Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 how much college basketball do you watch? I mean you would have probably said this back in 2003 after Bron Darko, and Melo went off the board. You probably never heard of BOsh or Wade and not many were talking about those guys being franchise players. Wade was awesome. Everyone knew who he was. I don't think people knew he would be THIS good as a pro, but they knew he would be good. Basketball people knew that Bosh was a prize as well. It's really hard to be a top team without having a having a high lottery pick on your team. All NBA 2013 First team Lebron - #1 overall pick Durant - #2 overall pick Duncan - #1 overall pick Kobe - #13 overall pick Paul - #4 overall pick Second team Melo - #3 overall pick Griffin - #1 overall pick Gasol - Second rounder Parker - Late first rounder Westrbrook - #4 overall pick Third team David Lee - #30 pick (and frankly, no one is winning a title with David Lee as your top player) Paul George - #10 pick Howard - #1 overall pick Wade - #5 overall pick Harden - #3 overall pick Others receiving votes Brook Lopez - #10 pick Curry - #7 pick Aldridge - #2 pick Bosh - #4 pick Noah - #9 pick (at the time, I thought this was crazy, he should have gone #4 at worst in a really top-heavy draft. It should have been Durant, Oden, Hortford, Noah, Green, Conley. Getting him at 9 was a gift). Zbo - #19 pick Horford #3 Anyway...unless it is 10 years ago and you are drafting a foreign player, you need to be in the lottery to get a championship level star. You almost certainly need to be in the Top 5. The outliers are Kobe - who shouldn't count because that era with all the high school kids was a really difficult time to draft - and George. George is sort of amazing. The MVP level players to come from a small school and not be taken in the Top 5 in the last 50 years are Karl Malone, Steve Nash and Kobe (and Kobe shouldn't really count). What Geoge is doing is damn near unprecedented. True. But in 2012, Davis was clearly the top prize. This year, I kinda feel sorry for the team that gets the 4th pick. The #4 pick gets you a potential all star point guard if you want to be a safe and maybe the best international prospect in a decade if you want to roll the dice a bit. The top three is where you want to be in this draft, but this is a deep deep draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Wade was awesome. Everyone knew who he was. I don't think people knew he would be THIS good as a pro, but they knew he would be good. Basketball people knew that Bosh was a prize as well.no one thought Wade would be Franchise Player/HOF good. I liked dude a lot coming out of Marquette, but even I didnt think that. Believed in Bosh more than Wade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 no one thought Wade would be Franchise Player/HOF good. He did go #5 in an other-worldly draft. The big knock on him coming out of college was his size. He was known for attacking the rim and scouts wondered if he could hold up at his size. That still seems to be the one thing that teams cannot predict. In that draft, all the talk was that Darko was the toughest, meanest, most mentally strong Euro ever. And he missed games because his piercing got infected. Meanwhile, the concern was that Wade couldn't handle NBA contact. And he is the poster boy for drawing contact over a career. The best thing that happened to Wade was going to Miami and Riley. They have managed his career as well as could be possibly imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 You talking about Exum and Smart LKB? Technically Wiggins is an international prospect, though he's playing in the NCAA. Don't forget about Gordon too. I think top 6 is where you want to be this year. I think everyone is getting a potential All Star in that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 This Warrior Thunder game is fantastic. The Warriors may not finish the year as champions but so far they are easily the most entertaining team to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 This Warrior Thunder game is fantastic. The Warriors may not finish the year as champions but so far they are easily the most entertaining team to watch.Was just about to post something similar. Great stuff. Love watching these Warriors play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 O-M-G what a GAME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Iggy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 O-M-G what a GAME! Two great shots! Great end to a very entertaining game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I feel sorry for folks that couldn't stay up to see that. My goodness! Did anyone catch a glimpse of the nerd in the glasses at courtside after the game that Iggy dissed on the high five? Lol Too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Speaking of draft picks, Anthony Bennett scored a career high today. 