Koolblue13 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, PartyPosse said: Ok, so what has he done that's a crime? You mean other than the illegal drugs and intentionality not calling 911 while someone was dieing in his house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 34 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: So not only do we not know what he did, but he's already dead wrong for doing it? Multiple sources said he didnt call 911, do we need every reason at this point? Is not wanting the cops to come to his place and find drugs be enough? We dont even need a conspiracy here he has weed in the house and that's against the substance abuse policy, if we dont stop him from playing it's only a matter of time until the NFL does. When we go forward in this thread, the question of him still being on the team and the full story on what happened should be separate. I'd like to hear if anyone right now needs more info before cutting him today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: . When we go forward in this thread, the question of him still being on the team and the full story on what happened should be separate. I'd like to hear if anyone right now needs more info before cutting him today. Right? Its absurd that the coaches ignored it. If I heard "one of my players girlfriends ODd last night, while with my player", hes sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: You mean other than the illegal drugs and intentionality not calling 911 while someone was dieing in his house? If he didn't know about it, did he commit a crime? Also, is driving someone to the hospital instead of calling 911 a crime? No. AGAIN, do we know the facts? How far away from a hospital is he? Did he think it would be better if they drove instead of waiting for an ambulance? Again, you can speculate all you want, but until there is an actual crime committed by Montae, then maybe, JUST maybe cool your jets. 10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Multiple sources said he didnt call 911, do we need every reason at this point? Is not wanting the cops to come to his place and find drugs be enough? I'm sorry, I didn't know you and Montae were such good friends that he disclosed all this to you. He did disclose it all to you, right? I mean you wouldn't be so certain about why he did what he did UNLESS he told you, right? My apologies. No offense, if that was truly the case, it would be pretty easy to ditch the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: I'm sorry, I didn't know you and Montae were such good friends that he disclosed all this to you. He did disclose it all to you, right? I mean you wouldn't be so certain about why he did what he did UNLESS he told you, right? My apologies. No offense, if that was truly the case, it would be pretty easy to ditch the evidence. Are you defending him or attacking me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: If he didn't know about it, did he commit a crime? Also, is driving someone to the hospital instead of calling 911 a crime? No. AGAIN, do we know the facts? How far away from a hospital is he? Did he think it would be better if they drove instead of waiting for an ambulance? Again, you can speculate all you want, but until there is an actual crime committed by Montae, then maybe, JUST maybe cool your jets. I'm sorry, I didn't know you and Montae were such good friends that he disclosed all this to you. He did disclose it all to you, right? I mean you wouldn't be so certain about why he did what he did UNLESS he told you, right? My apologies. No offense, if that was truly the case, it would be pretty easy to ditch the evidence. IDGAF. If I'm a coach or Allen or whoever, I'm not a judge and it's not court. Him bring involved with any of it is going to result in the bench, until I know what's happening, because I dont want myself or the organization getting clowned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: IDGAF. If I'm a coach or Allen or whoever, I'm not a judge and it's not court. Him bring involved with any of it is going to result in the bench, until I know what's happening, because I dont want myself or the organization getting clowned. I'm convinced some people are arguing jus to argue in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Are you defending him or attacking me? Neither. I'm stating that judging someone based on your own preconceived perceptions is a dangerous game. Right now you're making him out to be a cold-hearted piece of ****. Maybe, JUST maybe he's actually struggling with this? Maybe he's a human being? I dunno. 6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I'm convinced some people are arguing jus to argue in here. And i'm convinced some people want to automatically assume the worst of people and absolutely refuse to change that stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, PartyPosse said: Neither. I'm stating that judging someone based on your own preconceived perceptions is a dangerous game. Right now you're making him out to be a cold-hearted piece of ****. Maybe, JUST maybe he's actually struggling with this? Maybe he's a human being? I dunno. You are assuming this, show me where I said that. If you need to reread my position from get-go when this whole thing broke, please do. He doesn't need to be anything but cut based on what jus came out today, that he has drugs in the house. Hes not a star on a contract that would crush us cutting him. Stop overthinking this trying to be fair. The NFL wont. 9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: And i'm convinced some people want to automatically assume the worst of people and absolutely refuse to change that stance. Pot