WP: Redskins’ 3-4 defense, finally built to Jim Haslett’s liking, is capable of causing havoc

[Puma Kane]

 

What were his options? He had Breeland, Biggers and Chase as his only healthy corners. I do wish Breeland would have played more tight man coverage, but he's a young corner who's going to make some mistakes. And the problem was that whoever he wasn't covering was getting the catch (not like they were avoiding him, but Biggers shouldn't be starting in this league).

 

Lol What were his options????

 

Well let's see:

 

1. Haslett could have given Breeland safety help in quarters 1-3.

2. He could have had linebackers bracketed Fitz underneath from time to time.

3. He could have had Fitz double covered.

4. Haslett could have rolled coverages towards Fitz and forced Palmer to go to less favorable options.

5. On freaking 3rd and 23 or any long down and distance, Haslett shouldnt have his corners back just let the opponent get easy 1st downs.

 

Haslett defense is one of the worst defenses ever. Teams are constantly making history or breaking some sort of record on them.

 

Haslett coaching is dead, he knows opponents know it and it's all indefensible.

[Thinking Skins]

Lol What were his options????

 

Well let's see:

 

1. Haslett could have given Breeland safety help in quarters 1-3.

Yeah, with our safeties that can't cover. Lets not forget that we also had a rookie in there at FS in Robinson and that Meriweather is not a good coverage safety. Nope, if he did this people would still be asking "why'd he ask our horrible safeties to cover Fitz"

2. He could have had linebackers bracketed Fitz underneath from time to time.

So somebody's actually ASKING our HORRIBLE coverage LBS to help cover one of the top WRs in the league? Lets not forget that we also had a first time starter at JLB in Will Compton. You want to overload him with that assignment and have us really embarassed? Yeah, this would have us asking "why'd he put a LB on Fitz?"

3. He could have had Fitz double covered.

Other than the two options you mention, what do you recommend? Biggers? Chase?

Fact is that Fitz came into the game having a bad year (partly due to backup QBs) and we have a young CB who has talent and Has showed faith in his guys and said he trusts him to take on Fitz 1-1. You're really picking on Haslett because one of the top WRs in the history of the league had a 98 yard game and a TD. That's the best you've got?

4. Haslett could have rolled coverages towards Fitz and forced Palmer to go to less favorable options.

Has did mix things up. But the fact is they have three good WRs and we have a poor secondary. There was always a mismatch they could exploit and thats what they did for the most part. But we held Palmer to 250 yards passing and most of his stuff was quick passes. He threw 12 passes to the short left, 10 passes to the short middle, and 13 passes to the short right. Otherwise he threw 3 passes deep. Those passes were getting out fast, which explains why our pass rush wasn't getting there and we were still hitting him.

5. On freaking 3rd and 23 or any long down and distance, Haslett shouldnt have his corners back just let the opponent get easy 1st downs.

Gruden has already said thats on the CB who should know the down and distance and play closer.

 

Haslett defense is one of the worst defenses ever. Teams are constantly making history or breaking some sort of record on them.

 

Haslett coaching is dead, he knows opponents know it and it's all indefensible.

No its not. I've seen bad defenses here. Ron Lynn was a bad defense. Mike Nolon was a bad defense. Haslett in his first 3 years was a bad defense. This is not a bad defense.

[Puma Kane]

Yeah, with our safeties that can't cover. Lets not forget that we also had a rookie in there at FS in Robinson and that Meriweather is not a good coverage safety. Nope, if he did this people would still be asking "why'd he ask our horrible safeties to cover Fitz"

So somebody's actually ASKING our HORRIBLE coverage LBS to help cover one of the top WRs in the league? Lets not forget that we also had a first time starter at JLB in Will Compton. You want to overload him with that assignment and have us really embarassed? Yeah, this would have us asking "why'd he put a LB on Fitz?"

Other than the two options you mention, what do you recommend? Biggers? Chase?

Fact is that Fitz came into the game having a bad year (partly due to backup QBs) and we have a young CB who has talent and Has showed faith in his guys and said he trusts him to take on Fitz 1-1. You're really picking on Haslett because one of the top WRs in the history of the league had a 98 yard game and a TD. That's the best you've got?

Has did mix things up. But the fact is they have three good WRs and we have a poor secondary. There was always a mismatch they could exploit and thats what they did for the most part. But we held Palmer to 250 yards passing and most of his stuff was quick passes. He threw 12 passes to the short left, 10 passes to the short middle, and 13 passes to the short right. Otherwise he threw 3 passes deep. Those passes were getting out fast, which explains why our pass rush wasn't getting there and we were still hitting him.

