PP: China Set to Seize South China Sea Island by Force

[Mocountyskins]

Our countries are more similar than some would think with how we disseminate our news and views.

[JMS]

They don't think we will go to war over a podunk island, and they are probably right.   Which is why they are making a play for the podunk islands (which have a lot of oil and fishing rights around them and through which run the busiest maritime trade routes in the world).   That's what we mean by playing chicken.    

 

The problem is not the US intervening.  The problem is Japan or the Philippines intervening, shooting starting somehow, and the US being pulled in to support its allies.   

 

They don't think we would go to war over a podunk island claimed by the Philippians and they are probable right.   The problem is China has territorial disputes with Japan over podunk islands too;  and we are treaty bound to go to war to defend Japans territorial integrity including its podunk Islands.   

[Mocountyskins]

The media eats this up because its all free speculation on what China COULD do. No data or science or investigative journalism, just speculation on what could happen. I suspect this to pick up steam and die down when people get bored of it.

[Mocountyskins]

Like a year ago or whenever the recent North Korea nuke issues were going on a lot of the programming on CNN, MSNBC or FOX, was just all speculation. Inviting people on the shows and displaying big maps of the us and how close a nuke could get to us and if we were hit how many people would die. This will be just a different version. What IF this happens what will we do? How many troops will we send? How many Americans would die if we went to war?

Many countries dispute many islands it is rare something happens. Nk shelled some south islands some time ago and we didn't do anything about it and we are allies with South Korea.

some truth to these events but mostly media driven for web hits and ratings.

[Predicto]

You think it's a conspiracy vortex to say that American newspaper editorial pages don't always reflect a credible government policy?...  Because after all our editorialists don't  have to conform to government established postions prior to publication or risk loosing their jobs.. or loosing more than their jobs.   But that Chinese editorial pages do.    Prior to publishing an editorial in China it must pass a political officer and likely is even checked off on by several government officials to ensure it conforms with some powerful bureaucrats position?    That doesn't happen here last time I checked...

 

Where did China rank again in jailing journalists in 2013?   a close 3rd...behind Turkey and Iran.

 

You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise....   I know just because some General somewhere holds some belief it doesn't mean it's China's national policy...  But like in the case of our 24 man aircrew back in 2001 being held  by China for 10 days until we wrote a letter of apology,   Bush Jr. apologizing twice for a crash that China's pilot clearly caused...  Sorry our slow prop driven EP-3 on auto pilot carrying 24 people flying in international waters  got hit by your  single seat J-8 fighter.   Sorry our old EP-3 couldn't out maneuver or out run your super sonic single seat fighter jet.    It wasn't China's national government holding our guys hostage for 10 days...  It was some general out in the weeds doing it...   That's how China is...  In a crisis,  sometimes you don't know who is setting policy.     So it's good to be versed in what everybody thinks.....  It's good to hear what their editorials are saying... because they are always somebody important's position.

 

So tell me what part of that is a conspiracy theory?   None of it... that's how China works.    That's how China observers work too.

 

You really need to read other people's posts more carefully.  I already explained the problem.  So did everyone else.

 

Of COURSE China journalism is wack, of course China generals are wack, its complicated, you have to look at all of it blah blah blah.

 

The problem here is letting conspiracy nutters from Infowars and prison planet read these complicated tea leaves for you.  I referenced the Economist in my post and I tend ot rely on the New York Times take on things.   You referenced Alex Jones in your post and rely on the Infowars take on things.   Those interpretations are not reliable.  

 

That is the only reason you got criticized here, and I don't understand how you missed this point so badly.   

[JMS]

 

The problem here is letting conspiracy nutters from Infowars and prison planet read these complicated tea leaves for you.  I referenced the Economist in my post and I tend ot rely on the New York Times take on things.  

 

That is the only reason you got criticized here, and I don't understand how you missed this point so badly.   

 

Ah,  so it's the diversity of opinion in the chinese media which confused you?   That's why you only read Chinese media where it can be interpreted for you by the NY Times or Economist...   To which I say,  what diversity in the chinese media?   And if you were following this closely you would already know the Economist and NY Times are saying the same thing as Alex Jones...  Asia is on a prelude to war footing..  China is accosting nearly a dozen countries established boarders. 

 

 

China and Japan square up The drums of war

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21569757-armed-clashes-over-trivial-specks-east-china-sea-loom-closer-drums-war

 

 

 

 

Risky Nationalism in Japan - NYTimes.com

 

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/18/world/asia/japan-moves-to-strengthen-military-amid-rivalry-with-china.html?_r=0

 

Amid Chinese Rivalry, Japan Seeks More Muscle

 

 

TOKYO — Taking Japan a step further from its postwar pacifism, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe approved a new five-year defense plan on Tuesday that calls for the acquisition of drones and amphibious assault vehicles to strengthen the nation’s military as it faces the prospect of a prolonged rivalry with China over islands in the East China Sea.

 

 

 

[zoony]

So next time, quote the NY Times and Economist when you start a thread instead of info wars

If nothing else than to avoid another vortex

[JMS]

The media eats this up because its all free speculation on what China COULD do. No data or science or investigative journalism, just speculation on what could happen. I suspect this to pick up steam and die down when people get bored of it.

 

Just observing the countries involved are all dramatically increasing their militaries,  talking smack at each other,  and deploying troops into the same areas with cross purposes;  while daring the other to blink...

