RandyHolt Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 my question about PFF has always been "who are these folks doing the analysis ? what is their background ? are they even remotely qualified to accurately assess what they are supposedly watching ? anyone can rate anything. qualified analysis is much, much more credible in my opinion. I used to wonder too. Rest assured, Its just a guy. Blame the internet where all suddenly have a voice. After enough time, I have found I trust the writing of many, including here, more than paid pundits that never shut up and often have an agenda or blindly tow the party line. Back to PFF, and grading fault in a sack... dare I think the most qualified person is not an expert on the matter without knowing the play/line call. Sites like PFF provide a starting point. I appreciate their efforts. Few seem able to prove them wrong. Finding grades for OL seem very difficult and sites that try get the benefit of the doubt until a more respected site emerges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Assuming I'm understanding them (and not making an *** out of myself)... Regarding the grade on Griffin, I don't think it makes sense to average out his two years considering his second year was without an offseason, he was coming off major surgery and coincided with failure at virtually every aspect of the team from the head coach to the punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Assuming I'm understanding them (and not making an *** out of myself)... Regarding the grade on Griffin, I don't think it makes sense to average out his two years considering his second year was without an offseason, he was coming off major surgery and coincided with failure at virtually every aspect of the team from the head coach to the punter. I kindof agree with you, but if you're projecting a grade for 2014 on Griffin, you can't just take the 2012 grade, because 2013 happened. I don't think you can take 2013, because of all the situations surrounding it. So, average is probably fair. It's almost an "incomplete" grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 ratings by anonymous internet "analysts" don't seem credible at all to me. Still on the PFF hate bandwagon I see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I kindof agree with you, but if you're projecting a grade for 2014 on Griffin, you can't just take the 2012 grade, because 2013 happened. I don't think you can take 2013, because of all the situations surrounding it. So, average is probably fair. It's almost an "incomplete" grade. Fair enough. Personally, I'd take the healthy season (AKA the non FUBARed season) and give a small bump (down) for the other season. Otherwise it seems like trying to average an A+ and an incomplete grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I was told we'd see some blue on this thing this year. What happened? Kyle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFC Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The only one that really bothers me is Morris. No way will you convince me he is not ELITE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Overall - offense looks better than the defense especially at the skill positions. If the scheme can help the offensive line out and say Spencer Long can step up and beat out one of Chester or Lauvao we will have good to very good offense. If RGIII bounces back to close to 2012 level we could be elite on offense. Not sure how you grade Aldrick Robinson as better than Andre Roberts. Defense looks a concern still. If Hatcher plays up to the level he was at in Dallas the last couple of years he along with Cofield will give us much better push inside up front and that will make the outside rush much better. Still a concern though about the 3rd D'Line spot and depth - if Cofield or Hatcher get hurt it will be hard to overcome. Encouraged to see Akeem Jordan rated as an average starter - if he's our depth at ILB we might be in better shape there than I thought. The secondary looks still be a concern - I think Amerson will be fine personally but he has to prove it and safety is going to need some sticky tape and a bit of luck to hold it all together. I think we are going to see some scoring this year in Redskins games - good and bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I may be the only one but I am not yet sold on Morris as elite. After 2 years only - elite - seems like a fan playing his fan card. I would like to see less fumbles, and more focus when catching the ball, before I put him into an elite status. Tracy Porter... below average starter. Yes I understand he is not starting technically since starting lineups only ft. 2 corners, but as a nickel in reality he may well be starting many weeks. Is the consensus here that he is better than Josh Wilson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Assuming I'm understanding them (and not making an *** out of myself)... Regarding the grade on Griffin, I don't think it makes sense to average out his two years considering his second year was without an offseason, he was coming off major surgery and coincided with failure at virtually every aspect of the team from the head coach to the punter. I don't think PFF looks at anything other then the on the field production. Knee/Mike Shanahan/Offseason are all valid reasons for decline in performance but every player's season has a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepball1 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 so Chester is listed as a starter. Trent Williams is a Pro Bowl tackle. Louvea is a big guy, with a bit of a ****y attitude and we will see how he works out since he now has 4 years experience and is in his Prime years, Kory has added 10 pounds or so and is in his new position....and Polumbus is possibly better than some of us give him credit. BUT CHESTER....don't know anything about his off season. Did he put on weight? Did he get stronger? Or is this the same ole' guy that had problems last year? It is odd that I haven't read anything about Chester making improvements or dedicating himself to putting on muscle or new techniques or anything at all. Has anybody esle heard anything or are we stuck with the same Chester as last year, unless Long beats him out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I don't think PFF looks at anything other then the on the field production. Knee/Mike Shanahan/Offseason are all valid reasons for decline in performance but every player's season has a story. Taking the injury into consideration, we’re going with the light green category, not as high as his 2012 season deserved, but higher than he would have gotten had 2013′s struggles not come with the injury asterisk. - per the PFF article. So they're saying that averaging the two season would have earned him a ranking of average (at best) if they didn't factor in the injury. Can't say I agree with that. To play Devil's advocate though, one could argue that much of Griffin's success was tied to the Read Option and lack of tape on Griffin (not to mention Morris and the Pistol). Personally, in grading Griffin, I'd call his level of play somewhere between 'good' and 'very good' with an * for the knee injury etc. so Chester is listed as a starter. Trent Williams is a Pro Bowl tackle. Louvea is a big guy, with a bit of a ****y attitude and we will see how he works out since he now has 4 years experience and is in his Prime years, Kory has added 10 pounds or so and is in his new position....and Polumbus is possibly better than some of us give him credit. BUT CHESTER....don't know anything about his off season. Did he put on weight? Did he get stronger? Or is this the same ole' guy that had problems last year? It is odd that I haven't read anything about Chester making improvements or dedicating himself to putting on muscle or new techniques or anything at all. Has anybody esle heard anything or are we stuck with the same Chester as last year, unless Long beats him out? Starting to think we're stuck with Chester, but there's also Gettis and LeRibeus (as well as Long). Personally, I'd go with a younger guy and suck up the possible short term difficulties for a better chance at improvement going forward. Almost makes you wonder if Chester had some undisclosed health issue the way they 1) kept him and 2) aren't really trying others at 1st string. Of course maybe they are trying others there just not during open sessions... but that seems doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepball1 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Hey Skinny that's why I asked. Seems like the Chester news has been hidden or avoided. Nobody talks about him and I have not seen one single interview with him. Saw Silverback, saw interview with Lauveu, saw Kory Lic being interviewed, watched an interview with Polumbus, saw Long interviewed, Moses, but not one single word out of Chester. Even saw Gruden talking about Leribius. But Chester....still nothing. He is the Mystery Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Yeah, it is a bit strange. So, if you're looking at versatility on the oline, who do you keep? (I was gonna stop there and leave the post short and sweet, but I got caught up... whoops ) Center: LeRibeus played some center last offseason and Gettis and Chester can supposedly play center. Lichtensteiger is the front runner, but supposedly McGlynn is a decent C (and a better C than G) and has a chance to claim the starting role. I don't like the idea of McGlynn playing G, but he seems like a better candidate at backup C than the others. G: As of now, the assumption is Lauvao at LG and Chester at RG. Long, Gettis and probably LeRibeus could all fight Chester for the job. If Chester loses the starting spot, I'd guess he would be released... unless he plays a G/C backup role. Tackle: I think it would be smart to keep 4 this year. Let Compton back up Trent (unless Foerster believes he has a good chance at unseating Polumbus) and let Moses develop behind Polumbus. Practicing both LT and RT seems like a lot for a rook, even one that's played both. Then there's Hurt, our only G/T (though some believe Polumbus (and Compton?) might be able to fill that role. So far though we've only seen Hurt play both. If the team opts to keep 8, I think they keep Williams, Lauvao, Lich., Long Polumbus/Compton*, Moses, Hurt and McGlynn/Gettis** (Long, Gettis and McGlynn fight for starting RG. (3 tackles, 2 guards, 1 C, 1 G/T, 1 G/C) If 9: First 3 stay the same, they keep the other 3 tackles (which renders Hurt less useful), Chester, Long and McGlynn/Gettis/LeRibeus make it. (4 tackles, 3 guards, 1 C, 1 G/C) If 10: Williams, Lauvao, Lich., Chester, Polumbus, Moses, Long, Compton/Hurt, and 2 of LeRibeus/Gettis/McGlynn. (3 tackles, 3 guards, 1 C, 2 G/C and either another tackle or a G/T) * if coaches think Compton is close to Polumbus, keeping Compton would allow him to kick over to the left if Trent went down with Moses coming in as RT. Given Polumbus' improved play though, I expect he sticks. ** This is a tough one since McGlynn is probably the better C, but I like Gettis better at G. Gettis provides youth and better potential. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Hey Skinny that's why I asked. Seems like the Chester news has been hidden or avoided. Nobody talks about him and I have not seen one single interview with him. Saw Silverback, saw interview with Lauveu, saw Kory Lic being interviewed, watched an interview with Polumbus, saw Long interviewed, Moses, but not one single word out of Chester. Even saw Gruden talking about Leribius. But Chester....still nothing. He is the Mystery Man. At this time of year I would not put that much stock in the depth chart, official or unofficial. Generally if you ended last season as a starter you will start the offseason as the starter - guys are going to have a chance to compete during camp and preseason and there will changes. I think a lot of us are hoping that one of the younger guys we have drafted over the last couple of years can step up and win one of the guard spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I may be the only one but I am not yet sold on Morris as elite. After 2 years only - elite - seems like a fan playing his fan card. I would like to see less fumbles, and more focus when catching the ball, before I put him into an elite status. Yea, it would be nice to see less fumbles, but it's not like it's some huge problem of his. He has 9 fumbles over the past two years. For comparisons sake, Adrian Peterson, Jamaal Charles and Marshawn Lynch all have 9 fumbles over the past two seasons as well, and AP has played less games than Morris over that time period. All these guys are elite players, and both AP and Marshawn are about as bad as catching the ball as Morris is, so I don't see why fumbles and not catching would be the attributes keeping Morris from elite status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietrographic Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Where is Jerry Rice Jr. ??? He is elite!! One of the best players in the the history of the game! Oh wait...... it says Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Fair enough. Personally, I'd take the healthy season (AKA the non FUBARed season) and give a small bump (down) for the other season. Otherwise it seems like trying to average an A+ and an incomplete grade.I agree, but he did play 13 games last year, they did count, and he was inconsistent. If you grade last year a D-ish, and 2012 an A, you end up with C+/B-. I think that healthy, with a new start he'll be better than 2012. I really believe that. But I have nothing but opinion to back that up. The tape grades what he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Taking the injury into consideration, we’re going with the light green category, not as high as his 2012 season deserved, but higher than he would have gotten had 2013′s struggles not come with the injury asterisk. - per the PFF article. So they're saying that averaging the two season would have earned him a ranking of average (at best) if they didn't factor in the injury. Can't say I agree with that... I forgot that PFF wrote that about taking the injury into consideration. But even in so doing they can only grade what they see not what they would have seen, you know? I think Griffin as a good starter is fair. I don't think you rightly justify Griffin having the same grade a Russell Wilson or a higher grade then Cam Newton, Andrew Luck and Nick Foles. I've always been and remain one of Griffin's greatest proponents on this forum. I had to say that before people read this post as a stand alone and jump to the wrong conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 If 10: Williams, Lauvao, Lich., Chester, Polumbus, Moses, Long, Compton/Hurt, and 2 of LeRibeus/Gettis/McGlynn. (3 tackles, 3 guards, 1 C, 2 G/C and either another tackle or a G/T) * if coaches think Compton is close to Polumbus, keeping Compton would allow him to kick over to the left if Trent went down with Moses coming in as RT. Given Polumbus' improved play though, I expect he sticks. ** This is a tough one since McGlynn is probably the better C, but I like Gettis better at G. Gettis provides youth and better potential. Thoughts? Trent, Lauvao, Kory, Chester, Tyler--Moses, Long, Hurt, Compton if 10 then McGlynn I figure Grudes didn't bring him here just to cut him. A general thought on the OG spot w/ Chester/Lauvao. Lauvao was a RG w/ Browns and from what I understand w/ how most OL works the RG is usually the better of a teams 2 OGs because the RG receives the least amount of help. So maybe moving from RG to LG will boost Lauvao's performance. The flip side of that coin is that we kinda have to consider that Chester, in his down year, was still our best RG. Hopefully Long will able to push Chester afterall the dude is a 3rd round OG. Anyhow update from PFF..... Washington Redskins - After