CNN: Protests play out in streets after teen is fatally shot by police

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Click to read the rest

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-police-video-at-heart-of-lawsuit-dismissal-of/article_f4c65142-f3be-57f1-a957-9f256fb02459.html

 

 

 

Police dash cam shows part of contested arrest – until St. Louis officer turns camera off

 

 

ST. LOUIS • As video cameras begin to sweep post-Ferguson policing — and policymakers grapple with whether to bar the public from watching the images — one such recording sits at the heart of a new lawsuit.

 

It shows St. Louis police making an arrest that would later be called abusive, and catches an apparently surprised officer yelling, in part, “Everybody hold up. We’re red right now!” before she abruptly shuts off the camera.

 

Joel Schwartz and Bevis Schock, lawyers who filed suit Jan. 22 on behalf of Cortez Bufford, said “red” is cop slang for a running camera. What is seen before the video stops, they claim, supports their accusations in St. Louis Circuit Court that police lacked probable cause and applied excessive force.

 

The video, which St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay’s office had asked a private lawyer to delay releasing last summer, shows city officers pull Bufford from a car, kick him repeatedly and shock him with a Taser. It played a role in the dropping of charges against Bufford.

 

But a lawyer for the St. Louis Police Officers’ Association insists that the video really reflects a proper escalation of force applied against a resisting suspect who was lucky he didn’t get shot when he reached for a gun.

Police Chief Sam Dotson declined to comment on the specifics of the case.

 

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Did anyone else read that and come away with even less sympathy for Law Enforcement Officials?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Did anyone else read that and come away with even less sympathy for Law Enforcement Officials?

*Raises hand*

[Commander PK]

Did anyone else read that and come away with even less sympathy for Law Enforcement Officials?

If your paradigm of LEO's is based only on negative incidents and the media firestorm that always follows them...than yes you will have less sympathy. Everyday thousands of officers serve their communities and do their jobs to the best of their abilities, but there is no shock value or faux "outrage" to stir up over the good.

[Burgold]

If your paradigm of LEO's is based only on negative incidents and the media firestorm that always follows them...than yes you will have less sympathy. Everyday thousands of officers serve their communities and do their jobs to the best of their abilities, but there is no shock value or faux "outrage" to stir up over the good.

There's a lot of truth to this part. It's not news when the system works or when things go right. We all are impacted by an outlier effect of sorts.  Stories of alleged abuse get highlighted and in our minds linked together creating a narrative.  In this way, we may begin to see rampant racism in police or that all Muslims are terrorists, etc. Mind you, we also see/read hundreds or thousands of news stories that show the flip side... esp. about the police. Every day, we read, see, hear stories about the police doing their job well daily... they're just not couched that way. 

 

Think about it, each story about an arrest or rescue worker responding to an emergency tells the implicit tale of a public servant coming to our rescue. The "news story" is usually about the crime or the fire or the accident, but the understood part of the story is that the police, firemen, paramedics, etc. got there and saved the day. These officers or their spokesmen are named and credited in most stories even though the principle narrative is about the wrongdoer or accident.

 

In some respects, in most respects you don't want to hear police featured in the news, because 90% of news is negative. The media covers what went wrong, what is worrisome, what is dangerous.  News warns us about the bad in society or acts as a check to corruption... or it also celebrates our achievements (though it doesn't do that often enough except on NPR or in the areas of arts and sports). Even FOX and local news (which Painkiller prefers) is a nonstop ****fest. He just prefers the targets FOX aims at.

 

Point is, if the stories presented are understood, the ratio of good cop stories to bad are probably easily 1000:1. That's the way it should be. Cases of alleged abuse deserve to be reported. It is a necessary function of the media, just as other abuses of society are. 

 

Once reported, the onus falls on the system. The guilty ought to get what's coming to them and the innocent exonerated. The media should be there for those steps as well. A problem then arises when in 99% of these outlier cases where our eyes see evidence of abuse, none is found. That makes us suspicious. The worry deepens when we find cases of deep rooted racism inside the institutions that cleared the officer of alleged abuse.

 

In my book, police do a disservice in protecting their guilty. If that .001% were outed and found guilty of their wrongdoing it would ease society's mind. More importantly, it would serve the public better. The fact that all of these cases recently seem to end in the same way seems suspicious and dishonest.

[Commander PK]

I like your post Burgold and you made some good points. I will respond later on in greater detail.

