Yahoo News (AP): Congressman calls evolution lie from 'pit of hell'

[scruffylookin]

Boy this guy is what I hate, and yes HATE is not strong enough a word for what i feel about these people and the knuckle draggers who elect them, and what is wrong with this country.

A bible thumping politician who gets off on killing other life ("sportsman" my ass) who sits on a panel deciding my future and future of our country.

We need to get rid of this kind of person in our government or we will continue to be not only a laughingstock but far worse, the main obstacle in moving our country and world forward.

[mistertim]

I did find this---it's kind of fun, and the music is swell.

That choice of music is...fascinating. It segues from beginning as the score for an action movie trailer (as written by Hanz Zimmer's much less talented and much more intoxicated brother) to the score for a "being hunted while running through the jungle" or "fast paced bank robbery" scene (as written by Hanz Zimmer's much less talented and much more intoxicated brother)...all while an old guy stands around and talks in a boring monotone to the camera. My brain is attempting to reboot now. Please stand by.

[Koolblue13]

Anybody who shoots and stuffs a bear, puts it in their office and then brags about it, is an *******.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Eventually we'll get around to disproving the rest of it too.

Considering literal 7 day creation isn't what the Bible teaches it isn't a matter of disproving the Bible. :pfft:

You don't get to pick and chose who is in your group any more than the Muslims do and look how we've been treating that group of people, based on the actions of a small handful.

You sure as heck do, where is the rule that says I have to remain associated with some idiot who doesn't know what he's talking anout when it comes to the Christian faith, or that I have to remain connected at the hip with Klnasmen who would pervert my faith to justify their hate? Sorry, but fail you did.

I think believing in religion is crazy and this guy isn't to far off from what you probably think, in regards to my opinion. fwiw

Been down this road before, but crazy is not a matter of opinion, crazy is divergence from the norm, and the norm is theism.

[Koolblue13]

Just because you speak like Yoda, although a strong and admirable move, doesn't mean it's not crazy.

From the inside looking out, I'm sure you'd like to remove yourself from extremists like this guy, but from my seat, it's just different ramblings from the same group.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Just because you speak like Yoda, although a strong and admirable move, doesn't mean it's not crazy.

crazy as determined by whom? A minority group who says that 90% of the world is wrong? Really?

From the inside looking out, I'm sure you'd like to remove yourself from extremists like this guy, but from my seat, it's just different ramblings from the same group.

Only because you haven't bothered to see and understand what differentiates the groups. By your logic a new convert who goes out speaking and acting like his old self should then speak or all, and that's absurd.

[Koolblue13]

crazy as determined by whom? A minority group who says that 90% of the world is wrong? Really?

Only because you haven't bothered to see and understand what differentiates the groups. By your logic a new convert who goes out speaking and acting like his old self should then speak or all, and that's absurd.

My opinion is the believing in religion is crazy. Your opinion is the religion is real. It's all opinion, that we chose to believe. Opinion is what it is.

[AsburySkinsFan]

My opinion is the believing in religion is crazy. Your opinion is the religion is real. It's all opinion, that we chose to believe. Opinion is what it is.

Your opinion is in the vast minority and proposes that 90% of the world is nuts. This isn't a matter of opinion like which is better vanilla or chocolate, you honestly believe that 90% of the world's population is crazy, or too stupid to get out of it's own way, or can't cope with reality. And you call us arrogant.

[Koolblue13]

Your opinion is in the vast minority and proposes that 90% of the world is nuts. This isn't a matter of opinion like which is better vanilla or chocolate, you honestly believe that 90% of the world's population is crazy, or too stupid to get out of it's own way, or can't cope with reality. And you call us arrogant.

80% of the world lives on less than $10 a day also. Think their education is up to par?

What's the percentage of people in modern countries who believe compared to the poorest countries?

Where are you getting your 90%? Here is an article from the Christian Post that says 51% of the world believe in some kind of God.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/49994/

[Burgold]

I believe that there is an infinite number of things that we as humans don't know and simultaneously there is almost nothing that we know absolutely. That said, I find it distressing when we run away from facts and believe denial is good discourse.

If you don't want to believe in evolution or geology, or something else... it should be replaced with something with equal weight and not ephemeral hope.

It seems extremely unlikely that the Earth is only 9,000 years old, there's far too much evidence in that contradict it. Now, it is conceivable that carbon dating and other methods we use to date objects are inaccurate. It's not impossible that the world is 9,000 years old, but it's really, really unlikely.

