The Gun Control Debate Thread

[Captain Wiggles]

The most likely suspect? 🤔

 

[tshile]

Weird there’s two of them. With serials filed off. And it’s just the lower receivers. Wrapped in plastic….

 

 

[China]

Can we at least require safety training?

 

Hunter charged for shooting neighbor in head while trying to shoot deer with handgun: Cops

 

A Boalsburg man is facing charges after he unintentionally shot a man in the head while trying to shoot a deer with a handgun from across a road, police say.

 

According to the State College Police Department, Michael Lloyd has been charged with recklessly endangering another person, shooting and injuring a human while hunting, unlawful shooting on or across a highway and propulsion of missiles onto a roadway.

 

Officers say they were called Dec. 4 to Lenape Lane for a man lying on the ground with a head wound.

 

When they arrived on scene, they say they found Lloyd and another man, who were both wearing orange hunting clothes, tending to the wounded man’s injury.

 

According to police, Lloyd was using a towel to keep the man’s bleeding under control.

 

Emergency Medical Services arrived to help, and once the man was in the ambulance, officials determined the injury looked like a gunshot wound to the top, front of his head.

 

Lloyd explained that he and his friend were returning home from hunting when they saw a deer on a hill, police say.

 

According to police, Lloyd said he stopped his truck at the bottom of his neighbor’s driveway, got out of the vehicle and shot two or three times.

 

Lloyd then drove home and began looking over his neighbor’s property to find the deer, but instead saw a dog in an orange hunting vest and his neighbor laying on the ground, investigators say.

 

Police say Lloyd told them that he always tries to be safe and was worried he had shot his neighbor.

 

Officers noted that Lloyd had an empty gun holster on his hip and Lloyd told them that he shot at the deer with his .45mm handgun which was now in his truck.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

4-year-old fatally shot himself in car while mom smoked pot with another adult in front seat: Louisiana authorities

 

A 4-year-old boy in Louisiana, sitting in the back of a car with two younger siblings, fatally shot himself in the forehead with a gun he found while his mother and another adult smoked marijuana in the front seat, authorities said.

 

An autopsy Monday found that Jarion Walker’s gunshot wound was self-inflicted, Jefferson Parish Sheriff Joseph Lopinto said at a news conference late Monday, The Times-Picayune/The New Orleans Advocate reported.

 

“It was a contact wound to the forehead, right above the right eyebrow,” Jefferson Parish Coroner Gerry Cvitanovich said.

 

The shooting happened about 10:45 p.m. Saturday in the city of Westwego, a suburb of New Orleans. Jarion was sitting in the back seat with two siblings age 22 months and about 1, authorities said.

 

The adults, who admitted to smoking marijuana at the time, said they heard the shot, Lopinto said.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

Heard the shot?  The kid was in the back seat and they were in the front.  How could they not have heard the shot?

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[tshile]

Out at 10:30 at night with a 4 year old a 22 month old and a 1 year old, smoking pot. 
 

Just garbage parents. 

[China]

One person reported dead as authorities search for man who opened fire at Washington state supermarket, officials say

 

One person was killed and another was injured in a shooting at a grocery store in the southern Washington city of Richland, authorities said Monday.

 

Richland Police Cmdr. Chris Lee said the suspect and the man who died had a conversation before the shooting inside the Fred Meyer store but it was not known what was said.

Police have interacted with the suspected shooter before but don't know whether he knew the deceased victim, according to Lee.

A store employee was injured in the shooting and is in critical condition.

After the suspect opened fire with a handgun around 11 a.m. (2 p.m. ET), he fled, but it was not clear whether the person was on foot or driving, Lee said.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Sounds like they need to modify the laws so there is some clarity about what is legal and what is not:

 

An Amish farmer’s 600 guns were seized. It’s unclear if he broke the law.

 

Hand-painted signs in Amish country often advertise fresh eggs, shoofly pies, or handmade quilts, but the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is trying to determine whether one Lancaster County farmer’s sizable gun collection was also his side hustle.

 

An ATF spokesperson said agents seized evidence during an “enforcement operation” on Jan. 12 at the Cattail Foundry in Lea**** Township, Lancaster County, but declined to comment further. Two sources familiar with the investigation said approximately 600 firearms were seized during the operation.

 

On Wednesday morning, farm owner Reuben King declined to comment on the matter at his home, but he did talk to Lancaster Online several weeks ago. King told the news outlet he was a dairy farmer, first and foremost, but admitted selling “some” firearms from his personal collection to fellow Amish and a few non-Amish, too.

