Bailey to Detroit!!

[Gamebreaker]

That first article in your last post shows he does want alot of money. I'll concede that. Yet that wouldn't explain why he didn't sign or even make a counter of the initial offer. If it was backloaded, maybe that is the problem.

The second article said the Skins backloaded the contract, but not because of cap reasons. That would mean signing Bailey to that type of contract wouldn't affect our chances of improving the DL. Also, that article contradicts itself when it says his contract, although backloaded, is guaranteed. When earlier it said Champ's agent had a big problem with the option bonus.

[Gamebreaker]

Skins24,

I never said the guy didn't want to be paid like a top player at his position. Yet my issues stem from the fans backlash because of this, and the thought that our DL can't be improved with him getting what he wants.

[Lavarleap56]

i want to know your ideas on upgradeing the D-line and signing Champ then. This team was built to stay together for three years and we have 2 left . The players under contract for next year are as follows

1)Wynn - possible cut

2)Upshaw-possible cut

3)Dalton- redo of contract or possible cut

4)Noble- if he can return

5)Haley

6)Smith- retire

we could be looking at trying to find 6 lineman next year.

[Lavarleap56]

And on top of that dont you want quality D-lineman not the league minimum guys we have had this year ?? a telling stat on how bad the line has been is that Renaldo Wynn is the leading tackler and he is 145th in the Nfl for lineman.

[Gamebreaker]

1)Wynn isn't a playmaker on the line, and although solid in the run. Doesn't exert himself enough, and we need someone could actually be a threat to get a sack. I would bench him and look for a replacement in FA.

2)Get rid of Upshaw, his more of a hinderance than a help.

3) Dalton should stay, he's been an improvement ever since he finally got in shape.

4)Noble should be allowed to compete next season, but I don't see him cracking the starting lineup unless we don't address the DL.

5) Haley isn't a starter. Let him be depth, or let him go.

6) Thank God!

Also, I think we should draft a DE to replace Smith/Upshaw with our first pick. Russell may be a keeper, but I'm leery of his other problems and lack of consistent play.

I don't see us completing a dominant DL by the next season opener, but to actually try before TC would be a start. With the type of players we have at LB and in the secondary, we won't need to have a great player at every spot.

[JJredskins00]

I'm tired of this getting rid of Bailey crap, he's one of our best players wether you like it or not, and he's not the biggest problem we've had this season.

[Lavarleap56]

O.k that sounds cgood but i will tell you this is what will happen due to the fact that we will not draft D-line in the first round if we have one pick maybe if we had 2 .

1) Franchise and trade champ to a team in the top ten draft position.

2) we will draft Sean Taylor from Miami , that will enable us to move Bowen to SS and Ohalate can be the third S instead of Todd Franz

3) This is where it might get weird and i think we will sign Kearse to be the RDE and if he is franchised we will send the Bailey pick to the Titans. However if we dont sign Kearse we could trade down and aquire more picks and better value for a D-line player due to the fact that the class is not strong at all this year .

4) Rod Gardner will be traded for a second and possibly later round picks and we can draft d-line help in round 2 .

[Joe7]

Great 28, apparently you have not been paying attention, all QBs are now throwing Champ's directon, as he gets burned on a regular basis. He can still tackle, but he seems to have forgotten how to cover in direct proportion as to how his mind became obsessed with money starting in training camp. He has become, in my opinion, an average cornerback, certainly not anywhere NEAR deserving of the ridiculous money we offered him. I promise you, that offer is NO LONGER on the table and he will get nowhere near that much with any other teams out there. This reality will set in at some point, whereupon he will probably start playing better again. Just not with the 'Skins. I hope he's out of here next year, and I really don't care if we only get 1 first round pick for him, as long as he doesn't count against our cap next year. Good riddance, Chump! Don't let the door hit you on the way out. :moon:

[Bang]

I haven't seen a QB yet this year think twice about throwing on Champ. Not one.

In fact, we've seen some pretty average shmoes throw directly AT him with the game on the line in the fourth quarter. (Fiedler, DelHomme, and now Brooks to name a few.)

We've seen teams throw the deep ball on him knowing that if they underthrow it just a little, he can't adjust, and either gets beat or commits PI.

And they do it again and again.

He hasn't had a good year, no matter how rosy anyone wants to paint it. In fact, he's had a pretty piss poor year, when you get right down to it.

If he wants out of town, like he seems to be indicating, then that's just the way it is. Adios, muchachos, get us a first round pick bare minimum.

~Bang

[Gamebreaker]

I don't want to hear that "I don't care" crap when he's playing like a Pro Bowler again for someone else, and his replacement here is getting burned all over the place.

Oh, that's right. Champ shadows the top WR, I guess that'll be Smoot's job now. Too bad Smoot couldn't handle it last season. He was just covering #1 WRs when they came to his side of the field.

