Per PFT 3/14/13: Competition Committee proposes 6 rule changes, 3 bylaw changes

[bowhunter]

Leading with the crown is for all intents and purposes turning your body into a battering ram.

Completely unnecessary.

I'm unsure if I disagree more strongly with the "completely" part or the "unnecessary." Either way, I like my football as a contact sport. To each his own

[KDawg]

I'm unsure if I disagree more strongly with the "completely" part or the "unnecessary." Either way, I like my football as a contact sport. To each his own

How does being unable to lead with the crown make football a non contact sport?

[Hitman21ST]

I'm unsure if I disagree more strongly with the "completely" part or the "unnecessary." Either way, I like my football as a contact sport. To each his own

Let me refer you to one of our own:

Not sure if you can get any more "contact" than that, and what how Sean hits Moorman. He doesn't lead with the crown of his head at all. He lowers his shoulder and hits Moorman squarely with his shoulder. In fact most (if not all) of Sean's "big" hits came from leading with the shoulder. Or, as most people put it, a "good tackle".

It's fun how you assume that by saying leading with the crown is completely unnecessary, KDawg is trying to turn football into flag or touch football.

[MrJL]

the biggest rule change the NFL could implement that would reduce injuries. Weight limits and reduction in the maximum amount of time doing physical training. The NFL was still huge in the 70's and 80's. The league wouldn't take a massive hit bringing player sizes down to 80's levels. Smaller players propelling themselves at slightly slower speeds would reduce the injury risk

[Hitman21ST]

the biggest rule change the NFL could implement that would reduce injuries. Weight limits and reduction in the maximum amount of time doing physical training. The NFL was still huge in the 70's and 80's. The league wouldn't take a massive hit bringing player sizes down to 80's levels. Smaller players propelling themselves at slightly slower speeds would reduce the injury risk

You can limit size, sure. But you'll have a hard time limiting speed. If the players get smaller, they will get faster. It might not be immediate, but over three or four years, they will get faster. Hell, even the bigger players are getting faster. There were some DL and OL running 4.5s and 4.6s. As I'm sure you know, force = mass x acceleration. So smaller players colliding at higher speeds will generate the same amount of force that bigger players at lower speeds would. And that might even increase the chance of injury, because there is less natural "padding" when the players collide.

[MrJL]

You can limit size, sure. But you'll have a hard time limiting speed. If the players get smaller, they will get faster. It might not be immediate, but over three or four years, they will get faster. Hell, even the bigger players are getting faster. There were some DL and OL running 4.5s and 4.6s. As I'm sure you know, force = mass x acceleration. So smaller players colliding at higher speeds will generate the same amount of force that bigger players at lower speeds would. And that might even increase the chance of injury, because there is less natural "padding" when the players collide.

that's why you decrease their workout time

[BTBIRD 227]

Boy the league sure tries to pursue their agenda to Homogenize the game. The one possible rule change about cut blocking and such, sure sounds like a Mora idea. The possible rule change about the crown being used as a weapon is plain ridiculous. a player has learned/played his whole career to carry the ball and run with authority. You ask a running back to change his style, I think you will open the door for more fumbles and botched hand offs between the RB and QB. The running back will now have to "THINK' about his duties as a runner, instead of performing with his natural talents. The running back has enough to think about to get to the hole or pick up the Blitz, and on top of all that worrying about 11 angry players trying to seperate you from the ball. Now the League wants to manage each and every play, and you leave the decision to the refs if the Running back leads with his head or not. The League /Refs would not be able to create a consistant jugement on the field, this possiable rule is Lunacy.

I do agree about field readiness and field maintance. We now have a dynamic QB and poor field conditions is allready shown this is a reciepe for disaster. We need to tend to the field as if the field it self is a player.

[bowhunter]

Or, as most people put it, a "good tackle".

It's fun how you assume that by saying leading with the crown is completely unnecessary, KDawg is trying to turn football into flag or touch football.

