Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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20 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

What a dumb way to look at it, as if he's letting criminals walk free to harm others so he can get what he wants. Doctors misdiagnose things, we don't generally criminalize that because it is human error. That doesn't mean they are dangerous to his teammates, or that he hates them (as he's made clear). He's just lost faith in the organization and wants to start a new chapter after an eye-opening health scare. His priorities have been re-aligned. And when he made that clear to the team Bruce showed his true colors. 

 

Stop projecting your own bull**** onto the situation just to be contrary. The dude had a giant ice cream scoop sized disk of his skull removed and probably has pictures of his own skull and brain on his phone to remind him of his mortality. It's not a hole in his story that he doesn't want the doctors who messed up fired and ruined. His beef is higher up with the organization that he feels he gave a lot for and played hurt a lot for. 

 

And those doctors are the reason he had to have that chunk of his skull removed.  He should want their licenses to practice medicine.  The only thing the people higher up in the organization have to do with that is that they're the reason he went to those doctors

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58 minutes ago, London Kev said:

 

Nothing makes me think that Bruce is not acting like he used to, and that was the main point of my post.

 

Having an issue with Trent's version of events, in no way indicates an affinity with the front office, and vice versa.

 

Why this part in bold seems to continually be lost on people baffles me.

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4 hours ago, KDawg said:

@Califan007 man... as usual you always bring intelligent debate to a conversation. But I just can’t help but think you’re looking at the opposite as to what most of us are.

 

Thats not to discredit your point. Trent and others health is more important than any other aspect.

 

But the he said/they said stuff where there is needless bickering isn’t our focus. 
 

What we (I say that in a general statement based on what I’m reading) are concerned with at the moment is the only semi concrete fact we have right now:

 

We have waited and waited for them to receive compensation for Williams and we never did. And now his value is absolutely tanking. 
 

The GMs job is to protect the players (and employees) first and the franchise second. He may have failed at the first, but we’ll find out. He has definitely failed at the second.

 

I have a suspicion that you’re attempting to rile the masses on this purposely, but even still, you can’t be missing the fact that the lack of action has tanked his value.

 

I've said numerous times: Trent's trade value should fall waaaaaaaay below Trent's life. You said it also up above.

 

But what is happening now is not "he said/they said"...because the Skins have not said anything, especially not in response to all the stuff Trent has been saying over the last week. Their only response was to request an independent 3rd-party investigation as is described in the CBA. That's it. So there really isn't a back and forth bickering between Trent and the team. There is among Redskins fans lol...

 

Also, not sure if you are on twitter, but over the past several days I've had my feed flooded with different sports media people who follow the Skins imploring me to read the latest interviews that Trent has made. it's all "YOU MUST READ THIS"...and then, of course, is followed up with how the Skins treated Trent is disgusting, and they almost killed him, and just goes to show how pathetic and dysfunctional the team really is, and he should sue the Redskins, and how can you keep on a GM (or "GM") who cares so little about the health of the players, etc, etc...They see the treatment of Trent's health as proof-positive of Bruce's ineptitude and the team's horrific dysfunction--and yes, numerous tweets about Dan and Bruce's dysfunction almost killed it's "longest-tenured, 7 Pro bowls player"--and I'm assuming those media members who keep imploring me to read his interviews feel the same way...so I'm guessing that I'm not the only one who sees the medical issues Trent keeps bringing up again and again as little more than a distraction. Only I see it as an incredibly serious discussion that needs to be treated with seriousness and urgency, and as more than a talking point for getting Bruce fired.

Edited by Califan007

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7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Have you heard/read his interviews? He is in NO WAY treating the med staff's misdiagnosis as "**** like this happens all around the league". The damage he is doing (or attempting to do) to the reputation of the Skins medical staff should beg anyone to ask why he isn't doing more. When his teammates are heard saying 'Preach" in the background while he's talking about how the team's misdiagnosis almost cost him his life, you can be damn sure they aren't thinking "Yeah, but you know, it happens, that's life." I am somewhat surprised by the desire to minimize the reality of what Trent is claiming and putting out there about how the Redskins approach and mistreat the health of its players so that the focus will stay on message: "See, Bruce needs to go."

