NFL QBs Ranked By Tier [Rated By GMs, HCs, Execs, etc] [ESPN Insider] (RG3 3rd Tier)

[StephenDavis]

As unbiased as I can be with RGIII with me being a skins fan I really do think he's going to blow up this year. Even last year when he was afraid to drive off of his back foot in the pocket he was still able to make some really good throws. I believe that Jay Gruden is going to put RGIII in situations to be successful which means RGIII getting the ball out quickly. The Desean Jackson acquisition is what is really going to make things tick. Teams aren't going to be able to put 8 defenders in the box to stop Morris because of Jackson's ability to burn defenses deep. The play action is then going to freeze defenders similar to 2012 when we were running the zone read and RGIII is going to have wide open lanes to hit his receivers in stride. We might have the best offense in the league this season. Can't wait for all of the RGIII and Redskin haters to eat crow this year.

[clskinsfan]

I knew it was going to be Luck.  So many riders on the Luck bandwagon.  I like Luck, I think he will have a really really good career but I can't believe so many people practically give him Elite status already.  He plays in probably the worse division the NFL has ever seen in the last 5 years.  He has shown some decent flashes, but not Tier 1 or Elite status yet.

 

Its not like RG3 is playing in a lights out division either. Every Defense in the NFCE last year was ranked in the bottom of the league and he couldnt take advantage of it. Bottom line: Luck has outplayed Griffin considerably to this point. Granted Griffin was injured but he plays a style that can lead to more injuries. Luck is light years ahead of Griffin in the pocket.

[darrelgreenie]

Bottom line: Luck has outplayed Griffin considerably to this point. Granted Griffin was injured but he plays a style that can lead to more injuries. Luck is light years ahead of Griffin in the pocket.

That's an interesting stance. You are saying not only has Luck has out played Griffin but he's done so considerably? I am interested in this view.

Do you have anything further to support this statement or is it just empty rhetoric?

Lets not forget Griffin did beat Luck out for rookie of the year. I would really like to see what Luck has done to considerably outplay Griffin since then?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Its not like RG3 is playing in a lights out division either. Every Defense in the NFCE last year was ranked in the bottom of the league and he couldnt take advantage of it. Bottom line: Luck has outplayed Griffin considerably to this point. Granted Griffin was injured but he plays a style that can lead to more injuries. Luck is light years ahead of Griffin in the pocket.

 

For me, I can't possibly compare the two QBs after just their first 2 years. Their circumstances were wildly different. Saddle Luck with a serious knee injury, have him come back to playing only 9 months after surgery, have him miss the entire offseason and pre-season in terms of reps, practice and development, let his team have to deal with a suffocating $18 mil cap penalty tying their hands in free agency, throw historically putrid special teams play onto his plate that constantly puts the team in a hole, and add in an unhealthy and unstable coaching atmosphere to deal with, and we'll see how well Luck does.

 

Anyone expecting Griffin to overcome all of that in his 2nd year in the league and lift the team to anything close to respectable had to have been dilusional lol...

 

I know we all love to marginalize the accomplishments of Redskins players when the team overall doesn't do well, but let's not forget that RG3 had the most efficient season ever by a QB in the history of the NFL his rookie season, just two years ago (not saying you marginalized anything, just saying in general)...

[Taylor703]

Whatever you say, man. Didn't realize you knew more than all the head coaches, GMs, and execs around the league.

I guess Cam should be rated higher, huh?I have no idea what you're talking about.

As far as the Elway comment: it is my understanding that statement was made just prior to the draft.

Oh come on Bubble, even you can admit this top-5 ranking is ridiculous. Andrew Luck is the most overrated player since Eli Manning. He's an above average player, which the numbers completely support, that gets placed over players he doesn't belong being ranked higher than. I literally have no idea what these guys see that has them so smitten with him but I can also take into account these are the same guys that started arguing Eli was better than Peyton...

[KuNiT21]

Its not like RG3 is playing in a lights out division either. Every Defense in the NFCE last year was ranked in the bottom of the league and he couldnt take advantage of it. Bottom line: Luck has outplayed Griffin considerably to this point. Granted Griffin was injured but he plays a style that can lead to more injuries. Luck is light years ahead of Griffin in the pocket.

 

Who are you arguing with?  I didn't even mention RG3 in my entire post let alone comparing the two.  But for the sake of arguing are you suggesting that the AFC South has been better than the NFC East in the last 5 years?  Or the 2 years Luck has been in the league?