Never said it or assumed it, so not all that fun. I've seen that video before, and although I enjoy it, it has nothing to do with a runner reducing his surface area by falling forward helmet first. Morman is a great example there of a large target.

It's obvious that I am not going to convince you or KDawg of the negative (IMO) implications of this rule change, so I'll just drop it. But please keep this exchange in the back of your mind. This fall when we receive a 15 yard penalty for Morris finishing his run and falling forward for positive yardage, maybe you'll remember this. At that time, it will be OK to think "Damn, it's just not fair for bowhunter to be both better looking than me AND right about this issue."

But then again, I've been wrong before

[KDawg]

I don't support/reject a rule due to the fact that it may impact the Redskins negatively or positively. I view it as a coach who values safety.

[HighOnHendrix]

As far as leading with the crown, why is it bad for defensive players but ok for running backs? It's been outlawed for some time for DBs to lead with the head. Remember when Mark Carrier kept getting suspended for it including the year he played for us? That was at least ten years ago.

[MrJL]

As far as leading with the crown, why is it bad for defensive players but ok for running backs? It's been outlawed for some time for DBs to lead with the head. Remember when Mark Carrier kept getting suspended for it including the year he played for us? That was at least ten years ago.

because DB's lower the head at a relatively stationary target and launch when they lead with the crown. A RB would lower the head just before the hit and would actually probably try to slide over from the crown to the shoulder. Totally different contact

[Hitman21ST]

Never said it or assumed it, so not all that fun. I've seen that video before, and although I enjoy it, it has nothing to do with a runner reducing his surface area by falling forward helmet first. Morman is a great example there of a large target.

It's obvious that I am not going to convince you or KDawg of the negative (IMO) implications of this rule change, so I'll just drop it. But please keep this exchange in the back of your mind. This fall when we receive a 15 yard penalty for Morris finishing his run and falling forward for positive yardage, maybe you'll remember this. At that time, it will be OK to think "Damn, it's just not fair for bowhunter to be both better looking than me AND right about this issue."

But then again, I've been wrong before

See below for my response:

I don't support/reject a rule due to the fact that it may impact the Redskins negatively or positively. I view it as a coach who values safety.

Runners can initiate contact, as can defenders, without leading with their helmet. Acting as though the helmet is the only way to initiate contact is laughably asenine.

[DeadExField]

I think Jeff Fisher explained it perfectly. He explained that it would have to be blatant, outside of the tackle box, with the crown of the helmet (you'd basically have to be kissing your belly button while running)

[KDawg]

I think Jeff Fisher explained it perfectly. He explained that it would have to be blatant, outside of the tackle box, with the crown of the helmet (you'd basically have to be kissing your belly button while running)

Which, by the way, is what leading with the crown of the helmet is. Tucking your chin and barreling into a defender. It's just not necessary.

[MartinC]

Which, by the way, is what leading with the crown of the helmet is. Tucking your chin and barreling into a defender. It's just not necessary.

Agreed and its also not a natural action by a ball carrier. What worries me though is how the officials will interpret the rule and the potential for yet another area of inconsistent officiating.

[KDawg]

I think some of these rules shouldn't be 15 yard penalties. If horrendously blatant, perhaps ejections can occur (and while that is still a judgment call, I would say officials should have to be in agreement on any hit that can be judged as an ejection and must have set criteria). But really, I think the rule should be in place for film review and fines. I think the same should be the case for defensive players doing it.

[HighOnHendrix]

I have nothing against refs making judgement calls. They should have more leeway to make commonsense decisions, not less. If they did, you wouldn't see asinine calls like the Jim Schwartz thing, the tuck rule, and plays that can't be reviewed. These things happen b/c their hands are tied, similar to judges having to follow mandatory minimum sentencing laws.

---------- Post added March-19th-2013 at 08:52 AM ----------

I think some of these rules shouldn't be 15 yard penalties. If horrendously blatant, perhaps ejections can occur (and while that is still a judgment call, I would say officials should have to be in agreement on any hit that can be judged as an ejection and must have set criteria). But really, I think the rule should be in place for film review and fines. I think the same should be the case for defensive players doing it.