What's worse is that if we accept that the world is 9,000 years old don't we have to accept that the world is flat? There's a reason we were given reason and curiousity... and it wasn't that we needed a test to prove our blind stubborn loyalty to doctrine.

At least, I hope not.

[thebluefood]

My opinion is the believing in religion is crazy. Your opinion is the religion is real. It's all opinion, that we chose to believe. Opinion is what it is.

So, just so I'm clear:

All mad men.

[Koolblue13]

So, should I now post pictures of religious lunatics from the last few hundred years thebluefood? What's your point?

[mistertim]

crazy as determined by whom? A minority group who says that 90% of the world is wrong? Really?

To be fair, at various points throughout human history there have been very large majorities of populations who believed something that most people nowadays see as obviously absurd. So your apparent assertion that just because most people believe something it is correct doesn't have much logical or historical support. On the other hand I wouldn't label people who have certain religious beliefs as "crazy", as in actually psychotic, even if I disagree with them (certain exceptions apply of course).

[Koolblue13]

Alright, maybe crazy isn't the right word. If somebody told you they just rode a unicorn to battle a dragon, what would you call the person who believed them?

And popularity doesn't dictate anything, anytime. If fact, I'd say it's usually the opposite.

[mistertim]

If somebody told you they just rode a unicorn to battle a dragon, what would you call the person who believed them?

"Awesome"

[Koolblue13]

"Awesome"

Yeah, I guess you're right

[alexey]

Alright, maybe crazy isn't the right word. If somebody told you they just rode a unicorn to battle a dragon, what would you call the person who believed them?

And popularity doesn't dictate anything, anytime. If fact, I'd say it's usually the opposite.

It is not crazy to say that you believe what majority of people say they believe.

For most of history, actually, going against the majority on this subject would have been crazy and suicidal.

[AsburySkinsFan]

80% of the world lives on less than $10 a day also. Think their education is up to par?

So education will set you free? Right because how much you make has any bearing on one's belief in the almighty.

What's the percentage of people in modern countries who believe compared to the poorest countries?

So you're comparing modern secular states with poor nations...apples and oranges my friend.

Where are you getting your 90%? Here is an article from the Christian Post that says 51% of the world believe in some kind of God.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/49994/

The 90% was rhetorical. Per the article 18% are atheists another 17% don't know...that still leaves you well in the minority, and most the 18% come from European secular nations.

---------- Post added October-7th-2012 at 10:23 AM ----------

So, should I now post pictures of religious lunatics from the last few hundred years thebluefood? What's your point?

Only if we get to post pictures of the athiest mass murderers who killed more people in a decade than all of the holy wars combined....sure go right ahead.

---------- Post added October-7th-2012 at 10:34 AM ----------

Alright, maybe crazy isn't the right word. If somebody told you they just rode a unicorn to battle a dragon, what would you call the person who believed them?

No, I don't believe in dragons or unicorns. But isn't it interesting that you go straight for something which would by all rights be fairly easy to prove...i.e. a photo of a dragon and a unicorn on a cell phone should be relatively easy to produce. Yet, that's not what we're talking about here is it?

And popularity doesn't dictate anything, anytime. If fact, I'd say it's usually the opposite.

Not popularity that makes it sound arbitrary (again chocolate/vanilla), but if we say that 82% of people (subtracting atheists) have some inclination about a higher being, whether through teaching or personal experience that should be taken into account. Especially considering that the rules by which you determine reality are so narrowly focused as to exclude anything you cannot prove by your rules. Which as we've established in other topics is not how people actually live, because people don't live their lives in doubt and skepticism although you probably think they should.

[Koolblue13]

Being an Atheist doesn't include you in a subculture the way being in a particular religion does.

Everybody is part of one group, humans. Some people have decided to include themselves in a smaller sect of our global society, in this case religious groups. I haven't included myself in Atheism, I just don't partake.

---------- Post added October-7th-2012 at 10:36 AM ----------

It is not crazy to say that you believe what majority of people say they believe.

For most of history, actually, going against the majority on this subject would have been crazy and suicidal.

So, in a post that I say crazy isn't the right word, you chose to correct my use of the word crazy?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Being an Atheist doesn't include you in a subculture the way being in a particular religion does.

Everybody is part of one group, humans. Some people have decided to include themselves in a smaller sect of our global society, in this case religious groups. I haven't included myself in Atheism, I just don't partake.

I'll answer you with....you....

You don't get to pick and chose who is in your group any more than the Muslims do and look how we've been treating that group of people, based on the actions of a small handful.

[Koolblue13]

I'll answer you with....you....

By pointing out that I said I was an American citizen?

