Koolblue13 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 That was a wonderful way to take an unnecessary shot at Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I'm going to be more like you Jumbo and probably even more than that... I noticed your posts count becomes considerably less when it gets crazy around here. Smart man. As someone fond of you as an ES'er, I hope you will not use me as a role model. I stand at the end of a long line of questionable choices. But yes, I drop off at strategic times. For me, it's a marathon and not a sprint, and I have enough obligation to practice tolerance and find as much genuine positive regard for others as possible in my professional life that I try not to over-strain on the interwebz. Share another little trick with ya...no matter what "tone" I post in, I rarely (if ever) bring much personal emotional investment (or ego/self-identity needs) into my posting on most "arguments" on typical topics. I am generally quite unconcerned with convincing or persuading anyone of anything. There are other motives/reasons for posting that wear far less on health and stability. ---------- Post added November-23rd-2012 at 10:33 AM ---------- That was a wonderful way to take an unnecessary shot at Snyder. Go back to the island bar, Kool, amigo. :pfft: You missed the boat here completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Totally with ya, Jumbo. That's pretty much what I was trying to get across, however lacking in eloquence in comparison to your phrasing it. :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 That was a wonderful way to take an unnecessary shot at Snyder.The shot was necessary in order to have readers understand the position I take as a basis for the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 My God how I wish we got to see this team without the cap penalty in place. This is one of the single biggest incidents in a many-decades-long history. Even with just average results in selections made, having kept that amount to throw at players would have been so huge...look at what's been done with the talent level we have...imagine what might have been, even for a first year with Rg3...and what it likely would have meant for the 2nd year...and the 3rd...sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 This is one of the single biggest incidents in a many-decades-long history. Even with just average results in selections made, having kept that amount to throw at players would have been so huge...look at what's been done with the talent level we have...imagine what might have been, even for a first year with Rg3...and what it likely would have meant for the 2nd year...and the 3rd...sigh *Sniffle* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The shot was necessary in order to have readers understand the position I take as a basis for the argument. You could explain it a dozen times, and someone is going to still come in, not read beyond the OP and "go there." The sadder thing is you shouldn't even need to know anything about the poster to get why what was included in the OP. It's an internet sports message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The shot was necessary in order to have readers understand the position I take as a basis for the argument. Outside of Marty, I don't think Snyder has fired a coach who didn't deserve it. He also seems to have stayed out of front office decisions and is allowing the decisions to be made the professionals in place. We're not in the best spot with talent right now, but in another 2 years, this team could be unstoppable. I did read what you wrote, I just don't see the connection to Snyder, being anything other than an old habit. Jumbo, I don't get too far from the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 You could explain it a dozen times, and someone is going to still come in, not read beyond the OP and "go there." The sadder thing is you shouldn't even need to know anything about the poster to get why what was included in the OP. It's an internet sports message board. I waver on the reason. Is it more a question of poor reading comprehension or are they being argumentative, simply reading unreasonable interpretations into a post so that they can be critical? It's probably both, but which is the dominant factor in your opinion?---------- Post added November-23rd-2012 at 01:51 PM ---------- Outside of Marty, I don't think Snyder has fired a coach who didn't deserve it. He also seems to have stayed out of front office decisions and is allowing the decisions to be made the professionals in place. In my opinion, Dan Snyder has never hired a coach capable of building and maintaining the number one team in the NFL and that, very definitely, includes Marty and Mike. Thus my comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I understand your point. I like Mike and the team in place. I worry about a DC, but I doubt that falls on Snyder. I was always a Marty fan. Shanny has been involved with the number one team in the NFL a few times in his career. I am confident he will be again soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Jumbo, I don't get too far from the bar. We are brothers in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 I understand your point. I like Mike and the team in place. I worry about a DC, but I doubt that falls on Snyder. I was always a Marty fan.Shanny has been involved with the number one team in the NFL a few times in his career. I am confident he will be again soon. I grade Mike on the teams he built after