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CNN: Protests play out in streets after teen is fatally shot by police

Sticksboi05

By Sticksboi05
in The Tailgate

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Commander PK

Commander PK

Posted
Posted

No, my first gig was working at McDonald's for 4 1/2 years while going to high school and college.  They were great for working around classes and what not.  I also had part time gigs at Pizza Hut and Subway for a while, so I appreciate all the hard work you had to put in.  30 years is a long time.  ;)

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skinsmarydu

skinsmarydu

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Posted

No, my first gig was working at McDonald's for 4 1/2 years while going to high school and college.  They were great for working around classes and what not.  I also had part time gigs at Pizza Hut and Subway for a while, so I appreciate all the hard work you had to put in.  30 years is a long time.   ;)

Thank you. Now appreciate all the hard work I put in for assholes to NOT protect my community, yet yield discounts for berating me.

Sucks, huh?

And it was just me & my cats...and 3 burglaries. Never got any of my **** back. They didn't care that THE WHITE LADY WAS TELLING THEM WHERE THE HOMELESS PEOPLE WERE LIVING, like right behind my house. That was the first time. Imagine my distress after the 2nd & 3rd.

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Commander PK

Commander PK

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Thank you. Now appreciate all the hard work I put in for assholes to NOT protect my community, yet yield discounts for berating me.

 

I thought just one asshole berated you and yielded a discount?  I'm sorry you didn't get your stuff back.  Did they steal any of your Malmsteen records as well?  

 

that would put me over the edge.

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skinsmarydu

skinsmarydu

Posted
Posted

Just one leads to another, which creates a trend.

What really blew one officer's mind is that they had packed all my backpacks with my canned food. And my change jar? Really heavy to carry, obviously an idiot. And all my hanging clothes (including hockey jerseys) were packed into my suitcase.

The first one got my gun. (And my underwear? Cuz that's where they think we keep our "important" stuff?)

Nope, Yngwie is intact. Always.

The cash was stashed in about 6 different places. None touched. I'm smart.

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted

I see Sisko.  Law Enforcement Officers are not allowed to be "sick and tired."  We are not allowed to feel human emotions.  We are not allowed to have opinions.  We are supposed to be "robots" for the state.  Oh wait....is that what you really want?  

 

You are tired of me using "extreme cases" to defend LEO's that prove they are innocent 99.99999 percent of the time? How about I am personally tired of people like yourself using "extreme cases" to tear us down 99.999999 percent of the time.  Thousands of officers go to work everyday and do their job correctly and serve their community well, that is the fact of the matter whether you want to accept that or not.  You clearly don't.

 I think you know exactly what I meant when I said that. However for the sake of clarity, I wasn't saying cops should be unfeeling automatons. What I meant was that you don't get to show outrage to your customers (the public) and you sure as hell don't get to beat the hell out of a certain percentage of them because of it. Yes, you as a human being will get frustrated, angry and upset at some of the people you deal with. You can **** about it to your colleagues, punch a wall here and there, sit in your car and scream and cuss or anything else you need to do that doesn't include brutalizing people. That's how those of us who don't wear a badge deal with it. What makes you all so special?

 

I love your "facts". In your case the term "fact" means something that you choose to believe without any basis other than your individual, anecdotal experience and observations. You and others keep saying police brutality and other forms of misconduct are rare. In my previous post I provided many examples of DOJ reports and individual incidents that say otherwise. Your response? "No...because I said so. And I'm angry that I have to keep saying it". I understand that you're frustrated with me and others on my side that keep bringing up uncomfortable hard data for you. However if all you have is shaking your head no, that's not going to convince anyone, me included. You and those on your side are going to have to come with some slightly stronger sauce.

 

He should. I have never even worked in the field, only had family that has and know a lot that have, and I take it personally. The things people say about cops is ridiculous. There is a complete lack of respect for what it is they have to do on a regular basis, the people they have to deal with, or go through. You'd think, from the way some people talk about this, that we don't have bad criminals. Everyone just cooperates and admits fault when confronted. The cops just need to show up and ask questions, then politely ask them to ride along to the local jail when needed....

