WAPO:Why did Trump win? New research by Democrats offers a worrisome answer.

[skinsmarydu]

12 minutes ago, daveakl said:

The dems didn't lose the national election because their candidate was to close to the middle or because of her "scandals". The dems lost because Trump promised he would bring back manufacturing and mining jobs while Hillary didn't. 

 

And he can't bring back either of those industries.  His voters were too stupid to know that. 

She didn't make promises she couldn't keep...and that made her a bad choice?  It boggles the mind.

[daveakl]

7 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

And he can't bring back either of those industries.  His voters were too stupid to know that. 

She didn't make promises she couldn't keep...and that made her a bad choice?  It boggles the mind.

Which would you rather hear:

 

"Your way of life is invalid now.  Everything you know, learned, believe, and have trained for is no longer useful.  If you want to be part of this new world you need to become smarter, better skilled, and play by different rules"

 

or

 

"The Democrats have ruined America and all of our values.  Vote for me and I will bring back everything you know and love."

[skinsmarydu]

LOL...I don't think she was that harsh, but she didn't sugar-coat **** and lie. 

I've always said I'd trust a thief more than a liar...because at least you can watch a thief.

[RedskinsFan44]

The world is changing and we need to adapt to that change.

 

Or

 

Let's go back to a fantasy of what America used to be.

 

Plus **** the liberals, it's all their fault.

[Elessar78]

9 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

The world is changing and we need to adapt to that change.

 

Or

 

Let's go back to a fantasy of what America used to be.

 

Plus **** the liberals, it's all their fault.

**** the Preservatives!

[Destino]

37 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

The world is changing and we need to adapt to that change.

 

Or

 

Let's go back to a fantasy of what America used to be.

 

Plus **** the liberals, it's all their fault.

 

The world is changing.  There are, however, more ways to adapt to that change than raising taxes and increasing regulations on evil corporations.  There are options greater than shrugging our shoulders at the unemployed and lecturing them on progress. 

 

We should start by avoiding lumping actual progress in with changes that are being driven mostly by the imperative to shift an ever increasing percentage of wealth upwards.  Actual advancement is a human ideal worth supporting, some executive managing to justify another pay increase because he found a private prison or a third world country that can build his widgets for less is not.  

[daveakl]

36 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

The world is changing and we need to adapt to that change.

 

Or

 

Let's go back to a fantasy of what America used to be.

 

Plus **** the liberals, it's all their fault.

Yes. The world is changing and because of everyone else you need to also.

 

Or

 

America was #1 in everything before we went all global and worried about the feelings of non Americans. Let's get back to our roots and make America great again.

[RedskinsFan44]

Build that wall! Lock her up! Grab that ****!

 

America has lost its mind. The "conservatives" who formed the core of Trump's support were willing to sell out on any standard of conduct to stick a finger in the eye of Democrats. Yeah Trump conned some blue collar workers but no way he wins without people selling out for team.

1 minute ago, daveakl said:

Yes. The world is changing and because of everyone else you need to also.

 

Or

 

America was #1 in everything before we went all global and worried about the feelings of non Americans. Let's get back to our roots and make America great again.

We became # 1 when we went global.

[skinsmarydu]

19 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

The world is changing, but there are more ways to adapt to that change than raising taxes and increasing regulations on evil corporations, and telling the unemployed that it's the worlds fault.  

More change in the world costs more money.

Regulations keep air and water safe...sometimes...but not in poor places where employment in manufacturing (cough, Flint MI) has gone away and the jobs that upheld the tax structure will not come back. 

 

I know, it's a roundabout, and hard to keep up with. 

[TimmySmith]

Simply put, the working middle class was left for dead under Obama.  Trump knew this and targeted them.  He campaigned exclusively in areas forgotten by the Democrats. In other words, he ran a real campaign. 

[Elessar78]

2 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

Simply put, the working middle class was left for dead under Obama.  Trump knew this and targeted them.  He campaigned exclusively in areas forgotten by the Democrats. In other words, he ran a real campaign. 

That's one way to look at it. Another one is that middle class has been left for dead starting in the 70s. MC wages have been largely stagnant for decades.

[TimmySmith]

3 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

That's one way to look at it. Another one is that middle class has been left for dead starting in the 70s. MC wages have been largely stagnant for decades.

