skinsfanno9 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Say Aye! That guy sucks. He blows big chunks! He's been able to take a pro-bowl calibur line and make them play like a bunch of Rooks. It probably doesn't make sense dumping the Oline coach in the middle of the year, but Spurrer in the post game conference even indicated the reporters should ask him for an explanation. The day after the season ends, he's gone I hope...:hammer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 helton isn't out there moving before the ball is snapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Countdown to ASF's post in 5 - 4 - 3 - . . . I will say this: there's obviously a systemic problem. It's not a viral problem, there's simply some kind of adjustment(s) that need to be made to ensure that the skill position players are on the same page as the linemen, especially with crowd noise. Our linemen didn't simply become retarded at the same time. There's something wrong with the scheme and the routine, and it needs adjustment. To have an offense that can't call an audible, or even simply stay onsides is not too much to ask. They need to fix it fast, because you certainly aren't going to even out that 50-23 pass-run disparity when you're starting out 1-15 all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Honestly, it is too early to tell. I don't want to come off sounding bland, but the verdict is not totally out on whether the Offense is truly locked into this scheme yet. For all we know they still have a lot to learn and get comfortable with before they are in their prime. I'd say by Week 8, there NEEDS to be significant improvement in the O-line deparment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidPennSkin Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Too bad Russ Grimm isn't available. He's doing a good job with the Steelers. http://www.steelergridiron.com/information/bios/grimm.html Schottenheimer really screwed us when he dumped Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Sounds like skinsfanno9 has been playing with his ouji board and has managed to channel ASF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 ive got an idea... how about instead of bringing refs to practices u just have guys with tasers walking up and down the line keeping everyone in check. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 These OL problems with false start and offsides penalties are perplexing to say the least. You can blame the OL players because, hey afterall, it worked with college players under SOS. One would think that highly paid veteran OL players would get it by now, especially Jansen and Samuels in their second season w/ SOS. You can also suspect the coaching and/or system. Is there too much use of the audible?Does Helton just suck as a teacher and authority figure that he can't get these guys to execute? I really think it's a combination of the two. Helton is clearly a failure because it's not just one guy causing stupid penalties, it's most of the OL - Samuels, Jansen, Dockery, Moore.... I don't believe that there is a core systemic failure - it's worked in the past very successfullly. The players need to execute as well. Ramsey needs to be more judicious with the use of audibles - sometimes you just need to get the damn play off. You defintely can't let Samuels & Co. off the hook - watch the damn ball if you can't hear, dumbasses! SOS better figure it out real quick or we're all in for a long and ugly season of losing very close games as a result of stupid and amateurish penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Has anyone noticed that Thomas, the relative new comer, has about 75% less offsides penalties as the rest of the group? In fact, Fiore hasn't jumped much. Now.... I know that they are next to the center and can see the ball snap..... and the tackles are out on the end with much more difficult jobs.... but it's something to think about. Additionally, and I'm half serious here, but might there be audible phrases that are similar to "HUT"? LOL!!!!! Is Ramsey shouting... "BUT......CUT........NUT........ WHAT.......... SLUT......... ". That's the true question, if the men aren't supposed to go until they hear HUT on the right snap count..... why on earth are they flinching and moving while Ramsey is audibling to the receivers and backs? It makes no sense..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RySkins Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I don't profess to know how much of the poor OL play comes down to coaching, but when nearly every player, most of whom are hiting their prime, is playing the worst football of their careers, something is wrong. Mike Stock is still the worst coach on our staff, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I don't think Helton is the problem. After all Helton has about 20 years NFL offensive line coaching experience. I think the problem is with the players -- mainly Samuels and Jansen -- and with Spurrier's audible system. The opposing defenses are dictating to SS's system and not the other way around. Even when the Skins execute and get off an audibled play, the play doesn't seem to be that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 We should do one game with no audibles and see how it turns out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Sack Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Equality We should do one game with no audibles and see how it turns out AMEN! Just play ball for Christ's sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long n Left Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 is it the players? Is it the coaching? Well, considering this