[Poll] Should the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act be repealed along with Obamacare?

[sjinhan]

For the people that oppose the Obamacare and want to repeal it..

Would you also support repealing of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act?

EMTALA is the act that mandates that all hopitals regardless of insurance status, participating hospitals cannot deny urgent medical assistance. I am a true act is already a built in tax on the regular people who own health insurance as the hospitals pass on the costs to us.

I, for one, want two things to happen

1) If we are going to keep EMTALA then lets have something like Obamacare in which this tax burden is shared by as many people as possible and not just on the good people are currently holding health insurance.

2) If we are going to repeal Obamacare then lets go ahead and repeal EMTALA as well. If you don't want to government and tax money involved via Obamacare then we should get all of the tax money out of the system as possible. This is only fair for everyone that currently holds health insurance.

Whats your take on this?

Below is the quick summary

EMTALA's effect

Improved health services for uninsured

The most significant effect is that, regardless of insurance status, participating hospitals cannot deny urgent medical assistance. Currently EMTALA only requires that hospitals stabilize the emergency. According to some analyses of the U.S. health care safety net, EMTALA is an incomplete and strained program.[9][10]

Cost pressures on hospitals

According to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, 55% of U.S. emergency care now goes uncompensated.[11] When medical bills go unpaid, health care providers must either shift the costs onto those who can pay or go uncompensated. In the first decade of EMTALA, such cost-shifting amounted to a hidden tax levied by providers.[12] For example, it has been estimated that this cost shifting amounted to $455 per individual or $1,186 per family in California each year.[12]

However, because of the recent influence of managed care and other cost control initiatives by insurance companies, hospitals are less able to shift costs, and end up writing off more in uncompensated care. The amount of uncompensated care delivered by nonfederal community hospitals grew from $6.1 billion in 1983 to $40.7 billion in 2004, according to a 2004 report from the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured,[11] but it is unclear what percentage of this was emergency care and therefore attributable to EMTALA.

Financial pressures on hospitals in the 20 years since EMTALA's passage have caused them to consolidate and close facilities, contributing to emergency room overcrowding. According to the Institute of Medicine, between 1993 and 2003, emergency room visits in the U.S. grew by 26 percent, while in the same period, the number of emergency departments declined by 425.[13] Ambulances are frequently diverted from overcrowded emergency departments to other hospitals that may be farther away. In 2003, ambulances were diverted over a half a million times, not necessarily due to patients' inability to pay.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

[Kilmer17]

For the people that oppose the Obamacare and want to repeal it..

Would you also support repealing of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act?

EMTALA is the act that mandates that all hopitals regardless of insurance status, participating hospitals cannot deny urgent medical assistance. I am a true act is already a built in tax on the regular people who own health insurance as the hospitals pass on the costs to us.

I, for one, want two things to happen

1) If we are going to keep EMTALA then lets have something like Obamacare in which this tax burden is shared by as many people as possible and not just on the good people are currently holding health insurance.

2) If we are going to repeal Obamacare then lets go ahead and repeal EMTALA as well. If you don't want to government and tax money involved via Obamacare then we should get all of the tax money out of the system as possible. This is only fair for everyone that currently holds health insurance.

Whats your take on this?

Below is the quick summary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

Yes. For the reasons listed.

[Teller]

Yes, if we oppose Obamacare, we want people to die of heart attacks in ER waiting rooms, and have their babies on the floor. Of course.

[sjinhan]

Yes, if we oppose Obamacare, we want people to die of heart attacks in ER waiting rooms, and have their babies on the floor. Of course.

well i had the option of keeping the EMTALA. It is not like I am making that judgement on people who are opposing the Obamacare.

I am supporter of some type of universal health care in which everyone pays into the system.

However, I am also supporter of repealing the EMTALA if Obamacare if repealed. I am tired of people freeloading on the current system. It might be politically incorrect (and harsh) to say but people have right to freedom and life but that does not mean they are entitled to healthcare.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Yes, if we oppose Obamacare, we want people to die of heart attacks in ER waiting rooms, and have their babies on the floor. Of course.

Ah, the utopia of compassionate conservatism.

[DjTj]

Yes. For the reasons listed.

Serious conservative answer?

Yes, if we oppose Obamacare, we want people to die of heart attacks in ER waiting rooms, and have their babies on the floor. Of course.

Or sarcastic conservative answer?

[Teller]

Serious conservative answer?Or sarcastic conservative answer?

The latter, of course. Apologies for the missing smiley.

[ncr2h]

Absolutely should be repealed. If the doctor wishes to provide pro-bono charity to the customer, that should be his or her option, not his or her duty under penalty of law. Unfortunately we live in a world where our government is the largest charity on the planet, and charitable contributions are mandatory. I don't think both will ever be repealed.

[Teller]

Is it not possible to pay for medical services without having insurance? Or am I missing something? Did the SCOTUS outlaw cash too?

[mistertim]

Is it not possible to pay for medical services without having insurance? Or am I missing something? Did the SCOTUS outlaw cash too?

It absolutely is possible to pay for medical services out of pocket with cash. It's just extremely unlikely you'll be able to afford it unless you're damn wealthy or just flat out rich as hell. Have you seen how much some of the simplest stuff costs? Break your arm and you're easily talking $2,500 plus...and that's if it is a simple, clean break. Need surgery for something? Tens of thousands. Long term serious illness? Might as well just forget about it unless you also wipe your ass with $100 bills when using the toilet.