6 points on 3-11 shooting. That raises his fg% on the season from a terrifying .048 to a merely laughable .125. If you are going to tank pick a good year to do it. This season is a great year to tank, last season... not so much. Remember when everyone here wanted him at #3? And it's not like he's a good defender either. I still think there are going to be some quality players from this draft. It's far too early to make projections, but MCW's play has single handedly turned this draft around to at the minimum, being decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 What bizarro universe are we living in where Andrea Bargnani can put the clamps on Dwight Howard? Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 What bizarro universe are we living in where Andrea Bargnani can put the clamps on Dwight Howard? Jeez. Naw, it's now bizzaro world. I just think that Howard is soft and he needs to man the heck up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Meant to post this earlier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FFh9EPfjIQ Making it look easy out there... Edited November 15, 2013 by MLSKINS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 Naw, it's now bizzaro world. I just think that Howard is soft and he needs to man the heck up. I just asked myself this question...do I (you) think that Howard has shown any improvement over the past 4-5 years? Is it a stretch to say that he plateued? He's going to have to step it up if the Rockets want any sort of a chance to make it out of the West. There are too many good teams who would have an easy time gameplanning how to stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Remember when everyone here wanted him at #3? And it's not like he's a good defender either. I still think there are going to be some quality players from this draft. It's far too early to make projections, but MCW's play has single handedly turned this draft around to at the minimum, being decent. One player does not a decent class make. But I do think it will at least become alright because MCW looks good and Ben McLemore and Victor Oladipo should end up being pretty good. The problem with this class so far is that three of the first six picks haven't even so much as practiced with their teams yet and the #1 guy is struggling majorly. That's pretty brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Remember when everyone here wanted him at #3? That would have been better for him. Cleveland has a backcourt made up of two guys who look for their shot first and then look for their shot again and then they pass. The backup PG is noted gunner Jarrett Jack. The coach is Mike Brown whose entire offense for years was "clear out for Lebron and - I dunno - maybe try to get open on the three point line or something." Not that the Wizards are an offensive machine, but John Wall would get Bennett looks. He would have gotten a dunk or two in the first week of the season at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Rubio is going to end up being a rich man's Rondo. He'll be the reason Kevin Love stays in Minnesota and the New York plan is a hilarious pipe dream. Minnesota. Houston. OKC. Golden State. Portland. So. many. loaded. young. West. teams. Thank God the Wizards aren't in the West. We'd never even make the postseason as an 8 seed. Teams don't play defense in the West though. That's why the Spurs have to be the odds on favorite to make the Finals again this season. Edited November 15, 2013 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) I was trying to think of drafts that compared to last year. I've always assumed that the 2001 draft was a trainwreck because of Kwame Brown and Eddy Curry. If you go back, that was a pretty good draft top to bottom. Redraft it today 1. Pau Gasol 2. Tony Parker 3. Tyson Chandler 4. Shane Battier 5. Zack Randolph 6. Joe Johnson 7. Gilbert Arenas 8. Gerald Wallace 9. Richard Jefferson 10. Jason Richardson 11. Brendon Haywood 12. Mehmet Okur That's really not bad. What's bizarre is how many of those guys had to move once or twice or even three times to find a fit. The NBA was just terrible at developing young talent then. I think last year's draft is going to have a pretty good number of guys who are the 4th and 5th players on good teams. A lot of those cats are going to have to land somewhere else though. Bad teams drafting marginal talents in the lottery is not a great formula. Edited November 15, 2013 by Lombardi's_kid_brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Shaq and Charles have both said on many occasions that Howard has failed to develop as an offensive player. Still posts up too far out and lacks a counter move when they defend the jump hook. Shaq spoke about how he's not getting easy buckets by positioning himself correctly early enough, that that alone would up his scoring significantly. It was funny watching Shaq and Charles demonstrate how it's done because despite barely moving around Charles was breathing heavy. Big boy needs to spend a little time working out though that probably hard without functioning knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 Shaq and Charles have both said on many occasions that Howard has failed to develop as an offensive player. Still posts up too far out and lacks a counter move when they defend the