 

...That said I only have that perspective and I realize that. I try to understand the other side, I absolutely concede that racism is a factor more than it should be. There are things I don't get/understand/are aware of simply because I didn't live through them. But it seems very rare to me when the other side concedes anything on the issue.

 Look, I worked at PG Hospital covering the ER for 5 years. I have a pretty good idea of the types of people cops have to deal with. I get that and I understand that dealing with those types isn't always going to be a calm, sedate affair. However those aren't the interactions I take issue with. As I've said before, I take issue with the police intentionally escalating situations, violating people's constitutional rights, etc.

 

I'll also take issue with you saying that it's rare that the other side concedes anything. In my case anyway, I've done so several times in this thread, including in the paragraph above. However as I mentioned in my reply to Painkiller above, I don't see your side countering with any actual data of any real value (see below for what I mean by this). And while I understand that there's a large part of the populace that jumps to condemn the police every time in there's an incident where they kill or injure someone, I'm generally not one of them. And when I do react that way, if facts come out that show otherwise, I'll readily accept it. As with Wilson, I may not care about them as individuals, but if there's nothing to prove that misconduct occurred I'm more than willing to live with the facts of the matter. Thing is, there's always another in a long line of police misconduct incidents coming down the pike each and every day which to some degree should give lie to the idea that police misconduct is some kind of four leaf clover. Yes, most cops do their job as they should. (<---See, that's another concession) However my problem is that too many of them don't.

 

You say this like they are hard to find or something.  

 

https://www.odmp.org/search?from=1791&to=2015&o=

 

116 Law Enforcement Officers have died on duty or in the line of duty already this year.  Several of these were Correctional Officers.  

 

Where is the outrage over these deaths?  

Where are the marches and protests on their behalf?

Sounds like a lot, huh? However this is a meaningless number without any context. Let me provide it for you. 

 

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:

1. Logging workers

2. Fishers and related fishing workers

3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers

4. Roofers

5. Structural iron and steel workers

6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors

7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers

8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers

9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers

10. Construction laborers

So yes, being a cop is a somewhat dangerous job, just not nearly as dangerous as some would have you believe.

 

Now regarding my prior contention that y'all get a free pass from the justice system, maybe seeing this will get a response:

022711_0854_TheProblemw2.png?f18c59

 

022711_0854_TheProblemw3.png?f18c59

 

Looks to me that if you want to get a light sentence for crime, you need to become a cop or CO. It seems to be the only case where excuses like "He had it tough" actually carry water with the criminal justice system. I mean, nobody would care that I had a bad childhood if I got caught committing a crime. Sadly, I'd argue that LEOs should be held to a higher standard than the general public given that they know the law better than the average Joe and they're expected to be upholding it, not breaking it.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

Now regarding my prior contention that y'all get a free pass from the justice system, maybe seeing this will get a response:

I will point out that your nifty chart might simply demonstrate that cops commit fewer crimes than everybody else.

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted

These are rates Larry. So yeah, maybe they do commit fewer crimes but when they are caught, they get convicted less often and serve less time when they are convicted. Now perhaps the former might mean they get charged more often for frivolous reasons but I seriously doubt that. However what could be the reason for the disparity in sentencing other than lenient treatment by the justice system? I admit there could be other reasons though. However I'll leave it to the other side to prove that.  :)

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Redskins3D

Redskins3D

Posted
Posted

"hands up, don't shoot" 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/philly-teens-murdered-married-dad-failed-robbery-cops-article-1.2156313

 

Two 15-year-old Philadelphia boys face murder charges for shooting a man while he walked his dog, firing the final round as he pleaded for his life, authorities said.

The cold-hearted teens and a 14-year-old boy targeted 51-year-old James Stuhlman for a robbery after they tired of playing basketball, police Captain James Clark told reporters.