[Commander PK]

Once reported, the onus falls on the system. The guilty ought to get what's coming to them and the innocent exonerated. The media should be there for those steps as well. A problem then arises when in 99% of these outlier cases where our eyes see evidence of abuse, none is found. That makes us suspicious. The worry deepens when we find cases of deep rooted racism inside the institutions that cleared the officer of alleged abuse.

 

In my book, police do a disservice in protecting their guilty. If that .001% were outed and found guilty of their wrongdoing it would ease society's mind. More importantly, it would serve the public better. The fact that all of these cases recently seem to end in the same way seems suspicious and dishonest.

 

 

For the most part I agree with most of what you wrote in your first three paragraphs.  

 

I agree completely that the onus falls on the system to punish the bad and free the innocent.  The problem we are having now, with regards to LEO's is that in many cases to the letter of the law and to the letter of agency policies there are no "crimes" being committed where the public thinks they see them.  People see a report on a police shooting where the cop fired on a person who was found to be unarmed, and the public automatically assumes there is a clear cut case for murder or excessive force, and no matter what the investigation reveals expects a resolution that punishes the cop for doing something so obviously wrong.  

 

What I have found the more I read and listen to people, is that the public at large really do not realize how irresponsible and reckless some people are.  Most people just don't see these types.  Like for instance...charging a cop who has a pistol trained on you and saying something to the effect of "you are too much of a **** to shoot me."  Yes, these people are out here.  The average person thinks that would be suicidal...but there are some that think that is perfectly acceptable behavior.  There is a reason you hear terms now like "suicide by cop,"...some people are out of their damn minds, or they just don't give a crap.  I deal with many of these types in my facility every single day.  Now, we could try to list the hundreds of different reasons why some people end up like this...but the point is they are out here, and somebody has to deal with them.

 

I'm fine with independent entities investigating allegations of misconduct and excessive force.  I'm fine with accountability.  I'm fine with checks and balances, that is how things are supposed to work.  If you are doing things the correct and honest way you have nothing to fear.  The Ferguson Police department has been found by the DOJ to have been doing many things wrong....but that is one agency though, and I don't believe indicative of some larger national picture.  Like you said, you are getting a small sample size when you see only the negative.  In a free society there is a huge emphasis on respecting the rights of the individual, but with those rights comes the expectation of responsible behavior.  

 

"No man is above the law, and no man is below it; nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it.  Obedience to the law is demanded as a right; not as a favor."

 

Theodore Roosevelt

 

[Slateman]

I think it's a whole lot more than .001%. In fact, I'd say you need to move the decimal place over about four spots.

[The Sisko]

Maybe, but the question is, four decimal places in which direction? 

[Burgold]

 

I'm fine with independent entities investigating allegations of misconduct and excessive force.  I'm fine with accountability.  I'm fine with checks and balances, that is how things are supposed to work.  If you are doing things the correct and honest way you have nothing to fear.  The Ferguson Police department has been found by the DOJ to have been doing many things wrong....but that is one agency though, and I don't believe indicative of some larger national picture.  Like you said, you are getting a small sample size when you see only the negative.  In a free society there is a huge emphasis on respecting the rights of the individual, but with those rights comes the expectation of responsible behavior.  

Then we're close.

 

I think it's hard to deny that something is broken. Way too many shootings, the prison pipeline isn't productive, and economically we're not seeing the kind of opportunity or production that any of us want.

 

I think the puzzle is very complex and there is blame first and foremost on the individual. Although it may take Herculean effort, it is possible to rise out of your situation (most of us aren't Hercules though). Then we look at the supports and parents have been failing, as have neighbors, clergy, teachers, etc. Institutions have been failing us too. Look at Ferguson as an example. An institution beset by racist beliefs and burdened with this revenue philosophy can't be helpful. It's doomed from the start.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I blame all of us and in that I refuse to ignore the part of us that include authorities like police officers. I demand them to be better than regular Joes despite their being simple humans. I demand more of politicians, marines and teachers too. I get disappointed sometimes.

 

When we see eight, ten, thirty examples of what seems to be an abuse of force or an abuse of decision making in a relatively short period of time... then, a look in the mirror and at look our institutions seems warranted. So far, for the most part, the police and courts/grand juries have been unwilling to seriously examine what to honest eyes seem to be wrong doing (for example the chokehold or Tamir Rice situations).

