rick7423 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Can't they cut JAMAL BROWN and save some money? It worded for me in Madden. They did, but he has $3.3M dead cap money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Can't they cut JAMAL BROWN and save some money? It worded for me in Madden. Try cutting Hall after the 2013 franchise season like we just did. It will ding you 7.5 million in dead cap space for some reason. Smh EA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johns Bass Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Am I the only one totally in the dark about how the Skins plan to create enough cap room to sign our draft picks, let alone Fred Davis?Are there any indications as to who else the FO is looking to extend/restructure? Where is the cap room?! I am not too worried about draft picks. Remember that until the season starts, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. And for every new player that makes the list, #51 comes off the cap. Those probably being in the $500k a year area. So, based on last years rookie signings, rounds 4 and below would not make the cap list (less than $500k first year capped). The Redskins picks in rounds 2 & 3 might add up to about 2 million for the 2013 salary cap but two guys will also come off the list at $500k each. Total cap hit for signing rookies is about a million dollars for 2013...Provided there are at least 51 players on the salary list. Restructuring contracts can really wipe out future cap room if not done right (see Cowboys). I think the FO is going about the situation the right way to avoid blowing up next years cap also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I am not too worried about draft picks. Remember that until the season starts, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. And for every new player that makes the list, #51 comes off the cap. Those probably being in the $500k a year area. So, based on last years rookie signings, rounds 4 and below would not make the cap list (less than $500k first year capped). The Redskins picks in rounds 2 & 3 might add up to about 2 million for the 2013 salary cap but two guys will also come off the list at $500k each. Total cap hit for signing rookies is about a million dollars for 2013...Provided there are at least 51 players on the salary list. Restructuring contracts can really wipe out future cap room if not done right (see Cowboys and Vinnie's Redskins 2000 - 2009). I think the FO is going about the situation the right way to avoid blowing up next years cap also. Fixed it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johns Bass Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Fixed it for you. Well played, sir. Dallas has 8 guys with a 10 million plus Dead cap...Skins have 2( Williams and RGIII). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well played, sir. Dallas has 8 guys with a 10 million plus Dead cap...Skins have 2( Williams and RGIII). I am a little confused. What is the dead cap for RGIII? Why is it $17M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johns Bass Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Dead cap is what is left of a players guaranteed money after he is no longer with the team. Cut, traded, retired, ect. Right now, RG III has 17 Mil guaranteed (signing bonus money). So, if for some reason he was no longer with the team, the Redskins would take an immediate cap hit of $17 million. However, as long as he is with the team the guaranteed money is still prorated against the cap. Dead cap isn't bad for the right guys. Young players that you are going to keep like RG III and Trent. The problem comes in when a team tries to get under the cap by restructuring contracts of players to give them more bonus and less salary which is more cap friendly today but after awhile you are kinda stuck with them because you can't cut them and even if you trade them you still get hit with the dead cap. If a player is gone, the only thing that comes off the cap is non-guaranteed money - basically salary. The team is better off to restructure the contract that is incentive based which would pay the incentives off in the next year, against that years cap, if they are reached versus stretching out a multi-year contract that hits your cap for years to come. If a players salary minus their dead cap is a negative number then a team loses by getting rid of the dude because the dead cap comes into play immediately. You are really paying a a guy NOT to play for you in that instance. Santana Moss restructured his contract with the Not Likely To Be Earned Incentive way. If he reaches his incentives, he will makeup this years salary next year but it it if he is gone next year that is all that will affect next years cap - the incentives that he reaches. And if he doesn't play next year then that is only cap hit the team takes for him. On the other hand, if they gave him a three year contract with a $3 mil signing bonus but at a minimum salary this year to make up his salary cut, they would save more money against this years cap but would be looking at $2 mil dead cap that would hit next years cap if he did not play past 2013 because the signing bonus is guaranteed. In any case, NLTBE incentives are not counted against the current years cap. Conversely, Hall had a $9 mil salary but only a $300,000 dead cap. So when the Skins cut him they saw a cap relief of salary - guaranteed money; $9 mil - 300k = $8.7 mil added to this years cap. Basically, the Redskins FO is making moves that will least affect their future caps and taking their beating in 2013. It's tuff love but it is the best plan. So, where can the Skins get the most cap space this year by cutting a single player? Josh Wilson. $3.9 Mil salary - $1,333,334 dead cap. And if they wait until June 1 or declare him as a June 1 designee they can spread that dead cap over two years, which I expect they would do if it came down to it. $3.9 mil - $666,667 = $3,233,333 cap space this season with a dead cap carry over to 2014 of $666,667. Pretty livable numbers. Now, why not restructure his deal to a lower salary and a signing bonus that would reduce this years cap? Because bonuses are cumulative. So if they restructured to give him say a $8 mil signing bonus over 4 years but a $900,000 salary this year (which would escalate). He puts almost $9 mil in his pocket this year and the Redskins would save a million dollars against the cap this year but would incur a dead cap of the original bonus (1.3 mil) plus another $8 mil because of the new (guaranteed) signing bonus... a total of 9.3 mil...now they are stuck with him for probably 3 years because of the dead money versus his salary. Back load his contract on salary to cut him in year 4 and save on the cap? Nice try...the final year salary can't exceed the the previous year