Johnny Punani2 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Originally posted by jbooma However Bubba we will lose room if we have to franchise him. Then we have to clear 6 million just for him and that will mean cutting some people. The only way we don't have room is if we can trade him before all of that happens. The Skins could slap the Transition tag on him. That would req a 1st and 3rd for another team to sign him. However, like I said before, if we only get that for him we get robbed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 i'd make that trade for a top 5 pick, and then also sign ty law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 As fans thinking about what we would want, we should also cconsider who our FO would pick up with picks, and compare those potentials with Champ. I don't know about you, but the way our FO picks people, I'd be worried. Picking up Taylor Jacobs with our first pick last year was ridiculous. I don't think he was "a steal" like they said, but even if he was (and he wasn't) we didn't need as much help at WR as we did at other positions. I'd be worried at losing Champ and then getting picks like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Originally posted by Johnny Punani The Skins could slap the Transition tag on him. That would req a 1st and 3rd for another team to sign him. However, like I said before, if we only get that for him we get robbed... Its better then nothing. It is hard to get more then 2 picks for a defensive player. I know you mentioned Gilbert, but then again Carolina was desperate and things don't happen like that because teams know how important picks are. If we get one pick we will be lucky. Look at Peerless Price last year. Atlanta got him for I think one #1. I would like to know what defensive players that have been traded have gotten more then one pick recently. The only player on any team that is worth 2 #1's on defense is Ray Lewis, there is no one else in that discussion right now. Not Lavar, not Urlacher, not anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 here are all the corners that will be free agents this offseason tell me we cant find someone that will play very well for cheaper than 20 million Bailey, Champ Washington Redskins UFA Barrett, David Arizona Cardinals UFA Bartee, William Kansas City Chiefs UFA Bell, Jason Houston Texans RFA Bolden, Juran Atlanta Falcons UFA Brown, Fakhir New Orleans Saints UFA Brown, Ralph New York Giants UFA Bryant, Fernando Jacksonville Jaguars UFA Buckley, Terrell Miami Dolphins UFA Butler, Jerametrius St. Louis Rams RFA Crosby, Cliff Indianapolis Colts UFA Edwards, Mario Dallas Cowboys UFA Harper, Nick Indianapolis Colts RFA Hawthorne, Michael Green Bay Packers UFA Henderson, Jamie New York Jets RFA Hill, Renaldo Arizona Cardinals RFA Holman, Rashad San Francisco 49ers RFA Howard, Reggie Carolina Panthers UFA Iwuoma, Chidi Pittsburgh Steelers RFA Johnson, Darrius Kansas City Chiefs UFA Jue, Bhawoh Green Bay Packers RFA Kelly, Eric Minnesota Vikings RFA Knight, Tommy Baltimore Ravens UFA Love, Clarence Oakland Raiders UFA Macklin, David Indianapolis Colts UFA McAlister, Chris Baltimore Ravens UFA McDaniel, Emmanuel Arizona Cardinals UFA McMillon, Todd Chicago Bears UFA Peterson, Will New York Giants RFA Plummer, Ahmed San Francisco 49ers UFA Sanders, Lewis Cleveland Browns UFA Serwanga, Kato New York Giants UFA Shaw, Terrance Oakland Raiders UFA Sidney, Dainon Buffalo Bills UFA Simmons, Jason Houston Texans UFA Smith, Otis Detroit Lions UFA Spencer, Jimmy Denver Broncos UFA Springs, Shawn Seattle Seahawks UFA Taylor, Bobby Philadelphia Eagles UFA Thomas, Fred New Orleans Saints UFA Thomas, Kiwaukee Jacksonville Jaguars UFA Trapp, James Jacksonville Jaguars UFA Vaughn, Darrick Houston Texans RFA Vincent, Troy Philadelphia Eagles UFA Walls, Raymond Baltimore Ravens RFA Weary, Fred St. Louis Rams UFA Webster, Jason San Francisco 49ers UFA Williams, Jimmy San Francisco 49ers RFA Williams, Willie Seattle Seahawks UFA Winfield, Antoine Buffalo Bills UFA Woodson, Charles Oakland Raiders UFA Wyrick, Jimmy Detroit Lions UFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 if we have two picks in the top ten dont know what two players we would pick but i can tell you one will be Sean Taylor S from Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 what position does Sean Taylor play? Free or Strong? -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Either way i wont be too upset. For the money he's asking I dont think he's a very good leader or anything, i think he kinda brings the team down sometimes, but i dont know these things for sure, im not in the locker room. My problem is, that if he wants big money he needs to make big time plays, and he's not doing that, he doesnt get many INT's thats just how he plays, is he the best CB in the league?? Yes, he probably is, he can cover anyone by himself, except Toomer. But is the best CB in the league really worth that much money?? Thats my question. Great defenses are usually centered around the defensive line, not the corners. Smoot is very good, Champ is awesome, I would like it if Champ came back, but I wouldnt cry if he left. I'm kinda middle of the road on this one here, I dont know what to think. I keep thinking