meet kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I'm convinced some people are arguing jus to argue in here. This one seems so cut and dry, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: You are assuming this, show me where I said that. If you need to reread my position from get-go when this whole thing broke, please do. You literally said he didn't call 911 for an ambulance to save his ODing girlfriend because he didn't want cops to come and find drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: If he didn't know about it, did he commit a crime? Also, is driving someone to the hospital instead of calling 911 a crime? No. AGAIN, do we know the facts? How far away from a hospital is he? Did he think it would be better if they drove instead of waiting for an ambulance? Again, you can speculate all you want, but until there is an actual crime committed by Montae, then maybe, JUST maybe cool your jets. We don't know all the facts. He may have done everything right. However, with what has been reported so far, there is reason to be concerned about the situation. Initial reports, which may be incorrect or lack context, are that: 1. He phoned this girl's family about her condition, and they said to call 911. He reportedly did not do that. 2. She apparently died of a drug overdose while she was with him, and there were drugs found at his place. 3. He then showed up at the hospital with her corpse. Based on those initial reports, I believe that many teams would chose to have the player sit out of the game on Sunday rather than have him represent the organization on national TV that day. I don't think that you have to assume that he is guilty of a crime, or caused her death, in order to decide that he should not have played until further information becomes available. I believe it is reasonable to have him sit out while the issue is investigated. Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept. Many organizations, especially those in the public eye, put an employee on leave when there is the possibility of improper behavior that could reflect negatively on the organization. It seems like a prudent thing to do, especially when someone lost their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, PartyPosse said: You literally said he didn't call 911 for an ambulance to save his ODing girlfriend because he didn't want cops to come and find drugs. I said show me where I said he was heartless. He probably did want to save her and didnt want the cops in his house. I mentioned this damned if you do or dont position you put yourself in when dealing with certain people when this story broke. Have you re-read my posts yet, or still making assumptions after telling me I shouldnt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Nerm said: I believe that many teams would chose to have the player sit out of the game on Sunday rather than have him represent the organization on national TV that day. And there is definitely an argument to made, but I don't think it's detrimental to anyone that he ended up playing. 3 minutes ago, Nerm said: Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept. Not on THIS message board. You're a bust until you're not, you're guilty until you're not. We as a collective fanbase just automatically expect the worst to be true. That's essentially what has happened to this franchise as a whole. I don't blame the fans or any of us. We're just programmed to expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: I said show me where I said he was heartless. He probably did want to save her and didnt want the cops in his house. I mentioned this damned if you do or dont position you put yourself in when dealing with certain people when this story broke. Have you re-read my posts yet, or still making assumptions after telling me I shouldnt? I also didn't say you said these things, but that you were making him out to be these things. In your narrative the pros of covering his own ass outweighed the cons of risking her life. Doesn't mean he didn't wasn't to save her, but that wasn't his priority. My perspective? Dude panicked. Didn't know what to do. Called her family, they suggested he call 911, she was probably having a seizure of some sort (again, and this is also based on a really ****ty past I've had, this is ONLY my opinion) and he freaked out and couldn't (or didn't want to) sit around idly so he drove. She did drugs, he accepted it, that's his right and his risk but he still didn't do anything wrong. I'm fairly certain (but not 100%) that if you went to houses of half the players in the NFL there would be traces of drug, drug paraphernalia and other illicit substances from friends or hanger-ons. Right now neither of us are right or wrong because it's all hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: I also didn't say you said these things, but that you were making him out to be these things. In your narrative the pros of covering his own ass outweighed the cons of risking her life. Doesn't mean he didn't wasn't to save her, but that wasn't his priority. I'm going to step back and look at this from the perspective of what you think I'm saying. I cant keep going back and forth with you if you keep trying to have this conversation for me. I'm not sure how the bolded is different things, jus that you posted this and it's inaccurate representation of my position and irrelevant to why I want him cut now. 53 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Right now you're making him out to be a cold-hearted piece of **** I said I wanted more info, I got me info. He has drugs in the house. Everything else is separate for me, I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it, but