NoCalMike Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I agree with the sentiment that whenever we bring in top talent it seems like their game eventually levels off to about what the team overall is like. Right now Jackson is doing pretty much everything we signed him for and it is good for a nice highlight reel play per game, but it isn't translating into wins. What are the chances he puts up nice stats for two seasons here and is gone in FA like all the rest, only to have a monster remaining career on a team that actually wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradboyd80 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Right now, it's impossible to hold a "non-qb discussion" about why our offense stinks. I was sincerely hoping Cousins would play well and win us a few games (I am a Skins fan first and foremost). But nine (9!) turnovers in just 4 and a half games is unacceptable. I'd say that's a pretty significant reason why the offense is stinking. The blocking is definitely bad, but its also nothing more than an excuse for poor decisions (and that goes for RG3 as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Exactly. People don't know what offense he runs???? He dinks and dunks then throws a bomb. That was what he did in Cinci. The whole premise of the thread is dumb based on his background. A good coach would adjust his offense to fit the players he has and not try to force them into a set system. I'm pretty sure Gruden could come up with some plays from a shotgun spread to utilize the speed of our WRs which also would open the middle of the field for some draw plays. Our RB who is good a breaking tackles would have open space, more Dbs at the 2nd level and less LBs. Not to mention the space it will open up for our Franchise QB when he needs to run for his life when the o line fails their assignments or the quick pass he can throw to a fast receiver in space. If the blocking holds up, we have speedy WRs all over the field. You force them to double Jackson or risk the best deep threat in the game in single coverage. Jackson single coverage outside is a pass I attempt everytime if the blocking allows it. If Jackson is doubled outside the seam is open and/or one of Garcon/Roberts is in single coverage in a matchup they should win. Then as a 4th option you cannot tell me whoever is on Moss or Reed wouldnt be a mismatch. It would be their 4th cover option with Jackson, Garcon, Roberts on the field. For us that would be Chase Minniefield on Moss/Reed. Put all 5 of them out there empty backfield and one of them should be able to win their matchup off the line for a quick pass. If its not man you find the soft spot in the zone and again have a WR with speed or Reed making a catch in space with an opportunity to run and make a play. We could run read option and play action fakes off the read option out of the Shotgun to freeze the defense even more. Griffin executed this offense well at Baylor, why wouldn't you utilize and mix it in here and there here? I guess it must not be this easy or else we would be doing it lol. Or maybe Im just Spurrier trying to have a nice easy game of pitch and catch with a line that cannot block. Im sure someone with more football knowledge than me will come poke holes in my thinking. We will have to wait and see, Griffin didn't get enough snaps to see what exactly Gruden had in store for him running the offense. I think the Houston game Gruden was just really conservative with it being his first game against a good defense. The damn laughable part is that his game plan would have worked if the team just executed basic football fundamentals like special teams blocking, not letting a WR beat you deep and not turning the ball over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Griffin isn't meant to run Gruden's style of offense, however if they were to create a sort of hybrid it would be absolutely impossible to stop. It would be unpredictable and fast-paced. Problem is it's reliant on a healthy QB. I have no doubt in mind that Griffin would excel in a Gruden-style offense with the talent he has at his disposal. I'm just hoping we get to see it at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knighthonor Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Today more than any other game so far I noticed that our offense is 98% "dink and dunk". Not many plays stretching the field which is what you have to have in place to be successful in this league. We have no running game which makes play action useless. We used to be able to lean on Morris, and now he can't even pick up more than 3 yards on a play. I don't think it's his fault. The only thing I can figure is that teams don't respect any other aspect of our offense other than the running game so they just key in on stopping it. So really there is not one thing our offense can do consistently in order to sustain drives. We have small stretches when we're moving the ball easily and then all of a sudden nothing works. Is it play calling? Lack of in game adjustments? I thought bringing in D-Jax would stretch defenses and open up more running lanes for Morris. Our offense basically looks exactly like it did when Zorn was head coach. Not a good start at all for Gruden.Can't leave QB out of this. RG3's running was a key factor to the team structure and success. The Non-QB adjustment they need as a new better Oline that can protect RG3 while passing and provide better lanes for him to run. Focus mainly on that.After the Oline problem is fixed, get new Defense coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wysknz1 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 3. Receivers are still dropping balls that should be caught. Yea, watch the c*wb*ys and denver etc and those receivers layout for the passes. romo and peyton and those guys don't always have the greatest passes but their guys sell out for their QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdawk20 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 its so easy to defend this passing offense at times. 