steveo21 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Anyone here ever watch the old k-1 and Pride stuff?or AKA? Andy Hug? Really miss the early Tyson days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo21 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 So who here sees Jones going up in weight and fighting Cain at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 A big boxing PPV STILL trumps any MMA PPV. And I don't see how anyone can say MMA is bigger now considering over the past few years the most popular MMA fighters have all retired and two of the best of all time (Silva, Pierre) are in the tri-light of their careers. When Rampage, Ladell, Lesner, Ortiz, Hughes, Evans and some others that I forget, the UFC was immensely popular. Now, you have Jones and an aging Silva and Pierre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 In Boxing, a guy can get off the canvas and win the fight. In MMA, as soon as a guy goes down it looks like a crime scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I grew up on boxing and I still think it's a great sport but I'm a living testimony of the changeover in fan base. I'd be willing to bet the people who currently watch both sports can name more active UFC fighters alone off the top of their heads than boxers from 3 different sanctioning bodies. Boxing is by no means dead but the promoters running the sport have damaged it greatly over the last 20 years and the fighters in it are simply not up to the bar set by the historical greats. I loved loved loved boxing. Now I don't even watch it. I know that's just me but I don't even hear people mention it in conversation anymore. I never thought that would happen. agreed. the three sanctioning bodies is just the top of the iceberg. the judging was as corrupt as an politician. ever see the dave tiberi/jame toney fight? i did. what a ****ing joke. http://www.boxingscene.com/-17-years-toney-finally-admits-losing-tiberi--17931 that was the final straw for me. not to mention the best fighters almost never actually fight each other. WTF?! really?! **** boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 One of the main problems facing MMA long term is that UFC has positioned itself as the only organization that "matters" to the casual fans. All the eggs are in one basket, which really hurts the overall brand because look at how many events have been ruined by last minute injuries. In boxing the structure is totally different, there isn't a single promoter or federation or company that has a lock on all the elite talent. Different orgs are forced to come to the table to make big fights. In MMA, UFC has all the leverage and it is not a very good sport for 90% of the fighters at the moment. In fact if you look at what a lot of the guys make for a fight, it is truly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasCowboyFan156 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 In Boxing, a guy can get off the canvas and win the fight. In MMA, as soon as a guy goes down it looks like a crime scene. That's the main reason I prefer boxing. MMA can be more exciting when they are on their feet but once they go to the ground it just looks like two humping each other. I think you have to have some knowledge about technique to really appreciate what is going on on the ground and that isn't me. That being said, even though I prefer boxing I probably watch more MMA only because MMA has their minor fights on FOX whereas boxing is all on HBO. I'd love to see boxing be on the local network channels. Might be a way to build the fan base and get more people paying for those ppv fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 That being said, even though I prefer boxing I probably watch more MMA only because MMA has their minor fights on FOX whereas boxing is all on HBO. I'd love to see boxing be on the local network channels. Might be a way to build the fan base and get more people paying for those ppv fights. That was my point earlier, and a big reason why I think MMA has passed boxing. You can't watch a boxing match of any signifcance without it being on PPV or at least Showtime or HBO. Nothing important is free anymore. Yes, there are entertaining boxing matches on basic cable, but it is unlikely that they are important. They are usually marginal prospects or guys that are past their prime, IMO. The UFC has gotten up and coming fighters on free TV fairly regularly so people get to know them before they are asked to pay to see them fight. And the FS1 and Fox cards usually have some important fights, either top contenders or even championship fights. That does not happen anymore with boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 One of the main problems facing MMA long term is that UFC has positioned itself as the only organization that "matters" to the casual fans. All the eggs are in one basket, which really hurts the overall brand because look at how many events have been ruined by last minute injuries. In boxing the structure is totally different, there isn't a single promoter or federation or company that has a lock on all the elite talent. Different orgs are forced to come to the table to make big fights. In MMA, UFC has all the leverage and it is not a very good sport for 90% of the fighters at the moment. In fact if you look at what a lot of the guys make for a fight, it is truly pathetic. Well to be fair, there are positives and negatives to each structure. Having multiple governing bodies and multiple promoters involved has killed a lot of boxing matches and can make a mess of things. I don't think either is a perfect scenario. I think boxing would be better if everyone worked together, but we all know that does not always happen. And