Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[Hersh]

If the President never wanted Single Payer, which is pretty clear that he did not, how is it a concession to say that there will be no Single Payer option?

 

Secondly, Single Payer means that the Government pays for Healthcare.  That means taxes.  In order to have that pass, you would need that to come from the House.  The House was never going to pass that so how is that a concession?

 

You seem to be confusing single payer and public option...

 

What Duckus said.

[Larry]

They [Republicans] certainly talk about "purchasing across state lines" a lot.   Like it was a magic bullet.  

 

"Dump all of the ACA.  All we need is to be able to purchase across state lines, and the sky will rain down free healthcare."

Don't forget "and make health insurance companies immune from being punished, if you convict them of breaking contracts or laws"

They all seem to agree on that one, too.

[Larry]

No, it's the Dems' fault. The party basically ended up negotiating with itself in the end and somehow lost. Which is a very modern Dem thing to do.

 

Democrats used to be really good at the politics part of politics. That hasn't been the case in a long time.

I am not a member of any organized political party. I, sir, am a Democrat.

- Will Rogers.

[Predicto]

 

The problem, as I see it, is that many on the left just think people are too stupid to know the difference between what is going on and what the left wants us to believe.   The President never had single payer.   He could never get it done.   He didn't give up anything or negotiate for anything.   The Right never wanted any of this so to offer up that concession was really to offer nothing to the Right at all.  

 

That's just not the truth.

 

 

His base wanted it.   The Dems gave it up as part of negotiations - that's called trying to reach the middle.   They would have settled for the public option.  the Dems gave that up too - trying to get GOP votes.   Grassley negotiated for the GOP and told them that if they kept out the public option, the GOP would get on board.  So they took it out and the GOP still didn't get on board.  And a full year later, they started spreading the talking point about "ramming the bill through in the dead of night."    And the suckers fall for it.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Predicto

[ABQCOWBOY]

His base wanted it.   The Dems gave it up as part of negotiations - that's called trying to reach the middle.   They would have settled for the public option.  the Dems gave that up too - trying to get GOP votes.   Grassley negotiated for the GOP and told them that if they kept out the public option, the GOP would get on board.  So they took it out and the GOP still didn't get on board.  And a full year later, they started spreading the talking point about "ramming the bill through in the dead of night."    And the suckers fall for it.

 

Not all of his Base wanted it.  I've posted that President Obama, prior to ever being elected, said that he did not support Single Payer.  It's not as if Single Payer had the support of the entire Left. 

[Hersh]

Not all of his Base wanted it.  I've posted that President Obama, prior to ever being elected, said that he did not support Single Payer.  It's not as if Single Payer had the support of the entire Left. 

 

Obama talked about having a public option (which is dramatically different from single payer) and he gave that up dring the negotiation. What part of that don't you understand?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Obama talked about having a public option (which is dramatically different from single payer) and he gave that up dring the negotiation. What part of that don't you understand?

 

And how was he going to pass Single Payer?  

 

The negotiation was with his own party.  If he made a concession, which I don't believe he ever did based on his own statements and writings, it was with his own Party.  It was not with the GOP.

[Larry]

Not all of his Base wanted it.

Well, that settles it, then.

If not 100% of all Democrats demanded it, then it's not a concession.

Why, I bet that, if the Dems were to, right now, announce that they will unanimously filibuster every bill proposed in the New Senate, unless the bill includes a national gun registry, and the Republicans give in, and introduce the bill, then that wouldn;t be a Republican concession. Because after all, not 100% of Republicans oppose gun registration.

After all, that's a rule, somewhere. If a single person on "your side" doesn't want something, then giving it up isn't a concession.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Obama talked about having a public option (which is dramatically different from single payer) and he gave that up dring the negotiation. What part of that don't you understand?

 

He's just playing games now.

[Predicto]

And how was he going to pass Single Payer?  

 

The negotiation was with his own party.  If he made a concession, which I don't believe he ever did based on his own statements and writings, it was with his own Party.  It was not with the GOP.

 

Oh for chrissake - we are talking about the Public Option, not single payor.  Single payor got dropped early, tghe public option got dropped later.  Obama and the Democrats in Congress both wanted the public option but it was removed during 9 months of negotiations between Max Baucus and two other Democratic Senators and Chuck Grassley and two other Republicans (the gang of 6), trying to reach a compromise bill.    Are you caught up now?

He's just playing games now.

 

I don't think he is playing games.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh for chrissake - we are talking about the Public Option, not single payor.  Single payor got dropped early, tghe public option got dropped later.  Obama and the Democrats in Congress both wanted the public option but it was removed during 9 months of negotiations between Max Baucus and two other Democratic Senators and Chuck Grassley and two other Republicans (the gang of 6), trying to reach a compromise bill.    Are you caught up now?

 

I am.  Looks like to me, the latest score Reads as follows:

 

Public Approval of Health Care Law

 

Favor 38.6%    Against 51.1%

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

 

Not for me to tell you your buisness put perhaps you might consider catching up to that.

Edited November 13, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY

[Duckus]

I am.  Looks like to me, the latest score Reads as follows:

 

Public Approval of Health Care Law

 

Favor 38.6%    Against 51.1%

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

 

Not for me to tell you your buisness put perhaps you might consider catching up to that.