“At one point, he did plead for his life,” Clark said Thursday at a news conference. “He said, ‘Please don’t shoot me, please don’t shoot me,’ and they shot still shot him one more time.”

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted

Since yyou were going to absurdistan, I felt obligated to tag along for the ride. If you'd clicked some of the links I posted earlier, you might have noticed that some of the victimsI cited were White and at least one of the cops was Black. So yeah, I clearly don't care about White people. [rolleyes] Or better yet, maybe you could just cut to the chase and accuse me of hating Whitey.

If it helps get your undies untwisted though, absolutely those kids should have the book thrown at them. Thing is, I doubt you'll respond with anything relevant to the OP since it doesn't advance your reverse racism whine fest.

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btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted

 

 

And it took me just 5 minutes to find all of these (in Baltimore and DC only.  Go to Detroit and Chicago and it just gets worse):

 

http://www.abc2news.com/news/crime-checker/baltimore-city-crime/police-investigate-suspected-double-shooting-in-baltimore

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/multiple-people-shot-in-baltimore/

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Homicide-Detectives-on-Scene-of-DC-Shooting-Capitol-Street-SE--290716041.html

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Two-People-Shot-Killed-in-DC-This-Weekend-288188411.html

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/28574668/metrobus-shooting-under-investigation-in-southeast

 

None of these involve any police.  Try to see the REAL problem in black communities (hint - not the police but the folks who live there) and you will see the REAL problem.

 

Blaming police is a nice, easy way to get around the prominent (means main) issue.

 

But hey, keep hating the police.  I know you will call them when 3 guys roll up on you in your car, late at night at a gas station.

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Larry

Larry

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Posted

 

None of these involve any police.  Try to see the REAL problem in black communities (hint - not the police but the folks who live there) and you will see the REAL problem.

 

Blaming police is a nice, easy way to get around the prominent (means main) issue.

 

But hey, keep hating the police.  I know you will call them when 3 guys roll up on you in your car, late at night at a gas station.

Wow. I love it. The old "as long as I can find a problem which I claim is bigger, no other problem may be mentioned" piece of "logic".

And I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that the "real" problem with black neighborhoods is that they're full of black people, quite so . . . . transparently.

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btfoom

btfoom

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Posted

Wow. I love it. The old "as long as I can find a problem which I claim is bigger, no other problem may be mentioned" piece of "logic".

And I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that the "real" problem with black neighborhoods is that they're full of black people, quite so . . . . transparently.

 

Sadly, I thought you were beyond this.

 

I only posted these items in response to Sisko's response, nothing more.

 

Do you expect less of him?  

 

I never said anything like your suggestion of "as long as I can find a problem which I claim is bigger, no other problem may be mentioned" piece of "logic" at all.  This is just you introducing a straw-man argument into this discussion.

 

I will slow it down for you so you can understand.

 

Sisko posted lots of links that supposedly show how police treat blacks badly.  He even said it took him "ten minutes to find" all of these items.

 

I simply showed how in half the time, in only 2 cities, there were more stories about MORE black people being killed than in the stories he found.  I then pointed out the issue where some people, him included, seemed to care more about the police than the actual lives of the people being attacked.  

 

I will say the same thing to him as I said to you - why is the focus on police force and not on the MUCH bigger issue - black on black crime?  I ask because HE brought up the amount of news items, not me.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

Sadly, I thought you were beyond this.

 

I only posted these items in response to Sisko's response, nothing more.

Yes, I'm quite aware of which discussion you were attempting to prevent people from discussing.

 

I never said anything like your suggestion of "as long as I can find a problem which I claim is bigger, no other problem may be mentioned" piece of "logic" at all.  This is just you introducing a straw-man argument into this discussion.

Yes, you absolutely did.

When he posted evidence of a problem, and you responded by trying to prevent that problem from being discussed, by pointing at "the real problem".

Guess what? Unarmed people getting shot by cops is a real problem.  Even if it doesn't kill as many people as drunk drivers. 