jump hook. Shaq spoke about how he's not getting easy buckets by positioning himself correctly early enough, that that alone would up his scoring significantly. It was funny watching Shaq and Charles demonstrate how it's done because despite barely moving around Charles was breathing heavy. Big boy needs to spend a little time working out though that probably hard without functioning knees. Crazy part of it all is Dwight has worked extensively with both Hakeem Olajuwon and Pat Ewing and still sucks in the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) One player does not a decent class make. But I do think it will at least become alright because MCW looks good and Ben McLemore and Victor Oladipo should end up being pretty good. The problem with this class so far is that three of the first six picks haven't even so much as practiced with their teams yet and the #1 guy is struggling majorly. That's pretty brutal. It will be a while before anyone knows what to make of Len and Noel due to injuries and because raw bigs take years. Consider what what Monroe and Hibbert looked like early and both of those guys were probably more NBA ready prospects. I think the draft ends up being as expected, no stars but some good nba players. Do you ever check the rookie ladder on NBA.com? I had fun watching it last year as Beal started to improve late. I think was second at the end of the season. http://www.nba.com/rookie-ladder/ Edited November 15, 2013 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Shaq and Charles have both said on many occasions that Howard has failed to develop as an offensive player. Still posts up too far out and lacks a counter move when they defend the jump hook. Shaq spoke about how he's not getting easy buckets by positioning himself correctly early enough, that that alone would up his scoring significantly. It was funny watching Shaq and Charles demonstrate how it's done because despite barely moving around Charles was breathing heavy. Big boy needs to spend a little time working out though that probably hard without functioning knees. Unless you have 16 moves and a jumper like Kevin McHale or Hakeem or Pau Gasol, good post up play is always about your initial position. Barkley was probably the best ever at this. Shaq - to his credit - understood this and got his position through pure strength. Charles was so small, he had to work like crazy to get to his spot. Shaq only really had two moves, but he always got so deep that he was basically shooting a layup when he finished the move. Both of those moves were also capable of sending the defender into the crowd which was helpful. Howard almost always gets his initial pass near the foul line. He's not a great shooter so he can't go to a fadeaway from there. He's not a great dribbler so he can't back the guy down. All he can really do is that jump hook towards the middle and its too easy to make that a 10 footer. He has one more year to figure this out. If having daily access to Kevin McHale (who has a track record with big men) and Hakeem isn't enough, nothing is enough. Orlando is partially to blame for this. They figured out that he was really good on pick and rolls because of his athleticism and never really asked him to do anything else. I sometimes wonder if the problem is that he is uncoachable or if he has never been coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I just asked myself this question...do I (you) think that Howard has shown any improvement over the past 4-5 years? Is it a stretch to say that he plateued? He's going to have to step it up if the Rockets want any sort of a chance to make it out of the West. There are too many good teams who would have an easy time gameplanning how to stop him. Honestly, I just think his confidence has been shot. He used to be the darling of the media, but then that fiasco in Orlando happened... Then the, fiasco in LA happened. Because of that, I think he is trying to hard to prove everybody wrong. I know this is cliche, but maybe he just needs to start having fun playing basketball again. I don't think he was reached his peaked yet, but boy he needs to figure it out. Luckily for him, he has a squad. Until he gets it together, the Rockets will be fine. But if they think they will be able to compete in the west with Howard going 1-5, they are going to be in for a rude awakening... Speaking of the West, that Thunder/Warrior game was fun. Was so pissed that I had to stay up late and watch it, but I had to. I was about to cut it off in the 4th, but something told me to keep watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I think we all need to stop expecting Howard to become a dominant offensive player and accept that he never will be. If he was going to become that it would have happened 5 years ago. People need to see Howard for what he is, a great defensive player and a great rebounding big man that can score well enough. His problems are his foul shooting and his likelihood of doing something stupid without reason or warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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