Chalk Talk: Film Review: Packers Vs. Redskins: Defense

[skinny21]

Almost went to a bar to watch the game and I'm real glad I didn't. Having a few drinks ain't worth the anger and lighter wallet I'd have experienced.

So... many thanks for the breakdown KDawg, always much appreciated.

The bright side to all this is that most of the issues seem correctable. Better coaching, better tackling and the youngsters gaining experience. Probably not gonna change anytime soon, but still better than believing we can't get out of the rut due to a lack of talent (especially given the cap issue and lost 1st rounders).

KDawg,

I was talking about this with some people in another thread, and I'm curious of your opinion on it.

Why aren't we running more cover-2 looks? In my opinion if we're going to run as much zone as we do, we need to incorporate some cover-2 or teams are going to eat us up underneath. I have a theory that Haslett isn't comfortable with our safeties in cover-2, but nothing to really support it.

Why aren't we running the defense we ran down the stretch last season? We pressed receivers, stacked gaps, and ran a lot of man blitzes, at the end of the season and it seemed to be working quite well. So why have we scrapped this plan?

I'm with KDawg in that I think it's the safeties. Doughty and Rambo are a bit lacking in the speed department and apparently Merriweather blew in Chicago's cover 2. 'Course coaching is probably not a bad answer either.

KDawg - I agree that man coverage is dangerous against guys like Vick and Rodgers, but I keep thinking of week 17 vs Dallas. We brought pressure from one side to force Romo sits to pee out of the pocket and then rolled coverage toward the other side of the field. Obviously Rodgers is more dangerous throwing than Romo sits to pee and Vick is a better runner, but something needed to be done to slow down those quick throws.

[Game Changer]

"Nope. That was man coverage across the board with Meriweather playing over top of everything. It's referred to as cover 1. Riley needs to make that tackle though, can't have Cobb running free. I agree with Meriweather he needs to be more disciplined there."

If you go back and watch that touchdown pass to Cobb, Fletch blitz from the MLB position. For some reason Golston initially rushed and then dropped back into no man's land in which we would have probably sacked Rodgers. I think Has is being too cute instead of playing a solid base defense. In my opinion, we need to jam at the line for the majority of the game with two deep safeties. Let the front four get pressure...if we have the depth as the coaches say, we have the bodies to get pressure throughout the game. It's time to man up and find out who can win one on one battles.

[WarpathHitchhiker]

Yep I just watched that - its in the 3rd quarter. Its not Cover 2 though - we have 5 defenders on the LOS plus a DB (Biggers?) over the slot receiver and Hall and Wilson with 8-10 yard cushions outside and Rambo centre field. Its a Cover 3 shell. We have a slot blitz called so a 6 man rush.

 

The ILBs drop in short middle zones and Hall rolls up to take the short out by the slot guy. Rambo should know by alignment and with the slot defender blitzing that Hall will roll up if the slot guy breaks out and he has to take any vertical route by the outside receiver and he is a step or so slow getting over and is beaten by Rodgers getting the ball out quickly as he did all day.

 

I'd say that was a bit slow recognition of what was happening and bit his lack of elite speed to cover that distance from a centre field starting spot. I would not kill him for that play but look at the play call in that field position asking him to do what would have been a big ask for any safety in the NFL.

 

Not trying to argue or anything with you because we have the same basic recognition of Rambo's side during coverage.  Looks to me like they are playing a cover 6, or whatever the equivalent is in the NFL.  Cover 6 where I come from is quarters on one side of the field,cover 2 on the other half.  Without being able to see the other safety I can't tell the coverage.  Looks like a zone blitz either way with coverage rolling to Rambo's side.  He needs to get over top #1 in either of our scenarios.  It does appear to be cover 3 shell by alignment. 

 

I agree with your analysis.  It's a tough play to ask a safety to make in the redzone, but it's a play an NFL caliber starting safety should make. 