[Jumbo]

Ok group, time out! :pfft:

<edit> where is the rule that says I have to remain associated with some idiot who doesn't know what he's talking anout when it comes to the Christian faith, or that I have to remain connected at the hip with Klnasmen who would pervert my faith to justify their hate? <edit>

There is no such rule, and in my book (no, not The Book of Jumbo) you don't get associated with them in any substantive sense (being very particular with wording---otherwise, speaking more casually, I would leave out "substantive"). You are as different from that guy as I am from a psychiatrist who believes he can cure "the ghey."

Been down this road before, but crazy is not a matter of opinion, crazy is divergence from the norm, and the norm is theism.

I do have to fuss with you there, but not going into detail (don't think it's needed), nor saying "the norm" is not a component in determining sanity.

Just because you speak like Yoda, although a strong and admirable move, doesn't mean it's not crazy.

From the inside looking out, I'm sure you'd like to remove yourself from extremists like this guy, but from my seat, it's just different ramblings from the same group.

Understood, and it's a valid comment. I'm not as extreme in this grouping choice you make, nor do I think it's either accurate or productive. But I understand how an intelligent (or not) person can "get there."

crazy as determined by whom? A minority group who says that 90% of the world is wrong? Really?

I'll just say that Christians were once (speaking figuratively---no pun intended :pfft:) the 10% who were essentially saying 90% of the world was wrong. Now they're only saying 67% are wrong. (playing ). I only add this cuz I resist attaching right/wrong or even crazy/sane too much to majority/minority.

Only because you haven't bothered to see and understand what differentiates the groups. By your logic a new convert who goes out speaking and acting like his old self should then speak or all, and that's absurd.

I also appreciate that there are teachings and understandings from various individuals and within various denominations of Christianity that allow for the that faith to be properly upheld without the kind of nonsense spewed by the representative featured in the OP. And I happen to think that's VERY important. Go "you guys"!

I believe that there is an infinite number of things that we as humans don't know and simultaneously there is almost nothing that we know absolutely. That said, I find it distressing when we run away from facts and believe denial is good discourse.

If you don't want to believe in evolution or geology, or something else... it should be replaced with something with equal weight and not ephemeral hope.<edit>

Just quoted you Burg to thank you for bringing it back more to the OP (and I do mainly agree).

So, should I now post pictures of religious lunatics from the last few hundred years thebluefood? What's your point?

No, don't post pics.

Now I read the rest of the posts to see where we are in the thread, and have this to politely add: it is usually (almost inevitable) that any remotely similar thread will include or become absorbed by the basic pro/anti religion at large theme. In this instance, I think the initial plunge has been allowed to carry on enough to make it clear that the two main tangos here and now (amigos KB13 & ASF) are basically on record for this thread on that angle to a sufficient degree. IOW, some OT tangents are expected, normal, and accepted in this topic (and most others) up to a point and on this one we reached it. :cool:

So let's move back to more about such extremists (or wingnut types) in the demographic, or this guy in particular, in our political system or society at large to an extent.

If there's no more interest related more closely to actual OP stuff, then let the thread die. I didn't expect it to have legs (which is fine and not that my expectations matter even if I had), I just wanted to bring it to your guys' attention as I will usually do in such cases.

[alexey]

Not popularity that makes it sound arbitrary (again chocolate/vanilla), but if we say that 82% of people (subtracting atheists) have some inclination about a higher being, whether through teaching or personal experience that should be taken into account. Especially considering that the rules by which you determine reality are so narrowly focused as to exclude anything you cannot prove by your rules. Which as we've established in other topics is not how people actually live, because people don't live their lives in doubt and skepticism although you probably think they should.

Everybody has an ability to have transcendental experiences and to feel that there is "something more". Interpretations of these experiences are culture-specific, so it is not accurate to extrapolate your cultural interpretation about a "higher being" onto other people and other cultures.

As for people living their lives... Having skepticism and doubt about belief systems is very different from living a life in a way that is full of skepticism and doubt. Religious monopoly on wonder and amazement is similar to religious monopoly on morality.

[Koolblue13]

In a time that we are watching people champion politicians for their style and what they say, even if it completely disregards any actual fact or bases to reality, is it really surprising that a Congressman like Dr. Braun, would be falling back on religion to prove his science?

Is that better Boss?

[Jumbo]

In a time that we are watching people champion politicians for their style and what they say, even if it completely disregards any actual fact or bases to reality, is it really surprising that a Congressman like Dr. Braun, would be falling back on religion to prove his science?

Is that better Boss?

I love it when we don't have a failure to communicate. :cool: