or Bridgewater would be both around 7 million a year.  Likely paired with a rookie from the first three rounds, seems to be highlighting 2nd or 3rd round. 

 

This is their worst case scenario, not their top choice.   Keim hears mixed things about Trubisky around the league, some say maybe, some say he's a career backup.

 

F.  Keim is hearing Seattle doesn't want to trade Wilson.  On the off chance they traded him, they'd want a QB in return who they like.

 

G.  He thinks if Pickett is at 11, they take him.  If not they trade down and take a Qb in the 2nd round

 

Outside of some noise about Willis, its not hard to pick up that Pickett is the dude they like the most in the draft.  Not that he's my #1 but I am ok with that, my top 4 are pretty close to each other.  So I got no beef for someone who favors one over the other. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

Not sure how accurate this is but interesting if true...

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Not sure how accurate this is but interesting if true...

 

 

 

That dude makes things up.  He did it last year, too