 

You're the one throwing around medical terms with legal implications.  You're stoking outrage around his comments, but it appears to me that you have more of a problem with him speaking to the media at all, than what he actually said.  

 

All Trent said, after the FO forced his hand by not trading him, is that he's lost trust in the org, and he wasn't happy with the care he received.  You're treating this like a legal disposition, and Trent has been remarkably measured in his comments.  And he's been consistent across different interviews. 

 

He knows the investigation would be a nothing burger.  Aside from there being no satisfactory outcome for him, you have to believe that the NFL isn't interested in highlighting the fact that the medical staffs aren't operating independently of the FOs' priorities.  That's truly the root cause of the issue.  He knows that's not changing even with him speaking out against the Redskins.    

 

Quote

Just a thought: if the Inova medical staff is indeed its own entity as an independent contractor and not employees of the Redskins, what if Inova decides to sue Williams for slander? I'm guessing that would also be blamed on Bruce for not trading Trent...and the seriousness of what Trent is doing and saying would still be minimized and the lawsuit would just be another thing to throw on the "oh well, **** happens" pile.

 

They can't.  And they wouldn't.  What would the discovery process for such a lawsuit be?  Them requesting Trent's medical records that he'd have to provide his consent to release?  There's enough examples from other incidents to really question whether they're good at what they do (not to mention all of the recurring injuries, infections, etc) to act like they are some innocent victims in any circumstance.  

 

 

 

 

 

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Regardless of who is at fault here, there's a human element to this. If I'm a player, free agent or a draft pick, and I see how this organization treats one of its stars; why the hell would I sign with this team? The perception Bruce has given this organization, warranted or not in Trent's case, will prevent elite talent from wanting to come here. If Bruce isn't gone by draft time, it's likely we may have a John Elway or Eli Manning situation on our hands. Whoever comes in after Bruce is going to have quite a bit of work to rehabilitate the image of the organization so good players will want to sign here. 

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4 minutes ago, megared said:

All Trent said, after the FO forced his hand by not trading him, is that he's lost trust in the org, and he wasn't happy with the care he received. 

 

That's all he said? Really?

 

I won't quote from the interviews cuz there's a helluva lot there to quote...but you have to know he's said much, much more than that.

EDIT: And the FO didn't force his hand by not trading him....Trent said they forced his hand by conducting what he believes was a misinformation campaign.

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38 minutes ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

So, Trent Williams did not get a second opinion, which seems strange on its face when one is facing a cancer diagnosis, but is it?

 

But then again, just look at him.  By that I mean just look at his teeth -- they are the teeth of a third world person, someone who has not seen a dentist in ages and does not know what the word fluoride means.  The gaps between his adjacent teeth are humongous -- he has no need for floss, since the spacings between his teeth are huge.

 

Now, why would someone who is super-rich not fix that?   Invisalign, anyone?

 

I just think he has no interest in fixing his teeth, and also  no interest in finding out if he really had cancer or not.

 

Strange egg, that TW.

 

 

The 107 story went along the lines of his being annoyed at the lump on his head for cosmetic reasons.  It required him to keep his hair long.  It was  there for 6 years and he wasn't worried about it enough to get it removed and when he did, it was because it was ugly, not that he was worried that it may be cancerous.  It was at that point that they realized that it wasn't a cyst.

 

Personally, if I had a cyst on my head that continued to grow, I sure as hell am getting it looked at more than just a cursory exam and , honestly, I am getting it removed after the 3rd year just because.  But thats me.

 

I'm getting the feeling that Trent has more than a little phobia about doctors and procedures and when no one seemed concerned about it, he was good to not dig deeper.

 

But I still do not get him blaming the team for doctors misdiagnosing this lump.  Unless Bruce told the doctors to downplay the seriousness of it, which does no jive with the 107 story.