[MartinC]

Not trying to argue or anything with you because we have the same basic recognition of Rambo's side during coverage.  Looks to me like they are playing a cover 6, or whatever the equivalent is in the NFL.  Cover 6 where I come from is quarters on one side of the field,cover 2 on the other half.  Without being able to see the other safety I can't tell the coverage.  Looks like a zone blitz either way with coverage rolling to Rambo's side.  He needs to get over top #1 in either of our scenarios.  It does appear to be cover 3 shell by alignment. 

 

I agree with your analysis.  It's a tough play to ask a safety to make in the redzone, but it's a play an NFL caliber starting safety should make. 

 

I could of course be wrong but it looked more like Cover 3 to me - but that was from the broadcast footage, the all 22 is not up yet. Rambo is the only safety on the field on that play, we have 4 DBs, 2 ILBs, 2 OLBs' and 3 DL on the field.

 

Either way that play was not a hanging offense in my view from Rambos point of view. If I was the HC sitting in the film review with the defensive staff I'd be asking my DC why we were running that with a rookie FS who is not blazing fast that close to our end zone.

 

There were much bigger breakdowns to get to though before we would get to that play ...

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

The bright side to all this is that most of the issues seem correctable. Better coaching, better tackling .....

 

I have spotted the flaw in your post.    

 

Hail. 

[redskins4ever28]

Kdawg, did you see my post earlier?

Could you please do a good write up on RG3s gameplay.  Everyone on ES is a couch coach.  The truth is, we dont know whether Griffin is really playing that bad and his stats are just getting padded, or hes playing good ball late and just playing terrible in the first half and you ARE someone who has the ability and the football smarts to tell us which is which.

So could you please do a write up on Griffin vs Packers?

[skinny21]

I have spotted the flaw in your post.

Hail.

Hehe, we'll its certainly a 'flaw' with the team.

They are correctable... but I'm not holding my breath. Took Has about 9 weeks to adjust last year, I'm just hoping the process is sped up a bit this year.

[WarpathHitchhiker]

It could be Cover 6 but it looked more like Cover 3 to me - but that was from the broadcast footage, the all 22 is not up yet. Rambo is the only safety on the field on that play, we have 4 DBs, 2 ILBs, 2 OLBs' and 3 DL on the field.

Either way that play was not a hanging offense in my view from Rambos point of view. If I was the HC sitting in the film review with the defensive staff I'd be asking my DC why we were running that with a rookie FS who is not blazing fast that close to our end zone.

There were much bigger breakdowns to get to though before we would get to that play ...

All good points. I think the reason you play a hard corner there is because GB had been dinking and dunking all afternoon. At some point you need to say "OK, we won't sit back in off coverage any more and give them these throws."

To me, Rambos lack of range is exactly what the issue is, and I do have the opinion that it is a big time deficiency for us. If you're saying he can't cover half the field like a true NFL safety should be able to, we limit ourselves defensively. Cover 2 goes right out the window.

Right now our secondary's "strength" is its corners. I think Haslett sees that and is asking far too much from our corners and they oftentimes catch the brunt of flack from fans on this site--DeSean Jackson's TD in the first game is a great example. Hell, he started a cornerback at safety against the Eagles--that should give you an idea of his confidence back there.

We just have a lot of work to do.

[DC9]

Thanks, KD.

 

I think this defense will come around in week 6 or 7.  They really needed the offense to carry them these first few weeks.  We had a shot against the Eagles and ran into a buzzsaw in Green Bay. 

 

We need to right the ship and that starts with coaching.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

 

I think this defense will come around in week 6 or 7.....

 

That could well be too late bro'.

 

And if this **** continues, I won't be able to bring it up as this place will of self imploded under all the vitriol and ripped a huge worm hole in the Internet thingie to be lost forever. 

 

Hail. 

[RyansRangers]

I re watched the game and here are my QUICK observations.

We need Jarvis Jenkins Back to shore up the run.