Won't argue. But the ACA really hurt them and the lack of jobs in the rust belt states left them looking for someone willing offer help.  Trump's campaign targeted this bloc almost exclusively. 

[daveakl]

1 hour ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

Build that wall! Lock her up! Grab that ****!

 

America has lost its mind. The "conservatives" who formed the core of Trump's support were willing to sell out on any standard of conduct to stick a finger in the eye of Democrats. Yeah Trump conned some blue collar workers but no way he wins without people selling out for team.

We became # 1 when we went global.

Explain that to those that fell way behind when that happened.

 

1 hour ago, skinsmarydu said:

More change in the world costs more money.

Regulations keep air and water safe...sometimes...but not in poor places where employment in manufacturing (cough, Flint MI) has gone away and the jobs that upheld the tax structure will not come back. 

 

I know, it's a roundabout, and hard to keep up with. 

Clean air and water means squat when you are unemployed and poor.

1 hour ago, Elessar78 said:

That's one way to look at it. Another one is that middle class has been left for dead starting in the 70s. MC wages have been largely stagnant for decades.

Very much true. 

[daveakl]

1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

Won't argue. But the ACA really hurt them and the lack of jobs in the rust belt states left them looking for someone willing offer help.  Trump's campaign targeted this bloc almost exclusively. 

I'm sure the ACA had some impact but it's not just that. 

 

Trump offers to roll things back to a time when a company didn't have regulations. They could pay a hard working man a fair salary and that man could put food on the table for his family. Once the EPA, political correctness, and immigrants came around the company had to pay for regulations, lawyers, and even outsourcing jobs to mexico.

 

Hard blue states are going to vote blue. Reds going to vote Red. There really are like 80-100 electoral votes in play each election and Trump went after the people in those states better then Hillary. 

[Gamebreaker]

19 hours ago, Destino said:

Both parties strongly favor the wealthy.  Trump favors them more strongly than most but he was smart enough to throw the working class a bone, even if it was entirely dishonest.  Democrats told them they should have gotten a college degree, mocked people without degrees as low education voters, and ridiculed Sander's voters as out of touch "bros."   Their positive message to the working class?  Job training (eventually).  That message, which is already a tough sell (lol), didn't benefit from Hillary Clinton's absolute lack of charisma.  Her terrible campaign which failed to spend enough time in key states also worked against her. 

 

We can call these voters dumb all we like, and if they believed Trump would champion the working class they are, but the bottom line here is that the democratic party came out of this looking like the real idiots.  The party of the working class, lost the working class... to a ridiculous New York billionaire that even Republicans didn't like.  

 

 

 I'm really sick of this demographic being called "the working class". It's insulting and implies PoC aren't working or at least attempting to work. Which I'm sure isn't also reinforced by the stereotypes by minorities as well. Nearly everyone who is middle or lower class in income is working, why do the MidWest and Rust Belt get to be called the worklng class? They are actually the majority of the people in this country on government assistance, welfare, and food stamps. They are the opposite of working class. 

[RedskinsFan44]

1 hour ago, daveakl said:

Explain that to those that fell way behind when that happened.

We went global after ww2.  Then we had those good paying union jobs with a pension, social security, Medicare, super high top tax rates, etc. Things have changed. A robot can do a lot of jobs people used too. Other countries now have the infrastructure to compete.  We can talk to almost anyone in the world real time.

 

None of this explains a willingness to vote for a horrible, unstable con man.  I understand why his con was desirable, not why it was believed.

 

Still think raw anger/fu was a central selling point.

[Bozo the kKklown]

23 hours ago, grego said:

 

Conflating those 2 is mistake, and a bit ironic if you tie that kind of thinking in with what I posted earlier. 

its not.

 

This country does not want to be real and call people racists, bigots, sexist, homophobes, etc. That is what it is.

 

Political correctness, from the right wing perspective, is that they can't make fun of homosexuals and say racist things, and say women have big knockers anymore. Its exactly the same but right wing people keep pretend otherwise, while the media refuses to actually say what it is.

20 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

 I'm really sick of this demographic being called "the working class". It's insulting and implies PoC aren't working or at least attempting to work. Which I'm sure isn't also reinforced by the stereotypes by minorities as well. Nearly everyone who is middle or lower class in income is working, why do the MidWest and Rust Belt get to be called the worklng class? They are actually the majority of the people in this country on government assistance, welfare, and food stamps. They are the opposite of working class. 

because those people are the real Americans.