 

You most have graduated top of your class years at the TWA School of Debate. You got to dodge technique down pat. Soon you are going to stop capitalizing the first word of any sentence. Then your training shall be complete. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by Duckus

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I am.  Looks like to me, the latest score Reads as follows:

 

Public Approval of Health Care Law

 

Favor 38.6%    Against 51.1%

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

 

Not for me to tell you your buisness put perhaps you might consider catching up to that.

 

First off, you completely changed the subject.

 

Second, there are a lot of polls that say repeal is unwanted now:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/09/09/even-in-romney-states-more-want-to-keep-obamacare-than-repeal-it/

 

The poll’s topline shows that a total of 57 percent of voters support Obamacare (43 percent) or don’t support it but want to let it go ahead and see how it works (just under 15 percent). Meanwhile, only 39 percent want to repeal the law. That’s 57-39 for keeping versus repealing the law.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Tulane Skins Fan

[ABQCOWBOY]

First off, you completely changed the subject.

 

Second, there are a lot of polls that say repeal is unwanted now:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/09/09/even-in-romney-states-more-want-to-keep-obamacare-than-repeal-it/

 

The poll’s topline shows that a total of 57 percent of voters support Obamacare (43 percent) or don’t support it but want to let it go ahead and see how it works (just under 15 percent). Meanwhile, only 39 percent want to repeal the law. That’s 57-39 for keeping versus repealing the law.

 

 

And this article clearly states that the large majority don't like the bill.   I don't know about you but my top notch TWA School of Debate Edgamacation suggest to me that the American People don't like it.  They simply believe they are stuck with it.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

And this article clearly states that the large majority don't like the bill.   I don't know about you but my top notch TWA School of Debate Edgamacation suggest to me that the American People don't like it.  They simply believe they are stuck with it.

 

That isn't very top notch.  57% of people don't want it repealed.  

[ABQCOWBOY]

That isn't very top notch.  57% of people don't want it repealed.  

 

And 51% don't like it.  

 

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/13/pelosi_i_dont_know_who_gruber_is_flashback_pelosi_cites_grubers_analysis_in_2009.html

[twa]

I'm in that 6%......I want to see the Dems suffer

 

no easy way out for those idiots.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm in that 6%......I want to see the Dems suffer

 

no easy way out for those idiots.

 

 

What's ironic is that an Advocacy Group that supports Single Payer is bringing suit in SCOTUS to overturn the bill.

 

 

“Congress could have taken seriously evidence presented by these single payer medical doctors that a single-payer system is the only way to both control costs and cover everyone,” Mokhiber said. “Instead, Senator Max Baucus (D-Mont.), chair of the Senate Finance Committee which drafted the law that became the ACA, had two of those doctors – Dr. Margaret Flowers and Dr. Carol Paris – arrested and thrown in jail. Those doctors are now two of the 50 who have signed onto this brief challenging the constitutionality of the ACA.”

 

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2012/february/50-doctors-for-single-payer-urge-supreme-court-to-strike-down-individual-mandate

 

I'm sure that this too will eventually be found the fault of the GOP.

[Larry]

And 51% don't like it.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/13/pelosi_i_dont_know_who_gruber_is_flashback_pelosi_cites_grubers_analysis_in_2009.html

And a large percentage of them don't like it, because they think it didn't go far enough.

You know. The lefties who didn't get what they wanted. (But who didn't compromise. Not one little bit. In your world).

[ABQCOWBOY]

And a large percentage of them don't like it, because they think it didn't go far enough.

You know. The lefties who didn't get what they wanted. (But who didn't compromise. Not one little bit. In your world).

 

This may be true Larry, I don't know.  However, I have been told by more then one poster on this board that what you suggest can not possibly be true.   I've been told that these numbers follow strict party lines.  

 

Honestly Larry, I don't doubt that there are those who believe that this did not go far enough.  That's not a stretch.  However, Single Payer was never going to become a reality because it would have never passed.   That would mean a Tax and that was a death pill for this Bill.  The only way it could be done, without the support of the Right is to do what they did. 

 

I mean, I get it.  I don't agree with it but I understand why it was done the way it was done.   However, to say that it was a compromise is, IMO, untrue.  There was no compromise.  The GOP was dead set against this Bill and the Democrats were going to make it happen, no matter what.  This business of compromise on Single Payer is just whistling in the wind.   There was no compromise on that.  It was impossible to get passed as Single Payer. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY

[mcsluggo]

and 37% of people want to shave a monkey's butt, cover it in whipped cream,  and throw buttered english muffins at it

[Larry]

This may be true Larry, I don't know. However, I have been told by more then one poster on this board that what you suggest can not possibly be true. I've been told that these numbers follow strict party lines.

Could you quote me the person who claimed that not one single Democrat dislikes the law?

I mean, someone other than a Republican spinmeister?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And how was he going to pass Single Payer?  

 

 

Before this goes on forever, you need to prove you know the difference between single payer and public option. Explain the difference sir. Show your work.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Could you quote me the person who claimed that not one single Democrat dislikes the law?

I mean, someone other than a Republican spinmeister?

 

No, I can't quote you what you ask for because that's not what I said.  What I said was that I have been told that the numbers follow party lines.   Not that there is not 1 single person.  Are you suggesting that only 1 person feels as if the Bill did not go far enough?

 

Rhetorical, I know that this is not what you are suggesting.   See what I'm trying to say?   Go back and read this thread and you will find those that suggest it's along party lines.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Could you quote me the person who claimed that not one single Democrat dislikes the law?

I mean, someone other than a Republican spinmeister?

 

I'm a Democrat and I'm displeased with the law because it does not have a public option in it.