A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[TD_washingtonredskins]

34 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

I honestly didn’t know there were still that many squads left.  I thought the number was far fewer...although I will say I expect all the other owners are now taking a very hard look at what happened here.  If they aren’t they better be.  I would expect in the years to come more cheerleading programs are “paused” for “review”
 

I work in a field that carries with it a lot of liability.  Whenever there is a lawsuit and/or settlement, whatever caused that to happen gets thoroughly reviewed. Policies and/or procedures are totally revamped and updated.  All that makes sense as to why the program has been stalled now.  The rebranding also gives them another reason, but any fool can see that isn’t the real reason.  As for Jason Wright’s explanation, I don’t know what people really expect.  The guy isn’t going to provide an itemized list of why they are pausing the program, and how it relates to the settlements nor does he have to.  
 

I get people strongly dislike Snyder, but some of us have been saying from the start this is not going to cause him to lose the team.  It’s just not.
 

Recommendations are going to be made and the team will follow them to a tee.  Of course, Snyder cannot ban women from working at the park nor should he (Federal law rightly forbids this), but he can decide what jobs he created that they can hold. Litigation always carries with it unintended consequences.

 

What happened here? What happened here was that this specific owner directed the nude videos of 30+ cheerleaders. I don't think too many other NFL organizations need to pause their cheerleading program to prevent that from happening. Most organizations have a culture that discourages grown men from acting like pledges in a fraternity. 

 

To your point about policies/procedures/etc. - that's fine and of course the team is able to do what they'd like. All I'm saying is that this comes across as the victims of these acts being the ones to suffer most. Who will miss the cheerleading program more than cheerleaders? 

[Spearfeather]

11 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

What happened here? What happened here was that this specific owner directed the nude videos of 30+ cheerleaders. 

 

What exactly do you mean by " directed " ?

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Spearfeather

[Commander PK]

7 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

What happened here? What happened here was that this specific owner directed the nude videos of 30+ cheerleaders. I don't think too many other NFL organizations need to pause their cheerleading program to prevent that from happening. Most organizations have a culture that discourages grown men from acting like pledges in a fraternity.

Well, that has been alleged, but as far as I know not proven.  Maybe Snyder was directly involved, maybe he was not.  We will never know now that the settlements have been made.    
 

I guarantee you that these kind of things happen or are ripe to happen with some of the other NFL teams.  There is a reason  just about every job you take includes some training regarding workplace discrimination and Sexual Harassment.  
 

As for your last paragraph, yes I agree, and feel bad for the current cheerleaders while understanding that this move absolutely makes sense from a business standpoint.  Hopefully, once the dust settles the program can continue in some fashion.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

 

2 hours ago, Spearfeather said:

 

What exactly do you mean by " directed " ?

 

 

 

The people who have come forward have alleged that the owner ordered that those outtakes were stitched together into the "good bits" highlight reel that was given to the Washington Post. That's what I mean by it...however (see below). 

 

1 hour ago, Painkiller said:

Well, that has been alleged, but as far as I know not proven.  Maybe Snyder was directly involved, maybe he was not.  We will never know now that the settlements have been made.    
 

I guarantee you that these kind of things happen or are ripe to happen with some of the other NFL teams.  There is a reason  just about every job you take includes some training regarding workplace discrimination and Sexual Harassment.  
 

As for your last paragraph, yes I agree, and feel bad for the current cheerleaders while understanding that this move absolutely makes sense from a business standpoint.  Hopefully, once the dust settles the program can continue in some fashion.

 

...I concede that we don't know for sure that Dan Snyder asked for those outtakes. But I find it difficult to imagine someone like Larry Michael incriminating a whole bunch of people and jeopardizing the organization on a hunch that the owner might want those done. 

 

As for the settlements impacting our eventual knowledge of who asked for what, I don't agree. The settlements were reached with cheerleaders. It's not like they knew this was happening so they were never going to be the ones who shed light on the origin of the tapes. They were just the victims. The employees who worked in the media department at the time are the ones who would know. 

 

 

[Commander PK]

10 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

...I concede that we don't know for sure that Dan Snyder asked for those outtakes. But I find it difficult to imagine someone like Larry Michael incriminating a whole bunch of people and jeopardizing the organization on a hunch that the owner might want those done. 

 

As for the settlements impacting our eventual knowledge of who asked for what, I don't agree. The settlements were reached with cheerleaders. It's not like they knew this was happening so they were never going to be the ones who shed light on the origin of the tapes. They were just the victims. The employees who worked in the media department at the time are the ones who would know.

 

You may or may not be surprised what people are capable of doing when their neck is on the block.  I have seen some scorched earth examples in my career when the heat was turned up on people.  Larry was incriminated also in these allegations, but they are just that...allegations.  I doubt anybody is going to want to talk about his now in public.  I'm sure there are gag orders with any current employees who know details, and former employees would stand to be sued if they start "telling the real truth" in public.  The court of public opinion will continue to press the issue, especially for those fans who are clinging to hope beyond hope that something emerges that forces the league to get rid of Snyder.  I just don't see it happening.    

