Tulane Skins Fan Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I am pretty sure the mantra on this board was the Obama reelection was a referendum on the ACA. That was prior to the election and from the right wingers. The "mantra" on the board from the left was that Romney was selling a bill of goods that didn't add up and everyone could see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Or better yet, I can just listen to you and you'll try and give me one. Six to one, half dozen to the other I suppose. OK, this is pretty easy to defend. Show me the Bill or give me the number of the Bill you claim was voted on approved under ACA by the House with Single Payer and we can all read it. Ah, and now we're back to "I demend that you prove that a bill I bade up was actually passed by the House". What are you going to do when I point out, a second time, that I've never claimed that it was? Announce that the fact that no such bill passed, proves that no such bill ever existed, and therefore proves that nobody ever wanted it in the first place, a second time? Again, show me the Bill associated with the ACA with Single Payer that the House submitted and passed. I am aware that there were multiple Bills voted on and passed by the House that never saw the light of day in the Senate but none of them, that I am aware of, with Single Payer. Then you're aware of another thing that you just pulled out of your Philly. Tell ya what. How about you please lay out oll of the "facts" that you're "aware of", as to the procedure that was used, to pass the ACA through Congress. That ought to be good for days of laughter. If anything, this is more damning to the thought that you can actually use the CBO as an effective means of passing legislature. You could start by explaining how you think the CBO passed "legislature". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 That was prior to the election and from the right wingers. The "mantra" on the board from the left was that Romney was selling a bill of goods that didn't add up and everyone could see it. I am specifically referring to ES posters. (Cue Larry to say prove it) <sigh> And they weren't the right wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Ah, and now we're back to "I demend that you prove that a bill I bade up was actually passed by the House". What are you going to do when I point out, a second time, that I've never claimed that it was? Announce that the fact that no such bill passed, proves that no such bill ever existed, and therefore proves that nobody ever wanted it in the first place, a second time? Then you're aware of another thing that you just pulled out of your Philly. Tell ya what. How about you please lay out oll of the "facts" that you're "aware of", as to the procedure that was used, to pass the ACA through Congress. That ought to be good for days of laughter. You could start by explaining how you think the CBO passed "legislature". I don't demand that you do anything. It's up to you if you choose to do so. The "CBO" was used as a tool to convince the voter base that the ACA was a benefit to the public. Without popular support of the Bill, it would not have moved forward. The President and the Democratic Party needed popular support, in order to get this done. Don't take my word for it. Just listen to Gruber's statements on the subject. Edited November 14, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Just like you quoting the DailyKos, right??? By the way, here are some facts that the HuffPost and MSNBC won't let you know: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/11/13/3-things-white-house-doesnt-want-to-know-about-obamacare-plus-3-things-coming/ 3 things White House doesn't want you to know about ObamaCare, plus 3 things coming in 2015 you aren’t going to like 1. HUGE DEFICITS AND NEW TAXES.According to the Congressional Budget Office, the latest projections for the net cost of ObamaCare over the next ten years are just over $1.4 trillion. Whereas President Obama promised in 2009 that it would cost less than $1 trillion over ten years. Well, now, that's a shock. Fox News revealing the stunning, shocking news ("that the White House doesn't want you to know") that the amount Obamacare is projected to cost, from 14-23, isn't the same as what it was projected to cost, from 09-18. (A period in which the law wasn't even to be in effect, for part of.) I am pretty sure the mantra on this board was the Obama reelection was a referendum on the ACA. That's certainly the mantra I remember hearing. Both on this board and elsewhere. Edit: And I'm pretty sure I've heard it multiple times, since then. "America could have repealed Obamacare by electing more Republicans in '12, and they didn't, therefore Obamacare has been affirmed by The People". Edited November 14, 2014 by Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) David AxelrodVerified account @davidaxelrod As one who worked hard to make ACA and its benefits clear, let me say: if you looked up "stupid" in dictionary, you'd find Gruber's picture. Interestingly enough, Gruber has made just under 6 Million Dollars, acting in an advisory capacity to the Government. How stupid could he be? Edited November 17, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Might