[Prosperity]

Originally posted by bubba9497

Because Champ turned down the contract offfer many have turned against him and been overly critical of his play. There hasn't been too many if any CB who has had better success each week as Champ. He has played hurt, and made many big plays. He has been burned a couple times this year... alot maybe for him, but by far less than any other starting CB in this league, plus he is one of the few CB that come up on running plays and lays a hit.

We need to keep Champ, or it will be another Redskin going somewhere else, and everybody crying later "why did we let him go"

Last year it was Smoot, this year Champ.... we need to keep both.

you could not be more wrong (except your half right we do need to keep Smoot)

[bulldog]

Bailey is not asking merely for top corner money.

He is asking to be paid the second highest salary for a defensive player in the NFL.

I don't think he has made that kind of impact in either 2002 or 2003, at least not on a consistent basis.

Champ is a fine player. But he makes himself look foolish when he starts comparing himself to the greats of the game and then commits 2 pass interference penalties vs. the Saints and misses critical open field tackles the week before vs. the Dolphins.

The Redskins will suffer if they let Bailey go and DO NOTHING to upgrade the corner spot.

However, if the Skins retain Smoot and then sign one of a number of above average cover corners in the free agent market, the team can trade Bailey and use the bonus picks to be able to lay the foundation for a defensive line that makes a solid backfield hold up, even against the best receivers.

Are you going to tell me that Brian Kelly and Ronde Barber are such great players?

Tampa's front seven makes their defense what it is.

They survived the departure of Donnie Abraham, Damien Robinson and Dexter Jackson and have done just fine.

[GSF]

Actually Bulldog, Tampa's defense hasn't been so stellar as of late, but I agree with the point your making. I think it's time for Champ to move on. He's been through way too much BS with the Skins and doesn't seem to want to be here. He's mostly played well this year, but not at the level he wants to be paid for. Send him packin, pick up a solid vet, and use his money to solidify the Dline. I'm sure Champ will light it up wherever he winds up, but it's not going to be with the Skins.

[panel]

we already need another corner, so if we get rid of Baily, we will need two more, and one of them needs to be a number one corner.

[panel]

And on another note, Smoot is awsome, but He isn't a number one, If he had to cover a Guy like Moss, he could get beat Deep, up high, and I wouldn't trust him to take down any big receiver, he would get bulled over, same with hime helping in on the run.

[NVskinsfan]

Get a 1st and 3rd plus Rogers to go with Russell....then draft a speed DE and Mccallister as the FA DB

[bulldog]

Bailey isn't going to shut Moss or Owens or Holt down either

what is going to shut down these receivers is a COMBINATION of a pass rush AND good coverage.

I think the Redskins can find a GOOD cover corner in free agency this year to match with Smoot to give the team a credible presence in the backfield.

You put that with a major offseason investment on the DL and I think you are going to see a much better overall defense in 2004.

let's remember that the skins have won one playoff game in 5 years with Bailey on the roster.

if it was as simple as keeping Bailey and finding totally unsung players to surround him the Skins would be a lot further along then than are.

[Lavarleap56]

Agree with you completly Bulldog

[Gamebreaker]

You can't objectively look at Champ's performance and in the same sentence say he gave up that second pass interference call. That was obviously a blown call on the ref. There was nothing Champ could do in that situation.

By the way, Champ has already shut Owens down, even with the lack of pass rush to help. I can't recall how well he played in 2000 when matched up against Holt.

[xanathos19]

Originally posted by panel

we already need another corner, so if we get rid of Baily, we will need two more, and one of them needs to be a number one corner.

I agree completely...Smoot isn't going to be a #1, and how many #1 corners are there going to be in free agency? It doesn't look like Champ is going to budge with his $20 mil price tag, but can we really replace him, when we're already struggling at CB depth?

[Lavarleap56]

Better D-line that will put pressure on the qb and force quick decisions and a bad pass is what we need . If we can overhaul the d-line and keep Champ im O.K with that as long as his contract doesnt screw us when it comes to Ramsey and Arrington etc.

Champ will be a Excellent corner if we had a good D-line but we dont and we need to rebuild it now. Champ wants to be paid like one of the best defensive players in the league right now. We are not one good d-lineman away from fixing the problem so the smart play would be instead of giving Champ a 20 million dollar bonus spread it out amongst 2 lineman and a corner . Everybody things if we draft a d-lineman in the first it is going to make the line great it wont happen what if we get a Courtney Brown ?? we will be in the same position with Champs huge contract.

The F.O. will not draft a D-lineman in the first wont happen i will bet anything in the world if we trade Champ and get a extra first round pick maybe then they will or they will use the extra first as bait for Jevon Kearse since he will be franchised. In the first round we will go Safety and if we keep the additional second pick TE,RB,DE,OLB.