[Bliz]

Is it not possible to pay for medical services without having insurance? Or am I missing something? Did the SCOTUS outlaw cash too?

Should you have to post a bond proving that you have the cash to back it up? So they know what services you can afford and what you can't?

An appendectomy, for example, is a very simple and routine surgery. The average cost is $28,000. THat's a lot of cash to have on hand.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-04-23/extreme-hospital-bills-appendix/54490452/1 (for support of $28k number)

My answer to the OP is no, we should not repeal the EMTALA. We're not savages. It is unacceptable to me, as I believe it should be for anyone with a shred of human decency, that h_h should die because he only had the bond up to $30k, and to fix him up after this horrific car crash is going to cost $50k. We don't let citizens bleed out when we can easily save their lives just because they don't have the money. We're better than that. And some things are more important than money. Repeal would be, at best, immoral.

Which is why I support a mandate. The govt is there as a backstop if you choose, but you have to pay a tax/penalty to use it. Otherwise get insurance, and don't pay the tax/penalty. Call me crazy, but I generally prefer it when citizens don't have to needlessly die.

It is often said that 20-somethings are idiots who wrongly think they are invincible. Let's not go too far in proving the point.

[SkinsHokieFan]

And to think, boobs only cost 6,000 all in now

[Enter Apotheosis]

Is it not possible to pay for medical services without having insurance? Or am I missing something? Did the SCOTUS outlaw cash too?

Why do you think EMTALA exists at all? Most people who aren't insured either can't or won't pay their hospital bills, hence why a hospital might try to refuse care to begin with.

[bcl05]

What is the alternative to EMTALA? If you don't have insurance or aren't able to pay up front for HC, you aren't going to get it? How will ability to pay be assessed in an acute situation (i.e. trauma)? Historically (pre-EMTALA), people would occasionally be turned away from ERs simply because they seemed unlikely to be able to pay - often with significant racial and other disparities being manifest.

I'm a physician, and I think EMTALA is a big financial burden but also the only ethical way to practice medicine. Its not a great solution, but until everyone has health care coverage, I think its the only one.

[Kilmer17]

And to think, boobs only cost 6,000 all in now

You serious Clark?

---------- Post added June-29th-2012 at 04:20 PM ----------

Why do you think EMTALA exists at all? Most people who aren't insured either can't or won't pay their hospital bills, hence why a hospital might try to refuse care to begin with.

So should all hospitals be not for profit entities?

[Bliz]

Follow up question for anyone who supports repeal of EMTALA, what about kids?

Say it's not h_h, but a 16 year old kid who is busted up in the accident? Do we let her die because her parents don't have insurance?

What if she's 4?

(and not to invite a classic twa threadjack, but) What if it's a 2-week old baby?

[Teller]

Oh my bad.

Clearly I live near the only hospital on planet earth that will arrange payment plans.

Thank God for my luck.

[SkinsHokieFan]

You serious Clark?

?

Yup, surgery, the actual implants and everything from pretty damn good plastic suergons in the DC area

[mistertim]

Oh my bad.

Clearly I live near the only hospital on planet earth that will arrange payment plans.

Thank God for my luck.

Do they offer 5 or 6 year payment plans? Because if you even need the most routine of surgeries you're essentially working out the payment plan for a pretty decent brand new car.

[Teller]

Do they offer 5 or 6 year payment plans? Because if you even need the most routine of surgeries you're essentially working out the payment plan for a pretty decent brand new car.

They do. They won't tell you that up front, but they do.

[Bliz]

Oh my bad.

Clearly I live near the only hospital on planet earth that will arrange payment plans.

Thank God for my luck.

My favorite thing about sarcastic responses is that they never ever get old

:pfft:

Payment plan isn't worth the paper it's written on for some people. You can get a $10 million payment plan from a homeless guy on the street. Good luck collecting.

So that's a no, no one should have to have a bond? Hospital should just assume everyone can and will pay them back, sooner or later, no matter how big the bill?

[mistertim]

My favorite thing about sarcastic responses is that they never ever get old

:pfft:

Payment plan isn't worth the paper it's written on for some people. You can get a $10 million payment plan from a homeless guy on the street. Good luck collecting.

So that's a no, no one should have to have a bond? Hospital should just assume everyone can and will pay them back, sooner or later, no matter how big the bill?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBl1zR4oXys

[Teller]

My favorite thing about sarcastic responses is that they never ever get old

:pfft:

OK, good, cause there's another one coming....

So that's a no, no one should have to have a bond? Hospital should just assume everyone can and will pay them back, sooner or later, no matter how big the bill?

I thought that's what the fine/tax/fine/tax/fine/tax was for.

[Enter Apotheosis]

So should all hospitals be not for profit entities?

I wouldn't say that.

Oh my bad.

Clearly I live near the only hospital on planet earth that will arrange payment plans.

Thank God for my luck.

You're still missing the point. Even if you fully intend to do everything in your power to pay your debt to the hospital, the hospital could still determine that you're too much of a risk and decline treatment. You'd never even have a chance.

The hospital you live near may never do this and most hospitals may never do this but if you give hospitals the option to refuse emergency treatment then it will happen to an honest person somewhere sooner than later.

[Bliz]

OK, good, cause there's another one coming....

I thought that's what the fine/tax/fine/tax/fine/tax was for.

I'm talking about in your hypothetical where we don't have a fine/tax because it's possible to pay for medical services without having insurance. If there's no mandate and you choose not to have insurance, should you have to provide some proof of what you are able to pay for so the hospital knows whether to save your life or not?