FA: *TJAX*Davis, Clingan, RJ, McCoy, DJ, RC, McGlynn, EJ, Moore, Jordan, BMeri, Rogers, Hatcher, Geathers, Sharpton, Porter, Hayward, Lauvao, Roberts

[SittingBull]

This thread needs more what not.

[MartinC]

I was speaking strictly about 3rd and long situations.  We wouldn't be in a 3-4 during obvious passing situations.  We'd be rushing four in a Nickle or Dime package.  I think a speed rusher on the outside opposite Orakpo would bring much more pressure than what Cofield could bring in those situations.  Sort of like how the Seahawks use Bruce Irvin.  I think Hatcher and Kerrigan would be more than capable of preventing a QB from just stepping up in the pocket.

You still need interior pressure in long yardage situations. If there is no inside pressure the QB can step up away from your outside rush (however good). Inside pressure makes your outside pressure MUCH more effective.

[HTTRDynasty]

You still need interior pressure in long yardage situations. If there is no inside pressure the QB can step up away from your outside rush (however good). Inside pressure makes your outside pressure MUCH more effective.

 

I know this.  I just happen to think Hatcher and Kerrigan are good enough to generate that interior pressure.

[MartinC]

I know this.  I just happen to think Hatcher and Kerrigan are good enough to generate that interior pressure.

You want Kerrigan matched up with TEs and RBs as much as possible not banging heads with Guards. Moving Kerrigan inside on obvious passing situations does not make a lot of sense to me.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

This thread needs more what not.

 

[HTTRDynasty]

You want Kerrigan matched up with TEs and RBs as much as possible not banging heads with Guards. Moving Kerrigan inside on obvious passing situations does not make a lot of sense to me.

 

If we're rushing 4 with Kerrigan playing outside end, Kerrigan will be going up against tackles not TEs and RBs.  Tackles usually weigh as much as, if not more than, guards and centers, so I don't understand your reluctance to have Kerrigan banging heads with guards if we moved him inside on obvious passing situations.  He would still be able to utilize his quickness and smarts to get around guards, just as we saw Hatcher do all last year.

 

This is all hypothetical, and won't matter if we don't actually get a stud OLB in the draft.  If we do, I think having the most pass rushing talent possible out on the field is paramount to getting consistent pressure on a QB with only 4 rushers in an obvious passing situation.

[Thekyle1591]

Tackles weigh more than guards?

[HTTRDynasty]

Tackles weigh more than guards?

 

Ours definitely do

 

Centers are usually the lightest guys on the O-line, and it varies from team to team if the guards weigh more than the tackles.  I'm sure New Orleans guards weigh the most on their team, but other teams have bigger tackles than guards.  It varies.

 

The top O-lineman in this coming draft, Greg Robinson is a tackle weighing 332 pounds.

[darrelgreenie]

HTTR-

We could have moved Kerrigan inside on pass rushing situations already if they wanted/ thought it made sense. Rob Jackson is a good outside pass rusher in his own right.

But you don't/won't get as much (or any) inside pressure from Ryan playing inside at 260lbs compared to Cofield or Hatcher who have around 40 interior pressures.

I get your intent, but I think your plan for execution is flawed.

Having more OLBs doesn't automatically make overall pass rush better.

[darrelgreenie]

SUM- outside linebackers are edge/outside rushers not interior rushers

Moving a good outside rusher to the inside to make room for another outside rusher doesn't increase the overall pass rush imo

Imo to get interior pass rush you need someone that is actually good at it

[HTTRDynasty]

Well for me personally, weight doesn't mean much (within reason) when it comes to rushing a passer in obvious pass rush situations.

 

This is an article describing the D-Line the Giants built in 2007.

 

It was a D-line in pass rush situations that was comprised of Justin Tuck (268 pounds), Michael Strahan (270 pounds), Osi Umenyiora (255 pounds) and Mathias Kiwanuka (267 pounds).  They were four elite pass rushers, it didn't matter that not one of them weighed over 270 pounds.