 

Sources said handguns were among the weapons taken by ATF. King told Lancaster Online he mostly sold long guns, for hunting.

 

“I was not dealing in handguns, positively not,” King said last month.

 

The ATF said the investigation is ongoing but no charges have been filed. King told The Inquirer he hadn’t hired an attorney.

 

The Amish, generally, do not pose for photographs, and therefore, most don’t get the photo IDs needed to purchase firearms from licensed gun shops. Hunting rifles and shotguns, known as “long guns,” can be sold privately between two parties without a background check or photo ID.

 

Joshua Prince, a Pennsylvania attorney who specializes in firearms law, said the ATF operation at King’s farm could lead investigators into a murky area. It’s not clear, he said, how many firearms an individual would have to sell in order for that person to be considered a firearms dealer. The ATF’s own website said licenses are required for individuals who “repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit” but not for the “occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection.”

 

“It’s so vague, and that’s going to be the government’s biggest hurdle,” Prince said. “It could turn out that they just say ‘Listen, don’t do this again.’ ”

 

Click on the link for the full article

[TheGreatBuzz]

I have an issue with them seizing property before they are even sure something wrong was being done.

[China]

 

[tshile]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:32 AM, The Almighty Buzz said:

I have an issue with them seizing property before they are even sure something wrong was being done.

absolutely. 
 

this could be anything… he could be running an unlicensed gun shop or he could just be an Amish dude that has 600 guns that has sold some
 

if this turns out to be like dude had 500+ wood stock bolt action rifles and was swapping them with people and the sort, then this whole thing is bogus and shame on the atf for not knowing what they’re doing better. 
 

I’d prefer to think our law enforcement wouldn’t go to this step unless they felt they had built a case that can stand up in court. 
 

but hard to have faith lately. 

[China]

 

[China]

This is the gun control legislation we need.  What's next, free handguns to all students when they turn 10?

 

Bill would bring NRA gun safety classes into all Arizona schools

 

A Republican bill that would require a National Rifle Association gun safety course for Arizona middle- and high school students passed out of committee Monday evening. 

 

The measure would require all Arizona schools to teach students about firearms safety at least once between sixth grade and the end of high school.

 

House Bill 2448 by Rep. Quang Nguyen, R-Prescott Valley, would require schools to participate in the Arizona Gun Safety Program which Nguyen said would help prevent accidental gun deaths in children. The bill requires instruction only on gun safety, and the legislation prevents instruction that would teach children how to fire guns or hunt.

 

“This bill is not about bringing firearms into school,” Nguyen told the House Military Affairs and Public Safety Committee. Nguyen works as a volunteer coach for the Arizona Scorpions Junior High-Power Rifle team and also serves as President of the Arizona State Rifle and Pistol Association. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

How about we teach the adults first, so that the guns stay out of the hands of middle-schoolers unless they're learning to hunt.

[TheGreatBuzz]

15 minutes ago, China said:

This is the gun control legislation we need.  What's next, free handguns to all students when they turn 10?

 

Bill would bring NRA gun safety classes into all Arizona schools

 

A Republican bill that would require a National Rifle Association gun safety course for Arizona middle- and high school students passed out of committee Monday evening. 

 

The measure would require all Arizona schools to teach students about firearms safety at least once between sixth grade and the end of high school.

 

House Bill 2448 by Rep. Quang Nguyen, R-Prescott Valley, would require schools to participate in the Arizona Gun Safety Program which Nguyen said would help prevent accidental gun deaths in children. The bill requires instruction only on gun safety, and the legislation prevents instruction that would teach children how to fire guns or hunt.

 

“This bill is not about bringing firearms into school,” Nguyen told the House Military Affairs and Public Safety Committee. Nguyen works as a volunteer coach for the Arizona Scorpions Junior High-Power Rifle team and also serves as President of the Arizona State Rifle and Pistol Association. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

How about we teach the adults first, so that the guns stay out of the hands of middle-schoolers unless they're learning to hunt.

While there are certainly more that can be done, I actually like this proposal.  

[tshile]

I believe I’ve been pushing that idea for a while. 
 

If guns are going to be this pervasive in our culture you might as well teach gun safety

 

 

might put a dent in the 10 year old kills little sister stories. 

[Larry]

1). How many of those 10 year olds who shot their sister picked up a loaded gun that was left lying around by a grownup who passed a gun safety class?  
 

2). Wonder how these same people feel about the same students being told how to put on a condom?  

[tshile]

1) doesn’t matter. We get it. It’s so low on the list of things that could help you and others gotta try hard to get something possibly clever in

 

2) yeah man teach them how to put on a condom. Great point you got there. 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

I wonder what the opinions in here would be if the Dems proposed it and the GOP was blocking it?

[bearrock]

As long as kids aren't being taught how to shoot and as long as parents can opt out (which I assume is the case), what's the problem with teaching  gun safety in schools?

[TheGreatBuzz]

24 minutes ago, bearrock said:

As long as kids aren't being taught how to shoot and as long as parents can opt out (which I assume is the case), what's the problem with teaching  gun safety in schools?

 

I’m not sure parents should be allowed to opt out.  *I don’t think they should be able to opt out of sex ed either.*

[Larry]

21 minutes ago, bearrock said:

As long as kids aren't being taught how to shoot and as long as parents can opt out (which I assume is the case), what's the problem with teaching  gun safety in schools?

Eh. I can certainly see the reasoning that more education is better than less. Never been a fan of "I don't think people should know that."  
 

At least, as long as what's being taught is actually true. I'm - let's say skeptical - that that's what intended, here. 

[tshile]

59 minutes ago, bearrock said:

As long as kids aren't being taught how to shoot and as long as parents can opt out (which I assume is the case), what's the problem with teaching  gun safety in schools?

I don’t really like it becoming a ideology thing. Either teaching gun safety in school is important, or it’s not. I’m not against arguing that it is, and if the people arguing it isn’t win then that’s ok too. 
 

but this opt out stuff is putting kids in another position of being a political pawn for their parents and I’m rather sick of it (referring to mask mandate stuff)

 

I view gun safety the same way I view swimming:

doesn’t matter if you don’t have a pool and don’t go to lakes/beaches. At some point your child will be around someone else at water and when that happens you want your child to know how to swim and understand basic water safety (I say this as someone who reads about people dying at our lake multiple times a summer, always because they do dumb ****, and it’s always a kid that dies)

 

 

I get some people find guns so reprehensible they would have a **** fit if they found out their kid had to take a gun safety class. 
 

i think they’re making a mistake in thinking it’s a good idea to keep their children away from that, when they live in a country where guns are everywhere. 
 

but either way is fine. I don’t need the school to teach my children, they’ll get it from me and their grandfathers, at a minimum. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 minutes ago, tshile said:

but either way is fine. I don’t need the school to teach my children

 

But do you need the school to teach it to that other kid that has a sleepover that your kid will attend and the parent has guns?  Much like vaccines, it is about more than just your household.

[tshile]

1 minute ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

But do you need the school to teach it to that other kid that has a sleepover that your kid will attend and the parent has guns?  Much like vaccines, it is about more than just your household.

Yeah I know. I said it condescendingly more than anything 

 

I work in what I can control

 

if no one else thinks teaching gun safety in the country that seems to have the worst issue with guns, I don’t know what to tell you. 
 

I mean why not. It’s not like we’ve tried any other idea ever, why start trying any now.  

[China]

44 minutes ago, tshile said:

I don’t really like it becoming a ideology thing. Either teaching gun safety in school is important, or it’s not. I’m not against arguing that it is, and if the people arguing it isn’t win then that’s ok too. 
 

but this opt out stuff is putting kids in another position of being a political pawn for their parents and I’m rather sick of it (referring to mask mandate stuff)

 

I view gun safety the same way I view swimming:

doesn’t matter if you don’t have a pool and don’t go to lakes/beaches. At some point your child will be around someone else at water and when that happens you want your child to know how to swim and understand basic water safety (I say this as someone who reads about people dying at our lake multiple times a summer, always because they do dumb ****, and it’s always a kid that dies)

 

 

I get some people find guns so reprehensible they would have a **** fit if they found out their kid had to take a gun safety class. 
 

i think they’re making a mistake in thinking it’s a good idea to keep their children away from that, when they live in a country where guns are everywhere. 
 

but either way is fine. I don’t need the school to teach my children, they’ll get it from me and their grandfathers, at a minimum. 

 

I think the swimming analogy is good.  I agree learning how to swim is important and made sure my kids know how to swim.  But that's a sport and teaching swimming isn't a requirement in schools, although could save a child's life.  Shooting/guns can be considered a sport and knowing how to properly use them could save lives, but should it be taught in schools, or like swimming should it be something that parents decide to teach their kids?  I wouldn't be upset if my kids were taught gun safety in school as that would be more knowledge and good information to have, but I don't think it should be mandatory.  Although I do think gun safety training (and licensing) should be a mandatory requirement for owning a gun, much as it is for a car.