 

Mind you, I acknowledge that life is messy and bad results can come out of appropriate decisions, but I also think that giving the benefit of the doubt is different than giving a pass.

[The Sisko]

As sick and tired as you are of Cops and I presume anyone else who wears a badge....I assure you we are just as sick of people like yourself. People who have no problem proclaiming the guilt of any LEO who has an allegation brought against him...something you would never do for the criminals and thugs he locks up. "Innocent until proven guilty" Right? People who think for 40 thousand a year plus benefits a Cop's job is to take a beating or bullet from said criminal/thug before he dare shoot him. People who don't want "militarized police" but expect officers to be proficient enough to shoot a fleeing felon in the leg from 25 yards away. People who want Police to ignore "minor law breaking" like "throwing water bottles" at them. People who do nothing but **** and whine about Cops, but would be wetting or ****ting their bed or both at the same time while dialing 911 begging for help the second somebody busts through their door to do god knows what to them or their family, because god forbid they have a gun in the house. I mean THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

I’m sorry but you don't get to be sick and tired. It doesn’t work that way. When I got burned out and fed up with clinical care, I didn’t whine that I was “entitled” to be rude to a certain number of patients because it’s a tough job and patients are unreasonable and on top of it, those ****s actually have the nerve to expect me to show up and help resuscitate them after complaining about my rudeness. The nerve of some people! Look, the public are your customers, yes even the people you're arresting and even those unreasonably accusing you of wrongdoing. As much as it's not any fun, dealing with difficult people is part of any job. Having the power to use deadly force requires a greater degree of restraint and accountability. Again, if you don't like it, there's a whole host of other career choices out there for you.

I also take issue with your use of extreme cases to try to make the point that cops are innocent 99.99999% of the time. Nobody with any sense expects cops to take a bullet before defending themselves. However what we do expect is that they make a reasonable effort to de-escalate situations rather than using force as the default option. Even worse, there's a segment of the police that actively and intentionally escalates situations specifically because they don't like an individual or because they're on a power trip. And yeah, you're damn right that these same people call the police during a burglary and expect them to show up. Again, it's their damn job! Why is it so unreasonable for us to expect the police to actually do it, and do it professionally, without excessive force and without profiling or discrimination?

 

I used to believe all the stories I heard about Police abuse of power, etc. As the years went by I discovered the truth. You know what I have found after over 17 years of working in the field? Most people I deal with through work are completely full of ****. Are their bad cops? Sure there are. Are their asshole cops? Sure there are. Do mistakes get made? Absolutely...but that kind of thing is nowhere near at the level nationally that the media and detractors would have you believe.

You discovered the truth, huh? Well, some of your colleagues would seem to disagree with your truth. Police officers themselves report that excessive force is way higher than you seem to think. This report is from 2000, but I doubt things are much better today.

Regarding the rarity of these types of incidents and the media’s alleged overhyping of it, you and nobody else has any idea of how often excessive force is used by the police because reporting it is voluntary and some departments do and others don’t. So while I can accept the general conclusion that most cops are OK or that excessive force is rare, anyone trying to draw any specific conclusions about it has little if any basis for doing so. The data just aren't there. And why not, you ask? Is it because the public doesn't want it? No, I'm pretty sure it's because the FOP unions won't allow it.

 

Supervision cover-ups? Over the last (3) years, I have been directly responsible for the termination of at least (4) subordinates who were not cutting the mustard, or who were found to be dishonest. One was found to be doing some pretty heinous things off duty, and because of an internally initiated investigation due to information that accidentally came to light (and could have just been blown off...you know because we protect our own above all others), was charged and sentenced to prison accordingly.

Slow clap. So you all did your job as you were supposed to. Are we expected to award the LEO community with a cookie every time you all do your jobs as you're supposed to?

However just because you or your department does your job the way you're supposed to, don't turn a blind eye to the others across the profession that don't. As for the innocent until proven guilty stuff, that's true to a point. However bear in mind that on our side, we civilians don't get the benefit of being taken at our word. If we say we have an alibi, we'd damn well better be able to prove it. OTOH all you guys have to do is say "Nah, nothing to see here" to your supervisor, a prosecutor or a judge and even if there's video evidence that would convict others, you're given the benefit of the doubt. And most of the time, there’s a nice cushy system there to make sure you’re not going to suffer any real punishment if you do somehow get caught doing things that the rest of us would serve a lot of time for. So for example, these poor babies lost their jobs and were convicted of misdemeanors…no jail time or even loss of pension for the unprovoked brutal beating of a prisoner almost to death. Sorry, but I'd take that over the “advantage” of us civilians being innocent until proven guilty any day.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Ride along programs are available to the public. Take a tour of a prison or jail. I encourage you and Destino to take advantage of them sometime. Perhaps your perspectives will change. The old "walk a mile in my shoes" thing. Try it sometime.