he doesnt need to be employed by the team when they do. Dude a second chance and blew it on the drugs in the house alone, we are talking a out two different things at the same time right now. If you want to talk about taking what I know now with what I said then, look at what I said and come back. This conversation wont work unless you do. Quote My perspective? Dude panicked. Didn't know what to do. Called her family, they suggested he call 911, she was probably having a seizure of some sort (again, and this is also based on a really ****ty past I've had, this is ONLY my opinion) and he freaked out and couldn't (or didn't want to) sit around idly so he drove. She did drugs, he accepted it, that's his right and his risk but he still didn't do anything wrong. I'm fairly certain (but not 100%) that if you went to houses of half the players in the NFL there would be traces of drug, drug paraphernalia and other illicit substances from friends or hanger-ons. Right now neither of us are right or wrong because it's all hearsay. And you saying I'm making assumptions? How bout jus because everyone else is doing it, supposedly, doesnt mean he should. This is not the 1980s, and even if 2019, Virginia doesnt allow recreational weed and neither does the NFL. Dude is about to get possession charges and you going back and forth with me about how conflicted he was wanting to save her life with drugs in the house. I cant keep saying he put himself in a bad position to begin with regardless of whether or not he did the right thing next. USA Today article said they found pills, too. Do we need more information on those, too, or is that missing the point at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I'm going to step back and look at this from the perspective of what you think I'm saying. I cant keep going back and forth with you if you keep trying to have this conversation for me. I'm not sure how the bolded is different things, jus that you posted this and it's inaccurate representation of my position and irrelevant to why I want him cut now. I said I wanted more info, I got me info. He has drugs in the house. Everything else is separate for me, I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it, but he doesnt need to be employed by the team when they do. Dude a second chance and blew it on the drugs in the house alone, we are talking a out two different things at the same time right now. If you want to talk about taking what I know now with what I said then, look at what I said and come back. This conversation wont work unless you do. And you saying I'm making assumptions? How bout jus because everyone else is doing it, supposedly, doesnt mean he should. This is not the 1980s, and even if 2019, Virginia doesnt allow recreational weed and neither does the NFL. Dude is about to get possession charges and you going back and forth with me about how conflicted he was wanting to save her life with drugs in the house. I cant keep saying he put himself in a bad position to begin with regardless of whether or not he did the right thing next. USA Today article said they found pills, too. Do we need more information on those, too, or is that missing the point at this point? okie dokie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: okie dokie Is that your post about half the players in the league having drug stuff in their house? No way, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Is that your post about half the players in the league having drug stuff in their house? No way, right? Ah, I see what you did there. Good stuff. I hope the situation works out for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Ah, I see what you did there. Good stuff. I hope the situation works out for everyone. Except his girlfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, Koolblue13 said: Except his girlfriend. Yeah... shame he killed her, sold the rest of his drugs to school children and the team STILL had the nerve to let him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: This one seems so cut and dry, too. Yall have no idea how much I'm trying to resist my instincts telling me "walk like a duck, quacks like a duck" territory with him possibly having his own drug problem. I havent heard a word on whether he knew he was dating a heroin user, pretty sure his lawyer told him not to answer that, why I wanted him piss tested asap. This isnt rocket science if you've known people with drug problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: No way, right? No Kerrigan either or Thompson. Or AP Yeah yeah, i know......I’ll show myself out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Yeah... shame he killed her, sold the rest of his drugs to school children and the team STILL had the nerve to let him play. Dont be a dolt. Its ****ing tragic. No matter what nefarious things come out of this, its tragic. Drug addiction is tragic all the way around. Something awful happened and theres no reason he should have been on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I hope the Skins brASS get called out during the broadcast on him playing despite very shady circumstances surrounding her death. Who in the world would have questioned if we just made him inactive on Sunday? It's such a no brainer solid first step for any reputable company. Especially one with a damn good culture. Coupled with his brawl last year, he should be gone. He is clearly struggling to stay out of trouble, and the league simply does not need him to survive. We don't need him to be the worst team in the league. He is, somehow, making our culture worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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