Kilmer17 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 You shouldn't have to pay for that right either. In fact, I would think conservatives would be outraged by this fee/tax. Yet we do. We pay for lots of things that we accept as "rights". Like other "rights", the right to vote, is not without limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I answered your question as well as pointed out the lefts constant hypocrisy. What hypocrisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Yet we do.We pay for lots of things that we accept as "rights". Like other "rights", the right to vote, is not without limits. The right to vote in federal elections is absolutely without financial limits. You cannot make people pay to vote. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Yet we do.We pay for lots of things that we accept as "rights". Like other "rights", the right to vote, is not without limits. I love it. Conservatives defending having to pay for rights spelled out by the Bill of Rights. This is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 What hypocrisy? Taxes are okay in some cases, but apparently not in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The right to vote in federal elections is absolutely without financial limits. You cannot make people pay to vote. Period. To follow up on your point for our friends here: Amendment 24 Abolition of poll taxes Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. ---------- Post added July-9th-2012 at 02:52 PM ---------- Taxes are okay in some cases, but apparently not in this case. Read the Bill of Rights please and specifically the amendments after the original 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I love it. Conservatives defending having to pay for rights spelled out by the Bill of Rights. This is great. You seem to love lots of things. I would LOVE for you to show me where the right to vote is spelled out in the Bill of Rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 You seem to love lots of things.I would LOVE for you to show me where the right to vote is spelled out in the Bill of Rights. Maybe not in the Bill of Rights, but it is cemented right in the Constitution. Wedged in there between Amendment 23 and 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 You seem to love lots of things.I would LOVE for you to show me where the right to vote is spelled out in the Bill of Rights. The later amendments:15, 19, 24 and 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Wow. I'm definitely no fan of big brother and such, but I really don't see the big deal with this. What's so hard about showing a photo ID? It seems like it's pretty much a must these days to have one. Clubs and bars require it, why not voting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Maybe not in the Bill of Rights, but it is cemented right in the Constitution. Wedged in there between Amendment 23 and 25. I have the right to bear arms, yet the state of florida requires me to have a license to do so. And that costs money. I have the right to free speech and assembly, but it is not limitless. ---------- Post added July-9th-2012 at 11:00 AM ---------- Wow. I'm definitely no fan of big brother and such, but I really don't see the big deal with this. What's so hard about showing a photo ID? It seems like it's pretty much a must these days to have one. Clubs and bars require it, why not voting? It's not a big deal. The left is making it a big deal because it lets them scare seniors and minorities into think the GOP is out to harm them. It's a political tactic. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Wow. I'm definitely no fan of big brother and such, but I really don't see the big deal with this. What's so hard about showing a photo ID? It seems like it's pretty much a must these days to have one. Clubs and bars require it, why not voting? Going into a club or bar is a privilege, not a right guaranteed by our Constitution. As I said before, I'm not opposed to showing an ID or for that matter the voter registration card they send you, but then the governments should spare no expense to make sure every eligible voter has the necessary ID. I'm also against the limiting of ID cards such as not allowing a college student to use their college ID to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I have the right to bear arms, yet the state of florida requires me to have a license to do so. And that costs money.I have the right to free speech and assembly, but it is not limitless. The difference is that there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that strictly forbids states or the feds from requiring you to pay for a gun license. The Constitution DOES, however, strictly forbid having to pay to vote in federal elections. This is not rocket surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I have the right to bear arms, yet the state of florida requires me to have a license to do so. And that costs money.I have the right to free speech and assembly, but it is not limitless. ---------- Post added July-9th-2012 at 11:00 AM ---------- It's not a big deal. The left is making it a big deal because it lets them scare seniors and minorities into think the GOP is out to harm them. It's a political tactic. Nothing more. Again, it's spelled out that there will be no poll tax and having to pay to vote constitutes a poll tax. Voter fraud isn't a big deal cause it almost never happens. The Right is making it a big deal because it lets them scare their base into thinking that the Dems are out to harm them. It's a political tactic. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanSoMD Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I don't understand how people survive without a photo ID. Do they carry their birth certificate or SS card around with them? I'm pretty sure mine stay locked in a fire-proof safe and I just carry my license at all times. Also every job I have ever applied to requires some form of photo ID along with my birth certificate AND SS #. These jobs included working at Nationals games and an internship with Customs and Border Protection. The guy talking about we shouldn't have to pay for an ID because we have the right to vote... What about we have the right to freedom of speech yet we are required to follow guidelines as to what we can say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The difference is that there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that strictly forbids states or the feds from requiring you to pay for a gun license. The Constitution DOES, however, strictly forbid having to pay to vote in federal elections. This is not rocket surgery. But you're not paying to vote. You're paying for an ID card which can be used in many other situations. I guess I'm just stumped on how anyone this day and age doesn't have an ID. It almost sounds to me that some who are upset are just playing politics or worried that illegals won't be able to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Kilmer, why would Homeland Security refuse to provide names of known non-citizens on the voting rolls? I can't think of a reason why, genuinely curious. Is it a Privacy Act thing? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 But you're not paying to vote. You're paying for an ID card which can be used in many other situations. I guess I'm just stumped on how anyone this day and age doesn't have an ID. It almost sounds to me that some who are upset are just playing politics or are worried that illegals won't be able to vote. I think it would be relatively easy to make the case to the courts that it is equal to a type of poll tax. You are still forcing people to pay for something in order to vote in a federal election. Maybe one of our lawyer friends can jump in here if I am way off base on that and give us their thoughts as to how they think that sort of argument would go down before the courts. EDIT: As to the second part...first of all, it doesn't matter if that stumps you or you don't like it or you think it is weird. It is in the Constitution and it is illegal to make people pay in any way to vote in a federal election. Secondly, the whole "some people are worried that illegals won't be able to vote" thing is just a silly straw man and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The guy talking about we shouldn't have to pay for an ID because we have the right to vote... What about we have the right to freedom of speech yet we are required to follow guidelines as to what we can say? Seriously people, read the constitution, amendment 24. I'm not sure what your freedom of speech question is trying to prove, but we do have voting limitations. I can only vote in the state I'm registered to vote in and at the precinct I'm assigned. I do have to be 18 or older to vote so not everyone can legally vote. Anything else? Oh yeah, another limit is that many felons can't vote. I think felons should get their voting rights back after they have served their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I think it would be relatively easy to make the case to the courts that it is equal to a type of poll tax. You are still forcing people to pay for something in order to vote in a federal election. Maybe one of our lawyer friends can jump in here if I am way off base on that and give us their thoughts as to how they think that sort of argument would go down before the courts. I think a poll tax is more like charging a fee for admission to the polls, like how a movie theater charges a ticket price. I think it's a stretch to say a photo ID requirement is the same as charging a price for admission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 But you're not paying to vote. You're paying for an ID card which can be used in many other situations. I guess I'm just stumped on how anyone this day and age doesn't have an ID. It almost sounds to me that some who are upset are just playing politics or worried that illegals won't be able to vote. I'm actually in agreement with you over being surprised/stumped that people don't have IDs in this day and age, but it appears to be a problem for some people. I'm not in favor of anyone illegal voting but my bigger concern is any legal citizen being denied their right to vote. ---------- Post added July-9th-2012 at 03:24 PM ---------- I think a poll tax is more like charging a fee for admission to the polls, like how a movie theater charges a ticket price. I think it's a stretch to say a photo ID requirement is the same as charge a price for admission. If you have to go pay for an ID to vote, that is paying to have to vote. If you don't pay for the ID in order to vote, you don't get admission to the polls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Seriously people, read the constitution, amendment 24. I'm not sure what your freedom of speech question is trying to prove, but we do have voting limitations. I can only vote in the state I'm registered to vote in and at the precinct I'm assigned. I do have to be 18 or older to vote so not everyone can legally vote. Anything else? Hersh, think about this scenario. Without a photo ID, somebody who knows your name and address can walk into your precinct and say they are you, then vote for the candidate that you don't support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Its not a big deal. Candidly, here's what it is: Adults who do not possess the necessary identification are more likely to vote democrat. It the same for voter registration drives. Adults who are not registered to vote, once registered, are more likely to vote democrat. You don't see many republicans participating in voter registration efforts. Let's all stop pretending that we're stupid. This isn't about the right to vote. It's about getting the candidate elected who you want elected. Everyone has an angle, everyone pretends to be righteous. It's all BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hersh, think about this scenario. Without a photo ID, somebody who knows your name and address can walk into your precinct and say they are you, then vote for the candidate that you don't support. and their are laws against anyone doing that which include a felony charge and jail time and that person has to hope that nobody at the precinct recognizes the name the person committing fraud is using. As I said, I'm not against the concept of needing an ID or voter registration card when voting, I just feel the government needs to do everything in their power to provide all legal citizens with that voter ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/floridas-voter-purge-explained/2012/06/18/gJQAhvcNlV_blog.htmlHere is a good article on what is really happening with the Florida purge. Homeland Security refused to give the State their list of noncitizens, which the state COULD have used to cross check and flag on voter rolls. Instead, the State had to use a method relying on DMV records. It also shows that there were a total of 2700 people that were flagged. 2700........Not the tens of thousands the left wing screams about. And of those, 500 people responded to the inquiry with the proper documents, and were NOT purged from the lsit. 40 people were found to have been registered to vote illegally. The rest did not or have not responded, so if they show up to vote, they will have to prove they are legal. The other interesting fact in this article is that 178 of Voter Fraud have been referred to the Fla Dept of Law Enforcement since 2000. All in a state where a National Election was decided by 537 votes. We may be dealing with very small percentages. But sometimes elections are that close. That's exactly what the GOP (Grand Oligarch's Party) is banking on. Let's assume that the 178 cases of voter fraud you cited are all valid and all occurred during the most recent election cycle. That overstates the case but doing so helps to make my point. Now contrast those 178 cases with the disenfranchisement of probably several thousand Blacks, Latinos, etc. the great majority of whom would almost certainly vote against Mr. Etch a Sketch. I'm no lawyer but I'd imagine that in such cases where there's harm on two sides the law should go with the least harmful of the two options. The GOP's voter suppression laws flip that and harms more people than it helps. But hey it's OK as long as it's the other side's voters that get disenfranchised. The ends do justify the means after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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