acquiring full control in 1999 because that's what he has here. His Super Bowl wins happened as a coach with a roster put together by others --including a good veteran defense.I didn't want Marty here either. I figured conservative Martyball was unlikely to win Super Bowls. Marty never won one in his long career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I waver on the reason. Is it more a question of poor reading comprehension or are they being argumentative, simply reading unreasonable interpretations into a post so that they can be critical? It's probably both, but which is the dominant factor in your opinion? Yes, both, but more the comprehension, and not as a result of limited basic cognitive ability in the large majority of cases, but born more of "lazy" and reactionary factors---the latter being due to preexisting bias/attitudes on poster/topic. But there more to "it" than just that, and it applies to most "opinionating" in general. But I won't turn this into a psychological treatise. :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 ....but born more of "lazy" and reactionary factors---the latter being due to preexisting bias/attitudes on poster/topic. Don't you wish everyone could rid themselves of those biases like you and me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Shanahan needs to stay for the next 2 years, absolutely, if for no other reason than this: His biggest/best talent is drafting offensive players, and thanks to the RG3 trade we have no first rounders for the next 2 years. I'm not such a big fan of Shanny the coach, though I think adding his son in as OC is a big plus, nor am I overly impressed with his vision as GM - drafting well is one thing, but like Holmgren his skill lies almost entirely on the offensive side of the ball, and he fails to find good value in FA for defensive players. Shanny is, however, among the elite at finding mid to late rounds gems...Terrell Davis, Brandon Marshall, Alfred Morris, just to name a few. Although it will never happen, the ideal scenario would be for Shanahan to fulfill his contract, the Skins to hire a real GM (not just a title for a de facto Dir of Operations that Bruce Allen is), and let that GM hire a brilliant up and coming defensive minded coach - someone to build up the other side of the roster and playbook. Unfortunately, you can be certain Snyder will continue in the same pattern he's taken since buying the team - hiring an unproven offensive coach in hopes of finding the next Joe Gibbs, subsequently undermining him, then hiring a known name and handing over complete control to deflect criticism....at which point all the fans will revert to saying "this time he's finally learning..." Seriously, this has been the modus operandi since this millenium began. Hire Robiskie, everybody screams when the team collapses so.... Hire Schottenheimer and give him complete control of coaching and personnel. "Danny has learned his lesson, he's letting a football guy run things" Hire Spurrier, then blow off Beathard who was supposed to sign on to build a team for him. Vinny continues Schot's work of ruining roster so... Hire Gibbs and give him complete control of coaching and personnel. "Danny has learned his lesson, he's letting a football guy run things" Hire Zorn. Vinny continues ruining a roster that Gibbs left aging and in the hands of a young but useless QB. Fans riot, so.... Hire Shanahan and give him complete control of coaching and personnel. Oh, and give George Allen's cap guru son a big title, since that was what Shanahan asked for anyways. "Danny has learned his lesson, he's letting football guys run things." Anyone care to guess what Snyder is gonna do in 2015?.... I'll give you a hint, he'll probably be the offensive coordinator for either Green Bay or the Saints when the time comes, and he'll last 2 years tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Don't you wish everyone could rid themselves of those biases like you and me? As I age, my reflexes may slow a bit, but I can still draw a bias fast enough to make your head spin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I liked Shanny as a hire but I've generally been on board with all hires initially. I go back and forth on it now. For him to maximize RG III's talent -- 2 things IMO he still needs to get done: 1. Finally find a RT 2. Ensure he has enough playmakers but the defense to me is the be all and end all for him -- shanny says this is a top 5 defense without the injuries my thoughts on that are twofold 1. I hope he doesn't mean it because IMO this defense isn't anywhere close to being an elite defense if healthy so they need to add some players 2. Am tired of injury excuses from him -- we all know really no team in the NFL gets through the year without injuries. Maybe next year Orkapo is healthy but lets say Kerrigan gets hurt, you can't anticipate everyone being healthy that's why depth is so important But to your point, i do think specifically for RG III, its better to keep Shanny for both his offensive mind and for continuity sake. But for me personally, I want at least an average defense next year, if the defense stinks again then there is so much slack am going to give him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emor09 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 We saw how big of an impact Merriweather had in a half. Imagine having two competent safeties (Merriweather and Jackson) all season. We'd be 8-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailToTheRedskins14 