If you dare.

Absolutely agreed. Except I'd like to see that turned around too. How about having a Black cop ride along with a citizen of Ferguson or similar places for a couple of weeks and not identify himself as a cop and see how he gets treated. If it weren't for the fraternity, he might even tell the truth about it too.

 

In my book, police do a disservice in protecting their guilty. If that .001% were outed and found guilty of their wrongdoing it would ease society's mind. More importantly, it would serve the public better. The fact that all of these cases recently seem to end in the same way seems suspicious and dishonest.

Agreed. However, let's say I accept the idea that it's just one or two bad apples out of a department making the others look bad. But then if that's the case, how does one explain all the cops in the story posted above beating and kicking this guy? Shouldn't it only be one or two? Shouldn't someone have raised an objection to turning off the camera? Where's all those "good" apples calling the single bad apple off or even better, pulling him/her away? What about the blue wall of silence…which even applies when another cop is the victim it seems.  I get that not all cops are bad. However as I've said a million times, most of the allegedly good ones cover up or turn a blind eye to the bad ones...and the FOP/guard unions do an even better job of protecting their “brothers”. 

 

The Ferguson Police department has been found by the DOJ to have been doing many things wrong....but that is one agency though, and I don't believe indicative of some larger national picture. Like you said, you are getting a small sample size when you see only the negative. In a free society there is a huge emphasis on respecting the rights of the individual, but with those rights comes the expectation of responsible behavior.

Not indicative of a larger national picture? Really?

So yeah, Ferguson milked the populace like cows. Correction, a certain segment of the populace. However the Ferguson report looks a lot like other recent DOJ reports alleging excessive force, discrimination and misconduct by police departments elsewhere. 

Miami Gardens, FL where Earl Sampson was repeatedly jailed (62 times) for "trespassing"…at his ****ing job. Even worse, when the store owner complained, the police retaliated against him and Sampson for being so unreasonable as to actually expect his and others’ constitutional rights be respected. You’re right, the public is soooo unreasonable! And where were all the "good" cops while this was going on?

And a few random things it only took me 10 minutes to find online…

Cop beats up handcuffed prisoner

Punches woman for no reason

Slaps driver for refusing vehicle search

And let’s not leave out you salt of the earth prison guards

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/fbi-agent-uncovers-the-truth-of-prison-brutality/2014/11/06/f65e3e58-6604-11e4-9fdc-d43b053ecb4d_story.html 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/nyregion/even-as-many-eyes-watch-brutality-at-rikers-island-persists.html

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/09/hitchens200509

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article2185954.html

 

[Commander PK]

I see Sisko.  Law Enforcement Officers are not allowed to be "sick and tired."  We are not allowed to feel human emotions.  We are not allowed to have opinions.  We are supposed to be "robots" for the state.  Oh wait....is that what you really want?  

 

You are tired of me using "extreme cases" to defend LEO's that prove they are innocent 99.99999 percent of the time? How about I am personally tired of people like yourself using "extreme cases" to tear us down 99.999999 percent of the time.  Thousands of officers go to work everyday and do their job correctly and serve their community well, that is the fact of the matter whether you want to accept that or not.  You clearly don't.    

 

I don't really even know why I'm engaging with you at all.  You flat out stated a few posts ago, that you could really care less two innocent police officers got shot.  You (and a few others here) obviously have some irrational problem with LEO's that goes well beyond anything that should be considered normal.  Life is too short.  Every new incident reported (again before any facts even come out) starts the process all over again.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  I don't have the time or inclination to put the amount of effort into this discussion that you do....it's also plainly obvious there is no middle ground to be found between us.    You have your mind up and there is absolutely nothing I'm going to say that will change your mind or give you pause to stop and think, and to continue to attempt to do so would be an exercise in futility.  You are not going to convince me different of what I have learned from nearly two decades of hand-on experience in this line of work, experience I am quite certain you do not have.  

 

Keep hating complete strangers because they wear a badge.  We will still serve you regardless, because that is what we do.

[Burgold]

I think you're taking it too personally, Painkiller.

 

When I was a teacher I expected myself to be more than human. That is, no matter how rotten and provocative the kids were I tried always to keep my cool and composure. I expect the same of doctors, paramedics, and police officers. I think it's a standard most of them strive to reach also.

 

Now, after work I might scream, rant, and rail, but while I was on duty I was as fair, dispassionate, and reasonable as I could be.  I had to be... you don't get time outs, coffee breaks, etc. as a teacher. When you're in the classroom you can't leave.

[Commander PK]

I think you're taking it too personally, Painkiller

Perhaps...but if I am so are a handful of others here on the other side of the argument. The mere fact I always go toe to toe against the anti-cop horde here seems to infuriate some, which to some extent I admit does amuse me. In recent years the Tailgate has been in desperate need of an alternate viewpoint. There used to be a pretty even balance here. Not necessarily a gripe, just an observation. It is what it is.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Perhaps...but if I am so are a handful of others here on the other side of the argument. The mere fact I always go toe to toe against the anti-cop horde here seems to infuriate some, which to some extent I admit does amuse me. In recent years the Tailgate has been in desperate need of an alternate viewpoint. There used to be a pretty even balance here. Not necessarily a gripe, just an observation. It is what it is.

Perhaps the other side is taking it "too personal" because from their perspective, they're the ones that are consistently getting screwed.

 

Something to consider....

[Burgold]

 In recent years the Tailgate has been in desperate need of an alternate viewpoint. There used to be a pretty even balance here. Not necessarily a gripe, just an observation. It is what it is.

If so, that has more to do with modern conservatism. I remember back in the day that Bang, Mad Mike, and Tshille often proudly waved the flag of the right and fought for their positions.  Somehow, the conservative movement has gotten so severely pitched that even standard bearers  like Kilmer don't really cleave to anymore. In fact, Kilmer almost seems moderate. Only twa will fight for every red cause no matter how bloody or bizarre... and he does it more out of habit than amusement.

 

I really think this is a case where one needs to look in the mirror because healthy conservatism in philosophy and politics is a necessary ideology.

 

(apologies to any I've misnamed in the above paragraph. And further apologies to all I've left out because I know that there are many more turncoats as well as proud standard bearers here on ES.)

[tshile]

I think you're taking it too personally, Painkiller.

 

He should. I have never even worked in the field, only had family that has and know a lot that have, and I take it personally. The things people say about cops is ridiculous. There is a complete lack of respect for what it is they have to do on a regular basis, the people they have to deal with, or go through. You'd think, from the way some people talk about this, that we don't have bad criminals. Everyone just cooperates and admits fault when confronted. The cops just need to show up and ask questions, then politely ask them to ride along to the local jail when needed.

 

Do you have to put on a gun and a vest just to go to work? Do you have to argue with your wife about your chosen profession due to the dangers? Do you get spit on? Do people **** in your car and you have to clean it up? Do people with diseases lie to you about what they have in their pockets?

 

There are plenty of bad cops. But there's a lot of people that simply have no ****ing respect for what these people and their families go through and it's annoying to watch. If we didn't spend so much time on nonsense, we'd be able to actually get rid of the bad cops (and in cases where needed, entire departments.) Believe it or not - there's a lot of people in law enforcement that recognize the bad ones and would love to get them out of there.

 

From my perspective, it's sort of the same thing the GOP is notorious for doing to teachers. Complete lack of respect and recognition for the importance of the role and the need for quality people in that role, all to satisfy some narrative they want, done by taking extreme cases and projecting them across the entire field.

 

That said I only have that perspective and I realize that. I try to understand the other side, I absolutely concede that racism is a factor more than it should be. There are things I don't get/understand/are aware of simply because I didn't live through them. But it seems very rare to me when the other side concedes anything on the issue.

 

 Tshille often proudly waved the flag of the right and fought for their positions. 

 

Heh, there are quite a few people that think i'm some diehard democrat. It's quite amusing to see how others describe your political viewpoints

 

For what it's worth, I consider myself reluctantly right of center more than left of center, so you have it closer than most when it comes to what I think

[Commander PK]

Perhaps the other side is taking it "too personal" because from their perspective, they're the ones that are consistently getting screwed.

Something to consider....