be easier for me to figure out what your point is, if you'd actually state one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Might be easier for me to figure out what your point is, if you'd actually state one. I think the point is pretty simple. If he's so stupid, why has the Government paid him 5.9 Million to work on various projects concerning the ACA? Edited November 17, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think the point is pretty simple. If he's so stupid, why has the Government paid him 5.9 Million to work on various projects concerning the ACA? Actually, that's "governments", and it's apparently for several things, of which the ACA is one of them. But let's pretend that it's true, anyway. Does your entire point really consist of claiming that something cannot be stupid, because the government paid for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Actually, that's "governments", and it's apparently for several things, of which the ACA is one of them. But let's pretend that it's true, anyway. Does your entire point really consist of claiming that something cannot be stupid, because the government paid for it? No, I believe it's all related to the ACA. Different agencies and or State and Local Government, with regards to the ACA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 But let's pretend that it's true, anyway. Does your entire point really consist of claiming that something cannot be stupid, because the government paid for it? I don't think we have to pretend. My entire point is that it's stupid for Axelrod to spin this as if Gruber is stupid. Gruber may be a pompous jackass but he's certainly not stupid. What's stupid is how this administration is trying to spin his comments. Gruber is telling the truth about his role in the ACA. Scapegoating him is only going to make things worse for the entire situation IMO. What's the upside here? Saying you paid millions of dollars to a guy who is stupid, to basically write the financials on what is supposed to be President Obama's signature accomplishment, which effects one 5th of our entire economy? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I don't think we have to pretend. My entire point is that it's stupid for Axelrod to spin this as if Gruber is stupid. Gruber may be a pompous jackass but he's certainly not stupid. What's stupid is how this administration is trying to spin his comments. Gruber is telling the truth about his role in the ACA. Scapegoating him is only going to make things worse for the entire situation IMO. What's the upside here? Saying you paid millions of dollars to a guy who is stupid, to basically write the financials on what is supposed to be President Obama's signature accomplishment, which effects one 5th of our entire economy? Really? I'll hear you out that his comments are "true." Explain to me how Obamacare was sold on lies? Give me your argument. I will grant you that it turned out to be untrue that "if you like your insurance you can keep it." You, I assume, will admit Obama took steps to try to fix that when it became apparent that wasn't true. But, like I said, explain to me what the lies were that Obama told to get Obamcare passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) I'll hear you out that his comments are "true." Explain to me how Obamacare was sold on lies? Give me your argument. I will grant you that it turned out to be untrue that "if you like your insurance you can keep it." You, I assume, will admit Obama took steps to try to fix that when it became apparent that wasn't true. But, like I said, explain to me what the lies were that Obama told to get Obamcare passed. I never said it was sold on lies. Is that what you think? I don't really need you to hear me out. The comments Gruber made, all seven interviews, are out there for anybody to see. It is Gruber who says that the American people were lied to. Actually, a more accurate statement might be that Americans were to stupid to understand that they were being lied to. Edited November 17, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I never said it was sold on lies. Is that what you think? I don't really need you to hear me out. The comments Gruber made, all seven interviews, are out there for anybody to see. It is Gruber who says that the American people were lied to. Actually, a more accurate statement might be that Americans were to stupid to understand that they were being lied to. welll, that's what gruber said, isn't it? that obamcare was sold on lies. So, you don't think it was...