[NewCliche21]

Eh, these things don't always have to devolve into a Luck vs. Griffin debate.  Both are really good young quarterbacks with bright futures.  Luck is a more conventional quarterback, which might give him an edge in these types of surveys. 

 

The Luck vs. Griffin debate is idiotic altogether.  If we were the Colts and had the choice, then there's a point in arguing (like the choice we had with Wilson still on the board), but we didn't have the chance to take Luck.

[NewCliche21]

Whatever you say, man. Didn't realize you knew more than all the head coaches, GMs, and execs around the league.

I guess Cam should be rated higher, huh?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

As far as the Elway comment: it is my understanding that statement was made just prior to the draft.

 

LOL, Luck was going to be first overall in 2011, even according to ESPN:  http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5995754

 

You act like you're the only guy who spotted Luck being talented, and that's what makes everyone mock you.  If you would've gotten Brady right, then yeah, more power to you, but you didn't.  

 

As for the Elway comment, you're late to the party, again: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/952477-stanford-football-could-andrew-luck-have-a-better-nfl-career-than-john-elway

 

Pointing out that Luck is talented, and then mocking others who don't think he's a god, is just stupid.

That's an interesting stance. You are saying not only has Luck has out played Griffin but he's done so considerably? I am interested in this view.

Do you have anything further to support this statement or is it just empty rhetoric?

Lets not forget Griffin did beat Luck out for rookie of the year. I would really like to see what Luck has done to considerably outplay Griffin since then?

 

The article this whole thread is about, dumbass!

 

/sarcasm

[darrelgreenie]

....The article this whole thread is about, dumbass!

?

[clskinsfan]

That's an interesting stance. You are saying not only has Luck has out played Griffin but he's done so considerably? I am interested in this view.

Do you have anything further to support this statement or is it just empty rhetoric?

Lets not forget Griffin did beat Luck out for rookie of the year. I would really like to see what Luck has done to considerably outplay Griffin since then?

 

I'm Not trying to pick a fight. And I am happy we have Griffin. He is clearly the best QB we have had since Mark Rypien's ridiculous year. But Luck improved dramatically in his second season. He cut his turnovers in half, increased his QB rating and accounted for 27 td's in his second campaign. Griffin regressed, in every category. He has fumbled 23 times in his career. Now a point could be made that was due to injury. But how do we really know that for sure? How do we KNOW Griffin will return to his 2012 self? He will be running a true pro offense now. Something he has never done. I believe in Griffin. But I dont know if this year will be spectacular. It kind of goes back to some of my posts in 2012. I was obviously elated we won the division. But a part of me wishes we would have just taken our lumps and had Griffin run a pro offense from the beginning. In a way the past 2 years were wasted development for him.

The Luck vs. Griffin debate is idiotic altogether.  If we were the Colts and had the choice, then there's a point in arguing (like the choice we had with Wilson still on the board), but we didn't have the chance to take Luck.

 

Comparing Griffin to other Qb's is kinda what this thread is about?

[darrelgreenie]

I'm Not trying to pick a fight. And I am happy we have Griffin. He is clearly the best QB we have had since Mark Rypien's ridiculous year. But Luck improved dramatically in his second season. He cut his turnovers in half, increased his QB rating and accounted for 27 td's in his second campaign. Griffin regressed, in every category. He has fumbled 23 times in his career. Now a point could be made that was due to injury. But how do we really know that for sure? How do we KNOW Griffin will return to his 2012 self? He will be running a true pro offense now. Something he has never done. I believe in Griffin. But I dont know if this year will be spectacular. It kind of goes back to some of my posts in 2012. I was obviously elated we won the division......

We can have a discussion there need not be a fight. Nor do you have to pronounce your faith in Griffin.

My question isn't about whether Luck improved or whether Griffin regressed or why; nor is it about what Griffin might do this year. All those are fine issues.

 

I am simply curious what in your opinion represents the delta that causes Luck to have 'considerably outplayed' Griffin in your eyes.

You mention fumbles? Is fumbles the sole criteria that shows this 'considerable' difference between the two?

 

Here I'll do some of the heavy lifting......I assume I don't need re-hash Griffin record setting rookie year?

 

Griff--63%---6,403 yards---36 TDs--17 INTs---92 Passer rating...1,304 rush yards---7 TDs--64 FDs (4 fewer regular season games)

Luck--57%---8,196 yards---46 TDs--27 INTs---82 Passer Rating...632 rush yards-----9 TDs--46 FDs

 

I don't see 'considerable outplayed' above.*shrugs*

 

Outplayed? Maybe...Luck has more TDs but those aare offset by his 10 more INTs. Luck has more passing yards (but has also played 4 more games) and passing yards really aren't that meaningful in terms of quality. Comp % is often used as hallmark stat and as a measure of 'accuracy' (ironically it seems for every QB except Luck) and Griffin is ahead there. Passer rating? Griffin is ahead there too. Rushing yards and rushing 1st downs? Griffin is ahead there too. Luck does however have more rushing TDs.

 

 

But a part of me wishes we would have just taken our lumps and had Griffin run a pro offense from the beginning. In a way the past 2 years were wasted development for him.

We are in 100% agreement here. I do question whether/why the Shanahan's built such an emphasis on read-option as they did, in a way you're kinda preaching to the preacher on this topic:

http://es.redskins.com/topic/374734-the-easy-way-out-or-why-did-the-offense-feature-read-option/

http://es.redskins.com/topic/374998-one-fans-look-to-the-futurerobert-griffin/?p=9664169

 

But I still think Griffin did build a valuable base of knowledge as a QB. In fact I think he's further along then Dalton when it comes to reading his progression and coming off his 1st read when its not there.

[NewCliche21]

The article this whole thread is about, dumbass!

 

/sarcasm

 

 

?

 

I think you missed the second line.  It was mocking those who base their opinions on articles like these.

[Bubble Screen]

LOL, Luck was going to be first overall in 2011, even according to ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5995754

You act like you're the only guy who spotted Luck being talented, and that's what makes everyone mock you. If you would've gotten Brady right, then yeah, more power to you, but you didn't.

Pointing out that Luck is talented, and then mocking others who don't think he's a god, is just stupid.

Dude, when I said I've been following Luck "since his days at Stanford", I was referring to when he first GOT THERE. I wasn't saying I thought he was going to be good AFTER his days at Stanford.

So like I said, not everyone knew he would be this good. Hell, you are a STILL in denial about how good the guy is. And darrelgreenie actually thinks TANNEHILL is as good a QB as Luck LMAO. I'm not making that up, btw lol.

And show me where I said, or implied. that Luck was "a god". You got issues, man. Seriously, do you browse threads with the sole purpose of trying to start a fight? At any rate, I'd advise you to try reading what a poster writes and not what you 'think' they are trying to say. Things will go a lot smoother for you.

[darrelgreenie]

Actually no BS, I think Luck is better then Tannehill. But I do have them on the same tier and there was a point in time (after the Tannehill Dolphins beat Luck Colts) that Luck and Tannehill statistical production was almost identical. Mark my words there will come a time when the mainstream sports media recognizes Tannehill as being on the same tier as the other young guns including Luck.

[peanut0862]

The thing I like about Luck is his knack for game winning drives according to Pro-Football Reference.com he has 8 4th qt game winners  that's pretty good in 2 years

[HTTRDynasty]

The thing I like about Luck is his knack for game winning drives according to Pro-Football Reference.com he has 8 4th qt game winners  that's pretty good in 2 years

 

Mostly because the turnovers he commits puts his team behind in the first place.

[Mahons21]

Simple stat that shows why Luck is on a different planet than other young QBs.  Games won when throwing 30+ passes, or 25+ passes.  Colts win when Luck throws a lot, these other young guys rarely throw as much, and when they do it's only in losses.  

 

Another simple thing that set Luck apart is his footwork.  Watch how he manipulates the pocket, climbs the pocket, changes his base as he goes through progressions.  He's absolutely masterful, his eyes remain downfield, and he delivers strikes.

 

What Luck has been asked to do is far more difficult than what any of there other young QBs have been asked to do, I felt this way after Roberts spectacular season, and do to this day.  He's been asked to lead a pass heavy offense since day one.

 

He will be the next Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees, these other guys could reach that level, but there are far more question marks about their game today.  

 

If I'm starting a team today, and the goal is to contend for the playoffs time and again over the next decade, I'm taking Luck first overall no questions asked.  

[Koolblue13]

He was average to bad last year, had attitude problems with his coach and led a team to 3 wins. I can understand the ranking.

However, the players giving him a high ranking means a lot more to me and I agree his ceiling is very high. Let's hope he can put it together this year and next year, we'll hear a different tune.

We'd have won more games with Jason vanilla boring Campbell last year.

[dchogs]

Dude, when I said I've been following Luck "since his days at Stanford", I was referring to when he first GOT THERE. I wasn't saying I thought he was going to be good AFTER his days at Stanford.