Gruden has already said thats on the CB who should know the down and distance and play closer.

 

No its not. I've seen bad defenses here. Ron Lynn was a bad defense. Mike Nolon was a bad defense. Haslett in his first 3 years was a bad defense. This is not a bad defense.

These issues didn't just start. They have been here with Haslett. He gets here and all the sudden guys can't cover or tackle. I've never seen so many broken plays for TDs in my life until Haslett has gotten here.

 

With that said, its time for him to go. Guys aren't responding to his coaching. Basics things arent being done and the who team pays for it, especially the offense who has to play catch up each and every game. Enough with the BS. He's proven nothing to this team, fans and it seems his players. Cut the tsih Danny there are better options out there.

 

Sunday's game is a snapshot of a Haslett coached defense.

[darrelgreenie]

Puma Kane-

A lot of the points you mentioned about different schematic adjustments etc...are hard to implement on the fly.

Our 3rd CB played the entire game our 4th CB played about ~80% of the game our 4th CB even got playing time.

OUr 3rd S played almost half the game.

We had a first time starter at WILB.

You have to be realistic about how many changes and tweaks you can make in coverage with that much youth on the field and with a starting SS in Meriweather who's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Making all those coverage changes with that make-shift unit is asking for a blown coverage.

[skins island connection]

These issues didn't just start. They have been here with Haslett. He gets here and all the sudden guys can't cover or tackle. I've never seen so many broken plays for TDs in my life until Haslett has gotten here.

 

With that said, its time for him to go. Guys aren't responding to his coaching. Basics things arent being done and the who team pays for it, especially the offense who has to play catch up each and every game. Enough with the BS. He's proven nothing to this team, fans and it seems his players. Cut the tsih Danny there are better options out there.

 

Sunday's game is a snapshot of a Haslett coached defense.

 

 The majority of games we've played this year were not against high powered offenses. Philly is the only one, but outside of that the others were just average or below average.

 Technique and fundamentals doesn't seem to be his strongsuit; i'm wondering what they're actually watching on game film. If we had started off playing against Philly, Denver, and GB, we'd be having the same discussion of breaking the all time record for ineptness by a defense.

 They should be on the hunt right now, when they find someone, remove Haslett and call it a season; with the amount of issues this entire team has, we're not going anywhere soon, may as well begin the process now instead of waiting until the season is over with, then we'd be in competition with other teams looking for a DC.

 If they wait til the end of the season, its unlikely they'll find anyone worthy; that is, unless Bruce has a buddy somewhere he'd like to put on the Redskins payroll.

[nfl guru]

 

I don't get why Haslett gets so much negativity. His defense is currently rated

#10 in the league with 336.2 yards per game.

#12 in yards per play.

#11th in first downs per game

 

We're not doing so well in points per game, but you can't judge us by that metric ignoring the others. I know people want a defense that's getting 3 turnovers and 3 sacks per game, but this is an improvement over last year (which in itself was an improvement from midseason).

 

I really think Haslett is getting too much flack for his past performance and people are acting like he's what's holding this team back. In reality, the problem lies more with our offense that can't get simple 30 yard drives to change the field position.

What were his options? He had Breeland, Biggers and Chase as his only healthy corners. I do wish Breeland would have played more tight man coverage, but he's a young corner who's going to make some mistakes. And the problem was that whoever he wasn't covering was getting the catch (not like they were avoiding him, but Biggers shouldn't be starting in this league).

 

without the jags game, those #'s look terrible.  Also, check opposing qb's qbr against us, all season highs.  Simply put, nobody fears our defense.

 

34.75 ppg given up last 4 games, and yet the defense ISN'T the problem.  LOL

[skinzplay]

There is an unmistakable and predictable pattern. Against Haslett defenses, players always wind up having either career firsts, career days, or resurrected careers. Did you read Ryan Clark's comments about the D not getting it done against the Cardinals? He wasn't directly referring to Haslett - or at least I don't think so - but this is systemic with the Haslett scheme; doesn't matter what kind of defense he runs.

[skins island connection]

 When he was bought/brought here, he was told to run a 3-4, and he was a 4-3 guy.

But he took the job anyway, knowing he'd probably fail and blame would be diverted.

 

Gruden comes here, and he had every opportunity to at least TRY to convince them to go back to a 4-3, but he just kept his pie hole shut.