Perry Riley seems to have take. over some leadership roles and seems to be directing the defense more then fletch.

Fletch is getting run at and is getting consumed by blockers.

Rank and Kerrigan are beasts but Jenkins needs to be more situational then he is being used.

Anderson just needs time to improve and I believe he will be a great CB in time.

Rambo needs a mentor back there with him.

When pack adjusted to skins def.. skins def did not change one bit.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

giving up an easy TD on 3rd & goal from the 14 is inexcusable.

[DC9]

That could well be too late bro'.

 

And if this **** continues, I won't be able to bring it up as this place will of self imploded under all the vitriol and ripped a huge worm hole in the Internet thingie to be lost forever. 

 

Hail. 

 

Well, that's why I've been saying the window is open this year but next year is the year I expect things.  And why I've also said the loss of Thomas hurts because he's losing a valuable year of development.

 

There's still time to right the ship obviously, but early on that righting has to come from the offense.  There is more continuity at the moment on that side of the ball.  This defense can work but it has to have a lead to protect until the secondary can get it's act together.  If not, we'll be a speed bump for every team we play against.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Sounds like our defensive gameplan relied on Rodgers continuing to do 5 and 7 step drops.  When he switched to what seemed to be exclusively 3 step drops...the coverage on our back end didn't change.  I have not seen any real in-game adjustments, let alone halftime adjustments from Haslett.  It seems like he's just got pre-conceived notions for the how the game SHOULD go, and then whips up packages/blitzes/etc for that.  If the opponent's offense is different from what he expects, we're ****ed.

[MartinC]

Perry Riley seems to have take. over some leadership roles and seems to be directing the defense more then fletch.

Fletch is getting run at and is getting consumed by blockers.

 

 

Don't be surprised if Fletcher gets benched or at least starts sharing time with Barnett if things don't improve quickly.

[Roblowsta]

OVERVIEW

 

Another point is how we aligned to certain formations...

 

                                    S                 S                        C

 

 

 C                        C                   B

                                                                        B

                              B    E       N     B

WR                               T  G  C  G  T              WR

                                                                              WR

                                              Q  TE

                                   

                                                    RB

 

As you can see, we are COMPLETELY outnumbered to the right. So the Packers ran a toss that way, with the TE as the lead blocker and they pull the right guard and tackle to the right as well. We were completely, 100% outflanked.

 

All the concern with the O is warranted but we need better play from our D if we want to do anything this year.   Giving up over 1000 yards to opposing offenses over two weeks is inexcusable regardless of what our offense is... or isn't doing.  If  Shan-allen isn't taking a serious look at Haslett and Morris then our issues are much worse than I thought.  

 

I don't know if anyone has touched on this, but it's been reported that the skins don't tackle in practice.  I understand the injury concern, but it's widely known that you play like you practice.  It may not be a popular opinion but I think they need to have at least one full contact practice (excluding the QB) per week.  I would have preferred that they do this during training camp but the season is here and something needs to be done to remedy this problem.

 

Another possible fix for one of the secondary problems would be...maybe..just maybe have our DB's play the sticks.  Why the @#E$@# would our DBs play more than 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and short?  Why would we have a LB shading two receivers in stack formation with the DB playing 10 yards back?  That's what pisses me off about the defensive scheme/coaching staff.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.  I feel a little better.

[DC9]

Well... well... well....

 

JsteelzHttr24-7 ‏@JsteelznSkins 9m
 

Story gonna start to come out about our defense and people gone get pissed. Lets say we need to mix it up more, not good when they know

 

JsteelzHttr24-7 ‏@JsteelznSkins 5m
 

Believe it was Tom Clements that made the statement

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Well... well... well....

 

JsteelzHttr24-7 ‏@JsteelznSkins 9m

 

Story gonna start to come out about our defense and people gone get pissed. Lets say we need to mix it up more, not good when they know

 

JsteelzHttr24-7 ‏@JsteelznSkins 5m

 

Believe it was Tom Clements that made the statement

 

Man of the tweet thingie. 