 

I will slow it down for you so you can understand.

 

I'll point out how your next post is full of BS, too. 

 

Sisko posted lots of links that supposedly show how police treat blacks badly.

 

 

Funny, I've looked at the three links he posted, about police officers. 

 

1)  They don't "supposedly" show anything.  They flat-out show two assaults.  (The first one, I don't think is nearly so clear cut.) 

 

2)  And two of the three victims sure look white, to me. 

 

Didn't watch them, before deciding to throw the word "supposedly" in there, and telling us what you assume he showed, did you? 

 

I simply showed how in half the time, in only 2 cities, there were more stories about MORE black people being killed than in the stories he found.

 

 

So, you're saying that my characterization of your post was 100% accurate, aren't you?  Thank you.

 

He posted a problem. 

 

You attempted to block discussion of that problem, by coming up with what you said was a bigger problem. 

 

Which is exactly what I said you did. 

 

I then pointed out the issue where some people, him included, seemed to care more about the police than the actual lives of the people being attacked.  

 

 

I believe you were saying something about straw men? 

 

I will say the same thing to him as I said to you - why is the focus on police force and not on the MUCH bigger issue - black on black crime? 

 

 

1)  Because it's not reasonable to expect all crime to end.  It is reasonable to expect cops to not be committing felonies. (Or at least, it seems reasonable to me.)

 

2)  Because one problem is not being committed by my government, and one is. 

 

3)  Because one problem is admitted, by pretty much everybody, to be wrong.  Whereas when people say that the other one is wrong, people like you try to argue against that notion. 

 

4)  Because one of them probably isn't targeting their victims because of their race.  And one of them, very obviously, is. 

 

5)  Because one of them is the topic being discussed in this thread.  And the other is a standard deflection tactic, used to try to stop people from talking about the topic. 

 

There's probably some more reasons.  But those should be enough, for now. 

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted

Larry, you channeled me bro. I intentionally did two things with the examples I posted. One, I made a point of picking a diverse group of victims and cops so that the race issue could be discounted to a degree. Second, I intentionally posted links instead of embedding the video so that the schlubs who trot out the Black on Black crime red herring as a thoughtless, knee-jerk response would expose themselves. However since I specifically mentioned that in my response to Redskins3D, btfoom wins the Super Schlub award. Self pwnage is a beautiful thing :)

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Commander PK

Commander PK

Posted
Posted
 

 I think you know exactly what I meant when I said that. However for the sake of clarity, I wasn't saying cops should be unfeeling automatons. What I meant was that you don't get to show outrage to your customers (the public) and you sure as hell don't get to beat the hell out of a certain percentage of them because of it. Yes, you as a human being will get frustrated, angry and upset at some of the people you deal with. You can **** about it to your colleagues, punch a wall here and there, sit in your car and scream and cuss or anything else you need to do that doesn't include brutalizing people. That's how those of us who don't wear a badge deal with it. What makes you all so special?
 
I love your "facts". In your case the term "fact" means something that you choose to believe without any basis other than your individual, anecdotal experience and observations. You and others keep saying police brutality and other forms of misconduct are rare. In my previous post I provided many examples of DOJ reports and individual incidents that say otherwise. Your response? "No...because I said so. And I'm angry that I have to keep saying it". I understand that you're frustrated with me and others on my side that keep bringing up uncomfortable hard data for you. However if all you have is shaking your head no, that's not going to convince anyone, me included. You and those on your side are going to have to come with some slightly stronger sauce.