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 How many coaches ARE capable of building and maintaining the #1 team in the NFL? Belicik is about the only one, and when's the last time he won a Superbowl? I mean...what do yall want? I didn't know enough about Shanahan to feel either way about the hire. I was just glad Cerrato was gone (and Zorn). Shanahan has had a couple mistakes (McNabb) here and there, but overall I've loved everything he's done here. In Shanahan I Trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Nailed it perfectly. You absolutely cannot fire Mike Shanahan, or if you must, you must hire someone running a similar offense, or promote Kyle to HC. No, Shanny will never nail every draft pick or build a #1 team on both sides of the ball. We'll probably never have an elite defense like what the Niners or Texans enjoy. But we can certainly build an absolutely unstoppable offense that can win a Super Bowl or two. Kyle isn't ready to be a HC. I'd freak out with him at the helm. It's my opinion too that Mike needs to remain HC because of RGIII. He needs years more here to get the kind of stability RGIII needs to become the player he should. Mike McCarthy and the Green Bay GM are not Bill Belichick or even Sean Payton caliber yet you'd never think of firing them. They've got talent deficiencies too. Yeah, Mike as the personnel man isn't necessarily ideal. He saves his butt by being able to expertly draft his offensive scheme and get great value and impact talent out of players no other team valued. He's also conservative in FA so as not to sink us there. That's good enough to build a playoff team when you went out and got the most talented LT and QB in the NFL. Offense wins in the regular season and then when you get to the playoffs regularly, anything can happen. Manning and Rodgers got rings with shaky surrounding talent. Brees did too. Those defenses were not that good but they could catch lightning in a bottle and come up with big plays enough and their brilliant offenses gave them a huge margin for error. We're building a similar dynamic. Won't be a dynasty but it'll be good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I think the thread was going well but then abruptly ended in a negative doomsday comment that frankly doesn't make sense to me and seems born out of dislike instead of rationality. This sentence really speaks volumes about the tone of many discussions here. I think many would rather be right in their opinions, than give credit where it is due. When I criticize, NOTHING MAKES ME HAPPIER than to be proven wrong about some negative view or attitude I might have about the team or an individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 How many coaches ARE capable of building and maintaining the #1 team in the NFL? Belicik is about the only one, and when's the last time he won a Superbowl?I mean...what do yall want?... As I said, I'd like the be the #1 team in the NFL, but I'm willing to settle for not screwing up Robert's career. Isn't that reasonable enough for you?---------- Post added November-23rd-2012 at 05:56 PM ---------- This sentence really speaks volumes about the tone of many discussions here. I think many would rather be right in their opinions, than give credit where it is due. When I criticize, NOTHING MAKES ME HAPPIER than to be proven wrong about some negative view or attitude I might have about the team or an individual.I make it a point to stay out of threads where some of you homers want to get together and agree that you are superior Redskins fans. Please return the favor and stay out of mine. Either that or try harder to keep your ego in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Oldfan, I completely agree with your post, just have one question. Why do you not think we'll become the number one team with Snyder as the owner? Had he still been tromping around and leading a circus like he was with Vinny, it would be an obvious answer. However, he has taken a hands-off approach and let Shanahan and Allen do their thing, which (now that we have RG3) seems to be working. If he continues on this path and allows the personnel guys to do their job and give Robert the talent he deserves to have around him, I have no doubt we will become a dominant team. I'm assuming by "number one team" you mean a run of Patriot-like dominance (10-15 years of winning the division, adding to our Lombardi total two or three times at least) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I make it a point to stay out of threads where some of you homers want to get together and agree that you are superior Redskins fans. Please return the favor and stay out of mine. I guess I struck a chord with that one. Check my posting history. I am no blind homer, it's just for me the team wining is more important than being correct. If that makes me a homer and a "superior Redskins fan" So be it. As for me, I'll post where I damn well please thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 ...But to your point, i do think specifically for RG III, its better to keep Shanny for both his offensive mind and for continuity sake. But for me personally, I want at least an average defense next year, if the defense stinks again then there is so much slack am going to give him.I don't know much about Rick Dennison. Kyle would maintain continuity with the scheme. But as Stevie wrote, it's hard to see him as ready for more responsibility. So, the options are limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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