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

 

You may or may not be surprised what people are capable of doing when their neck is on the block.  I have seen some scorched earth examples in my career when the heat was turned up on people.  Larry was incriminated also in these allegations, but they are just that...allegations.  I doubt anybody is going to want to talk about his now in public.  I'm sure there are gag orders with any current employees who know details, and former employees would stand to be sued if they start "telling the real truth" in public.  The court of public opinion will continue to press the issue, especially for those fans who are clinging to hope beyond hope that something emerges that forces the league to get rid of Snyder.  I just don't see it happening.    

I hear you, but again I think we're kind of talking past one another here. 

 

There's what's provable and incriminating (which I will agree we very likely won't get) and there's what almost certainly happened (which is what we can piece together with context and the information we do have). 

 

I don't think I'm alone in believing that these videos were produced for the owner at the request of the owner. 

[Commander PK]

14 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I don't think I'm alone in believing that these videos were produced for the owner at the request of the owner. 

I don’t think you are either, and for all we know you could be right.  As far as what it means in the big picture.  Very little now.  
 

Nothing earth moving is going to happen as a result of this investigation.  I can read between the lines.  Dan Snyder and his posterity are going to own this team for decades unless he is caught red-handed breaking the law or there is smoking gun evidence of some unforgivable offense in the eyes of the league.  

 

My personal opinion is we are ALL better off if it’s that way, for reasons not fit for this forum. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

13 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

I don’t think you are either, and for all we know you could be right.  As far as what it means in the big picture.  Very little now.  
 

Nothing earth moving is going to happen as a result of this investigation.  I can read between the lines.  Dan Snyder and his posterity are going to own this team for decades unless he is caught red-handed breaking the law or there is smoking gun evidence of some unforgivable offense in the eyes of the league.  

 

My personal opinion is we are ALL better off if it’s that way, for reasons not fit for this forum. 

I've moved on from him being removed as well...I'm simply just talking about what has happened and how unfortunate it is that everyone but the owner is being punished for it. 

[Spearfeather]

40 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

 

The people who have come forward have alleged that the owner ordered that those outtakes were stitched together into the "good bits" highlight reel that was given to the Washington Post. That's what I mean by it...however (see below). 

 

 

...I concede that we don't know for sure that Dan Snyder asked for those outtakes. But I find it difficult to imagine someone like Larry Michael incriminating a whole bunch of people and jeopardizing the organization on a hunch that the owner might want those done. 

 

 

 

 

I don't find it difficult at all to imagine someone like Larry Michael saying something like that and throwing Snyder's name in, in an effort to make sure it gets done, and thinking since he asked for it, he'd be one of the first to see it. 

Some of Snyder's favorite songs being the soundtrack to the video doesn't really incriminate Snyder either as I'm sure there were numerous people in the building that knew his taste in music.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

19 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

I don't find it difficult at all to imagine someone like Larry Michael saying something like that and throwing Snyder's name in, in an effort to make sure it gets done, and thinking since he asked for it, he'd be one of the first to see it. 

Some of Snyder's favorite songs being the soundtrack to the video doesn't really incriminate Snyder either as I'm sure there were numerous people in the building that knew his taste in music.

All fair points and I'd agree none of what I said would hold up in a court of law. But what you're doing feels very much like you're trying to find a possible series of events that take him off the hook rather than objectively looking at the circumstantial evidence. 

 

The most likely explanation for Snyder's name coming up and the video having Snyder's favorite songs are that he asked for or knew about the tape. That's not say it's possible he didn't, but that's the MOST LIKELY explanation. 

 

Edit: Sure my DNA and my car's tire tracks were at the scene of the murder someone claimed they saw me commit, but how hard would it be for someone with a similar car to leave those tracks and plant my DNA? 

Edited February 16, 2021 by TD_washingtonredskins

[Commander PK]

17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I've moved on from him being removed as well...I'm simply just talking about what has happened and how unfortunate it is that everyone but the owner is being punished for it. 

Oh, make no mistake.  He’s being punished for it.  He just won’t lose the team over it.  If nothing else, maybe he will largely stick to writing checks now and then enjoying the outcomes the people he put in place generate.  You know, like any good owner should.  Stay out of decisions you don’t need to be or shouldn’t be involved in.  

 

In my opinion one of his biggest faults (from the outside looking in) is that he thinks he knows more than he actually does about how to run a football team.  All he has to do is get out of his own way and he can be a successful owner.  There is still plenty of time for him to have a more positive than negative public image when his time is done.  10 solid years of good decisions and winning more often than not on the field can turn his ship around.  

[Spearfeather]

3 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

All fair points and I'd agree none of what I said would hold up in a court of law. But what you're doing feels very much like you're trying to find a possible series of events that take him off the hook rather than objectively looking at the circumstantial evidence. 

 

 

 

If he ordered the videos, he should suffer the consequences. And if he didn't, it shouldn't be said that he did.