as for pay, most boxers are not maxing huge amounts of money either. I don't think there is a huge disparity between boxing and MMA pay. Sure there are the Mayweathers and Pacquaios of boxing that make more than any MMA fighter by far, but after you get past that, it evens out a lot more, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 A big boxing PPV STILL trumps any MMA PPV. And I don't see how anyone can say MMA is bigger now considering over the past few years the most popular MMA fighters have all retired and two of the best of all time (Silva, Pierre) are in the tri-light of their careers. When Rampage, Ladell, Lesner, Ortiz, Hughes, Evans and some others that I forget, the UFC was immensely popular. Now, you have Jones and an aging Silva and Pierre. Very true, but how many big boxing PPVs are there any more? I can't find numbers right now, but big boxing matches are usually at the top of the charts, but more UFC cards are usually in the top 10 or so because there are more of them. And you can point out that some of MMA's early stars are gone and others are aging, and you are right. But I could say the same thing about boxing. Mayweather and Manny are the PPV superstars of boxing, and they are not going to be around much longer at all. I know you will say that someone will step up, but I can say the same thing about MMA. Guys like Jose Also, Chris Weidman and Anthony Pettis are young, exciting and marketable. I think both sports will go through an interesting transition as boxing loses Mayweather and Manny and the UFC may lose Silva and GSP in the coming years. I don't know who is in a better situation there. I like both sports, so I don't want to see either suffer, but I think MMA is better positioned for success 5-10 years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 A big boxing PPV STILL trumps any MMA PPV. And I don't see how anyone can say MMA is bigger now considering over the past few years the most popular MMA fighters have all retired and two of the best of all time (Silva, Pierre) are in the tri-light of their careers. When Rampage, Ladell, Lesner, Ortiz, Hughes, Evans and some others that I forget, the UFC was immensely popular. Now, you have Jones and an aging Silva and Pierre. And Cain, Pettis, Bendo, Edgar, JDS, Machida, Belfort etc. The UFC has major talent in every weight class. Trying to deny this to continue pimping boxing is silly. I love the sweet science but MMA is just more exciting to me and I don't have to worry about not seeing the two best fighters in the world not fighting each other due to money. So who here sees Jones going up in weight and fighting Cain at some point? Cain would destroy Jones. The fight wouldn't last long at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Very true, but how many big boxing PPVs are there any more? I can't find numbers right now, but big boxing matches are usually at the top of the charts, but more UFC cards are usually in the top 10 or so because there are more of them. And you can point out that some of MMA's early stars are gone and others are aging, and you are right. But I could say the same thing about boxing. Mayweather and Manny are the PPV superstars of boxing, and they are not going to be around much longer at all. I know you will say that someone will step up, but I can say the same thing about MMA. Guys like Jose Also, Chris Weidman and Anthony Pettis are young, exciting and marketable. I think both sports will go through an interesting transition as boxing loses Mayweather and Manny and the UFC may lose Silva and GSP in the coming years. I don't know who is in a better situation there. I like both sports, so I don't want to see either suffer, but I think MMA is better positioned for success 5-10 years down the road. This is very true. There are very few big boxing PPVs every year from what I can see. The UFC (not counting other organizations) have at least one PPV per month now and multiple other cards per month that are shown for free on FOX and FS1 and they sell out tickets wherever they go. They've grown their business steadily throughout the years and haven't shown any signs of slowing down. I see people mentioning fighters like Chuck Liddell, Rampage, Matt Hughes, and Tito and how MMA supposedly isn't as popular now because they retired, but most of these guys haven't been relevant for half a decade or more anyway. MMA has been just fine with them out of the spotlight. There is a whole new stable of young, exciting fighters and rivalries that are bringing in new fans with every card. You've already mentioned some of them, but Jon Jones, Chris Weidman, Anthony Pettis, Cain Velasquez, Johny Hendricks, Ronda Rousey, Machida, Gustaffason, Mighty Mouse, the team Alpha Male guys, Renan Barao, etc. these are the new faces of the UFC. Not to mention there are still old favorites that draw a lot of fans, Vitor, Dan Henderson, Overeem, Sonnen, Wand, etc. I mean, UFC 168 back on NYE weekend tied for the third highest-selling PPV in UFC history. I think MMA is doing just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Other than Jones, is any one of those guys would be considered stars? Are they gonna bring in the casual viewer? I admit, I'm a casual viewer of MMA, and I haven't bought a UFC PPV since Jones/Rampage I believe. Yeah, you guys loves and know all about these other fighters, but what about everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I absolutely love Dana White and the accountability he brings as the face of his enterprise. Bashes his fighters? Who cares. Be better. The guy took everything that was wrong with boxing (which is everything) and has made a conscious effort to improve the experience for paying customers. The 'surge' you speak of is