He continues to struggle in the 3-4 and his schemes within.

That, if anything, tells me he is spineless to at least stand up for what you believe in; whether or not Gruden wanted the 3-4, that would have been the time to say 'hey, i'm not good at this 3-4, i'd be much more comfortable running a 4-3, at least something i'm familiar with'.

 

Haslett is exactly like some of the past players we've signed; they're just looking for a paycheck. Anyone who has done a job for years develops memory of things that go wrong and prevent them from happening. They take pride in their work.

If you are working at a job for 10+ years, you should be good at it and you love doing it, or you are doing it for the money.

I'll leave it up to you to decide what Haslett's doing it for.

[steve09ru]

Below is a list of games and opposing teams season averages and what they did against the Redskins defense to give a better perspective on how they may be performing:

 

Philly averages 379 total, 262 passing, 116 rushing, 30.5 points  :  1st down/game - 21  3rd down % - 41%

Skins allowed 379 total, 321 passing, 54 rushing, 27 points :  1st down - 22  3rd down % - 36.3%

 

Houston averages 337 total, 206 passing, 128 rushing, 22 points :  1st down/game - 18  3rd down % - 36.8%

Skins allowed 331 total, 206 passing, 115 rushing, 10 points :  1st down - 16  3rd down % - 50%

 

Jax averages 290 total, 221 passing, 68 rushing, 13.5 points :  1st down/game - 12  3rd down % - 37.2%

Skins allowed 148 total, 123 passing, 25 rushing, 10 points :  1st down - 8  3rd down % - 23%

 

Seattle averages 336 total, 186 passing, 150 rushing, 26.6 points :  1st down/game - 19  3rd down % - 38.1%

Skins allowed 403 total, 178 passing, 225 rushing, 27 points :  1st down - 19  3rd down % - 35.7%

 

AZ averages 308 total, 222 passing, 86 rushing, 23.2 points :  1st down/game - 19  3rd down % - 41.1%

Skins allowed 317 total, 243 passing, 74 rushing, 20 points :  1st down- 19  3rd down % - 41.1%

 

 

To me, the defense is holding opposing teams at/around or below their season average from yards/1sts/3rd down conv./points.  So what is the deciding factor?  Field position - we lack it and give other team great starting points consistently.  Our offense is then consistently put into a poor position as they are always pinned back

[steve09ru]

On that note, I would love to be able to see splits on defensive stats if anyone knows where to find those?  Also, the one thing we aren't seeing are takeaways.  I think that is where the big fault of the defense lies, not necessarily on the actual play but the ability to force turnovers and turn momentum/games around

[Thinking Skins]

My point was our ranking goes down every week, Jacksonville gave us a really high ranking.

Here is the truly OFFENSIVE rankings of the offenses we played (BTW Arizona beat their average output a game against us):

 

Houston: 19th in league

Jacksonville:  DEAD LAST in the league

Eagles: 11th in league

Giants: 24th in league

Seahawks: 20th in league

Cardinals:  28th in league

 

Outside of the Eagles, we haven't even played a good offense.

Nothing we can do but play the teams on our schedule. steve09ru just posted how those teams did against us vs their averages. We'll see how this defense does when we play a better offense. But we play Tenn, Minn, TB, and STL. I don't know if Dallas will be the running team they've shown this year or their historical pass happy team, but if they're run happy, I could easily see us putting up good numbers against them.

So if we have a top 10 defense going into week 12, or even week 14, what will you say then? Will you still be questioning the validity of the defense (I agree with the assertion that we need to get more turnovers and get better on third down).

But I just think there's a disconnect between people saying this is a "horrible" defense, and I'm just not seeing it. Not on the field, and not in the numbers. Maybe we're not really a top 10 defense. Maybe we're more in the middle of the pact. But I find it hard to believe that this is a bottom tiered defense, just because fans don't like Haslett.

[Thinking Skins]

According to http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/defensive-hurries/2014/

 

QB Hurries:

Kerrigan - 5

Murphy - 2

Hatcher - 2

Baker - 2

Clark - 1

Meriweather - 1

K. Robinson - 1

Rambo - 1

[Thinking Skins]

Tackles for Loss from http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/washington-redskins/roster

Ryan Kerrigan 7

Jason Hatcher 3

Brandon Meriweather 3

Frank Kearse 2

Keenan Robinson 2

Perry Riley 2

Chris Baker 1

Brian Orakpo 1

E.J. Biggers 1

Jarvis Jenkins 1

Trenton Robinson 1

David Amerson 1

Trent Murphy 1

Clifton Geathers 1

Barry Cofield 1

[Stormy]

You don't win by holding teams to their average yardage totals, you win by holding them well below those numbers. We don't hold anyone below their yard total averages, and we compound that by the fact that we get no sacks, force no turnovers, have major difficulty getting off the field on meaningful third downs and we allow opposing QBs the second highest QB Rating in the entire NFL. This deferral to pure yardage totals when we already know that our poor special teams play and turnover prone offense give teams short fields and short scoring drives is inaccurate or disingenuous.