 

Well, I guess it was time for me to offer some data myself, because I guess for some it's important for "my side" to show some solid evidence of what I believe most people already know...just not here in the Extremeskins tailgate, and that is the over-whelming majority of Law Enforcement Officers are good, decent, and upstanding people who serve their communities with pride and distinction. Most of these stories are local ones that never make the national news.  Is it logical to assume that most of these officers... like the white officer who pushed a black man in a wheelchair across the road, or the one who bought the eggs for the woman who was caught red-handed shop lifting them instead of charging her, or the one who bought the mom a car seat instead of writing her a ticket, or the white cop Officer Jeremy Henwood who was asked by a young black boy in McDonald's for 10 cents, because he wanted to buy some cookies and was a little short...and the officer bought the cookies for him instead, just minutes before Officer Henwood was killed by a shotgun blast right outside the restaurant, his McDonald's dinner never even removed from the bag...are all really just bad people trying to mask their evil deeds with simple good ones?  Is it logical to assume that these people are minority beating thugs in disguise?  Even the minority officers themselves?

 

All in the eye of the beholder I guess...

 

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/12/11/officer-buys-shoplifting-woman-eggs-good-deed-goes-viral/21114860/

 

http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/unified-police-officer-caught-doing-good-deed/26363/sDiakLlFG0K4tkgkRQW4Xw

 

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/opinion/readers/2014/11/04/montgomery-police-officer-spotted-good-deed/18482423/

 

http://wric.com/2014/02/11/richmond-police-officers-good-deed-goes-viral/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2PT8xBAx8g

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYQ8daueVKg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92w4dARAeqk

 

http://patch.com/michigan/northville/cops-good-deed-circles-globe-0

 

http://www.wowktv.com/story/26768053/charleston-police-officer

 

http://viralityfacts.com/people/17-police-officers-doing-good-deeds/

 

http://wivb.com/2014/06/26/photo-captures-police-officer-doing-good-deed/

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-lauded-kindness-queens-man-article-1.2000600

 

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26690258/three-denver-cops-honored-good-deeds

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/03/cops-good-deed-goes-viral/

 

http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/florida-deputy-different-kind-cop-known-good-deeds/

 

http://www.wimp.com/gooddeed/

 

http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico/albuquerque/Good-Deed-Cop/25576140

 

http://thegrio.com/2014/05/16/police-officer-good-deed-viral-non-profit/

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/texas-police-officer-gives-man-100-along-with-ticket/

 

and not to leave out us "salt of the earth" Correctional Officers who have far less contact in an official capacity with the general public

 

http://bossip.com/364758/a-lil-positivity-an-off-duty-corrections-officer-saves-bleeding-infant-from-car-wreckage-43081/

 

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1996-07-04/news/9607040298_1_upson-jail-feeding-the-homeless

 

http://www.odmp.org/officer/16028-correctional-officer-aaron-michael-schoffstall

 

There are also numerous cases of inmates saving officers from assaults that would and should have killed them.  Would the inmates do this if "prison guards" were all bad people who love beating and hurting vulnerable people?

 

For every link you can post showing an officer doing something negative, I could find twice as many for them doing something good.  For my fellow Officers and I, every year we donate thousands of dollars worth of toys to needy kids at Christmas time through the Children's Aide Society.  We participate in Christmas in April where we all go out and fix up a needy persons home.  We participate in Charity Runs/Walks for the Special Olympics...all of this on our own time, and no I don't want a cookie or pat on the back.  I have to put these things out there so people can see another perspective here.  

 

Now tell me what I don't know again?

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Commander PK

Commander PK

Posted
Posted

Wow. I love it. The old "as long as I can find a problem which I claim is bigger, no other problem may be mentioned" piece of "logic".

And I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that the "real" problem with black neighborhoods is that they're full of black people, quite so . . . . transparently.

 

 

Are you really going to say Larry that black on black crime in black communities IS NOT a bigger problem than this one?  Dare I pull up the national homicide rates again?  

 

While there is a better way of putting what I think he was trying to say...it's not the fact that their skin is "black" that is causing the problems in many black communities, it is the socio-economic issues that plague them.  Now we could get on that topic and what led us to that and how we can improve in that area, but this is a thread that is only allowed to discuss the fact that occasionally white cops have to kill black suspects.  Bringing up any other factor is off limits, and you are a stickler for "staying on topic."  

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