 

Tweet him back or whatever you kids do and get this info ASAP!

 

Pressure man! Get to it!

 

Hail. 

[WarpathHitchhiker]

All the concern with the O is warranted but we need better play from our D if we want to do anything this year. Giving up over 1000 yards to opposing offenses over two weeks is inexcusable regardless of what our offense is... or isn't doing. If Shan-allen isn't taking a serious look at Haslett and Morris then our issues are much worse than I thought.

I don't know if anyone has touched on this, but it's been reported that the skins don't tackle in practice. I understand the injury concern, but it's widely known that you play like you practice. It may not be a popular opinion but I think they need to have at least one full contact practice (excluding the QB) per week. I would have preferred that they do this during training camp but the season is here and something needs to be done to remedy this problem.

Another possible fix for one of the secondary problems would be...maybe..just maybe have our DB's play the sticks. Why the @#E$@# would our DBs play more than 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and short? Why would we have a LB shading two receivers in stack formation with the DB playing 10 yards back? That's what pisses me off about the defensive scheme/coaching staff.

Thanks for letting me vent. I feel a little better.

Even college teams don't have live practices...especially in season.

You say you recognize the injury concern but I'm not quite sure you actually do--and that's not a slight against you I don't mean it to come off that way. A lot of periods during practice may be "thud" which is essentially the defense is responsible for wrapping up the ball carrier and then releasing him to finish his run...and this is about as physical as it will get in an nfl practice. A lot of the time you aren't even in "thud" you're in "tap" where a defender breaks down in front of the ball carrier and taps him below the waist with both hands.

You simply cannot risk injury with a 46 man game day roster.

edit: the guys are still running to the ball so don't take my post to mean they aren't hustling or competing, because they are. And the trenches you will see a lot more physical play during the week of practice during ALL periods, not just thud. As far as tackling is concerned though, there's not much you can do to practice it...that's what preseason is for. These are professional players, it's expected that they can tackle. If they cannot, they will not be in the nfl for very long.

[rdskn4eva]

But but but...Orakpo sucks, and he never gets ANY pressure on the QB according to posters on this board.

 

lol. I've been saying all along that Orakpo is a beast.  Kerrigan can thank Orakpo for at least 1 of his sacks yesterday.

 

Our problems on Defense isnt rushing the passer, it's subpar coverage.  We arent winning one on one battles with WR's

[martytheman]

Well... well... well....

 

JsteelzHttr24-7 ‏@JsteelznSkins 9m

 

Story gonna start to come out about our defense and people gone get pissed. Lets say we need to mix it up more, not good when they know

 

JsteelzHttr24-7 ‏@JsteelznSkins 5m

 

Believe it was Tom Clements that made the statement

 

 

So what's the story/statement??

I wanna know more about this.

[Mahons21]

Guessing the story is going to be they knew exactly what we were running, because it wasn't hard to tell.

[WarpathHitchhiker]

Guessing the story is going to be they knew exactly what we were running, because it wasn't hard to tell.

 

That's what it looks like to me too. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Well... well... well....

 

JsteelzHttr24-7 ‏@JsteelznSkins 9m

 

Story gonna start to come out about our defense and people gone get pissed. Lets say we need to mix it up more, not good when they know

 

JsteelzHttr24-7 ‏@JsteelznSkins 5m

 

Believe it was Tom Clements that made the statement

 

We're already pissed at our defense, I doubt the Packers Offensive Coordinator is going to say anything we haven't already seen for ourselves.

[mitchellvii]

Watched the Seahawks game yesterday.  Their corners were MAULING receivers off the line.  I was kind of surprised there weren't defensive holding calls they were so aggressive.

 

Result?  3 points SF.

 

With our corners playing 7 yards off the receiver has plenty of time to run a crossing pattern for a catch and run unopposed.  WHY do our coaches think the cushion works?