TRADE HIM in my head thinking of those penalties on sunday, but then I have flashbacks of like the Pats game where he was awesome. I just dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I personally like Antoine Winfield... HOWEVER.... While I am a part of the "Bailey sucks this season" crowd, I firmly believe that getting rid of him will be a big mistake. I think that if we added a pass rusher or two during the offseason, Bailey's play would definately be on the up and up... It's very difficult for a corner to cover the receivers in the leagues these days, even the best of the best corners will struggle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 The Skins will pick up money when we lose Bruce, as well as a few others, there will be some reworking of other..... We are not in dire cap straights. TOO much is being made about Champ against the cap, {especially not knowing exactly how the cap for next year will play out} and forgetting what we lose if he leaves. Do you think we will have enough money to sign 3 first rounders if we trade Champ for 2 #1's?? resigning Champ would be much cheaper, and you have a proven top CB, that you don't have to waste a top pick or a big free agent signing for a player who may be almost as good. Draft picks are good, but the pick is only as good as the player picked, and again most first rounders are busts. so you are spending away cap money on a maybe. My opinion is you don't risk a maybe for a proven, when the proven is still young and one of the if not the best at his position in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Taylor plays Free... Sikes is Miami's strong... What would I do with two picks for Bailey? Easy. Pollack/Will Smith and Sean Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Two questions: 1) Am I the only one who couldn't get the link to this story to work? and 2) Is this the same guy who said we'd be trading Smoot to Detroit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 One thing the skins F.O. does is draft well in the first round. Bailey doesnt make enough game changeing plays to be given a contract like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Originally posted by bubba9497 The Skins will pick up money when we lose Bruce, as well as a few others, there will be some reworking of other..... We are not in dire cap straights. TOO much is being made about Champ against the cap, {especially not knowing exactly how the cap for next year will play out} and forgetting what we lose if he leaves. Do you think we will have enough money to sign 3 first rounders if we trade Champ for 2 #1's?? resigning Champ would be much cheaper, and you have a proven top CB, that you don't have to waste a top pick or a big free agent signing for a player who may be almost as good. Draft picks are good, but the pick is only as good as the player picked, and again most first rounders are busts. so you are spending away cap money on a maybe. My opinion is you don't risk a maybe for a proven, when the proven is still young and one of the if not the best at his position in the league. Bubba, we wouldn't be signing 3 1st round picks. If we got 2 1st round picks it would be spread out over 2 yrs. Also, you are forgetting a crucial thing. Bailey doesn't want to be here anymore. There is not much you can do about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 if we have two picks in the top ten dont know what two players we would pick but i can tell you one will be Sean Taylor S from Miami. Did you say.........S S S S Sean T T Taylor!?!?!! Oh man, Sean Taylor is the most badass player ever, and I hate Miami too! I wonder if Taylor is a human being, i saw him play against VT, he doesnt seem to look or move like a real human, he's like Lavar in the secondary!!!!! He might have more INT's this year than our secondary combined!?!??!! Well, not quite. But he's got more TD's than Trung/Betts combined, and he plays defense!!!!!! Oh man, this guy is awesome. What would I do with 2 first rounders this year??? hmmmmmm, Sean Taylor annnd Kevin Jones!!! If they come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 Sean Taylor would help me forget about Champ Bailey. Am i the only one that thinks that tradeing Champ for picks is better for the team next year and in the future?? and yes Sean Taylor is a beast!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I really wish we didn't have a large need for DLine, because Sean Taylor is my favorite college player as of right now... I would love to have him as a Skin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 read these and see if you might be open to tradeing Champ to pick this guy up. Sean Taylor Taylor Semi-finalist For Thorpe Award By Hurricanesports.com Date: Nov 5, 2003 University of Miami defensive junior safety Sean Taylor (Miami, Fla./Gulliver Prep) is among 12 players listed as semi-finalists for the 2003 Jim Thorpe Award honoring college football's top defensive back, the Jim Thorpe Association announced Wednesday. Through eight games, Taylor leads the BIG EAST Conference and ranks third nationally in interceptions per game (0.96) with six, a total that already ranks among the top 10 for interceptions in a season at Miami. He ranks second on the Hurricanes in total tackles with 