the feedback we received in the comment section, we did indeed switch the positions for safeties Phillip Thomas and Bacarri Rambo. - Another change we made in the secondary was upping safety Ryan Clark to light green. His grade dropped to -1.3 in 2013, but the former Pittsburgh Steeler has shown himself to be good against the run throughout his career so far and almost always does well in coverage.. - We did debate dropping Ryan Kerrigan down to “Average”, with a negative grade against the run every year since he’s been in the league driving the debate. Ultimately, though, we decided that he has been a consistently good pass rusher and that was enough to keep him where he is. See the updated depth chart: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/24/2014-depth-chart-washington-redskins/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Trent, Lauvao, Kory, Chester, Tyler--Moses, Long, Hurt, Compton if 10 then McGlynn I figure Grudes didn't bring him here just to cut him. A general thought on the OG spot w/ Chester/Lauvao. Lauvao was a RG w/ Browns and from what I understand w/ how most OL works the RG is usually the better of a teams 2 OGs because the RG receives the least amount of help. So maybe moving from RG to LG will boost Lauvao's performance. The flip side of that coin is that we kinda have to consider that Chester, in his down year, was still our best RG. Hopefully Long will able to push Chester afterall the dude is a 3rd round OG. Anyhow update from PFF..... Washington Redskins - After the feedback we received in the comment section, we did indeed switch the positions for safeties Phillip Thomas and Bacarri Rambo. - Another change we made in the secondary was upping safety Ryan Clark to light green. His grade dropped to -1.3 in 2013, but the former Pittsburgh Steeler has shown himself to be good against the run throughout his career so far and almost always does well in coverage.. - We did debate dropping Ryan Kerrigan down to “Average”, with a negative grade against the run every year since he’s been in the league driving the debate. Ultimately, though, we decided that he has been a consistently good pass rusher and that was enough to keep him where he is. See the updated depth chart: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/24/2014-depth-chart-washington-redskins/ Do not think you are right in making Andre Roberts a below average wide receiver. At the end of the season you may have mud on your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Do not think you are right in making Andre Roberts a below average wide receiver. At the end of the season you may have mud on your hands. Lol. I'm pretty sure darrelgreenie has no say in whether Roberts is below average or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Looking at list again, there's somewhat reasonable hope that the 'poor' and 'below average' rated players exceed their rankings - Roberts should be targeted more than last year (and has shown he's capable of producing), Porter was supposedly better in the slot, Meriweather goes back to a role that fits him better, Amerson develops, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I enjoy reading these breakdowns from sites. I thought I had a football problem, but these guys never sleep. Trent is certainly elite. I don't think that's a homerish statement. The guy is top five at his position without question. There's not a whole lot of LTs out there that I love to watch play, but he is an exception. Freak. I think our defense could be good, but we need a lot of things to break our way. Hatcher needs to be as good as advertised, Baker needs to step up, Clark needs to play better than his age, Meriweather needs to step up, PThomas needs to push for playing time. Amerson needs to develop into a solid starter, Breeland needs to contribute a lot, KRobinson needs to be a gem, and Rak/Kerrigan need to make more plays. That's a lot to ask, but I think each needs to happen for us to make any noise. We've got plenty of playmakers on offense, we should score some points. I will be disappointed if we don't have three new starters on the OL, but with that comes some chemistry issues to go along with our new scheme. I'm really hoping Griff can play at an elite level and help carry us early while our OL gels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepball1 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I don't think Long has a particular advantage to win the guard spot since he is a rookie. Some of you believe Long has a chance to start because he is a 3rd round pick but Leribeus is also a 3rd round pick and he has 2 years of experience hanging around, watching film, and one good game he played as well so....since he came to camp in shape and seems dedicated I am going to proclaim Leribeus the guy who wins the starting right guard spot...... Or Chester will win it......or somebody else....lol Ya know...we have some great competition going on for a change and depending on who is in shape, who gets injured, and who has the most heart...for the most part....it is impossible to do any more than GUESS who the starters will be at any position.But we will find out in about a month or so who the starters should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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