by more than 30%. So...at some point you redo his contract again to get his salary under that years cap...and his dead cap goes up...again...exactly what Dallas has been doing... This dead cap thing isn't as difficult to understand as I have tried to explain it I am sure. And there are other fine details but hopefully this helps a bit. The important thing is that increasing dead cap to make cap space is bad. Incurring dead space for the true franchise players is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 This is how I thought the dead cap worked, but when I saw on the link provided above had RGIII having $17M in dead cap, I was like WHOA!!! I greatly appreciate you spelling this out like you did. I am sure it will help clear up someone else's confusion as well. Education is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johns Bass Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hail... Glad it helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philemon Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Has our cap space changed at all since March 18 when Rick last updated the OP? Didn't we re-sign Polumbus after that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 This is how I thought the dead cap worked, but when I saw on the link provided above had RGIII having $17M in dead cap, I was like WHOA!!!I greatly appreciate you spelling this out like you did. I am sure it will help clear up someone else's confusion as well. Education is important. Yep, it might have been more clear to say that its RG3 potential addition to dead cap. ---------- Post added March-26th-2013 at 01:42 PM ---------- Dead cap is what is left of a players guaranteed money after he is no longer with the team. Cut, traded, retired, ect. Right now, RG III has 17 Mil guaranteed (signing bonus money). So, if for some reason he was no longer with the team, the Redskins would take an immediate cap hit of $17 million. However, as long as he is with the team the guaranteed money is still prorated against the cap.Dead cap isn't bad for the right guys. Young players that you are going to keep like RG III and Trent. The problem comes in when a team tries to get under the cap by restructuring contracts of players to give them more bonus and less salary which is more cap friendly today but after awhile you are kinda stuck with them because you can't cut them and even if you trade them you still get hit with the dead cap. If a player is gone, the only thing that comes off the cap is non-guaranteed money - basically salary. The team is better off to restructure the contract that is incentive based which would pay the incentives off in the next year, against that years cap, if they are reached versus stretching out a multi-year contract that hits your cap for years to come. If a players salary minus their dead cap is a negative number then a team loses by getting rid of the dude because the dead cap comes into play immediately. You are really paying a a guy NOT to play for you in that instance. Santana Moss restructured his contract with the Not Likely To Be Earned Incentive way. If he reaches his incentives, he will makeup this years salary next year but it it if he is gone next year that is all that will affect next years cap - the incentives that he reaches. And if he doesn't play next year then that is only cap hit the team takes for him. On the other hand, if they gave him a three year contract with a $3 mil signing bonus but at a minimum salary this year to make up his salary cut, they would save more money against this years cap but would be looking at $2 mil dead cap that would hit next years cap if he did not play past 2013 because the signing bonus is guaranteed. In any case, NLTBE incentives are not counted against the current years cap. Conversely, Hall had a $9 mil salary but only a $300,000 dead cap. So when the Skins cut him they saw a cap relief of salary - guaranteed money; $9 mil - 300k = $8.7 mil added to this years cap. Basically, the Redskins FO is making moves that will least affect their future caps and taking their beating in 2013. It's tuff love but it is the best plan. So, where can the Skins get the most cap space this year by cutting a single player? Josh Wilson. $3.9 Mil salary - $1,333,334 dead cap. And if they wait until June 1 or declare him as a June 1 designee they can spread that dead cap over two years, which I expect they would do if it came down to it. $3.9 mil - $666,667 = $3,233,333 cap space this season with a dead cap carry over to 2014 of $666,667. Pretty livable numbers. Now, why not restructure his deal to a lower salary and a signing bonus that would reduce this years cap? Because bonuses are cumulative. So if they restructured to give him say a $8 mil signing bonus over 4 years but a $900,000 salary this year (which would escalate). He puts almost $9 mil in his pocket this year and the Redskins would save a million dollars against the cap this year but would incur a dead cap of the original bonus (1.3 mil) plus another $8 mil because of the new (guaranteed) signing bonus... a total of 9.3 mil...now they are stuck with him for probably 3 years because of the dead money versus his salary. Back load his contract on salary to cut him in year 4 and save on the cap? Nice try...the final year salary can't exceed the the previous year by more than 30%. So...at some point you redo his contract again to get his salary under that years cap...and his dead cap goes up...again...exactly what Dallas has been doing... This dead cap thing isn't as difficult to understand as I have tried to explain it I am sure. And there are other fine details but hopefully this helps a bit. The important thing is that increasing dead cap to make cap space is bad. Incurring dead space for the true franchise players is good. Looked at Josh Wilson's contract. According to most of the sources I looked at, this IS his last year. You cannot split his contribution into his non-contract years and will take his full dead this year no matter what. Since his SB allocations are already allocated to his cap utilization, if we moved him, we'd save his salary less his miscellaneous bonus if paid. The SB allocation just would move from the active bucket to the dead bucket. What you do have to account for is the cap hit from the guy who now pops into your top-51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Hail...Glad it helped. Dude, you are a cap guru. Made my head spin reading that long post. Great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Has our cap space changed at all since March 18 when Rick last updated the OP? Didn't we re-sign Polumbus after that? According to Rich Tandler, we are about 1M under the cap. Wholly unscientific I know, but it's all I have heard. There is a nice sight here --> Over the Cap. Again, there is NO date on when the figures were updated. Jason (the author) says he updates the details daily, so it should be relatively accurate. So, according to that site, the Skins have about $3M cap space. Rich Tandler says 1, Over the Cap says 3. Take your choice. For what its worth, I would NOT trust TheHogs.net Salary Cap numbers at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johns Bass Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Yep, it might have been more clear to say that its RG3 potential addition to dead cap.