I agree and I'll add that I miss the 5-yard facemask call. Not every grab, tug, or errant finger is worthy of a 15-yarder.

[pjfootballer]

The player safety agenda has gotten way out of hand in the league IMO. Mike Golic pretty much said this this morning and he said there is only so much you can do because of the way the game is played.

[emor09]

@judybattista

Ban on peel back blocks and overloading on FG and PAT tries approves by owners. No other rule change votes taken yet

[Bifflog]

Contact sports are a dying breed in countries as litigious as the United States is becoming. I know Brazil, Japan, Russia will make nice homes for MMA once it's outlawed, but I have no idea who will pick up American Football. Probably no one.

[DeadExField]

Agreed and its also not a natural action by a ball carrier. What worries me though is how the officials will interpret the rule and the potential for yet another area of inconsistent officiating.

Check the Jeff Fisher brief interview vid on nfl.com about enforcement. The refs will probably fail to be perfect as always. They also stated that it would be a judgement call, and the refs would have to read the intent of the player and read the player's body language. This leads me to believe that they won't abuse this rule and will have to look closely and confirm with each other.

I understood it as the player would have to pause, square up, lower his helmet and initiate contact with the defender with the crown of his helmet, with the intent to make contact with the helmet. Incidental contact with the helmets would probably not be confused with this. It takes some effort for a player to make this decision. However this will not be enforced in goal line situations, and possible not on scoring plays, but I may be wrong on scoring plays

[Flipsyde]

In regards to the running back leading with their heads, I was watching one Cow*insert insult here* game and the running back lowered his head, as soon as contact was initiated rose up, hitting the db under the mask and snapping his head back something awful. He ended up knocking out the db for a few seconds, I don't remember the extent of the injuries, but I remember thinking if that were a db, that would have been 15 yards, a highlight reel moment, and people screaming that the RB needed more protection.

[pjfootballer]

If the league is so in to "safety" for the players, why do they have a penalty for facemask and a penalty for illegal hands to the face (on offensive linemen and defensive linemen) to protect players necks from being bent back, yet, there is nothing that keeps a ball carrier from putting the palm of his hand into the facemask of a defender, pushing his head and neck back as a form of stiffarm (not talking about grabbing it)? It that not dangerous also? I've seen guys necks wrenched so far back, it looks like it's going to pop off. I remember arguing with some of you in here last year around this time when they were making rule changes and basically got called stupid when I asked why the RB cannot stiff arm in the chest or shoulder as opposed to the facemask.

[deejaydana]

+1

The NFL game, as it's now played and called, hardly resembles the sport I grew up watching in the 70's and 80's. I understand the NFL ramping up the PR machine to make the game look more caring but it's a completely two faced gesture. Evidence? They still don't care for their veterans (that is, retirees) on medical fronts. I don't see how this RB helmet rule can reasonably be enforced but we'll see. May by 2014 they can wear flags around their waists.

[KCClybun]

...Does anyone actually watch how Alfred Morris runs?

Alfred Morris runs through contact with his shoulder, not the crowd of his head. In pass pro and in the run game he always runs with the crowd of his helmet up, and the only time he doesn't is when he covers up the ball or in goal line sets.

You're not SUPPOSED to run with your head down, and you're not supposed to run through people with the crown of your helmet. You initiate contract with your shoulder and you run through contact with your legs. All you do if you run into people with the crown of your helmet is put yourself at risk for injury.

I sort of think the "OH THE NFL IS TRYING TO RUIN THE GAME!" aspect of this is kind of overplayed and tired. It seems like the rule isn't going to penalize a guy for protecting himself by lower his head to cover the football, but for guys who use their helmets as weapons to blast through defenders. It does leave a gray area and there will be bad calls, but I don't think it's going to ruin the game.

Certainly not gonna ruin Alfred's game.