 

I think that's the objective way to look at it.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Spearfeather

[TD_washingtonredskins]

8 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

Oh, make no mistake.  He’s being punished for it.  He just won’t lose the team over it.  If nothing else, maybe he will largely stick to writing checks now and then enjoying the outcomes the people he put in place generate.  You know, like any good owner should.  Stay out of decisions you don’t need to be or shouldn’t be involved in.  

 

In my opinion one of his biggest faults (from the outside looking in) is that he thinks he knows more than he actually does about how to run a football team.  All he has to do is get out of his own way and he can be a successful owner.  There is still plenty of time for him to have a more positive than negative public image when his time is done.  10 solid years of good decisions and winning more often than not on the field can turn his ship around.  

 

That's his biggest fault when it comes to successfully running a football organization. But it's becoming more and more likely that he has far bigger issues with his behavior. 

8 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

If he ordered the videos, he should suffer the consequences. And he didn't, it shouldn't be said that he did.

 

I think that's the objective way to look at it.

That's fair. If he truly had no idea they existed then I would agree he shouldn't face the consequences above and beyond the stigma of running an organization with a bad culture. 

 

Again, I'm not saying that he should lose the team just because I think the most likely explanation is that he ordered or knew about them. I'm simply saying that's the most likely explanation. He should only lose the team if they can prove it. 

[HigSkin]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Spearfeather said:

I don't find it difficult at all to imagine someone like Larry Michael saying something like that and throwing Snyder's name in, in an effort to make sure it gets done, and thinking since he asked for it, he'd be one of the first to see it. 

Some of Snyder's favorite songs being the soundtrack to the video doesn't really incriminate Snyder either as I'm sure there were numerous people in the building that knew his taste in music.

I don't find it difficult that Snyder would direct someone like Larry Michael to do his dirty work for him.  I also find it strange that it would be some covert operation to put Snyder's favorite songs on it, to make it look like the request came from him vs. you know, the request actually coming from him.

 

The fact of the matter is we'll never know what really happened, but that defense of the allegations against Snyder is rather weak.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't find it difficult that Snyder would direct someone like Larry Michael to do his dirty work for him.  I also find it strange that it would be some covert operation to put Snyder's favorite songs on it, to make it look like the request came from him vs. you know, the request actually coming from him.

 

The fact of the matter is we'll never know what really happened, but that defense of the allegations against Snyder is rather weak.

 

Good post...sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. I know that many feel compelled to find a way for him to be off the hook so they don't have to reconcile rooting for his team. I did it plenty of times over the past two decades. But if you take a step back and realize that you have to connect a bunch of yarn for this to be on someone other than Snyder, it's easier just to admit that he PROBABLY directed or had knowledge of these tapes. 

[Spearfeather]

17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't find it difficult that Snyder would direct someone like Larry Michael to do his dirty work for him.  I also find it strange that it would be some covert operation to put Snyder's favorite songs on it, to make it look like the request came from him vs. you know, the request actually coming from him.

 

The fact of the matter is we'll never know what really happened, but that defense of the allegations against Snyder is rather weak.

 

What's weak is you thinking I was implying that the songs were put on there in an attempt to sabotage Snyder.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

58 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

What's weak is you thinking I was implying that the songs were put on there in an attempt to sabotage Snyder.

Please, do tell.

 

What would be the point of people that know Snyder’s musical tastes, putting his favorite songs on the videos?  Other than to do it as a means to either sabotage or please Dan?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Please, do tell.

 

What would be the point of people that know Snyder’s musical tastes, putting his favorite songs on the videos?  Other than to do it as a means to either sabotage or please Dan?

Precisely...again, this isn't that hard! 

 

A video of cheerleaders has emerged set to Snyder's favorite music and former employees have said that it was created at his request. Does that mean he should be thrown in jail? Of course not. But is it fair to assume he likely had something to do with it? Absolutely!

[Spearfeather]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Please, do tell.

 

What would be the point of people that know Snyder’s musical tastes, putting his favorite songs on the videos?  Other than to do it as a means to either sabotage or please Dan?

 

Because they could think they are pleasing Snyder when they're really not, because Snyder never ordered it, nor did he ever see it

 

There would be no " sabotage " or " pleasing of Snyder ".

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

14 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

Because they could think they are pleasing Snyder when they're really not, because Snyder never ordered it, nor did he ever see it

 

There would be no " sabotage " or " pleasing of Snyder ".

Fair enough.

 

I guess that would be just another coincidence in a very long line of coincidences where something awful attached to Snyder, actually had nothing to do with him.

[Spearfeather]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Fair enough.

 

I guess that would be just another coincidence in a very long line of coincidences where something awful attached to Snyder, actually had nothing to do with him.

 

It doesn't have to be all or none.

[dyst]

Larry Michael got off pretty easy huh. Seems like most of these guys did.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

18 minutes ago, dyst said:

Larry Michael got off pretty easy huh. Seems like most of these guys did.

 

Way too easy...so far, anyway.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, Spearfeather said:

 

It doesn't have to be all or none.

Seems like you're pushing back just for the sake of pushing back. 

 

It's such a small likelihood that Larry Michael spearheaded some surprise cheerleader video that spans several years without any permission or direction from Snyder. But if you want to cling that possibility, I guess that's your right.