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) welll, that's what gruber said, isn't it? that obamcare was sold on lies. So, you don't think it was...??? I think the numbers were all fiction but I've thought that from day one and I've been pretty consistent on that for a long time I think. I think, as you say, the whole keep your plan/Dr. thing was all BS and the Administration new it. I think the whole tax issue was a lie. I mean, the Supreme Court basically said it was so yeah, that was not the truth. There are things that were not true but to be honest, the biggest "lie" was to allow so many Americans to believe that Healthcare was free. It's not. Even if you are one of the people who are not paying for it, it's still not free. Edited November 17, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think the numbers were all fiction but I've thought that from day one and I've been pretty consistent on that for a long time I think. I think, as you say, the whole keep your plan/Dr. thing was all BS and the Administration new it. I think the whole tax issue was a lie. I mean, the Supreme Court basically said it was so yeah, that was not the truth. There are things that were not true but to be honest, the biggest "lie" was to allow so many Americans to believe that Healthcare was free. It's not. Even if you are one of the people who are not paying for it, it's still not free. Obama promised that healthcare would be free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Obama promised that healthcare would be free? He allowed people to believe it, yes. I do believe the Administration was complicit on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 He allowed people to believe it, yes. I do believe the Administration was complicit on that. Yea, ok.. this is nonsense then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 . . . the biggest "lie" was to allow so many Americans to believe that Healthcare was free. Seriously admiring the chutzpah it must take, to make a post claiming Obama lied, in which you claim that 1) he said health care was free 2) many Americans believed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Yea, ok.. this is nonsense then. That is your opinion. What I said earlier is mine. Mine is no more nonsense then yours. What is not nonsense is what Gruber has said. Seriously admiring the chutzpah it must take, to make a post claiming Obama lied, in which you claim that 1) he said health care was free 2) many Americans believed it. He did make that statement and even posted it to the Website. It was changed early in 2013 but whatever. I notice that you would rather change the subject and try to focus on what my opinions are then address Gruber and the administration. My opinions are my own and I already know that most are not going to share them, regardless of if they are true or not. I'm not really asking anybody to. The point of my posts were the Stupidity being shown on the part of the Administration over Gruber. Edited November 17, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) He did make that statement and even posted it to the Website. 1) Please point me to where "he" said that Obama said health care was free. 1a) (And, if you can do that, could you also point me to where Obama actually said it? Or are you saying that your point is "Look what 'He' said that isn't true"?) 2) And then please point me to where "so many Americans" believed that "health care was free". Or do you intend to recite "My opinions are my own (and therefore the fact that they're off the wall insane doesn't matter)", again? Edited November 18, 2014 by Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Obama promised that healthcare would be free? Haven't you heard? Obama lies about everything. Meanwhile, conservative pundits, radio hosts and website operators tell the stone cold truth about everything. When you hear it blasting out of your AM radio, sandwiched between ads for boner pills and buying gold, you just know it's the truth because you can hear the great and sincere love of America and it's people in that broadcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Haven't you heard? Obama lies about everything. Meanwhile, conservative pundits, radio hosts and website operators tell the stone cold truth about everything. When you hear it blasting out of your AM radio, sandwiched between ads for boner pills and buying gold, you just know it's the truth because you can hear the great and sincere love of America and it's people in that broadcast. Yawn. Same old boring nonsense. Got any thoughts on Obamacare? The Wizards thread is back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Yawn. Same old boring nonsense. Got any thoughts on Obamacare? The Wizards thread is back. Dude put me on ignore. I'll do the same. Have a biased day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) 1) Please point me to where "he" said that Obama said health care was free. 1a) (And, if you can do that, could you also point me to where Obama actually said it? Or are you saying that your point is "Look what 'He' said that isn't true"?) 2) And then please point me to where "so many Americans" believed that "health care was free". Or do you intend to recite "My opinions are my own (and therefore the fact that they're off the wall insane doesn't matter)", again? I already said, it was posted on the ACA healthcare site. Was changed in early 2013. Look Larry, we all know that you don't agree with me. That's fine, you don't have to agree with me. The point is that what Gruber is saying is true. You don't seem to want to talk about that. You are trying to turn the discussion towards what I think. Well, we've talked about that a lot, over the years. Nobody really cares what I think. People care about what Gruber has said. Edited November 18, 2014 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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