 

Against the Washington Redskins in Week 3, Strahan and Umenyiora created pressure on the outside, forcing Jason Campbell to step up in the pocket — right into Tuck and Kiwanuka, who split the sack. It was perfect teamwork, and the fumble forced by Tuck helped move Washington out of field-goal range. A week later, the Eagles — particularly left tackle Winston Justice — struggled to protect against Spagnuolo’s “Four Aces.” The Giants racked up a dozen sacks, half of which came from Umenyiora.

 

 

 

If we can get that kind of pressure here with Orakpo (260 pounds), Hatcher (299 pounds), Kerrigan (260 pounds) and a stud OLB in this coming draft at around 260-265 pounds, why wouldn't we be able to do the same as that Giants team did?  We all saw what they did during that 2007 season, and they did the same thing in 2011, only with JPP instead of Strahan.  Again, this is all assuming a blue chip pass rusher like Dee Ford falls to us in the draft.

 

I do not view Rob Jackson as a blue chip pass rushing threat like I do these other guys, and I'm not sure the coaching staff does either.  I think he's viewed more as a play-maker and a "competent" pass-rusher, but not a very good one. 

[darrelgreenie]

What makes you think Kerrigan an OLB/DE can be a good interior rusher? And what makes you think he would be better then Cofield? Cofield got 40+ interior pressures last year. Do you think Kerrigan is gonna give you that?

Also Tuck is a DE/DT and is prolly closer to 280 then 268. And Kerrigan isn't Tuck.

[Thekyle1591]

What makes you think Kerrigan an OLB/DE can be a good interior rusher? And what makes you think he would be better then Cofield? Cofield got 40+ interior pressures last year. Do you think Kerrigan is gonna give you that?

Tuck is a DE/DT and is prolly closer to 280 then 268.

Kerrigan was actually used a few times in the role you guys are talking about.. He tended to get stonewalled at the snap and struggle to get penetration. Which is expected when you're going against a guard who weighs anywhere from 40 to 60 pounds more.

Plus you could argue Cofield was our best pass rusher and probably the best pass rushing NT in the league.

[Laxpunk2006]

I continue to see mention of Rak and Djax being on one year deals but does Kerrigan's contract not end in 2015?  I've seen a lot of mention of teams picking up the fifth year option on former first round picks, do we have that option for Kerrigan?  

 

I'm having a hard time remembering if that was available for all first rounds picks or if it was slotted.

[HTTRDynasty]

What makes you think Kerrigan an OLB/DE can be a good interior rusher? And what makes you think he would be better then Cofield? Cofield got 40+ interior pressures last year. Do you think Kerrigan is gonna give you that?

Also Tuck is a DE/DT and is prolly closer to 280 then 268. And Kerrigan isn't Tuck.

 

I like Cofield, but I don't see him as a great pass rusher.  Really good run defender?  Sure.  Watching the games last year, it seemed like we were rarely able to generate much interior pressure on a consistent basis.  That seemed to be the general consensus with the team, coaches, and the local media too during last year.  I'm not saying that all lies on Cofield, I'm just saying that he's a part of it (only 2.5 sacks all year) and it's why we brought in Hatcher to help with that. The 40+ pressures is nice, but doesn't that include the times the QB was pressured but was able to side-step and avoid Cofield and complete the pass because Cofield couldn't finish the play (2.5 sacks)?

 

I know Kerrigan isn't Tuck (who I've never seen as a very big guy so I'm guessing he's closer to the 268), but he's our second best pass rusher in my eyes, or maybe 3rd with the addition of Hatcher.  In my opinion, you put your best pass rushers on the field on obvious passing situations. 

 

And in reference to Thekyle1591's post: Cofield our best pass rusher, and arguably the best pass rushing NT in the league?  Lol.  We'll just agree to disagree on that one.  And I definitely don't remember seeing Kerrigan get repeatedly stonewalled when he lined up on the inside.  Care to point me to the game you saw this in so I can watch it?

[Thekyle1591]

Cofield not a good pass rusher but a good run defender? You might be wrong on this one. Btw, pressures include sacks hurries and hits.

[HTTRDynasty]

Cofield not a good pass rusher but a good run defender? You might be wrong on this one. Btw, pressures include sacks hurries and hits.

 

I didn't think he was particularly good against the run last year, but I thought he was much better in previous years.  And I never said he wasn't a good pass rusher, I said he wasn't great and definitely not our best pass rusher.  Thanks for the clarification about pressures, does that mean it doesn't include the QB just escaping pressure and throwing a complete pass?  I honestly have no idea.

[darrelgreenie]

I like Cofield, but I don't see him as a great pass rusher.  Really good run defender?  Sure.  Watching the games last year, it seemed like we were rarely able to generate much interior pressure on a consistent basis.  That seemed to be the general consensus with the team, coaches, and the local media too during last year.  I'm not saying that all lies on Cofield, I'm just saying that he's a part of it (only 2.5 sacks all year) and it's why we brought in Hatcher to help with that.

Then the way you see Cofield doesn't match with the reality. Cofield strength is the ability to generate interior pressure. Cofield had 41 total pressures playing on the interior where he was the really the only threat. Therefore he received most of the attention and he was still able to put up 41 pressures.

To put it in perspective, Hatcher another great interior rusher put up 42 pressures when he played 34 DE.

To put that in further perspective Rak/Ryan 51 and 52 total pressures playing OLB where he's often matched up against TE/RBs.

Cofield brings pressure, its what he does best. (Far better then his run stopping ability)

 

I know Kerrigan isn't Tuck (who I've never seen as a very big guy so I'm guessing he's closer to the 268), but he's our second best pass rusher in my eyes, or maybe 3rd with the addition of Hatcher.  In my opinion, you put your best pass rushers on the field on obvious passing situations. 

But you are equaiting his ability to Tuck when you assume that Kerrigan can snap his fingers and become a good/very good interior pressure enough so that it warrants taking Cofield off the field.

 

Again what makes: what makes you think Kerrigan an OLB/DE can be a good interior rusher? And what makes you think he would be better then Cofield? Cofield got 40+ interior pressures last year. Do you think Kerrigan is gonna give you that?

[Thekyle1591]

I didn't think he was particularly good against the run last year, but I thought he was much better in previous years. And I never said he wasn't a good pass rusher, I said he wasn't great and definitely not our best pass rusher. Thanks for the clarification about pressures, does that mean it doesn't include the QB just escaping pressure and throwing a complete pass? I honestly have no idea.

Pressures mean making the qb move around in the pocket or escape the pocket. And he was actually a really good interior rush guy, I didn't really notice either until I went back and watched the all-22

[darrelgreenie]

HTTR-

I get your intent (increase pass rush) but imo your plan for execution doesn't/won't get you closer to your intent then Rak-Hatch-Barry-Ryan.

[HTTRDynasty]

Okay guys.  Maybe I need to go back and watch the film, because I remember his performances differently.  If Cofield really was that good last year at rushing the passer and if he's just as good this year, I'll be happy to be proven wrong.  I still think we should draft an OLB if he's the BPA though and mess around with the match-ups (and allow us to sub in fresh bodies) so we can get our best pass rushers on the field - whether that will be having Kerrigan or Cofield playing inside - and have a replacement for Rak to use as leverage, but I'll take that argument into the draft thread, since I see it's already being discussed there.

[rk3025]

I continue to see mention of Rak and Djax being on one year deals but does Kerrigan's contract not end in 2015?  I've seen a lot of mention of teams picking up the fifth year option on former first round picks, do we have that option for Kerrigan?  

 

I'm having a hard time remembering if that was available for all first rounds picks or if it was slotted.

We have 5th year option for Kerrigan

[sjinhan]

Umm isn't this the free agency thread? Lol

Agreed...

Any real FA news?

[NickyJ]

Word on the street is that Oakland may cut Terrelle Pryor soon if they don't find a trade deal. Would he be worth giving a shot?

[redrobert]

The Cleveland Plain Dealer suggests the Browns could target Kirk Cousins in a draft-day trade.

"It's all on the table. It might even include trade discussions for Kirk Cousins," writes beat reporter Mary Kay Cabot. The Browns have ten picks in the upcoming draft, while the Redskins are without a first-rounder and may be looking for additional selections in what is widely considered the deepest draft in recent memory. The Redskins are reportedly seeking a second-round pick for Cousins. That's not going to happen. We bet they'd take a third-rounder. Ultimately, Cousins is likely to be holding the clipboard as the backup in Washington in 2014.

Per Rotoworld, today.....Nothing new here...