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7 minutes ago, Busch1724 said:

Regardless of who is at fault here, there's a human element to this. If I'm a player, free agent or a draft pick, and I see how this organization treats one of its stars; why the hell would I sign with this team? The perception Bruce has given this organization, warranted or not in Trent's case, will prevent elite talent from wanting to come here. If Bruce isn't gone by draft time, it's likely we may have a John Elway or Eli Manning situation on our hands. Whoever comes in after Bruce is going to have quite a bit of work to rehabilitate the image of the organization so good players will want to sign here. 

 

All the more reason why what Trent is saying in his interviews should be scrutinized, and all the more reason why having an independent 3rd-party investigation would be the right avenue to take.

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1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

All the more reason why what Trent is saying in his interviews should be scrutinized, and all the more reason why having an independent 3rd-party investigation would be the right avenue to take.

 

If INOVA dropped the ball, then the team should know this and cut ties with them immediately.

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2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

That's all he said? Really?

 

I won't quote from the interviews cuz there's a helluva lot there to quote...but you have to know he's said much, much more than that.

EDIT: And the FO didn't force his hand by not trading him....Trent said they forced his hand by conducting what he believes was a misinformation campaign.

 

You're throwing out terms like 'misdiagnosis'.  He made no such accusation.  He said he's lost trust in the team.  He said the doctors told him to get his affairs in order.  He said he could've lost his life.  He didn't attribute any theoretical loss of life directly to the medical team.

 

What you're alleging he said, and what was said, are two different things.  

 

And you're connecting those things to all be congruent, when they clearly aren't.  

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2 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

If INOVA dropped the ball, then the team should know this and cut ties with them immediately.

 

But Trent said the team already knows lol...someone on twitter (might have been here but I think it was twitter) actually said that as a valid reason why an independent investigation wasn't needed: because Trent said so.

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I think that if Trent truly wants out of here to play again, he'd be more inclined to work with the team, show that he's ready to play, and say all the right things in public.  Go to Bruce (or, as I like to call him, ****head) and explain to him that he is no way every playing again for this team, but will be a good soldier if Bruce gets him traded and does not try to toll his contract for this year.  Seems like the adult thing to do, especially if Bruce (or, as I like to call him, ****head) realizes that there will be no winners in this battle and agrees to move him in the off-season.

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7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

All the more reason why what Trent is saying in his interviews should be scrutinized, and all the more reason why having an independent 3rd-party investigation would be the right avenue to take.

 

That perception is already present, even without Trent talking. There's a body of evidence, right or wrong, that demonstrates how Bruce handles personnel matters. We can debate whether Kirk, Scott, and Trent should have or will stay, but the perception is they weren't handled well. Others see how well functioning organizations handle their business and see how the Redskins handle theirs. Individuals that can ultimately help this team will choose to go elsewhere. Those that do come, don't have other options or will be overpaid. 

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19 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

That's all he said? Really?

 

I won't quote from the interviews cuz there's a helluva lot there to quote...but you have to know he's said much, much more than that.

EDIT: And the FO didn't force his hand by not trading him....Trent said they forced his hand by conducting what he believes was a misinformation campaign.

 

Had they traded him, he never goes public.  He would've never found himself in a position to say anything beyond vague cliches, because his new team probably wouldn't want a part of that.  He said nothing until after the trade deadline passed.  

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1 minute ago, Busch1724 said:

 

That perception is already present, even without Trent talking. There's a body of evidence, right or wrong, that demonstrates how Bruce handles personnel matters.

You're missing the point entirely. The point is that medical staff has been accused of malpractice, hurting their players' careers and nearly costing them their lives. The staff is supposedly endangering the players... and the collective response to that is "wow that sucks"? The health of all the other players on the team matters too. That is why there should be an investigation, an investigation where Trent's testimony is extremely important. And THAT is why Trent's refusal to speak is so questionable to me. He recommended other players join this team after the holdout started and he openly said he doesn't want to get the staff that nearly killed him fired. Why? So that they can go all the way and kill a different player?

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4 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

You're missing the point entirely. The point is that medical staff has been accused of malpractice, hurting their players' careers and nearly costing them their lives. The staff is supposedly endangering the players... and the collective response to that is "wow that sucks"? The health of all the other players on the team matters too. That is why there should be an investigation, an investigation where Trent's testimony is extremely important. And THAT is why Trent's refusal to speak is so questionable to me. He recommended other players join this team after the holdout started and he openly said he doesn't want to get the staff that nearly killed him fired. Why? So that they can go all the way and kill a different player?