[LD0506]

22 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Political correctness, from the right wing perspective, is that they can't make fun of homosexuals and say racist things, and say women have big knockers anymore. Its exactly the same but right wing people keep pretend otherwise, while the media refuses to actually say what it is.

 

While simultaneously reveling in some masturbatory fantasy about "limiting" the First Amendment and changing libel laws so no one can say anything mean about them.

 

I don't make the rules but I'll play the game hard if I gotta play. No more PC? Fine you festering pusbags, let's rock

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

21 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

While simultaneously reveling in some masturbatory fantasy about "limiting" the First Amendment and changing libel laws so no one can say anything mean about them.

 

I don't make the rules but I'll play the game hard if I gotta play. No more PC? Fine you festering pusbags, let's rock

 

they are the real snowflakes.

[Destino]

22 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

 I'm really sick of this demographic being called "the working class". It's insulting and implies PoC aren't working or at least attempting to work. Which I'm sure isn't also reinforced by the stereotypes by minorities as well. Nearly everyone who is middle or lower class in income is working, why do the MidWest and Rust Belt get to be called the worklng class? They are actually the majority of the people in this country on government assistance, welfare, and food stamps. They are the opposite of working class. 

Working class doesn't mean white people nor does it mean people in general who are employed.  It generally refers to people employed in manufacturing and factory work, which is why it's used so often in the rust belt.  But why let that stop us from changing things, what we feel matters most, what would you prefer the demographic be called?  

 

And this is a great example of how political correctness manages to inject racial accusations into everything.  

 

[DogofWar1]

13 minutes ago, Destino said:

Working class doesn't mean white people nor does it mean people in general who are employed.  It generally refers to people employed in manufacturing and factory work, which is why it's used so often in the rust belt.  But why let that stop us from changing things, what we feel matters most, what would you prefer the demographic be called?  

 

And this is a great example of how political correctness manages to inject racial accusations into everything.  

I think he has a point though.  How often do we see poor blacks in the city, or poor people in a non-ex-blue collar city generally, called the "working class?"  It's used pretty consistently in ex-blue collar towns/cities or in 2nd/3rd ring suburbs and rural locations.

 

Maybe it started as puffing language, but the inconsistent use across different groups of people who "work" suggests there's something else going on.

[Destino]

10 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I think he has a point though.  How often do we see poor blacks in the city, or poor people in a non-ex-blue collar city generally, called the "working class?"  It's used pretty consistently in ex-blue collar towns/cities or in 2nd/3rd ring suburbs and rural locations.

 

Maybe it started as puffing language, but the inconsistent use across different groups of people who "work" suggests there's something else going on.

Poor employed people are not the working class.  Those are the working poor.  A group most right wingers pretend do not exist, as hard working but still poor clashes with their bootstrap bull****.

[Gamebreaker]

25 minutes ago, Destino said:

Working class doesn't mean white people nor does it mean people in general who are employed.  It generally refers to people employed in manufacturing and factory work, which is why it's used so often in the rust belt.  But why let that stop us from changing things, what we feel matters most, what would you prefer the demographic be called?  

 

And this is a great example of how political correctness manages to inject racial accusations into everything.  

 

 

This has nothing to do with political correctness, but everything to do with stereotypes. Let's say I even remotely believe "the working class" term originated for manufacturing and factory workers. Who is the biggest demographic in terms of race that has those jobs? Must be a coincidence. And how is that even remotely close to defining these people? What exactly do they do that allows them to be considered working class, that teachers, firefighters, IT professionals, or customer service employees aren't doing? 

 

Not a damn thing.

 

 

[RedskinsFan44]

43 minutes ago, Destino said:

Poor employed people are not the working class.  Those are the working poor.  A group most right wingers pretend do not exist, as hard working but still poor clashes with their bootstrap bull****.

Another hypocrisy of the right is the notion that inner city poor people should take initiative and relocate while rust belt people should have jobs delivered to them.

 

Add: and the bootstrap bs gets levied against minorities while the rust belt poor got screwed by the elites.

[RedskinsFan44]

Again, this changes everything with regards to jobs: