The Gun Control Debate Thread

[Burgold]

5 hours ago, China said:

Students nationwide walk out of classes to protest inaction on guns by government

 

Outraged by the inaction of lawmakers on gun violence, students across the country held walkouts on Thursday in the wake of a brutal massacre in Uvalde, Texas, where 19 children and two teachers were gunned down at an elementary school. 

 

From Meridian High School in Virginia to El Camino Real Charter High School in California, students across the country took part in walkouts to demand gun control measures, according to social media reports and local news outlets. 

 

Meanwhile in Rhode Island, students from several schools in Providence laid down for three minutes outside the Rhode Island State House, according to a tweet from state Sen. Tiara Mack (D). 

 

At Oxford High School in Michigan, over 100 students walked out of class on Thursday, the Detroit Free Press reported. The school was the site of its own deadly shooting on Nov. 30, where four students were killed. 

 

In Buffalo, Minn., students at Buffalo High School took part in another walkout on Thursday, WCCO, a local CBS affiliate, reported. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

Kids are still young, naive and not yet disillusioned

 

I support the protests, but since Republicans are anti-education and want their kids as stupid as possible they are probably delighted when kids miss a day of school.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

21 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I support the protests, but since Republicans are anti-education and want their kids as stupid as possible they are probably delighted when kids miss a day of school.

 

I hate politics and I respect you, but that comment is beneath you.  I identify as democrat, but live in a hardcore republican state.  They want solutions, too.  What are your ideas?  All of our ideas?  Why must we attack each other with insults (Democrats/Republicans?).  Focus that energy on hypothetical solutions, is my thought.

Edited May 28, 2022 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[skinsmarydu]

There's only one company in the US that makes caskets for children, Cherokee Caskets.  They come in 4 sizes and 11 colors. 

I wish I didn't know this. 

[Burgold]

17 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

I hate politics and I respect you, but that comment is beneath you.  I identify as democrat, but live in a hardcore republican state.  They want solutions, too.  What are your ideas?  All of our ideas?  Why must we attack each other with insults (Democrats/Republicans?).  Focus that energy on hypothetical solutions, is my thought.

Here’s the thing. I’m not joking here. Look at their policies, rhetoric, and most importantly their actions. Republicans are anti-teacher and anti education. 
 

They do want an uneducated and uninformed public. They want to ban books, eliminate whole areas of scientific and historical teaching. They want to white wash curriculums. They purchase history books that falsify history to a degree that would make Stalin proud. Hell, they’re anti-Mr. Rogers and anti-Sesame Street. 

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

17 minutes ago, GoCommiesGo said:

The idea is to vet someone enough that you remove a large portion of the risk pool. You’re not going to solve / stop everything but you put a hard check in place. 
 

it removes the ability for someone to go pickup same day firearms and forces them to at least interact with the system. Currently most gun stores only have to run a simple background check through the FBI NICS system and ad long as you don’t have a criminal record your free to go same day. 
 

Licensing at least will put a set of requirements in place such as mandatory safety classes, comprehensive background check and interaction with a LEO. 
 

just my two cents. 

 

We're on the same page.

 

Like Burr said, it needs to be like getting a license to fly commercial jets.

 

I'd go even further - you get a license to own an arsenal once you are the equivilant to an air force pilot flying a fighter.

 

Even further, a Secret Service Agent armed next to the President.  They have never capped the President.

 

How are we sure they won't????

 

Impliment that type of thing in to society.

Edited May 28, 2022 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[Burgold]

34 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

On the scale of mass shootings though, the instances of a kid stealing their parent's car isn't a car accident....it's a mass shooting.

 

How do you scan a person for being able to lock their combat gear away 100% of the time?

That’s a fair question. One of the biggest reasons I’m pro gun control is that I think there are too many irresponsible or lazy people. 
 

I agree licensing won’t eliminate every problem or risk, but that’s why we should develop and utilize and enforce many strategies simultaneously. That goes from increasing mental health funding, testing, and services to ideas far up the ladder. 

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Here’s the thing. I’m not joking here. Look at their policies, rhetoric, and most importantly their actions. Republicans are anti-teacher and anti education. 
 

They do want an uneducated and uninformed public. They want to ban books, eliminate whole areas of scientific and historical teaching. They want to white wash curriculums. They purchase history books that falsify history to a degree that would make Stalin proud. Hell, they’re anti-Mr. Rogers and anti-Sesame Street. 

 

"They"

 

We are all a part of the United States of America.

 

I hate this division.  The gap keeps widening because of the flood of statements like this...from BOTH SIDES.

 

I am an immigrant from Maryland, where I sought salvation in Oklahoma.

 

Salvation.

 

These people aren't that bad.  You're listening to the extremists.  There are extremists on the left too.  The same level of insults could be thrown their way too.

 

Who cares?  Let's brainstorm a solution instead of wasting words.

[Burgold]

Name me one education proposal or action by Republicans that has not been geared towards shrinking funding or limiting schools ability to teach?

 

in broadest strokes, I agree with you that division is bad, but it’s beyond time to stop pretending all issues are a “both sides” issue. 
 

Republicans are anti gun control. They are anti gun debate. Republicans are anti education. 
 

Maybe you can find an individual who isn’t, but if you examine their policies and actions at a federal and local level it’s true. There is a reason that red states rank so poorly academically. It’s malign neglect and active effort. 
 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-school-rankings-by-state

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

That’s a fair question. One of the biggest reasons I’m pro gun control is that I think there are too many irresponsible or lazy people. 
 

I agree licensing won’t eliminate every problem or risk, but that’s why we should develop and utilize and enforce many strategies simultaneously. That goes from increasing mental health funding, testing, and services to ideas far up the ladder. 

 

How would you control guns?

 

It would cause a civil conflict, that at best, would have little towns giving up their guns, at best.

 

The writing is on the wall.

 

This country is locked and loaded, and then some.

 

You'd need a Nazi Germany style Jewish hunt, in order to find all the guns.

 

Ain't happenin.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

How would you control guns?

 

It would cause a civil conflict, that at best, would have little towns giving up their guns, at best.

 

The writing is on the wall.

 

This country is locked and loaded, and then some.

 

You'd need a Nazi Germany style Jewish hunt, in order to find all the guns.

 

Ain't happenin.

Control the Ammo…. 

[The 12th Commandment]

Seems to me we're going to have to have a constitutional convention and change/modify the 2nd.  Particularly when it's interpretation, and how licensing, insurance and registration might be handled considering it, is down to the current Supreme Court.  What more is it going to take for that to happen, Lord only knows.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Just now, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Control the Ammo…. 

 

The ammo is already there.  You cut off the supply...you'll get people angry enough to carve a little space out for an ammo depot.  Via the ammo they have.

 

My point is, this all sounds like it leads to a civil conflict.  And I'd like to avoid that.

[The 12th Commandment]

9 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

How would you control guns?

 

It would cause a civil conflict, that at best, would have little towns giving up their guns, at best.

 

The writing is on the wall.

 

This country is locked and loaded, and then some.

 

You'd need a Nazi Germany style Jewish hunt, in order to find all the guns.

 

Ain't happenin.

Instant results aren't a possibility, I don't believe.  But you have to start somewhere (guns are so pervasive) and hopefully in 50 years, or however long it takes to slowly remove guns from the scene, you see progress.  

Edited May 28, 2022 by The 12th Commandment

[Burgold]

3 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

How would you control guns?

 

It would cause a civil conflict, that at best, would have little towns giving up their guns, at best.

 

The writing is on the wall.

 

This country is locked and loaded, and then some.

 

You'd need a Nazi Germany style Jewish hunt, in order to find all the guns.

 

Ain't happenin.

I think you may be right, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. The first step is probably to try to change the narrative. Change hearts before you change laws. 
 

The intellectual appeal doesn’t seem to work. The reality that every other country does magnitudes better than we do at protecting families and lives doesn’t seem to make a dent. So, the first question is how do we make people ask different questions and how do we make people unwilling to even begin a discussion start to engage in a real conversation. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

6 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

The ammo is already there.  You cut off the supply...you'll get people angry enough to carve a little space out for an ammo depot.  Via the ammo they have.

 

My point is, this all sounds like it leads to a civil conflict.  And I'd like to avoid that.

I don’t think so. The vast majority of people aren’t going to take up arms, that’s for sure. 

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I don’t think so. The vast majority of people aren’t going to take up arms, that’s for sure. 

 

I hear you all.

 

I live in northeastern Oklahoma, perhaps the most gentrified portion.  Give or take.

 

Dudes be having ARs in the bed of their trucks, casual.  Talking about, "yeah, try taking this from me".

Edited May 28, 2022 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[CousinsCowgirl84]

9 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

I hear you all.

 

I live in northeastern Oklahoma, perhaps the most gentrified portion.  Give or take.

 

Dudes be having ARs in the bed of their trucks, casual.  Talking about, "yeah, try taking this from me".

People talk a lot of ****. When it comes down to it and have to risk their actual freedom they tend to be a lot less enthused to act. But again, no need to take the gun. Just make resupplying the ammo very difficult.

 

Then, the relatively small number of people who decide to get violent about it will be dealt with. Without ammo it’s not like they can sustain the fight.
 

Also, the fight would be with the police and military instead of elementary students and rave goers as it is now. I’d suggest that is a much better scenerio than what we have now.

Edited May 28, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84

[The 12th Commandment]

4 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

I hear you all.

 

I live in northeastern Oklahoma, perhaps the most gentrified portion.  Give or take.

 

Dudes be having ARs in the bed of their trucks, casual.  Talking about, "yeah, try taking this from me".

I live in a moderately liberal part of New Mexico and it's the same thing.  One of things I think we need to work towards is finding a way to place more of the responsibility, legally and financially, on gun owners. 

 

Again though, unless we modify the second or get a new SCOTUS it's going to be a tough slog. 

 

Another thing that's really relevant is convincing people that modify the second doesn't equate to take away everyone's guns.  Another hard sell, when Fox etal is continually preaching the socialist, liberal takeover America gospel.

 

So many issues we got.  It's disheartening to say the least.

[Larry]

Yes, folks. Getting rid of all guns, instantly, isn't going to happen. We get it. 
 

But you know what does happen, when you ban the semiauto weapons?  
 

They instantly become a lot harder for casual buyers to find. 
 

Bubba can hide his AR in the barn. But he won't be listing it on eBay. People like this killer won't be able to walk into a commercial business on his 18th birthday and walk out the same day. 

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

People talk a lot of ****. When it comes down to it and have to risk there actual freedom they tend to be a lot les enthused to act.

 

The relatively small number of people who decide to get violent about it will be dealt with. Without ammo it’s not like they can sustain the fight.
 

The fight would be with the police and military instead of elementary students and rave goers as it is now. I’d suggest that is a much better scenerio than what we have now.

 

SO!

 

You think a civil conflict with thousands dead, is a much better scenario????  It could be another civil war.

1 minute ago, Larry said:

Yes, folks. Getting rid of all guns, instantly, isn't going to happen. We get it. 
 

But you know what does happen, when you ban the semiauto weapons?  
 

They instantly become a lot harder for casual buyers to find. 
 

Bubba can hide his AR in the barn. But he won't be listing it on eBay. People like this killer won't be able to walk into a commercial business on his 18th birthday and walk out the same day. 

 

They aren't Bubba.  They are John and Chris who have 20 different kinds of assault rifles and 10,000 rounds of ammo.  And they are former military.  Some - special forces.

[Going Commando]

If you own an AR and the weapon gets banned what are your options?  Keep it and hide it and never be able to use it without risking serious charges?  Decide to go on a murdering spree out of spite that will end in the police killing you?  Or do you think almost everyone would eventually just end up selling it in the buy back program?

 

Make that gun and others like it a liability and you will absolutely change it's pervasiveness in American households.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

If you own an AR and the weapon gets banned what are your options?  Keep it and hide it and never be able to use it without risking serious charges?  Decide to go on a murdering spree out of spite that will end in the police killing you?  Or do you think almost everyone would eventually just end up selling it in the buy back program?

 

Make that gun and others like it a liability and you will absolutely change it's pervasiveness in American households.

Again, the writing is on the wall.  "Making guns" is an afterthought.  They are out there like a ****roach outbreak through an abandoned restaurant at full-stock.

 

Now what do you do?

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

SO!

 

You think a civil conflict with thousands dead, is a much better scenario????  It could be another civil war.

 

I think that's the likeliest scenario. There are just far too many paranoid, ignorant, and angry people out there who are already on edge about government encroachment. Compounding this are the multiple outlets that stoke their anger on a 24 hour basis. 

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

1 minute ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I think that's the likeliest scenario. There are just far too many paranoid, ignorant, and angry people out there who are already on edge about government encroachment. Compounding this are the multiple outlets that stoke their anger on a 24 hour basis. 

 

I almost think the freedom of press is as much to blame.

 

Founding fathers never forsaw this.

 

Why we treat them like people treat religion, is absurd

 

We should never hurt each other.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

Again, the writing is on the wall.  "Making guns" is an afterthought.  They are out there like a ****roach outbreak through an abandoned restaurant at full-stock.

 

Now what do you do?

 

I ban the gun, make possession of it a serious crime where the penalties would be years in prison and permanent loss of rights to own any firearms, and institute an open ended buy back program where people can turn them in at any point for fair value after the ban with no questions asked.