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The Official ES Redskins Name Change Thread---All Things Related to Changing the Team's Name Go Here

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Guest Spearfeather

I like Redskins too.

 

~Bang

 

 

Still trying to figure out why you're using a picture of Darrel Issa as your avatar, but whatever .....

 

 

 

 

Excellent post elkabong82. Couldn't agree more. Changing the name, will not make things better.

 

 

 

Hail to the Redskins.

Edited by Spearfeather
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Honestly, that minority that wants all Native American imagery out of sports and media can have their way, but only if we're allowed to remove all references to Native Americans entirely.

 

"The Europeans made it to this land which had no other peoples on it.  The first Thanksgiving was a celebration of their rugged individualism and ability to survive off the of the land without any outside help.  Lewis and Clark made the journey west only with their keen understanding of the land and maybe a little luck.  Custer died in a tragic friendly fire incident.  The British and future Americans successfully defeated the French in the French and French War.  And no genocides ever occurred on either American continent."

 

After all, if any reference in sports, no matter what it actually is, perpetuates a negative stereotype, then any reference anywhere perpetuates a negative stereotype.

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Wanted to post this last night during the Cards-Cubs rain delay, but the keyboard on my phone would not stay up. That 90% poll polled 768 Native Americans. There are 5,220,579 Native Americans in this country. They polled about 0.015% of the Native American population.

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Wanted to post this last night during the Cards-Cubs rain delay, but the keyboard on my phone would not stay up. That 90% poll polled 768 Native Americans. There are 5,220,579 Native Americans in this country. They polled about 0.015% of the Native American population.

And therefore?

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Wanted to post this last night during the Cards-Cubs rain delay, but the keyboard on my phone would not stay up. That 90% poll polled 768 Native Americans. There are 5,220,579 Native Americans in this country. They polled about 0.015% of the Native American population.

And therefore?

 

Therefore clearly the remaining 5,219,811 Native Americans are AGAINST the name! Otherwise we wouldn't be hearing about it, right?

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I know I sound like a broken record, but KEEP THE NAME... CHANGE THE LOGO TO A RED SKINNED DEVIL/ DEMON!

 

1. It totally decimates any mock outrage anybody could have.

2. We get to keep the name.

3. Dan could use it as a subliminal kiss off to the paper he wanted to sue.

4. Have the logo/mascot holding a whiskey and a revolver (Tribute to  Bullets) and REALLY give the PC police something to foam at the mouth about. Just think, one logo change would give us an imagery that even Raider fans would be jealous of.

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So poll them all.

..or take five people's word for it.

 

 

I don't want a devil or a demon. I like our logo, it's proud and it's strong. 

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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Wanted to post this last night during the Cards-Cubs rain delay, but the keyboard on my phone would not stay up. That 90% poll polled 768 Native Americans. There are 5,220,579 Native Americans in this country. They polled about 0.015% of the Native American population.

 

 

theres plenty of evidence outside of that one poll  that indicates similar results. 

 

your post seems to indicate that you discount it, so, what evidence do you have to the contrary?

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Wanted to post this last night during the Cards-Cubs rain delay, but the keyboard on my phone would not stay up. That 90% poll polled 768 Native Americans. There are 5,220,579 Native Americans in this country. They polled about 0.015% of the Native American population.

768 is fine as a sample size provided there are no major flaws in how they conducted the poll. Many presidential polls that are reasonably accurate poll 1000 or fewer Americans, and there are well over 100 million voters in each election.

While I would like to see more actual polls on the issue purely among Native Americans to create a pattern, there doesn't appear to be anything major inherently wrong with the poll, and so it should be taken as the best authority on the subject at this time.

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I know I sound like a broken record, but KEEP THE NAME... CHANGE THE LOGO TO A RED SKINNED DEVIL/ DEMON!

 

1. It totally decimates any mock outrage anybody could have.

2. We get to keep the name.

3. Dan could use it as a subliminal kiss off to the paper he wanted to sue.

4. Have the logo/mascot holding a whiskey and a revolver (Tribute to  Bullets) and REALLY give the PC police something to foam at the mouth about. Just think, one logo change would give us an imagery that even Raider fans would be jealous of.

you know, thats not totally outrageous. i would never want to change our name or logo, but its an interesting concept. 

 

wonder where harjo and her 5 friends would stand on that one?

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So poll them all.

..or take five people's word for it.

 

 

I don't want a devil or a demon. I like our logo, it's proud and it's strong. 

 

~Bang

I'm with you Bang, but the reality is... The Coalition of the Falsely Outraged are undefeated in these matters: If They want a name changed... it gets changed. If someone says something They don't like... that person gets fired even if they issue public apologies.