---------- Post added March-26th-2013 at 01:42 PM ---------- Looked at Josh Wilson's contract. According to most of the sources I looked at, this IS his last year. You cannot split his contribution into his non-contract years and will take his full dead this year no matter what. Since his SB allocations are already allocated to his cap utilization, if we moved him, we'd save his salary less his miscellaneous bonus if paid. The SB allocation just would move from the active bucket to the dead bucket. What you do have to account for is the cap hit from the guy who now pops into your top-51. I thought they could still apply to the NFL within 14 days and get the exception but it sounds like you are more on top of it than I am. Thank you for the correction. As far as the guy who pops up at 51, he goes back to 52 with the next guy who gets signed and makes the list so it is a wash. And there would be no point in doing any of this except for signing a player or players that would make the list. Also, once the season starts, everyone hits the cap - including the practice squad so money is getting tighter as the year goes on. I really believe that this is not an option that the FO wants to use and they will try to avoid it and postpone it as long as they possibly can. In the Redskins situation, $2 mil is a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I thought they could still apply to the NFL within 14 days and get the exception but it sounds like you are more on top of it than I am. Thank you for the correction.As far as the guy who pops up at 51, he goes back to 52 with the next guy who gets signed and makes the list so it is a wash. And there would be no point in doing any of this except for signing a player or players that would make the list. Also, once the season starts, everyone hits the cap - including the practice squad so money is getting tighter as the year goes on. I really believe that this is not an option that the FO wants to use and they will try to avoid it and postpone it as long as they possibly can. In the Redskins situation, $2 mil is a lot of money. I only realized it because I had thought he had one more year. As far as any net cap savings, you do have to consider the new 51st player, especially in light that he may be the new guy you sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johns Bass Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 There is an excellent site that is very current (includes Biggers contract) that shows where the contracts stand. The bottom three guys are between $510k and $540k and #52 and less are $495k & a bunch at $480k. So the effect is negligible. Provided I understand your point (sorry if I am not getting it) [url=]http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/cap-hit/[/url] Again, the idea being the Wilson wouldn't go to sign a bunch of players under the 51 because they don't count anyway. Anybody signed above just pushes the stack back down. Basically, if Wilson went away, a new #51 $495k comes up to the cap (as you said), until the next player is signed over $495k and then the above #51 $495k goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskins Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 There is an excellent site that is very current (includes Biggers contract) that shows where the contracts stand. The bottom three guys are between $510k and $540k and #52 and less are $495k & a bunch at $480k. So the effect is negligible. Provided I understand your point (sorry if I am not getting it)[url=]http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/cap-hit/[/url] Again, the idea being the Wilson wouldn't go to sign a bunch of players under the 51 because they don't count anyway. Anybody signed above just pushes the stack back down. Basically, if Wilson went away, a new #51 $495k comes up to the cap (as you said), until the next player is signed over $495k and then the above #51 $495k goes away. Interesting link. Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsince72 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 This is a great site. Check out the "dead money" amounts (at the bottom of the screen) for the teams in the NFCE. Looks like the Skins have been making good business moves. also, check out New England and Brady's contract. Funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 There is an excellent site that is very current (includes Biggers contract) that shows where the contracts stand. The bottom three guys are between $510k and $540k and #52 and less are $495k & a bunch at $480k. So the effect is negligible. Provided I understand your point (sorry if I am not getting it)[url=]http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/cap-hit/[/url] Again, the idea being the Wilson wouldn't go to sign a bunch of players under the 51 because they don't count anyway. Anybody signed above just pushes the stack back down. Basically, if Wilson went away, a new #51 $495k comes up to the cap (as you said), until the next player is signed over $495k and then the above #51 $495k goes away. It looks like the dead money section is missing some entries that are consistent on other sites, most notably, Chris Cooley's $1.8M. So, it looks like if you take the total cap value at the bottom, add the $1.8M to that value and then subtract it from $123M you get: ~ $1.56M cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 OP Updated. Added links to 3 great cap space site. Looks like we are currently about $3M under the cap as of now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geneva Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Nice job. I think we will spend most of are cap money in the draft. 4th round picks and below. look for some big WR's to check out in training camp. Should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 There has to be some reworked contracts soon. The skins are getting pretty low in cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 There has to be some reworked contracts soon. or somebody is gonna get cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Do not think cap space is over $700,000 not $3 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 the skins are living on the edge! I wonder what moves they will make to sign the draft players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.