So like I said, not everyone knew he would be this good. Hell, you are a STILL in denial about how good the guy is. And darrelgreenie actually thinks TANNEHILL is as good a QB as Luck LMAO. I'm not making that up, btw lol.

And show me where I said, or implied. that Luck was "a god". You got issues, man. Seriously, do you browse threads with the sole purpose of trying to start a fight? At any rate, I'd advise you to try reading what a poster writes and not what you 'think' they are trying to say. Things will go a lot smoother for you.

lolz... i saw luck throw a rope from one knee in pop warner on a black and white tv when i was in Nam and KNEW he was going to be something special right then and there. get with it son, you're late to the party. you're talkin' about STANFORD? lolzy lolz.

[Bubble Screen]

Simple stat that shows why Luck is on a different planet than other young QBs. Games won when throwing 30+ passes, or 25+ passes. Colts win when Luck throws a lot, these other young guys rarely throw as much, and when they do it's only in losses.

Another simple thing that set Luck apart is his footwork. Watch how he manipulates the pocket, climbs the pocket, changes his base as he goes through progressions. He's absolutely masterful, his eyes remain downfield, and he delivers strikes.

What Luck has been asked to do is far more difficult than what any of there other young QBs have been asked to do, I felt this way after Roberts spectacular season, and do to this day. He's been asked to lead a pass heavy offense since day one.

He will be the next Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees, these other guys could reach that level, but there are far more question marks about their game today.

If I'm starting a team today, and the goal is to contend for the playoffs time and again over the next decade, I'm taking Luck first overall no questions asked.

Someone gets it. Especially the part about him being asked to do more than the other young QBs.

It's pretty sad that people don't understand that.

Mostly because the turnovers he commits puts his team behind in the first place.

He cut his turnovers in half from his rookie season to last. Also think he had the fewest turnovers of all starting QBs last year.

Nice try.

[MumboSauce]

As much as I like RG3, I'd take Luck over him as the Colts did(it's close though for me, not clear cut)...that said, I don't think Luck is in the Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers category (yet).

 

I think Robert is going to prove a lot of his detractors wrong though. So long as he's healthy, he has what it takes.

[Taylor703]

Simple stat that shows why Luck is on a different planet than other young QBs.  Games won when throwing 30+ passes, or 25+ passes.  Colts win when Luck throws a lot, these other young guys rarely throw as much, and when they do it's only in losses.  

 

Another simple thing that set Luck apart is his footwork.  Watch how he manipulates the pocket, climbs the pocket, changes his base as he goes through progressions.  He's absolutely masterful, his eyes remain downfield, and he delivers strikes.

 

What Luck has been asked to do is far more difficult than what any of there other young QBs have been asked to do, I felt this way after Roberts spectacular season, and do to this day.  He's been asked to lead a pass heavy offense since day one.

 

He will be the next Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees, these other guys could reach that level, but there are far more question marks about their game today.  

 

If I'm starting a team today, and the goal is to contend for the playoffs time and again over the next decade, I'm taking Luck first overall no questions asked.

So wait a minute, his pass attempts put him on another planet? Not the fact that he's a career below 60% passer, has 8 interceptions in 3 playoff games and has an 81 career passer rating...

[Mahons21]

Not attempts, the correlation between high attempts and wins. The correlation suggest many things, two of the most important are that a.) the colts gameplan is centered around Luck the passer, b.) despite being a rookie and not being eased into a lead role right away Luck has achieved high levels of success.

PR and comp % are awful indicators of QB performance, and even worse when used together in an argument. For one PR is heavily weighted by comp %, and in addition a QB can achieve a high comp % and high PR by completing easy throws, all the while more or less being hidden by their respective team.

I can point out numerous poor/average QBs who've attained a good comp % and PR(Jason Campbell comes to mind). How many QBs can you find that have a 2:1 W/L ratio with 25+ pass attempts that you would consider an average QB?

Christian Ponder, Matt Flynn, Sam Bradford, and Carson Palmer also also candidates of average QBs with high comp %

[Taylor703]

So we're basically going to discount every traditionally used statistical measure in the case of Andrew Luck but it's perfectly okay to use W/L record even though that's based more on a full team effort?

[rskin72]

I just cannot get to worked up over some pre-season opinion poll on qb rankings that have our third year qb at 19. Just from reading some of the comments....seems like folks without a finger on the pulse of the team were making judgements. Ok....your opinion is noted.

There will be plenty of time for opinions to be proven wrong and inaccurate perceptions to be changed....starting with this season.