 

Been my point for a while.  If the medical staff is deadly incompetent, then you owe it to your teammates to assist in resolving it.  If the medical staff almost killed him, why did he tell Penn to accept an offer to play here, and why would Penn choose to accept it if he knew how close INOVA came to causing Trent's death.

 

It's like getting food poisoning at a restaurant.  Do you tell all your friends to eat there or to avoid it like the plague?

 

Edited by sempre_victrix
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8 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

You're missing the point entirely.

 

I don't disagree, but the point I was making was that whether Trent eventually cooperates with a 3rd party investigation or not, the damage is done. That's Bruce's fault. Trent could do a solid and help out who is left here by having a 3rd party investigate, but that's a separate issue from what I was making. I guess ultimately what I was saying is that, no matter what happens, the perception of the organization is terrible and doesn't seem to do what's in the best interests of the people employed by the team. Bruce always must win. That isn't always the right thing to do. There are ethical dilemmas leadership must consider and Bruce is terrible at analyzing those. It prevents competent people from coming here. 

Edited by Busch1724

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1 hour ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

So, Trent Williams did not get a second opinion, which seems strange on its face when one is facing a cancer diagnosis, but is it?

 

But then again, just look at him.  By that I mean just look at his teeth -- they are the teeth of a third world person, someone who has not seen a dentist in ages and does not know what the word fluoride means.  The gaps between his adjacent teeth are humongous -- he has no need for floss, since the spacings between his teeth are huge.

 

Now, why would someone who is super-rich not fix that?   Invisalign, anyone?

 

I just think he has no interest in fixing his teeth, and also  no interest in finding out if he really had cancer or not.

 

Strange egg, that TW.

 

What the **** is wrong with you

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wanted to add another point to my previous post. 

Edited by Busch1724
wanted to add another point to my previous post.

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6 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

Been my point for a while.  If the medical staff is deadly incompetent, then you owe it to your teammates to assist in resolving it.  If the medical staff almost killed him, why did he tell Penn to accept an offer to play here, and why would Penn choose to accept it if he knew how close INOVA came to causing Trent's death.

 

It's like getting food poisoning at a restaurant.  Do you tell all your friends to eat there or to avoid it like the plague?

 

Who said he didn’t warn him? Penn wanted a job though so I’m sure he took it under advisement.

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11 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Who said he didn’t warn him? Penn wanted a job though so I’m sure he took it under advisement.

 

I am incredibly happy that Trent is cancer free and on the road to recover.  I am in no way downplaying that he was honestly and truly scared for his life once he heard that it was more than a cyst.  I also think Trent's brush with death gets worse every time he tells the story to someone.

 

 

Edited by sempre_victrix

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Usually this happens with players we cut, which allows some folks to conveniently blame the player for being bitter. There was no reason for Trent to be bitter. If this doesn’t sway your opinion and make you believe how dirty and rotten the front office is, then not much will sway you.

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5 minutes ago, megared said:

 

You're throwing out terms like 'misdiagnosis'.  He made no such accusation.  He said he's lost trust in the team.  He said the doctors told him to get his affairs in order.  He said he could've lost his life.  He didn't attribute any theoretical loss of life directly to the medical team.

 

What you're alleging he said, and what was said, are two different things.  

 

And you're connecting those things to all be congruent, when they clearly aren't.  

 

(*ahem*)

 

"Williams also said that doctors “underestimated” the initial diagnosis and that the condition “was far more advanced than they realized.”

 

"I was told it was something minor, so I didn’t really question it...If I’m being told by the very people who I put my career in the hands of telling me I’m fine, then I’m fine. That’s how I looked at it."

 

"I guess nobody took the time to see what was going on there,” he said, describing what he felt was the way team doctors handled the questions he kept asking over the years about the growth on his head."

 

"And I was like ya know, 'Trust me, man. The doctors I've been going to for four or five years…every doctor told me the same thing. It's a cyst.  [...]And he (the plastic surgeon) called one of the docs — the team doctors — and he reassured him that they've been looking at it and this is what they think it is... I got it removed and I was just looking forward to getting the stitches taken out so I could go ahead and get back to my life. And then (the plastic surgeon) called and said, 'Hey, this is not a cyst. It's something else.' "

 

"if your doctor who is responsible for billions of dollars worth of athletes in a locker room is telling you that this non-football injury is a cyst or whatever and it's minor and ****, I don't know too many people who are going to question that position."

 

"Williams says the alleged misdiagnosis from team doctors is the reason he's been away from the 'Skins this season ... and he didn't seem sure if he'd ever play for the team again.

 

"Seriously, I almost lost my life," Williams said."

 

 

mis·di·ag·nose

make an incorrect diagnosis of (a particular illness).

 

****************

 

I don't know about you, but what Trent described above (and he has said more than just the above) qualifies as a misdiagnosis on the part of the team doctors.

 

And apparently the media outlets covering the story interpreted it the same way I did:

 

 

"Trent Williams Accuses Redskins Of Misdiagnosing Cancer ... 'I Almost Lost My Life'"

 

"Washington Redskins' Trent Williams Claims Team Doctors Misdiagnosed His Rare Cancer for 6 Years"

 

"NFL’s Trent Williams Reveals Cancer Was Misdiagnosed by Team Doctors"

 

"Redskins Star Trent Williams Accuses Team of Misdiagnosing Cancer for 6 Years in Fiery Return"

 

 

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Usually this happens with players we cut, which allows some folks to conveniently blame the player for being bitter. There was no reason for Trent to be bitter. If this doesn’t sway your opinion and make you believe how dirty and rotten the front office is, then not much will sway you.

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1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

(*ahem*)

 

"Williams also said that doctors “underestimated” the initial diagnosis and that the condition “was far more advanced than they realized.”

 

"I was told it was something minor, so I didn’t really question it...If I’m being told by the very people who I put my career in the hands of telling me I’m fine, then I’m fine. That’s how I looked at it."

 

"I guess nobody took the time to see what was going on there,” he said, describing what he felt was the way team doctors handled the questions he kept asking over the years about the growth on his head."

 

"And I was like ya know, 'Trust me, man. The doctors I've been going to for four or five years…every doctor told me the same thing. It's a cyst.  [...]And he (the plastic surgeon) called one of the docs — the team doctors — and he reassured him that they've been looking at it and this is what they think it is... I got it removed and I was just looking forward to getting the stitches taken out so I could go ahead and get back to my life. And then (the plastic surgeon) called and said, 'Hey, this is not a cyst. It's something else.' "

 

"if your doctor who is responsible for billions of dollars worth of athletes in a locker room is telling you that this non-football injury is a cyst or whatever and it's minor and ****, I don't know too many people who are going to question that position."

 

"Williams says the alleged misdiagnosis from team doctors is the reason he's been away from the 'Skins this season ... and he didn't seem sure if he'd ever play for the team again.

 

"Seriously, I almost lost my life," Williams said."

 

 

mis·di·ag·nose

make an incorrect diagnosis of (a particular illness).

 

****************

 

I don't know about you, but what Trent described above (and he has said more than just the above) qualifies as a misdiagnosis on the part of the team doctors.

 

And apparently the media outlets covering the story interpreted it the same way I did:

 

 

"Trent Williams Accuses Redskins Of Misdiagnosing Cancer ... 'I Almost Lost My Life'"

 

"Washington Redskins' Trent Williams Claims Team Doctors Misdiagnosed His Rare Cancer for 6 Years"

 

"NFL’s Trent Williams Reveals Cancer Was Misdiagnosed by Team Doctors"

 

"Redskins Star Trent Williams Accuses Team of Misdiagnosing Cancer for 6 Years in Fiery Return"

 

 

 

So "underestimated" = misdiagnosis? 

 

Because the authors of those articles wrote 'misdiagnosis' as their headlines, we can now attribute that as a direct quote to him?

 

There's a legal burden of proof associated with the term misdiagnosis.  I'm sure he was coached up to avoid such terms.  

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