 

It's kind of like that line from Hunt for Red October... "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.."      ......     I know this is the year for bad WWI analogies... but that's what I see.   Trouble starts and before you know it we are sucked in greatly compounding the conflict.   We have treaties with a lot of these countries.  Some of those treaties are essentially blank checks, which guarantee US military involvement....    This coupled with the fact  China like North Korea uses irrational out of control language and acts as state craft in negotiations.   If that happens in the prescense of regional brinksmanship it could easily lead to shooting.. Before you know it we are dragged into it.....   Least that's likely the reason why the US Military is switching over from a European focus for the last 100 years,  to a Pacific forcus....    Happenning right now.. today..

 

Japan,  South Korea,  Australia all have such treaties... Taiwan and Phili;pines also have treaties with us but they aren't blanket deals.

 

US is not thinking all out war with China, but preparing for a series of regional conflicts.

NYTIMES

Back in Asia, Hagel Pursues Shift to Counter China’s Goals in Pacific

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/world/asia/chuck-hagel-in-asia.html

 

 

 

The Economist

 America and China Pivoting across the Pacific

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/theworldin2013/2012/12/america-and-china

[JMS]

So next time, quote the NY Times and Economist when you start a thread instead of info wars

If nothing else than to avoid another vortex

 

Again, what was interesting to me was the recent and direct quotes of the Chinese Press in the Alex Jones piece.   I thought it was noteworthy, and worth discussing.   

 

I did not envision the tension and ramp up towards war would be controversial.

[Predicto]

Ah,  so it's the diversity of opinion in the chinese media which confused you?   

 

 

Oh for goodness sake.  

[pjfootballer]

I thought China was friendly to us, even though they are a communist country?  Since when do they want to wage war with us?  Why all of the sudden?  Don't they know that us buying stuff from them keeps their economy going so they can afford to have a billion people?  

[twa]

Maybe they figured out we aren't paying it back?

[Larry]

I thought China was friendly to us, even though they are a communist country?  Since when do they want to wage war with us?  Why all of the sudden?  Don't they know that us buying stuff from them keeps their economy going so they can afford to have a billion people?  

 

They don't want a war with us.  It's just a land grab.  (Or, more properly, a resource grab.) 

 

"Land:  See "Snatch"" 

 

(Well, assume that they're also testing to see how scared people are, of them.) 

[FanboyOf91]

JMS, they don't understand yet.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/

[JMS]

Yep,  it's not just Philippians, Japanese, and Taiwan ships which are being harassed by China..

Just last month...

 

Chinese Warship Pressures US Navy Ship: Leads to Near Collision

A U.S. Navy ship in the South China Sea recently had to take evasive action to avoid colliding with a Chinese Navy ship that had tried to block its way, defense officials told ABC News today.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/12/exclusive-chinese-warship-pressures-us-navy-ship-leads-to-near-collision/

[Toe Jam]

Scary stuff. Here's a relevant quote:

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

-Albert Einstein

[visionary]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/31/world/asia/japan-china-abe.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

Japan Offers Support to Nations in Disputes With China

 

Saying that his nation will play a larger role in regional security, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan said on Friday that his government would support Vietnam and other nations that have territorial disputes with China by providing patrol ships, training and military surveillance equipment.

 

Mr. Abe, speaking at an international security meeting in Singapore, said he wanted Japan to shed the passiveness that has marked its diplomacy after World War II and take more responsibility for maintaining regional stability. He said Japan would cooperate with the United States and other like-minded nations like Australia and India to uphold international rule of law and freedom of navigation, and to discourage China’s increasingly assertive efforts to take control of islands and expanses of ocean that are claimed by other Asian nations, including Japan.

 

“Japan intends to play an even greater and more proactive role than it has until now in making peace in Asia and the world something more certain,” Mr. Abe said.

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/31/us-asia-security-idUSKBN0EB03520140531?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

U.S. backs Japan's Abe, tells China to stop destabilizing actions

 

The United States threw its weight on Saturday behind a push by Japan to take a more active role in regional security and bluntly warned China to halt destabilizing actions in support of territorial claims.

 

Using unusually strong language, U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel told an Asia-Pacific security forum that the United States was committed to its geopolitical rebalance to the region and "will not look the other way when fundamental principles of the international order are being challenged".

 

"In recent months, China has undertaken destabilizing, unilateral actions asserting its claims in the South China Sea," he said in the speech to the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore.

 

Hagel said the United States took no position on the merits of rival territorial claims in the region, but added: "We firmly oppose any nation’s use of intimidation, coercion, or the threat of force to assert these claims."

 

"We ... support Japan’s new effort ... to reorient its Collective Self Defense posture toward actively helping build a peaceful and resilient regional order," Hagel said.

 

He also welcomed India's increasingly active role in Asian institutions and growing defense capabilities. He said the United States looked forward to working with new Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and that he himself hoped to visit India later in the year.

 

Hagel said Asia-Pacific nations must cooperate in security in order to build a peaceful and prosperous future.

 

"We must continue to develop, share and maintain advanced military capabilities that can adapt to rapidly evolving challenges," he said.

 

Hagel repeatedly stressed Obama's commitment to the Asia-Pacific rebalance and said the strong U.S. military presence in the region would endure.

He said Washington would seek to uphold international rules and laws and stand up to aggression by helping to boost the security capabilities of allies and strengthening its own defense.

 

"To ensure that the rebalance is fully implemented, both President Obama and I remain committed to ensuring that any reductions in U.S. defense spending do not come at the expense of America’s commitments in the Asia-Pacific," he said.

[TheGreatBuzz]

You can think this is just the media if you want. Obviously I can't say a whole lot but I will tell you the military life on this side of the world has gotten busier.