If they decide a simple word needs to become offensive, then it becomes designated as "The (insert initial here) word".

 

I was never the biggest George Carlin fan but his monlogues on percieved damage over vocabulary was some pretty good stuff.

 

It's the world we live in and I guess I'm just pushing this agenda to plant the seed in the hearts and minds of the fanbase for an alternative when the inevitable happens. HTTR

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I feel like this article is relevant. It shows how offensive various terms are to the general public. Compare that to any polls concerning the word Redskin, and you'll see that one is not like the others.

channels.isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/hatefulwords/hatefulwords&floc=wn-nx

Can we tonka truck this thread yet?

No, we have to wait until 2018 when we've definitively proven UnWise Mike wrong on his prediction that the name would change. Edited by DogofWar1
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If i am Snyder I take a phased approach to it. 

1) Remove native related images from new materials.  Go to something like the old script R for the logo

2) Change the logo (which is never used) to a peanut of potato

3) Keep name redskins for good and be able to claim that it no longer refers to native americans.

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Every time people come in and say what the name will be changed to, I feel the need to post something like this.

 

Dan Snyder trademarked "Washington Warriors" not long after he bought the Skins. Yes, it was for an AFL team that never appeared....but it was also a business move for if/when a change takes place. So, throwing out suggestions are cool and all. I like FC Washington without a mascot name. That would actually be a really good idea. But lets be honest. It'll be the Warriors if it happens.

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Wanted to post this last night during the Cards-Cubs rain delay, but the keyboard on my phone would not stay up. That 90% poll polled 768 Native Americans. There are 5,220,579 Native Americans in this country. They polled about 0.015% of the Native American population.

Do you really think that all polls all over the country poll every person within that group?  That would be hard to do and pretty much impossible. That's why you get a sample to represent what is what the results would be if everyone were able to be polled.

No matter what, if they do end up changing it, I'll continue to wear my Redskins stuff and still refer to them as the Redskins.  I've recently started calling the Wizards the Bullets again. That will be MY own private protest back, but I'll probably be dead by the time the change happens.

 

 

 

And I still see that no one has responded to this on the other page.

 

"It's obvious that despite Pollin changing the name from Bullets to Wizards, we both still remain fans of the team.  I never said I wouldn't root for the Redskins if they did change their name, but it would be more devastating then when the Bullets changed their name.  Can you honestly sit here with a straight face and say you enjoy referring to your basketball team as the Wizards?  I'm sorry, but nicknames are part of the identity of that team in that sport, otherwise, Cleveland wouldn't have fought to keep the "Browns", Seattle to keep the "Supersonics" or Charlotte getting back their beloved "Hornets" name.  Again, I call BS on anyone who says the name Redskins doesn't mean anything. And you don't think if Indianapolis or Tenneessee gave up the Colts and Oilers that Baltimore and Houston might not even consider it?  Hell, there was the movie "When Harry met Sally" that revolved around the directors love for the Colts and they had a Colts wedding. Not a Baltimore wedding."

 

Edited by pjfootballer

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Actually PJ, the Baltimore Colts themed wedding was in the movie Diner, not When Harry Met Sally. I get your point about what team names and imagery mean to a community. 

 

There was a small push to reclaim the Colts name for the new NFL team in Baltimore circa 1996, but the Colts name and imagery belonged to Bob Irsay in Indy, and not the city of Baltimore. Art Modell agreed to leave the Browns name and imagery with Cleveland, bc he didn't really need or want it in Baltimore. The Colts had different needs when they landed in Indy a decade earlier.

Edited by RFKFedEx

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Every time people come in and say what the name will be changed to, I feel the need to post something like this.

 

Dan Snyder trademarked "Washington Warriors" not long after he bought the Skins. Yes, it was for an AFL team that never appeared....but it was also a business move for if/when a change takes place. So, throwing out suggestions are cool and all. I like FC Washington without a mascot name. That would actually be a really good idea. But lets be honest. It'll be the Warriors if it happens.

 

I was thinking about FC Washington. I really like that direction for a new team name. I don't care for "Warriors", but I wouldn't mind going with Washington Seminoles....screw regional affiliation!

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Actually PJ, the Baltimore Colts themed wedding was in the movie Diner, not When Harry Met Sally. I get your point about what team names and imagery mean to a community. 

 

There was a small push to reclaim the Colts name for the new NFL team in Baltimore circa 1996, but the Colts name and imagery belonged to Bob Irsay in Indy, and not the city of Baltimore. Art Modell agreed to leave the Browns name and imagery with Cleveland, bc he didn't really need or want it in Baltimore. The Colts had different needs when they landed in Indy a decade earlier.

 

Modell wanted to take the Browns name with him, but lost that battle with the city and finally agreed to leave it behind with all the colors, etc. Ugh, what an awful owner over the years.

 

7827973992_c4ec63227d.jpg

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Again, i don't care if they're undefeated,,  (which is untrue,  the fools of this planet most assuredly have been beaten by sense and reason, over and over. )

 

See the link above i posted to the flat earth society. Actual real people who absoutely refuse to recognize the world is round. Something that is universally known as an absolute fact. (and back when the debate over it was still unsettled they were VERY loud.)

 

as a species we owe it to our own future to stand for reality, and not bend over backwards to the ignorance of those who refuse to acknowledge it

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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Actually PJ, the Baltimore Colts themed wedding was in the movie Diner, not When Harry Met Sally. I get your point about what team names and imagery mean to a community. 

 

There was a small push to reclaim the Colts name for the new NFL team in Baltimore circa 1996, but the Colts name and imagery belonged to Bob Irsay in Indy, and not the city of Baltimore. Art Modell agreed to leave the Browns name and imagery with Cleveland, bc he didn't really need or want it in Baltimore. The Colts had different needs when they landed in Indy a decade earlier.

You're right, it was Diner.  I think my point was, Baltimore was one of the first cities that really regretted not trying to keep the Colts name because it was important to them. I think if they could have back in 1984, the would have. Alot of cities are now fighting to keep their names and history.

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Wanted to post this last night during the Cards-Cubs rain delay, but the keyboard on my phone would not stay up. That 90% poll polled 768 Native Americans. There are 5,220,579 Native Americans in this country. They polled about 0.015% of the Native American population.

 

You clearly don't understand how polling works, otherwise you would not have made that statement. Polls have various measures to ensure randomness so that they can use a small portion to represent a whole. Or do you really think you know better than a Nationally accepted poll and its scientifically-backed methods?

 

The Redskins question was reserved only for polled people who identified as Native American. they did not know the question would be asked. The poll was for information about the public meant to help election officials by understanding trends. Out of the total number of respondents to the poll, 1.5% were Native American, which is about the percentage of Native Americans in the U.S. The poll is conducted through various measures meant to ensure randomness. By polling at random, over thousands of people across the country, trends can be established. So in this case, and the case with most polls, a cross section of random Americans is polled, and because it is so random, even a small number of people polled can represent a majority opinion, ESPECIALLY when it is at 90%.

 

Let me put it this way: If you poll 768 random people across America, and get 90% in agreement on an issue, the odds weigh HEAVILY in favor of the rest of America feeling the same.

 

Let's see if you answer this: What do you think the odds are that out of 768 random Americans polled across the country that identified as Native American that 90% would be fine with the name but in reality the majority are not fine with the name? I'll give you a hint: It's a smaller likelihood than Tony Romo NOT throwing an INT in a big game.

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Actually, my response to people trying to find reasons to ignore the poll (I've seen people simply making declarations like "well, I bet they only polled Redskins season ticket holders", or "well, the people they polled weren't Native enough".), has been: 

 

Don't like the poll?  Run another one

 

Polls don't cost much.  There's several reputable sompanies who do it for a living. 

 

(Heck, it's possible that years of biased media coverage has changed the results, some.) 

 

Especially when your entire legal case consists of asserting "this is offensive", why would the plaintiffs not make any attempt whatsoever to actually prove what they're claiming? 

 

I can only think of one.  It's because they know that another poll would say pretty much what the first one said. 

Edited by Larry

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You're right, it was Diner.  I think my point was, Baltimore was one of the first cities that really regretted not trying to keep the Colts name because it was important to them. I think if they could have back in 1984, the would have. Alot of cities are now fighting to keep their names and history.

 

There was nothing the city of Baltimore could do to legally retain anything 'Colts' themed in 1984. Team names and imagery are protected assets belonging to the owners and nobody else. It would play out the same way today, unless an owner has a reason to abandon a name like Modell with the Browns. Bud Adams took the Houston Oilers' name and imagery with him to Tenn in 1997. Teams today frequently wear throwback unis from defunct franchises and former cities, thus some sort of deal has been reached to make more $. I'm not expecting the Ravens to ever sport Colts unis, it would still be way too painful for the fans.

 

Two great books which document the Colts and other sports team relocations are: When the Colts Belonged to Baltimore c1994, and Field of Schemes c2008. The issue of team name and imagery retaining efforts are covered in both books, especially FoS.

 

Ultimately, I don't believe Harjo or the Congressional Native caucus will achieve their goal of 'legally' stripping the name and imagery from Snyder. However, father time will reward their efforts as society continues the gradual drift away from usage of Native themes.

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