has been a problem for the entire season, and they say they're working on it in practice, then I've got to believe that coaching takes the brunt of the burden. If you're working on something through the week, and the players aren't gettin it, then you're just not teaching what you want to accomplish properly. Just because a guy has been around for a long time does not make him a good coach. Coaches must be flexible and continue to update, and tweak their systems to stay ahead of the curve. This is what the truly good coaches do. I personally think that Helton's job should be on the line if the play of his unit does not improve, and soon. Not only are the penalties a thorn, but their were numerous missed assignments yesterday that led to PR getting clobbered way too often. Also, make sure there is space in that cab outta town for Stock. Our coverage and return teams continue to be among the worst in football. Maybe Stock can pack Barker in his bag to take with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Yeah, but you can only get rid of Helton if you take Stock and Bryan Barker too. This is a 3 for 1 package deal. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Aye. And ditto on Mike Stock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Heltons and S Doubles fault and yeah to canning helton. However when sonny, gary clark and company were on tv last week saying the best counter to the blitz is max protect with 3 guys going out in patterns should be our base passing offense how hard can it be to adapt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rej55 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Is Joe Bugel available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADF Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I think the audibles are taking too long. The backs don't seem to be able to hear Patrick. The backs are moving up to see what the change is, Patrick is moving around trying to get the WRs straight, and the defenders are flinching at our OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 also the OL doesn't try to play it off. they just automatically stand up and start walking away instead of firing off the ball as if they encoached or just waiting until the ball is really snapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPare Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Out of interest, Grimm decided to leave when Spurrier came in, and asked him to interview to keep his position. He was actually still around for the Marty year. There are 3 things that indicate to me that this is a coaching problem: 1. The level of talent on the line is well above average for the league, and the performance is below average 2. The breakdowns are not isolated to 1 or 2 players 3. The problem continues to happen week after week. Maybe the problem is not with Helton, it's with the offence in general. But then, we don't see the same problem with the receivers and backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by SPare Out of interest, Grimm decided to leave when Spurrier came in, and asked him to interview to keep his position. He was actually still around for the Marty year. Not so. From MidPennSkin's link, above:Russ Grimm is in his second season as the Steelers offensive line coach. Grimm, 43, joined the Steelers Jan. 10, 2000 as only the second offensive line coach in Bill Cowher's 10 seasons and was instrumental in developing one of the most-improved areas on the team in 2001. Grimm spent the previous 19 years as a player and a coach with the Washington Redskins. In 2001, Grimm was credited with molding the offensive front that produced the number-one ranked rushing offense and another 1,000-yard season for running back Jerome Bettis. . . I think they got the year of hire wrong. It was Jan 2001 - not 2000 - when Marty was hired, that Grimm signed on with the Stillers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPare Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 OK Redman, refresh my memory. Who was the O-line coach for Marty? not facetious, just wondering, cuz I could have sworn that Shotty kept Grimm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 The reason I think Helton is a big part of it is because this problem is an epidemic over two seasons and maybe 12 players. Last year, we gave them a pass saying the guards were poor... weak. This year, some are saying it's audibles. There is something wrong. Jansen and Samuels have regressed. Thomas is the only o linemen without a false start. The protection has been mediocre and hasn't been great in the run game either. When we have to run we struggle. If no one can succeed in a system... it's the system or the teaching. On top of this, haven't we played multiple games this year with opponents starting two or three rookies? They haven't had these problems? It's us. It's motivation, concentration, system, coaching. Maybe all of them. I don't think it's talent. BTW, Marty did fire Grimm, I don't remember who coached for him, but I remember him getting rid of Grimm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinjoe Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Ditto on the Helton and Stock issue. I don't know if these two guys were with SS in college but they are severely lacking. Listening to sports radio in DC on the way back from the Pats game Jacoby stated that Samuels is moving his outside foot to far back after the snap which gives defenders a shorter route to the QB. That's pretty bad when someone can see something that simple after four games. Makes you wonder what else is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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