Perhaps "my side" is taking it personal because every time something happens of note...it is portrayed by "your side" as indicative of the behaviors and actions of the larger Law Enforcement communities.

The large problem with this topic is it ALWAYS ends up as a discussion driven by people's strong emotional reactions to media coverage...a media who seems more interested in pushing the narrative and driving viewership than doing something as cumbersome as waiting for the facts to be revealed.

Strictly to the case that brought about this particular thread...Once we arrived to the part where Darren Wilson was cleared by the Department of Justice....did it really even matter anymore to the larger picture? Did the truth make any difference? No....because it was of no use.

[skinsmarydu]

Like Burgold has said, it's the bad apples that give the whole bunch a bad name.

 

I have no doubt that there are good officers.  I also know for a fact that there are ****ty ones.  (Like the one who told me that if I hadn't been standing at the bus stop where I was, I probably wouldn't have been robbed at gunpoint.)  I was in my own neighborhood.

 

I told him that if he did his job, my neighborhood wouldn't be considered a ****hole.

 

Said officer was a regular at the restaurant where I worked at the time.  After that small confrontation, for about a year,  he got his meal DEAD LAST, after everyone else at his table, per my kitchen manager.   Simply because he was a **** to me.  Considering the officers got a 50% discount, he was lucky to ever get anything. 

 

Screwing people over with words is just as damaging to our "respect" level. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Deleted post.

[Commander PK]

The things people say about cops is ridiculous. There is a complete lack of respect for what it is they have to do on a regular basis, the people they have to deal with, or go through. You'd think, from the way some people talk about this, that we don't have bad criminals. Everyone just cooperates and admits fault when confronted. The cops just need to show up and ask questions, then politely ask them to ride along to the local jail when needed.

 

There is a lot of truth to this statement.  Even reading this thread, it's obvious some people think that being a Law Enforcement Officer is just like any other job.  Like driving a truck for UPS, or screwing nuts on bolts on an assembly line, lol.  

 

I made the decision to do this for a living, just like every other person who wears a badge.  With that you do assume some risks.  All I would like is for people to acknowledge that being a Law Enforcement Officer is not like being a McDonald's store manager.  This is a very complicated and dangerous profession.  The "what do you want a cookie?  Just do something else" crowd also trips me out.  

 

As if it was that simple. 

[Commander PK]

I have no doubt that there are good officers.

 

You say this like they are hard to find or something.  

 

https://www.odmp.org/search?from=1791&to=2015&o=

 

116 Law Enforcement Officers have died on duty or in the line of duty already this year.  Several of these were Correctional Officers.  

 

Where is the outrage over these deaths?  

Where are the marches and protests on their behalf?

[TradeTheBeal!]

Police officers who are well-compensated and held to high standards of behavior and accountability will do good work and are a tremendous benefit to their communities.

Police officers that are overworked, underpaid and know that they can, quite literally, get away with murder are dangerous and destructive individuals.

This isn't about "good cops" or " bad cops". This is about work conditions and occupational culture. We can probably make some changes and fix it/make things better....if we want to.

[skinsmarydu]

You say this like they are hard to find or something.

Actually, NO I DIDN'T.

What I said was...

Like Burgold has said, it's the bad apples that give the whole bunch a bad name.

 

I have no doubt that there are good officers.

I know one...and even HE has been cited for using excessive force more than once. The other two (that I personally know) have retired.

I then gave a personal account of one who I do not believe is on the side of protecting the public...and when any police officer decides to berate someone about the area they live in & it's relativity to crime, that officer sucks.

That's where the outrage comes from.

[Commander PK]

I appreciate your experience Skins, and I'm sorry he was rude with you.  I have had bad experiences a few times with Doctors, Car Salesman, and even the kid who works the drive-thru at Taco Bell.  

 

I'm sure there are good kids working at Taco Bell.  However, this one brat put tomatoes on my Nachos Belle Grande one night when I specifically stated..."No Tomatoes"  I then took it back in...and he didn't even apologize, and acted like I should have just accepted it the way they prepared it.  These Taco Bell workers are out of control, we have to do something about these people.

 

...it's experiences like mine that lead to stereo-typing and generalizing of all fast food workers.  

 

All levity aside, I tend to think most people (even cops) are good people at heart, without having to produce evidence to prove that is true. I realize more is expected of us than the kid at Taco Bell, but I hope you can see my larger point.