8 man in the box and bump and run coverage. NilesPaul/Jackson can't handle bump and Garcon takes a while to beat it. I said before the season started that D-Jax is a very talented one-trick pony who will make the occasional great/exciting play but get consistently shut down by physical corners. We saw this in Philly for years. Believe me now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthsideDC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Dink and duck is west coast offense with most yards coming after the catch.. Why bring in Gruden if that's not what you want. Yep but people lost their minds week 1 when this is what they did against the Texans, How many of the big plays yesterday were short passes or screens that went for huge gains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradboyd80 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I said before the season started that D-Jax is a very talented one-trick pony who will make the occasional great/exciting play but get consistently shut down by physical corners. We saw this in Philly for years. Believe me now? I don't get this. In what game so far this season has he been "shut down"? KC sucked in the Giants game, and he left the Jax game with the injury. Had 8 receptions for 62 yds against Houston and over 100 yards in the other three games including 157 against arguably the most physical secondary in the league, Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I said before the season started that D-Jax is a very talented one-trick pony who will make the occasional great/exciting play but get consistently shut down by physical corners. We saw this in Philly for years. Believe me now? It was our Haslett-led defense that made DJax what he is. Now its our Gruden-led offense that is ruining what he was. Gruden had the benefit of a tall lanky WR in AJ Green who had no probs going up after the ball, and a good defense to help in Cincinnati. We have neither here, just an over-rated HC who wasn't making any friends at his old job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdawk20 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If my fantasy team goes down the tubes I'm partly blaming Gruden. I drafted Al Mo expecting 1300 yards and 9-10 TD's. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyfan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Has anyone noticed the the Browns are scoring a ton more points than we are with less talent. It's funny how bad coaches get smart as soon as they keave us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It's a little too early to say we have a running problem. The fact that we couldn't run it against Arizona and Seattle isn't an indictment of the run game, it's what happens pretty much week in and week out against those teams. They are very good run defenses, period. We couldn't run against Philly and NY because we immediately got into shootout mode due to big plays on special teams and defense. I'm not saying there's nothing to worry about, I'm saying it's too early to say anything definitive. While RG3 does provide a boost to the run game, we had our biggest day rushing with Jacksonville. So in terms of the run game, I think the jury is still out although things aren't looking good. In terms of the pass game, I think there are a few things that I would like to see done differently. Now, it's hard to be super critical of the play calling when we just put up 350+ yards through the air, but our pass game has seemed very boom and bust. And again, I don't know how much of this is just something that we'll have to get used to coming from Kyle Shanahan and moving to Jon Gruden's brother, meaning some of these things Jay may just believe is a superior play, but I think I would like to see a lot more of the following: - Bootlegs, especially when Cousins is in (bootlegs would help RG3 as well, but I'm not sure he's as effective with them) - HB screens - Better use of hot routes My biggest gripe is that I would also like to see us utilize the middle of the field a lot more than we have been. Some of that may be a philosphical difference between Gruden and Shanahan. Gruden appears to favor comebacks, sideline routes, go routes, and WR screens. Shanahan basically ran variations on the play action post over the middle over and over and over. Gruden always claimed that his favorite play is one that works. Consider this: RG3 & Cousins' stats while throwing to the middle of the field (career): Cousins - 47/67, 673 yds, 70%, 10 ypa, 2 TDs, 2 INT. QB rating: 99.9 (23 points higher than his QB rating while throwing to other parts of the field) RG3 - 93/145, 1417 yds, 64%, 10 ypa, 8 TDs, 4 INT. QB rating: 103.1 (14 points higher than his QB rating while throwing to other parts of the field) Percentage of passes thrown to the middle of the field, by year: 2012: Cousins - 23%, Griffin - 18% 2013: Cousins - 22%, Griffin - 15% 2014: Cousins - 10%, Griffin - 13% In summary, both of our QBs are at their best when throwing the ball over the middle. The number percentage of passes thrown over the middle has dropped to extremely low levels. The Cardinals defense exploited this by sending 6+ rushers to the middle of the field over and over. Where are the routes to take advantage of this vacated space? This is a big missed opportunity, and apparently easily exploitable by defenses. Were there hot routes over the middle that Cousins wasn't recognizing? Over and over during the broadcast, I kept looking at the replays to see if our receivers were recognizing the blitz and appropriately breaking off their routes into vacated space over the middle. I didn't see a lot of evidence that that was being done. Again, it's hard to criticize the pass playcalling when the offense is putting up so much yardage, but it seems like a lot of boom & bust. I would like to see more bootlegs and passes over the middle to help Kirk specifically, and our team in general even when RG3 is back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 RG3 & Cousins' stats while throwing to the middle of the field (career): Cousins - 47/67, 673 yds, 70%, 10 ypa, 2 TDs, 2 INT. QB rating: 99.9 (23 points higher than his QB rating while throwing to other parts of the field) RG3 - 93/145, 1417 yds, 64%, 10 ypa, 8 TDs, 4 INT. QB rating: 103.1 (14 points higher than his QB rating while throwing to other parts of the field) ncr2h- Where in the heck do you get these random stats from? Didn't the thread title say a NON QB discussion? Wow, you just can't resist can you? LOLOL I think the biggest problem outside of the QB is defensive pressure to force turnovers. Orakpo seems to be no factor. Jim Haslett scheme seems to expose our weaknesses rather than hide them. But I will say all in all our defense has held a few times this year when they needed to. Other things happened then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 RG3 & Cousins' stats while throwing to the middle of the field (career): Cousins - 47/67, 673 yds, 70%, 10 ypa, 2 TDs, 2 INT. QB rating: 99.9 (23 points higher than his QB rating while throwing to other parts of the field) RG3 - 93/145, 1417 yds, 64%, 10 ypa, 8 TDs, 4 INT. QB rating: 103.1 (14 points higher than his QB rating while throwing to other parts of the field) ncr2h- Where in the heck do you get these random stats from? Didn't the thread title say a NON QB discussion? Wow, you just can't resist can you? LOLOL I think the biggest problem outside of the QB is defensive pressure to force turnovers. Orakpo seems to be no factor. Jim Haslett scheme seems to expose our weaknesses rather than hide them. But I will say all in all our defense has held a few times this year when they needed to. Other things happened then. Pretty much every post in this thread has mentioned QBs, and I believe mine was actually the first to be complimentary of both our QBs. If the thread's purpose is to critique the offense, then in my mind that means the whole offense and not just the run game. I gave my opinion on the entire offense. The stats come from ESPN's splits. They record passing stats based on where the passes were thrown on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 He had some solid runs but we were playing from behind and teams just stack the box now. They know they will get pressure so there's no concern about getting beat deep Exactly! We need to stretch the Defense, come out and use our speedy receivers and it will open up running lanes, but our play calling is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Exactly! We need to stretch the Defense, come out and use our speedy receivers and it will open up running lanes, but our play calling is pathetic. Teams will still stack the box and dare Kirk to beat them. They where doing it with 3 wides yesterday. It's what opposing teams are is the recipe for success against the Skins right now. I'm sad to say it's been working. The running game is suffering in my opinion because there's no RG3 to make them pay with his dual threat ability. He was the reason for Morris success to a degree. No RG3= no running game for Morris. Teams don't fear Cousins at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Teams will still stack the box and dare Kirk to beat them. They where doing it with 3 wides yesterday. It's what opposing teams are is the recipe for success against the Skins right now. I'm sad to say it's been working. The running game is suffering in my opinion because there's no RG3 to make them pay with his dual threat ability. He was the reason for Morris success to a degree. No RG3= no running game for Morris. Teams don't fear Cousins at all. someone else posed the question in another thread: people are saying that our running game is hurting without RG3. then how does that explain the 5 game stretch in 2011 (prior to RG3) that we had 5 straight 100+ yard games by helu/royster? grossman scared defenses as much as kirk does, which is never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 someone else posed the question in another thread: people are saying that our running game is hurting without RG3. then how does that explain the 5 game stretch in 2011 (prior to RG3) that we had 5 straight 100+ yard games by helu/royster? grossman scared defenses as much as kirk does, which is never. Are you being serious or are you joking? Jay Gruden has a completely different system than Shannahan man. Shannahan has a zone blocking scheme. And add to that Alfred Morris had 1600 yds as a rookie RB with RG3. And over 1100yds year 2 with a not completely healthy RG3. How many yards did Royster and Helu had with Grossman prior to RG3 and Alfred Morris arrival in 2012? Both of them together didn't have 1600yds like Alf did his first year with RG3. Hell you don't have to look that far back. How many yards did Alfred Morris had against the Texans this year as oppose to all the other games after RG3 was injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Are you being serious or you're joking? im serious. the 5 games in 2011 when we were great at running the ball, we didn't have RG3. we had grossman, who doesnt scare anybody. this year, we have kirk cousins, who doesnt scare anybody, but still can't get the running game going. at least thats how i see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 im serious. the 5 games in 2011 when we were great at running the ball, we didn't have RG3. we had grossman, who doesnt scare anybody. this year, we have kirk cousins, who doesnt scare anybody, but still can't get the running game going. at least thats how i see it. Nice try. But try quoting my whole post and you should have all your answers. Not just 5 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Nice try. But try quoting my whole post and you should have all your answers. Not just 5 games. when you replied to me, your whole post wasnt there. the edit hadnt been shown yet for some reason, and i dont know why. sorry. and i just read the whole post. didn't realize that jay has a different system. i guess that would probably explain why the running hasn't been good this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 when you replied to me, your whole post wasnt there. the edit hadnt been shown yet for some reason, and i dont know why. sorry. and i just read the whole post. didn't realize that jay has a different system. i guess that would probably explain why the running hasn't been good this season. No problem bro. But Shannahan run game utilized smaller quicker lineman. Jay Gruden offense needs bigger lineman that are more physical. That's why this line struggles in pass pro. Also Jay did say he would keep some elements of the old system as well. What he kept I have no clue. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsworth Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 First and foremost our offensive problems stem from the number of times we turn the ball over. We're joint last with the jets at -9 turnover differential in the league, and the Jets share our 1-5 record. The only team we've beaten, the Jags, are 1 better of at -8 turnover differential. 8 fumbles, of which we've lost 5, 8 interceptions. So at least we've got balance in one part of our offense . There are many other factors involved, but if there was better ball security we would be more competitive than we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 im serious. the 5 games in 2011 when we were great at running the ball, we didn't have RG3. we had grossman, who doesnt scare anybody. this year, we have kirk cousins, who doesnt scare anybody, but still can't get the running game going. at least thats how i see it. Gruden couldn't run the ball in Cinci either. There's your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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