clearly in MMA's favor right now and I think the creation of Fox Sports 1 is a pretty good indication of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Boxing was never close to being dead and MMA never seriously competed with boxing. MMA is on the rise, but boxing is still the bigger draw and always has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Other than Jones, is any one of those guys would be considered stars? Are they gonna bring in the casual viewer? I admit, I'm a casual viewer of MMA, and I haven't bought a UFC PPV since Jones/Rampage I believe. Yeah, you guys loves and know all about these other fighters, but what about everyone else? I would consider Jones, Rousey, Velasquez, and Weidman all to be stars right now. Hendricks, Pettis and Gustaffason are all stars in the making, i.e. the casual fan will know about them soon if they don't already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Can boxing successfully pull off a monthly PPV? I doubt it. They appear to be a bigger draw because the fights anyone cares about are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Boxing was never close to being dead and MMA never seriously competed with boxing. MMA is on the rise, but boxing is still the bigger draw and always has been. Maybe about two times a year, but other than that, MMA is a bigger draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Other than Jones, is any one of those guys would be considered stars? Are they gonna bring in the casual viewer? I admit, I'm a casual viewer of MMA, and I haven't bought a UFC PPV since Jones/Rampage I believe. Yeah, you guys loves and know all about these other fighters, but what about everyone else? It's the same way with boxing. Of course there's still big stars in MMA. The Diaz brothers are popular, Jose Aldo, Faber, Overeem, Cowboy Cerrone. I would think these are guys even casual fans know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Boxing is not built to have a monthly PPV. Thank God. A few fights on HBO and Showtime twice a month is plenty. Honestly, I don't believe the UFC should have monthly PPV's either. You're not gonna tell me every PPV they put out is PPV worthy. It's the same way with boxing. Of course there's still big stars in MMA. The Diaz brothers are popular, Jose Aldo, Faber, Overeem, Cowboy Cerrone. I would think these are guys even casual fans know... I'm not so sure about that. A few years ago, there was a legitimate buzz surrounding the UFC. Even I was getting their PPV's. I don't sense that buzz right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Boxing is not built to have a monthly PPV. Thank God. A few fights on HBO and Showtime twice a month is plenty. Honestly, I don't believe the UFC should have monthly PPV's either. You're not gonna tell me every PPV they put out is PPV worthy. Boxing doesn't have the fighters to pull it off. The UFC does a better job of creating awareness of their fighters than boxing does. I wonder how many boxers are more widely recognized than Ronda Rousey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Boxing doesn't have the fighters to pull it off. The UFC does a better job of creating awareness of their fighters than boxing does. I wonder how many boxers are more widely recognized than Ronda Rousey. Boxing does have the fighters to pull it off, BUT unlike the UFC, boxing is controlled by different promotors and different cable networks (HBO/Showtime). Dana White is pretty much the Vince McMahon of MMA. He has a ton of talent working under the same company so it's much more easier for him to produce a PPV every single month. Plus, the UFC, like the WWE, is a brand name. Boxing doesn't have a brand name like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 DM72 all that means is that currently the UFC, for a variety if reasons, is ahead of boxing. They have a more visible brand, as you say, and the level of control provide by a promotion so large that it's essentially "the big leagues" of MMA. Everything else is basically seen as a UFC farm system. They are somewhere between the major team sports leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL) and where boxing is now in terms if the marketing and business model. The UFC's marketing is so effective that they've been able to run a reality show for years successfully and get people to care about women fighting. Boxing tried both of those things and largely failed. Having said that I don't want you to think that I'm saying MMA is necessarily a better sport than boxing. In terms of pure sport I think boxing is ahead of MMA. Both sports have suffered from horrible score cards (and possibly corruption) but MMA has the bigger issue that scoring often makes little sense. In boxing scoring a round is easier and usually makes a great deal more sense. How much does a take down count versus 10 jabs to the face? No one knows. The examples are numerous and even for those of us that watch MMA often, the scoring issue is a source of constant debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I absolutely love Dana White and the accountability he brings as the face of his enterprise. Bashes his fighters? Who cares. Be better. The guy took everything that was wrong with boxing (which is everything) and has made a conscious effort to improve the experience for paying customers. The 'surge' you speak of is clearly in MMA's favor right now and I think the creation of Fox Sports 1 is a pretty good indication of that. He isnt need anymore. Him bashing fighters doesn't help anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Destino is right about MMA's scoring. It's a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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