53 (33 solos). He has produced a team-best 12 pass breakups this season along with 4.5 tackles for losses, one quarterback sack and one quarterback hurry. Taylor also has been a force on special teams, having taken back two punts for a total of 65 yards (32.5 avg.) and returned three kickoffs for 86 yards (28.7 avg.), including a 68-yard return against Florida. Additionally, Taylor has returned interceptions for an average of 22.2 yards, including a 67-yard touchdown return at Boston College and a 50-yard scoring runback at Florida State. He has done all of this while playing the season's first six games with an injured shoulder that was surgically repaired in mid-October causing him to miss one game. Taylor was recently rated college football's top player by ESPN The Magazine in a mid-season ranking, as he has become more than just a burgeoning star in the secondary. He also has solidified his standing as college football's finest defensive back through the first half of the 2003 season and is nothing less than a candidate for college football's highest honors. A gifted football player with a rare combination of size, speed, strength and agility, Taylor is a brutally hard hitter who also displays excellent skills as a coverage man and in run support. A standout in the tradition of former UM safeties Edward Reed and Bennie Blades, Taylor recently earned BIG EAST Defensive Player of the Week honors for his play against Florida State (Oct. 11). A screening committee of the Jim Thorpe Association researches and follows the performances of defensive backs as they compete through the season. The committee determines the semi-finalists the first week in November and will select three finalists on Monday, November 25. A national panel of former coaches, players and sportswriters and sportscasters then votes to select the winner. The 2003 Thorpe Award winner will be announced as part of the ESPN Home Depot College Football Awards Show to be held Thursday, December 11, 2003 in Orlando. The winner will be honored at a banquet in Oklahoma City scheduled for February 9, 2004. Despite missing a game with an injury, Taylor leads the BIG EAST Conference and ranks fifth nationally in interceptions per game (0.70) with seven, a total that ranks fifth for interceptions in a season at Miami. He ranks second on the Hurricanes in total tackles with 71 (44 solos). He has produced a team-best 13 pass breakups this season along with 7 tackles for losses, one quarterback sack and one quarterback hurry. Taylor also has been a force on special teams, having blocked a punt, taken back four punts for a total of 52 yards (13.0 avg.) and returned three kickoffs for 86 yards (28.7 avg.), including a 68-yard return against Florida. Additionally, Taylor has returned interceptions for an average of 25.3 yards, including a 67-yard touchdown return at Boston College, a 50-yard scoring runback at Florida State, and a 44-yard scoring runback this past Saturday against Rutgers. His three TD returns of interceptions this season is a Miami single-season record. He has done all of this while playing the entire season with an injured shoulder that was surgically repaired in mid-October, causing him to miss one game and forced him to play in constant pain since. Taylor was recently rated college football's top player by ESPN The Magazine in a midseason ranking, as he has become more than just a burgeoning star in the secondary. Named a Thorpe Award finalist on Tuesday, Taylor is a standout in the tradition of former UM safeties Edward Reed and Bennie Blades, Taylor earned BIG EAST Defensive Player of the Week honors for his play against Florida State (Oct. 11). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 bubba9497, how can you say that Bailey has made plenty of plays this season when the exact opposite is the case. Bailey has had numerous chances to make game changing plays this year but everytime he was in a position to turn the game around he failed miserably dropping sure INTs. For a player demanding a SB greather than $15 million Bailey has had not nearly the impact some of the other top corners in this league have had. Don't get me wrong, I still believe that Bailey is a great cover corner but he simply doesn't make nearly enough big plays to warrant the contract he is seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 he has made plays. he has prevented deep passes, caused turnovers, had some huge stops in the run game. Blocked some sure TD passes. He has a had a few inteceptions, but there is more to making plays than interceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanders 83 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Why cant I find the article from the first page? Is that real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Where is the proof that Champ doesn't want to be here anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I wonder if Sean Taylor would be available. http://www.houstonprofootball.com/draft/ Charged with building a team from scratch, Texans General Manager Charley Casserly has had to prioritize the team’s needs when deciding which direction to go with the franchise’s draft picks and salary cap space. The quarterback position received immediate attention, while free safety appears to be at or near the bottom of Casserly’s “must have” list. -- * * * -- Would Casserly be willing to change his philosophy in 2004 and spend a high draft choice on a free safety? Only four safeties have been selected in the top ten picks in any draft in the last 15 years: Miami’s Bennie Blades (third to the Lions in 1988), Southern Cal’s Mark Carrier (sixth to the Bears in 1990), UCLA’s Eric Turner (second to the Browns in 1991), and Oklahoma’s Roy Williams (eighth to the Cowboys in 2002). While it may be too early to fully evaluate Williams (although reports thus far have been positive), each of the other three proved to be, at a minimum, a sound investment, as each started in the NFL for at least nine seasons (including at least six for the team that drafted him), and each made at least one Pro Bowl. A safety must be a bona fide impact player, capable of dominating and changing the game, in order to merit selection that early in the draft. Florida State coach Bobby Bowden described such an impact player a few weeks ago: “It was obvious we could not throw long. You can’t hang the ball up for Number 26. I haven’t seen a safety that good in a long time. He hits as well as he covers.” The “Number 26” to whom Bowden referred was not Stevens, but Miami free safety Sean Taylor. At 6’2”, 230 lbs., Taylor is capable of running a sub-4.4 40. Unlike most safeties with these kind of numbers, who hit like linebackers and cover like…linebackers, Taylor is capable of doing the job in either man or zone coverage. While he has the size and speed to play bump-and-run against big receivers, Taylor is probably at his best in zone coverage when he can use his great closing speed to break on the ball. Against Florida State, Taylor picked off two Seminole passes (including one that he returned for a touchdown) and narrowly missed intercepting three more. While many of the highly touted safeties, such as Williams when he was at Oklahoma, play up in the box so much that they should be classified as linebackers, Taylor plays a true free safety position. The Hurricanes always line Taylor up on the wide side of the field to take maximum advantage of his superior range, and usually hand him responsibility for half of the deep zone as Miami plays a great deal of Cover 2. Although he will occasionally overrun a ballcarrier, Taylor is generally a solid tackler. Late in the game, the Florida State receivers seemed to be very cognizant of Taylor roaming the secondary and appeared at time to be looking for him instead of concentrating on the passes coming their way. When the Miami defense calls for him to blitz, Taylor is also able to make plays at or behind the line of scrimmage. He could be an effective weapon as a surprise pass rusher in the Texans’ zone blitz scheme. Taylor has become one of the vocal leaders of the Miami defense and shows the confident swagger of the great Hurricane defenders. Taylor missed Miami’s last game, against Temple, after undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his right shoulder but is expected to be ready for Virginia Tech on Saturday. The shoulder must be able to withstand the rigors of the season and the poking and prodding of the NFL medical staffs at the scouting combine if Taylor is to carry a high first-round grade. Taylor, a junior, is not a given to enter the 2004 draft, but most expect that he will come out early. Taylor has the potential to turn the weakest position on the Texan’s defense (unless McCree comes on) into the strongest within a few years. He would immediately add some much-needed speed to that side of the ball. Even though they may be able to find a competent free safety later in the draft, the Texans have to consider bringing Taylor into the fold if they have an opportunity to select him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 It's a good thing we'll be picking before the texans..... :doh: -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I'm with you Bubba, I have been preaching this all season that you don't get rid of your best players for "maybe's". Champ is still one of the best corners out there hands down. I think because of this one bad year he's having, is causing the majority of you ''Trade Champ for picks posters" to have short memory loss. Champ has made too many big plays during his tenure here to just give him up. I don't prescribe too much to the "What have you done for me lately attitude that floats through these message boards. And the thing about him not having a whole lot of interceptions can be a little misleading. Champ isn't going to have a whole lot of interceptions anyway because the majority of the QB's in this league won't throw in his direction. That is what being a true shutdown CB is about. And if this Sean Taylor guy is so damn good why hasn't his name been brought up for the Heisman? I might be a little biased to say this but I think Hall from VT has more pure talent anyway. Truth is, anybody can look good playing college ball, but what can they do when they come to play with the big boys? I think we should keep Champ, and not worry to much with the secondary, but focus more on trying to find a bruiser DT up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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