Look at our own division this week. Dallas and the Eagles defenses helped their teams win by holding good teams below their yardage averages, and creating pressure, turnovers and sacks. We do NONE of the above, and have people saying the defense is doing their job because we're allowing middle of the road yardage allowed totals. Sounds like the very selective stats Shanahan used to portray his offense as top 5 last year using yards, while ignoring a host of other stats. Bogus!

PS: We've played 3 of the bottom 10 offensive teams in the NFL in terms of total yards, and only 1 team in the Top 15.

[bh32]

Players take on the attitude of their coach and haslett is gutless, no fire whatsoever..Just look how greg Williams had the Redskins defense flying around and punishing people...I see none of that now .

[Stormy]

Players take on the attitude of their coach and haslett is gutless, no fire whatsoever..Just look how greg Williams had the Redskins defense flying around and punishing people...I see none of that now .

Exactly.

This team just faced a bottom tier Arizona Cardinals offense with an injured QB at the helm battling a serious nerve issue, and we never got after him at all. The result is that the guy completed 65% of his passes, had no turnovers and a QBR of 94. And people here are calling that a successful outing. Russell Wilson had his highest QB Rating of the year against us, and rushed for more yards against us than in his other 5 games combined, and people here are saying our defense played well enough to win that game for us. Eli had his best QB Rating, and carved us up for 450 yards of offense and 4TDs. Foles had one of his top QB ratings and one of his best yardage and TD games against us.

Meanwhile, we just saw Dallas manhandle Russell Wilson and the Eagles obliterate Manning. THOSE are good defensive performances, not the 10 yard cushion, no pressure, no sacks, no turnovers effort Haslett's defenses put up every week. But by all means, look purely at the total yardage stat and tell us how well our defense has played. By that metric, using total yards alone, our offense must also be one of the top 6 in the NFL. Hard to believe we've lost any games at all with our top 6 offense and top 10 defense. That's what stats without context gets you.

[KingGibbs]

Jim Haslett. Pfftt.

[bh32]

We need a DC that challenges players...not someone who stands on the side line with the look of a deer staring at headlights..How can upper mgmt. be so damn blind at what the problem is? haslett is not a leader..

[Cooleyfan1993]

i actually liked the idea of extending haslett for this season. after the reports came out that shanahan meddled with hasletts defense, i wanted to find out if a different head coach would be better for haslett. 6 games into the season, we've learned that shanahan most likely wasnt the problem for the defense at all, haslett is the problem. so now i would be pretty much ok with it if haslett gets fired at the end of the season. bring in another guy in the off-season to make the defense better.

[chipwhich]

Below is a list of games and opposing teams season averages and what they did against the Redskins defense to give a better perspective on how they may be performing:

 

Philly averages 379 total, 262 passing, 116 rushing, 30.5 points  :  1st down/game - 21  3rd down % - 41%

Skins allowed 379 total, 321 passing, 54 rushing, 27 points :  1st down - 22  3rd down % - 36.3%

 

Houston averages 337 total, 206 passing, 128 rushing, 22 points :  1st down/game - 18  3rd down % - 36.8%

Skins allowed 331 total, 206 passing, 115 rushing, 10 points :  1st down - 16  3rd down % - 50%

 

Jax averages 290 total, 221 passing, 68 rushing, 13.5 points :  1st down/game - 12  3rd down % - 37.2%

Skins allowed 148 total, 123 passing, 25 rushing, 10 points :  1st down - 8  3rd down % - 23%

 

Seattle averages 336 total, 186 passing, 150 rushing, 26.6 points :  1st down/game - 19  3rd down % - 38.1%

Skins allowed 403 total, 178 passing, 225 rushing, 27 points :  1st down - 19  3rd down % - 35.7%

 

AZ averages 308 total, 222 passing, 86 rushing, 23.2 points :  1st down/game - 19  3rd down % - 41.1%

Skins allowed 317 total, 243 passing, 74 rushing, 20 points :  1st down- 19  3rd down % - 41.1%

 

 

To me, the defense is holding opposing teams at/around or below their season average from yards/1sts/3rd down conv./points.  So what is the deciding factor?  Field position - we lack it and give other team great starting points consistently.  Our offense is then consistently put into a poor position as they are always pinned back

 

Why did you leave out the Giants game?

Nothing we can do but play the teams on our schedule.

 

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  And he left out the Giants game LOL.  You guys are playing meaningless games with statistics to lie to yourselves.  His historical defensive rankings tell a complete story.

[Thinking Skins]

Why did you leave out the Giants game?

 

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  And he left out the Giants game LOL.  You guys are playing meaningless games with statistics to lie to yourselves.  His historical defensive rankings tell a complete story.

History is history and its no denying that. I'm not trying to act like Haslett is some defensive mastermind. My whole argument is that the defense is not the scapegoat that people want to act like it is. Its not the reason we're 1-5. Its not a great defense, but its definitely not as bad as some of you think. But I don't want to argue the "keep Haslett" thing for too long because its really not something I'm passionate about. I just wish fans / media would look at it more objectively instead of only choosing to point out the negatives.

[chipwhich]

History is history and its no denying that. I'm not trying to act like Haslett is some defensive mastermind. My whole argument is that the defense is not the scapegoat that people want to act like it is. Its not the reason we're 1-5. Its not a great defense, but its definitely not as bad as some of you think. But I don't want to argue the "keep Haslett" thing for too long because its really not something I'm passionate about. I just wish fans / media would look at it more objectively instead of only choosing to point out the negatives.

 

Objectivity This is the 5th year under Haslett's tutelage?  How much more objectivity do you want?  We still have corners lining up 10 yards off their receivers, still aren't getting pressure on the quarterback, still not making turnovers, still not stopping drives at the end of games.  This isn't a rash decision.

 

The only objectivity I will give Haslett is our team as constructed is lousy.  We have hired every type of coach you would ever want to consider to turn this thing around and every one has been a failure.  So that's the only excuse I will make for Haslett.

 

Defending him however is unconscionable.

[Thinking Skins]

Objectivity This is the 5th year under Haslett's tutelage?  How much more objectivity do you want?  We still have corners lining up 10 yards off their receivers, still aren't getting pressure on the quarterback, still not making turnovers, still not stopping drives at the end of games.  This isn't a rash decision.

Those things are all good, but that's not the totality of defense. That's been my whole argument in this thread. I'll admit that after the Giants game I was distraught in both Cousins and in the defense. But in the Seattle game, when they were getting the ball around midfield all throughout the third, I was kinda excited that we were able to hold them from getting points on like 3 or 4 straight drives. Same thing with the Arizona game.

I don't even know if I've argued that Haslett should stay in the past. But that's not my opinion. I'd still like to see new blood there for basically the same reason. I don't want to settle for average. But my whole argument is that our defense is average when Skins fans want to declare it the worse in the league.

[skins island connection]

 I would at least be more tolerant of a defense that can get some sacks and turnovers in a losing cause.

 It wasn't long ago, pre 3-4, where Grossman [ settle down GHH ] was QB who looked much worse than Cousins, and was a lock to throw at least 3 up for grabs/int.  balls per game, but the defense held up their end, though not world beaters. But the defense then at least gave the offense a chance to win; now its a friggin 180 turn.

 

 This game against the Tennessee Tight-ones better be a Jacksonville-esque type of game for the defense; if the Titans are remotely close in this game going into the 4th, even worse winning a higher scoring game, I will spontaniously combust.

Seriously.

[dballer]

 I would at least be more tolerant of a defense that can get some sacks and turnovers in a losing cause.

 It wasn't long ago, pre 3-4, where Grossman [ settle down GHH ] was QB who looked much worse than Cousins, and was a lock to throw at least 3 up for grabs/int.  balls per game, but the defense held up their end, though not world beaters. But the defense then at least gave the offense a chance to win; now its a friggin 180 turn.

 

 This game against the Tennessee Tight-ones better be a Jacksonville-esque type of game for the defense; if the Titans are remotely close in this game going into the 4th, even worse winning a higher scoring game, I will spontaniously combust.

Seriously.

 

Yeh I am with you. Though I almost felt that way going into the Arizona game, but Palmer starting makes that offense more formidable. This Titans offense is a mess. Even if Amerson can't go they shouldn't be able to score more than two TDs on us.